Quite honestly, if you are for the Al Awalki killing, then you are for fascism

[Taverner]

Not mincing words here a bit

If you support the killing, and think it was the right thing to do, then you think that we don't need a Judicial System. That it's outdated, a relic of the pre-9/11 world. We should just scrap it and move to the next step.

And being a student of history, the next step is to build vans that go around the country and the world, rounding up *terrorists* and killing them all on the spot.

No trial, no jury, and we shouldn't even say who we took out. That's a classified matter of National Security.

Yes, time to get rid of that Congress too. They're so pre-9/11. Time to make the Executive Government the lawmaker, the law enforcer and the judge and jury. Speeds things up. After all, 9/11! 9/11!! Bin Laden!

[MNBrewer]

1. The response of the people who support the killing will mostly consist of

this smilie



I, on the other hand, Kick and REC

[XanaDUer]

2. No, this one

[bhikkhu]

65. I think it has to do with how you view "the war"

If you think its not real, that its somehow made up or trumped up, that "terrorism" is really a rational response to injustice, and that it would just go away if we stopped screwing with people, then you probably think al-Awlaki should have been left alone.

[Exilednight]

67. We also have a war on drugs, but we don't go around shooting those that dispense or do drugs. n/t

[Safetykitten]

3. Do I get a shirt with it? I FULLY support Obama and what he did.

[Taverner]

4. So that "D" next to the name makes it right, huh?

[Safetykitten]

8. I have to check my "Facism, Your New Lifestyle" book.

[MNBrewer]

10. So no serious points of rebuttal, just ridicule?

[Safetykitten]

15. I don't have to give any other than I trust President Obama to do the right thing...

concerning terror, and I fully support him doing what he needs to get it done.

What do you what? Some hand-wringing over this? This is the insane absurdity of this. As people here know, I have never been a fan of the President. Others while still starry-eyed, had alot to say about my beliefs that he was just a politician, and he would be shown to be just that. But as a politician, he also has to make decisions concerning our collective safety. I completely and totally trust him on that, and will continue to do so. So nothing you can say will change my mind.

Oh, and as the outrage increases, why not serve up a bit for the people that have no HC, job, homeless or the myriad of other things?

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Safetykitten]

23. Wow.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MNBrewer]

28. Would you trust President Perry, or Bachmann to "do the right thing"?

Because some day Barack Obama will not be sitting in the Oval Office, making those decisions. SOME DAY a Republican WILL be elected to office. Do you want that loaded gun lying around for them to pick up and start using?

[Safetykitten]

33. Since he is a one-term only, good question.

[BeHereNow]

39. Oh details and FACTS, NOT that again!

You are such a drag!

BHN

[Safetykitten]

42. Also, since this is not a "kick the can down the road" issue, like HC, or other items, but is

a very at the moment issue. I would rather have a person like Obama making these decisions and stopping a possible attack.

So sue me.

[MNBrewer]

46. Rather than whom?

The Judiciary? How difficult would it have been to take the very long list of allegations to a grand jury to get an indictment. At least obey the forms THAT much!!! What we have here is the 21st century equivalent to a bill if attainder. Piss off the wrong person and your name goes on a list. If it's not exactly that, it could very well morph into that.

[RetroLounge]

"I trust President Obama"

RL

[MNBrewer]

40. The number of things going on right now that rightly deserve outrage

are piling up beyond count. Pretty much EVERYTHING is outrageous. Starting with the decision not to go after the torturers and other war criminals from the Bush Administration right through to President Obama's continuation of the Bush legacy of unrestricted powergrab re: the War on Terra.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tritsofme]

21. Silliness begets silliness.

The OP is not a serious post, it is a strangely deluded one.

[pintobean]

22. and relatively normal

[bluestate10]

64. Can I get one of those shirts? Large, please. nt

[Chan790]

78. +1 n/t

[Recovered Repug]

5. So to be clear,

anyone who doesn't advocate following the strict rule of law - in all circumstances - is a fascist?

[bluestate10]

70. To some, yes. To those that take a more rational view, it depends upon what your total

person is. But perspective is not something those that throw around words that have extreme meaning know about. As a former republican, you should be all too familiar with extremists and the damage they sow.

[ZombieHorde]

6. What makes him different than the other people we have been killing?

Flags with no inherent value or meaning?

I am not exactly disagreeing with your claim; I am wondering if you are not taking your claim far enough.

I don't know; this issue is really complex to me.

