The world's population will hit 7 billion --about three weeks from now:

[LeftinOH]

And lots of other cool real-time stats here
http://www.worldometers.info/

[Raksha]

1. Not unexpected - but still pretty scary. n/t

[Ship of Fools]

2. Critical mass ... Too many of us rats in the cage -- the root of ALL of our problems.

[FarCenter]

4. With a divisor of 7,000,000,000, its hard to make GDP/capita go up

Unless you strip the planet to bare rock.

[stuntcat]

27. "root of ALL of our problems"

This fact could not be any more obvious or clear.

It blows my mind and breaks my heart that anyone will make innocent children to give the rest of this century to. It's heartbreaking watching what's happening, but I'm glad I'll be here just 40 more years.
My neighbors' two babies will be here 40 years past me. But by the time they're my age worrying about polar bears & coral reefs will just be silly old folks' stuff.

[LeftofObama]

3. That's a pretty cool site!

Thanks for posting it.

[LWolf]

5. I'd like to see that meter start running backwards.

While I wouldn't live long enough to see it, I'd like the meter to run backwards, due to FEWER BIRTHS, not violence or neglect, until there were no more billions, no more hundreds or tens of millions...until millions were in single digits.

[MrDiaz]

13. If over population

is a bad thing then why do we want free Healthcare and have people live longer, why do we want wars to stop? If over population is a problem would it not be conceivable to have no healthcare and continue always being at war?

[LWolf]

17. It might be conceivable for those who are

morally and ethically bankrupt; those who don't have the capacity for empathy. In other words, for the psychopath, the sociopath, the human with an anti-social personality disorder.

I can't speak for "we;" only for myself.

I want wars to top because I believe that violence doesn't solve problems, but causes deep, lasting harm.

I want free health care because I believe in equal rights; I don't believe that those who have $$ to pay deserve better access and better care than those who don't.

I don't propose that we solve one problem by causing harm in other ways.

[MrDiaz]

23. okay so you

want depopulation, but you want to help all those alive, right? Don't get me wrong I agree with everything you said in your response, however I do not agree at all with your first post. I do not understand how you can have one without the other.

[octothorpe]

32. In an ideal world, it would be by a couple having only one or no children....

That's how it would work. Of course that will never happen in the real world. Well, at least not without resorting to forced sterilizations and abortions. I'm fairly certain that wouldn't be a very popular idea with most of us.

[LWolf]

51. That's the real problem.

Expecting humanity to make conscious choices to be part of the solution instead of the problem.

I don't advocate force; that always does more harm than good.

I WOULD get behind incentives. For example, I think U.S. taxes should be carbon-based. Generous deductions, for life, for those who produce no biological children; a smaller deduction for those that produce 1 biological child; no deductions for those who produce 2 biological children; a carbon tax, for life, for every biological child beyond 2.

[LWolf]

50. You don't understand how you can decrease population over time

by lowering the birth rate?

It's math. If fewer people are born than die of natural causes (and other, man-made causes; I'd like those to go away, but certainly not expecting them to,) then the population decreases.

I think it would take a conscious choice on the part of collective humanity.

[Bake]

52. Because it's the HUMAN .. and HUMANE thing to do. It's morally right.

What we need is a big decline in the birth rate.

Bake

[MadHound]

6. Over population is the root of a lot of our problems,

Too many people, too few resources.

[EdMaven]

7. ``If they'd rather die,'' said Scrooge, ``they'd better do it, and decrease the surplus population."

Population of London when Dickens died 3,000,000

Population of London today: 7,172,036


The ruling class always says people are poor because there's too many of them, from time immemorial. They always say there's not enough to go around, when they are the designers of the system that accumulates resources to themselves.

Truth is if there were more equality there would be fewer people and better use and conservation of resources. Some of the biggest free-for-alls re resources occurred when world population was a fraction of what it is today.

The majority of countries not at or below zpg = poor african countries. World fertility rate = 2.5 children per woman.

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&source=hp&q=global%20fertility%20rate&pbx=1&oq=&aq=&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=f23689a26f36edf4&biw=957&bih=585&pf=p&pdl=500

[FiveGoodMen]

9. There really is a limit to how much food the earth can produce

and how much waste it can reprocess.

The fact that we've made it this far is no proof that we can just keep going.

