Nader: College athletics dumbing down society

[LoZoccolo]

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_19040362

OWS is trying to raise awareness of a smorgasbord of economic issues, and he's talking about college athletic programs and blaming them for widespread societal problems.

[YellowCosmicSun]

1. Maybe Nader thinks there is no difference between OWS and the Tea Party?

:sarcasm:

[izquierdista]

2. So the bread and circuses should continue?

Apparently there's not enough college football and junk food, because some people can still think after they graduate. They may not have a job, but they can still think and figure out that they are getting screwed and they better go occupy someplace.

Maybe if colleges went back to teaching, instead of being farm teams for the NBA and the NFL, students could figure out what the future holds for them BEFORE they graduate in a mountain of debt.

[LoZoccolo]

5. So how is it you're going to prove to us that you engage in no recreation

over the course of, say, a week? I think we're going to have to see that in order to know that you are not showing some hypocrisy here in criticizing others for being engaged by bread and circuses.

[Bake]

35. College athletics have been around for decades.

No different now than in the 50s. If you're blaming Wall Street greed on college football/basketball, you're dumber than I think you are. There are FAR more serious problems in this effed-up country.

Bake

[dembotoz]

3. athletic scholarships get some kids who normally would not go to college into college

some are bright,
some are not

it is also a way to bring money into a university
which with tea baggers a foot is a good thing

[ProdigalJunkMail]

4. yeah...that HUGE percentage of college athletes is

dragging down society. sounds like Nader has taken a few hits to the head himself...

sP

[Luminous Animal]

6. He talked about athletic programs because he was speaking to a class which focuses

on college athletics. Did you not read your own linked article?

"Nader's remarks were at a public event associated with a UC Berkeley class on how an athletics program affects a university. The course is co-taught by Nader's sister, UC Berkeley anthropology professor Laura Nader."

[seabeyond]

9. no, i did not read the article. thank you for the point out. tis significant. nt

[seabeyond]

10. with some thought though, hardly the dumbing down of society. they blame women courses and

feminism for all that has gone wrong in the industrialize nations....

[Luminous Animal]

13. The dumbing down quote comes from the title of the article. Not from Nader.

[seabeyond]

32. lol

then maybe i ought to shut up and read the article, huh?

[frylock]

18. what, and pass on an opportunity to engage in more nader hating?

[backscatter712]

7. Seems at some universities...

all the money goes to new stadiums, new training facilities, multi-million-dollar salaries for coaches, nothing but sports, sports, sports.

Meanwhile, the academics departments are all eating budget cuts, having to let people go, can't get enough grants to do enough good research, and are always begging and scraping.

[Freddie Stubbs]

11. Strong athletic programs are often financially self-sufficient

They do not take money away from academic programs.

[Luminous Animal]

15. Not so with the UC system and there is a fair amount of activism rising to separate

the UC athletic departments in order to force them to become self-sustaining.

[backscatter712]

19. They should be giving money to academic programs.

[RaleighNCDUer]

28. Only they they ARE strong, and field winning team - which is the reason why coaches

at Universities are better paid than Nobel Prize winners.

Losing teams, and failing programs are a massive drain on University resources.

[madmom]

36. That's what they try to tell us about our high school athletics department. It's ALWAYS ...

"the boosters paid for it" but as soon as a levy is being threatened the very first thing out of their mouths is we'll lose our football team or whatever. I'm sick of paying for something very few use outside of high school. How about teaching them to balance a check book, sew a button, cook a meal anything they just might find useful in their adult life.

[RZM]

51. Yes, but for every strong program, how many weak programs are there?

Sure, football brings in a lot for SEC schools and the like. But what about all the other schools where the administrators choose lackluster and unprofitable sports programs over academics?

[dmallind]

27. Only 14 ADs claim profits. Football, and occasionally men's basketball, make money

But the AD's spend it all and more on the huge array of financially losing sports.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

44. 22 for 2009-2010

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2011/06/22_college_football_programs_m.html

but this article does give credence to the fact that loads of school lose money on these programs.

sP

[dmallind]

45. I am out of date obviously, thanks - but 22 out of 1250+ NCAA schools is still a tiny ratio. nt

[joeglow3]

47. What impact does Title IX have on it?

I worked in the accounting department of a major university (one of the 22). The football team made ass tons of money, but most of it was soaked up by the women's sports. I am not saying that as a bad thing. However, it was/is a fact.

[dmallind]

48. Not an expert, but certainly a part.

The solution though should not be to shut out women from sports and scholarships, but it probably should be to limit the expenses of non-profitable sports both for men and women.

In all organizations the ones who generate returns get the bigger paychesks and budgets. Companies don't give accountants the same expense budgets as salespeople, and the R&D department at, say, Pfizer, gets a lot more capital investment than the QA department, even though the latter is if anything more important to operations. Why can't colleges limit the travel range of the swim team that generates no profit - even making it an intramural sport if necessary? Why does the women's basketball coach make half as much as the men's while producing one eighth the revenue? Bear in mind it's not the gender of the coach that should drive pay, but the revenue their team generates probably should have some effect. Same for travel, facilities, and other major expenses.