[johnaries]

7. Wrong. Obama followed both US and International Law. nt

[ixion]

18. rubbish.

He followed the Bush Doctrine, which is an affront to due process.

[johnaries]

61. Wrong. Educate yourself.

[treestar]

9. Unrec for exaggeration and refusing to deal with the issue

of terrorism and how we can deal with it. It's between crime and war. Not easy to determine what should be done.

[kenny blankenship]

11. Well...Fascists assassinated political opponents. Obama is assassinating to win reelection

It's different. One is the straight up elimination of the political competition, the other is killing popularly despised figures to win mass political approval. By trying to kill his way back into the White House, Obama at least nods his respect to democracy in general, while -admittedly- flipping off our Constitution. A lynch mob form of democracy is still not quite the same thing as autocratic rule by terror - although detractors of mobs might claim they are headed in the same direction.

Can't we agree that these distinctions in evil matter and, hoping that positive reinforcement will train it to be more gentle, resolve to vote for the lesser evil?

[Major Nikon]

12. I always get a good chuckle out of dichotomous thinkers

Thanks for the comic relief.

[Bucky]

57. Quite honestly, if you get a good chuckle out of dichotomous thinking, then you are for fascism

Every time you laugh at the OP, you're basically killing Anne Frank.

[Major Nikon]

68. Holy shit! You're right

Come to think of it, I really am a socialist for believing in progressive taxation and perhaps I should leave the USA just like those bumper stickers with the flag told me to.

[Scuba]

13. K&R

[JVS]

14. Yup

[Zax2me]

16. President Obama is not a fascist.

Far from it and it you don't get it, I have nothing more to offer.

[GliderGuider]

50. Maybe not, but the people who are calling his shots definitely are.

IMNSHO.

[provis99]

55. of course he's a fascist.

Jeez, how blind in allegiance are you Nazi-clowns?

[ixion]

17. Exactly. Spot on.

It is support of the Bush Doctrine and Endless War, pure and simple.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ixion]

26. yep, that it, in a nutshell.

If their 'team' does it, it's okay. It the other team does it, it's inexcusable.

Moral relativism is an ugly thing.

[treestar]

53. Not necessarily. I could support an R doing this

But that's not what they did. Rather than targeting AQ, they used 911 as an excuse to sell people on war in Iraq.

[The Magistrate]

27. It was a Proper Action, Sir, And A Clean One

That would be my reaction regardless of who was in charge.

[MNBrewer]

30. And you would be incorrect

[Poll_Blind]

36. Frankly, I have less quibbles with a straight-up difference of opinion than an...

...inconsistency in thought based on partisanship. Right, wrong, accurate, inaccurate...at least you're consistent.

PB

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mainer]

24. It seems more like an act of war

If you consider Al Awalki's actions that of an enemy combatant, and when that enemy is lobbing bombs or planning to blow up planes with civilians, don't you have a right to shoot back?

[Odin2005]

52. Terrorists are not soldiers, they are criminals. The rules of war do not apply.

[bluestate10]

74. How many criminals raise armies and have as their sole purpose killing of

thousands, even millions of innocent people in one act? President Obama took action against an enemy of the USA, President Obama's action was a wartime decision.

[elleng]

25. Fortunately, there are some in the U.S. who understand the threats and task before us.

Wes Clark in The Guardian

'With the takedown of Anwar al-Alwaki, one more leadership piece of al-Qaida has been smashed. But even more importantly, this demonstrates the effectiveness of the US's adaptation to strike directly and covertly at terrorists, anywhere in the world. . .

His death makes his final legacy a proof of the effectiveness of America's active defense against terrorists. For the United States, the journey continues: Awlaki's death also moves us closer to the time when we must transition, psychologically and practically, from being a nation under threat to a nation that once again champions its openness and welcome to the whole world.

As with the adaptation to face al-Qaida, the transition can be done. It must be worked carefully, for there are still those who would harm America. But it is a transition that must take place, for our greatest strengths lie in living courageously our own values.'

http://apps.facebook.com/theguardian/commentisfree/cifa...

[Bodhi BloodWave]

34. Wes Clark under their buss in 3..2..1 n/t

[Bucky]

59. In order to "throw someone under the bus" you have to be big enough to heft them

Sorry, but no one at DU has the ability or power to bus-toss a prominent public figure.

[Major Hogwash]

29. Hahahahaha!!

Yeah, whatever, sport! You should go live on an island!

[tritsofme]

31. Utter rubbish. Al Awalki was a legitimate military target.

The rest of the hysteria in your post is just stupid.