It's rather like being on an auto trip where there's a long way between gas stations: One passenger keeps warning that the car will run out of gas (based on calculations) while the others say, "You idiot. Of course we won't run out of gas; we haven't so far, have we?"

[EdMaven]

10. Certainly there is. But we aren't at it, world fertility has been declining for years & is nearly

at replacement rate, and over-population is not the root cause of resource problems or poverty.

[FiveGoodMen]

16. And we shouldn't try to reach it.

No, poverty is caused by greedy people taking everything from everyone without any opposition.

But even that will get worse as there's less and less to go around.

[EdMaven]

18. i didn't suggest we should. i suggested that the focus on overpopulation as the

root cause of all ills is misguided & counter-productive.

the ruling class has been putting out that propaganda for centuries & look where we are.

[FiveGoodMen]

20. The fish are overfished, the Amazon is being eradicated, oil is running out

all because too many of us are using it all up.

It damn sure is because there are too many people!

And that's NOT from the ruling class.

But maybe your talking point is.

[EdMaven]

22. it is indeed from the ruling class. think about it.

here's some food for thought:

According to new research from Moody’s Analytics, the top 5% of Americans by income account for 37% of all consumer outlays. Outlays include consumer spending, interest payments on installment debt and transfer payments.

By contrast, the bottom 80% by income account for 39.5% of all consumer outlays.

http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/08/05/us-economy-is-in...


not to mention that it's the ruling class that designs the (inefficient, wasteful, inequitable) system, foments the wars, & does the resource grabs, in the interest of their profit & power.

by "designs the system" i mean things like manufacturing pieces & parts in various countries & shipping them all over the globe -- growing peaches in Chile & shipping them to the us, etc.

this is not done because it needs to be, it's done because finance capital finds it more profitable.

[RC]

36. There sure a lot of people on this thread that think because we haven't run out yet, we

never will.

We are past the tipping point and the counter balance is the oil, coal and other natural resources we are running out of.
Starvation will be our fate when the oil runs out.

[AngryAmish]

12. For most of human history China has been the wealthiest and most advanced nation on Earth

WHy? A host of cultural reasons but also there are a lot of Chinese folks. Large populations do things and one of them tends to be create technology.


I have been hearing these warnings since I was a kid. I'm 42 now. The global standard of living (mean, median and mode) has gone up - constantly- all these years.

Could I be wrong? Sure. It is a fault of our brains that we take personal lessons as universal as well as think things will always be the same.

But I think we are doing ok. Without the forced sterilizations and genocide that the population bomb folks end up advocating.

[MadHound]

19. Do you know what a J curve is when it comes to population growth?

Do you know what the result of such a J curve is? Do you realize that human population is now at the top end of a J curve? You do the math.

[AngryAmish]

26. Yes. Yes. It is not.

You are making extraordinary claims and advocating (I think) extraordinary measures. Thus the standard of proof requires you make damn well prove that we are about to go extinct. Such a case is not made thus your points are rejected.

[MadHound]

31. I'm not making extraordinary claims at all

It is basic population science, whether you're dealing with a population of rabbits or a population of humans. When any population gets to the top of a J curve, and yes, we are at that top end <> where a given population outstrips its resources and collapses, catastrophically. This has been shown to be the case time and again. Nor does such a collapse result in total extinction, though it could. But any catastrophic population drop will mean that we'll be back in the dark ages.

And please, show me where I'm advocating "extraordinary measures". You think wrong.

[FiveGoodMen]

8. Just too damned many people.

Hey world: birth control works!

[yawnmaster]

11. The more the merrier. It will all work out in the end. eom

[MrDiaz]

14. you know

I remember wathcing a movie, I have no idea what the movie is called but the main character is Clive Owen. The movie was basically about a time where instead of recognizing the oldest alive we were recognizing the youngest which was 16 or 17 I think. This world was the result of more and more people using birth control, and people who just didn't want to have children, and then the natural process of evolution took place, and figured that there was a reason not to reproduce, so we eventually evolved and were not able to reproduce any more. It was a real weird movie lol, but this thread and responses just had me thinking about it.

[FiveGoodMen]

21. Children of Men

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0206634/

[MrDiaz]

45. there you go

Interesting movie, lol i was flipping channels one day and it got me lol

[salinen]

15. Not if I can help it

I'm gonna get me a Sasquatch.