[seabeyond]

8. really? college athletics... who would have thought. oh, the brilliant nader.

truly rolling eyes.

[InvisibleTouch]

12. I don't know about dumbing down society in its entirety...

...but certainly shifting the focus at universities away from where it should be - namely education. I never could understand how sports became a bigger deal than learning at college. I always thought there was something very wrong with that.

[Lucian]

14. I agree with Ralph.

Usually, the only reason many students who are in college who play sports are only there to play sports. They don't give a damn about their degree or their classes. If they can throw a ball or catch one or can jump really high, they'll get a free ride to school while others who want to be there have to struggle to pay. The degrees many professional athletes have are a waste.

[KoKo]

49. So do I.

[madrchsod]

16. poor nader....he`s reduced to bitch`n about college sports

[Luminous Animal]

17. He was speaking at an event organized specific to that issue.

"Nader's remarks were at a public event associated with a UC Berkeley class on how an athletics program affects a university. The course is co-taught by Nader's sister, UC Berkeley anthropology professor Laura Nader.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rex]

20. Unrec for disingenuous OP.

If you actually read, you would know he was there to talk about that specific topic. Not that it matters to a hater...just an important fact you don't care about. :eyes:

I love the fact Nader makes people like you hate his guts...he must be doing something right.

[the other one]

21. Your unhealthy obsession continues

[JackDragna]

22. You know, it IS possible to discuss multiple issues at once.

Once again, you drag out an old, conservative attack tactic: "Oh my god! How dare you discuss X when Y is occurring?"

[City Lights]

24. Some excerpts from the article since LoZ can't be bothered:

<snip>

Society's attention to athletics, Nader said, has moved people down what he called the "sensuality ladder," a theoretical scale of people's interactions with the world. Nader compared athletics to fast food, which "turns the tongue against the brain."

"Your education is supposed to push you up the sensuality ladder," he said.

Society's path down the ladder is reflected in the fact that universities pay football coaches more than professors and that UC Berkeley alumni were more concerned about the elimination of the baseball team than the university's role designing nuclear weapons, he said.

<snip>

Nader's attention strayed occasionally from athletics to other higher-education subjects. He questioned, for example, why the UC Berkeley law school employed "a war criminal," saying professor John Yoo's role in crafting President George W. Bush's torture policies should not be tolerated.

He also told students they should design a statewide referendum to help slow continually rising tuition. And, he said, college students no longer develop the "civic skills" needed to be leaders.

"That's the skill that determines whether you're going to make a difference in a democratic society," Nader said, "or whether you're going to atrophy your mind in a cul-de-sac."

As always, an unrec for you, LoZ. :thumbsdown:

edited to remove bolding

[CanSocDem]

46. Not to forget....

"Society's path down the ladder is reflected in the fact that universities pay football coaches more than professors and that UC Berkeley alumni were more concerned about the elimination of the baseball team than the university's role designing nuclear weapons, he said."

.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Skidmore]

26. I heard that DeFranco sports commentator guy on NPR deliver

a similar argument this morning but more in the vein of the economic success of university football teams forces kids from poorer homes to support other less viable sports such as lacrosse.

[KamaAina]

29. Alas, poor Ralph, we hardly knew ye

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=215x187628

[bowens43]

30. even a blind pig finds an acorn once n a while.....nt

[Romulox]

31. Are we leaving the fact that's he's right to the side for the moment? nt

[Dawson Leery]

33. This is relevant.

Sports have been given much undue priority and respect.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

34. there are some programs that make LOADS of bucks

http://www.businessinsider.com/ncaa-college-football-programs-make-the-most-money-2011-9

kind of interesting to see...

sP

[LoZoccolo]

37. Commentary: Ralph Nader wants to save us all from college football

http://capstonereport.com/2011/10/05/commentary-ralph-nader-wants-to-save-us-all-from-college-football/14060/

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[City Lights]

39. Your obesession is up a notch this morning, eh, LoZ?

One Nader thread didn't do it for you today...you needed a double dose!

:rofl:

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fishwax]

41. omigoshthatsjustoutrageous

[FSogol]

42. Ralph Nader is not ready for some football. n/t

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

43. Good, Ralph......you work on that....

And stay the fuck out of presidential politics, asshole!

[SomethingFishy]

50. Hmmm...

You said this:

"OWS is trying to raise awareness of a smorgasbord of economic issues, and he's talking about college athletic programs and blaming them for widespread societal problems."


I would venture that someone could say this:

"OWS is trying to raise awareness of a smorgasbord of economic issues, and he's talking about Ralph Nader talking about college athletic programs and blaming them for widespread societal problems."

Seems like you are condemning Nader for talking about something that you are talking about him talking about. KInda... odd.

[whistler162]

52. Nader was a college athelete who knew!