[bluestate10]

76. Great response.

[cliffordu]

32. Ah, bullshit.

[Ikonoklast]

62. Bless you. That OP made me sneeze, too.

But then, I am allergic to nonsense.

[ellisonz]

37. President Obama gets up in the morning and goes straight for the Swaztika shaped cheerios.

[pintobean]

41. Lucky Charms

He has a sweet tooth. More evidence of fascism.

[ellisonz]

48. He then slices Strawberries and Bananas up with two spoons of sugar and adds to the concoction. .

Irreversible, deadly, Soviet inspired fascism is ruining this country.

[Bucky]

58. First they came for the Lucky Charms, but I wasn't a leprechaun and so I said nothing

[bluestate10]

77. Then they came for the bananas. I wasn't a monkey, so I said nothing.

Then they came for the strawberries. Dammit, ENOUGH!!!

[MineralMan]

43. Ah, binary thinking. Never mind.

Unrec.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MNBrewer]

47. Yes, grow up and take the Constitution seriously.

Instead of walking all over it while wearing a fig leaf called AUMF.

[RSillsbee]

45. OK NT

[Hydra]

49. Quite disturbing today

To find how many people think this is ok, and that their heads are not on the chopping block next.

I think I need some of this:



I wonder if this is what it was like in the USSR. "I trust Stalin!...why am I suddenly in Siberia?"

[LAGC]

73. No kidding.

I feel like we're on the verge of becoming victims of the Secret Police in this country pretty soon...

[Odin2005]

51. There is nothing stopping the government from declaring you a "terrist" and murdering you.

It is that simple.

This is why the PTB pushed that "War On Terror" meme so much, to make people forget that terrorists are civilian criminals, not soldiers. The rules of war do not apply to terrorists any more than they apply to common thieves.

[LiberalEsto]

56. This killing is terrifying in its implications

If a U.S. president can order a drone strike against any individual, including American citizens regardless of how evil or repugnant they might be, it sets a dangerous precedent. Particularly if this individual happens not to be a military combatant.

What's to stop some future Republican/teabag/crazed right wing president from ordering drone strikes against thee and me?

[pipi_k]

60. Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion on the subject. n/t

[bluestate10]

63. Based upon al Awlaki's history, I agree 100% with his killing.

Call me fascist if you want. What I know is that I do MORE actual progressive actions each week than many that amen your call of me fascist do in a month. So, upon minimal review, I don't give a shit about what you and your ilk call me.

[lunatica]

66. Unrec'd for hysterical extremism for two days running

[quinnox]

69. To be blunt, your position is asinine

[blueamy66]

71. Know one of the pilots/flight attendants on one of the planes at WTC....

then I'll speak to you

[MrSlayer]

72. Quite honestly, if you are against the killing, you are a fool.

Your position is ridiculous.

[LAGC]

75. Yeah, I guess the ACLU must all be a bunch of "fools" too right?

That damn pesky Constitution. Who gives a shit what it says anyway?

[bluestate10]

79. Yeah, I guess the ACLU must all be a bunch of "fools" too right?

In the case of al Awlaki's killing. Yes, right.

[LAGC]

80. Oh, so only part of the time then?

It's okay if the ACLU defends the Constitution MOST of the time, just not ALL of the time?

Gotcha.

[MrSlayer]

81. Being that this was completely legal, then yes.

They are fools in this case. All this ruckus over a piece of shit terrorist.

[LAGC]

82. So it doesn't matter if you're a U.S. citizen...

So long as the government thinks you're a terrorist, you suddenly have no rights.

I'm sure that's exactly what the Founding Fathers envisioned when they drafted the Constitution.

[MrSlayer]

83. Please stop with the sanctimonious nonsense.

He declared war on his own country and was actively engaged in acts of war against it. He gave up his rights as a citizen when he did these things. Fuck him. You live in a dream world.

[Exilednight]

85. We don't know if it's legal or not. The courts got out of hearing the case on

a technicality. Put before the courts, I doubt it would pass constitutional muster.

[Bonobo]

84. To all the people who went to the Nazi jokes: FASCISM DOES NOT EQUAL NAZIS.

You are all fools for believing that the only expression of fascism was the German Nazis and it is keeping you blinded to the actual more subtle creep of fascism.

Truly fools.

[NYC_SKP]

86. Opinions may differ.

..but the phrasing of this OP has an insult as its point of departure, so we are locking it.

NYC_SKP, DU Moderator