[krispos42]

24. And every single one of them will be unemployed.

John McCain sez so, so it must be true

[Warren DeMontague]

25. For the people concerned with the so-called "population problem", take it up with this guy:

Places with high standards of living, personal autonomy, and access to contraception and reproductive services tend to limit their birth rates ON THEIR OWN.

[Mimosa]

29. Not really.

The highest birth rates tend to be in non-catholic countries.

Catholics in most Catholic dominated countries have LONG ignored Church doctrine and used birth control.

The most fecund populations on Earth are in the middle east and Africa. They tend to be religious Muslim. Birth control is not necessarilly forbidden by Islam, but is discouraged. Of course in Africa , Pakistan , Indonesia and Malaysia many men have two wives at minimum. And that means two families. Polygamy is not good for the planet.

[Mimosa]

33. Here are the facts and figures

Some sites try to spin the figures by using the Netherland's population density instead of rates of reproduction. Or claim that the US with only 5% of the world's population uses more resources.

However, here are the unvarnished facts and figures:

http://www.overpopulation.org/culture.html

[Warren DeMontague]

39. The Pope is one factor, not the only one. That countries like France & Italy use birth control is

because their populations tend to ignore the Vatican's goofy edicts on the subject.

The fact remains that in countries with high standards of living, personal autonomy & reproductive freedom, birth rates tend to be self-limiting. Acknowledgement must be made that the so-called 'population problem' is a regional, economic, and culturally dependent localized phenomenon.

But invariably these threads devolve into generalized hate-fests against "TEH YUPPY BREEDERZ WHO LET THEIR BRATS SCREAM IN TGIFRIDAYS", and "I am morally superior because I don't have any children except for my thirty-seven kitties"... that sort of thing.

[Mimosa]

43. Not unless you go there. ;)

The US population increases instead of declines only because we have been absorbing the overpopulation from other countries, including our neighbours to the South.

Sometimes I wonder if some climatic catastrophe or hot war will wipe a good many of us from the planet. In the history of the world, it's happened before. There was the big flood, then Europe's little Ice Age.

Here are some interesting facts from the link I posted above:

http://www.overpopulation.org/culture.html

India World's Largest Nation by 2030, UN Says
February 25, 2005 Agence France Presse

The UN's latest global population report predicted that India would reach 1.593 billion by 2050, while China will reach 1.392 billion. India will surpass China by 2030. India's fertility rate is over three children per woman while China's is about 1.7. The report also forecast that world population will hit 9.1 billion by 2050, with India and Pakistan seeing the biggest increases. But almost all of the growth will come in developing nations, and the overall increase is "inevitable" even though fertility rates in the developed world continue to plummet. In 15 nations mostly in Europe the birth rate has fallen below 1.3 children per woman. The U.S. increase is due to the continuing arrival of immigrants, who tend to have more children. Population is expected to triple in Afghanistan, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Chad, Congo, the DRC, East Timor, Guinea Bissau, Liberia, Mali, Niger and Uganda. The projections assume a decline in fertility from 2.6 children per woman to slightly more than 2 by 2050. The trend toward lower birth rates combined with longer life expectancy means that the world population will be getting older. Those more than 80 years old are believed to number around 86 million now and will soar to 394 million by mid-century. rw doclink

[apocalypsehow]

40. That's odd: the two countries with the HIGHEST percentage of population growth, China & India, are

not Catholic countries - indeed, I'd be surprised if you could fit the total number of Catholics in either country into an old-fashioned telephone booth. #4 on the list in terms of population growth, Indonesia, is less than 9% Christian, and that's ALL Christians, not just Catholics.

The facts don't support your post.

[Warren DeMontague]

42. Like I said, the pope is one factor. High standard of living + personal freedom tends to =

self-limiting reproductive rates.

As I said upthread, that nominally "Catholic" countries like france have high rates of birth control use is despie what the Vatican has to say on the matter.

[apocalypsehow]

44. I see: I misunderstood your point. On clarification, I agree with the larger point, though I retain

my skepticism that the Pope has much influence on what goes on in China, India, or Indonesia when it comes to reproductive habits. In any event, peace.

[Mimosa]

28. Too many people.

In the course of things, this planet's resources will be used up. Many of the poor people are born into climates and arid places which cannot support them. So they naturally emigrate to more 'amenable' countries. But the jobs and resources are strained in the USA and Europe. Maladjustment and resentments ensue. This was predicted during the early 1960s.

People in many lands have used birth control responsibly. Many of us chose not to have children. It was really from knowledge of the Malthusian future and a spirit of self sacrifice. I bet many people on DU can say the same. We chose not to add more people ven though we have nobody to care for us in our old ages. :(

Yet the poorest of the poor in other countries pop out babies they can't support.

[stuntcat]

30. yep.

There are things I know for definite 100% positive sure about the future. And I'm glad I thought of these things before I gave in to the people pressuring me to make a baby.

I don't know who'll take care of me in old age but it's more important to know I didn't give this century to MY child.

[Mimosa]

34. Stuntcat, I've noticed a while back you and I have a few thinks in common. ;)

I live for art, love, kittehs, literature and truth! *hug*

[stuntcat]

47. *hug*

Thank you :hug:

There is this big honkin' Truth that too many people seem to be denying.
It really gets me down, especially the extinctions. But kittehs & art & music will always get me through. And thanks to the internet I know I'm not alone! :hug:

[Auntie Bush]

35. Oh joy, let's deny more women of birth control and information regarding

family planning...and beget more babies! Many who will starve, be abused or brought up in squalor. Yeah! Let's have more babies and help ruin the environment trying to keep up with their necessary resources. :bounce:

[apocalypsehow]

37. Cool site, thanks for posting. As for "overpopulation" discussed alot in the thread: Ah, meh.

When I was growing up in the 1970s the meme was all around & about that when human population reached 5 billion, everyone would basically starve to death, and the human race would disappear from the planet. Well, we're closing in on 7 billion now, and....

[Mimosa]

38. Well, we're closing in on 7 billion now, and....

...we have brutal wars, especially in continental areas afflicted by overpopulation (see Africa's stats in my link), starvation, and decline in standards of living plus unemployment.

[apocalypsehow]

41. So, what's the solution? If we assume that such a population total is a catastrophic affair, what

specifically should be done to ameliorate this impending disaster? I'd sincerely be interested to hear what your proposals along those lines would be.

[Mimosa]

46. I have no proposals.

As I wrote above, in the history of the world, there have been upending natural catastrophes, devastating wars, climate change and diseases which temporarily reduced the world's population.

How many years I have left I don't know. I'm fortunate to have witnessed much of the last half of the 20th century as well as a decade into the 21st. The future is a mystery. I hope it's not a horror movie! ;)

[sofa king]

54. All we have to do is stop treating women like dirt.

Equitable treatment of women, particularly equal opportunity to education, according to UNESCO, inevitably leads to the expansion of civil and political rights, including reproductive rights, reduces population growth to near-zero, and potentially doubles productivity.

http://www.un.org/popin/unfpa/taskforce/guide/iatfwemp.gdl.html
http://www.unesco.org/education/tlsf/mods/theme_c/mod13.html

I hate to sound like a prick, but I really do believe that children represent a sort of sociological insurance policy for women who are denied equality. Empower them to guide their own fate, and children aren't needed to protect the life of the mother. Reduce their independence, and they have more children, apparently in direct relation to how poorly they are treated.

Another "solution" is to simply let the Malthusian truth emerge by doing nothing. Like the fruit flies in the jar, sooner or later the world population will crash, and the more of us walking around just before that time, the lower the population will drop once the tipping point is reached.

I would rather worship women as the goddesses they are.

(Edit: LeftinOH anticipated my reply by half a day! I really need to read a whole sub-thread before I spout off. But I'm happy to see I'm not alone.)

[LeftinOH]

48. I believe the rights of women (worldwide) has almost *everything* to do with overpopulation.

So long as women are viewed primarily as breeders/property -which is still the case in many parts of the world, and wherever proper birth control is lacking or absent.. the men who call the shots will continue to f*ck things up for everyone:

[apocalypsehow]

49. Again: please dispense with the slogans and scary pics, and give us some solutions.

Some concrete solutions, not more tautological imperatives reduced to fit the space limitations of the average protest-sign. Thanks.

[octothorpe]

53. Terraform MARS NOW!