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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 01:40 AM
Original message
Libyan Revolution Week 32 part 3
Links to sites with updates: AJE Libya Live Blog AJE Twitter Dashboard The Guardian Reuters Telegraph feb17.info Libya Alhurra (live video webcast from Benghazi) Libya Alhurra archives and updates Benghazi Free Radio, in Arabic (may have translators present at times) Tribute FM (English broadcast from Benghazi) libyafeb17.com Libya, In the Spotlight (AJE)

Twitter links: Ayman Mohyeldin, with AJE Ben Wedeman, with CNN tripolitanian, a Libyan from Tripoli Brian Conley, reporter in Libya FreeLibyanYouth, Libyan advocate LibyaFeb17.com twitter account ChangeInLibya, Libyan advocate Sofyan Amry (arrived in Benghazi recently) KiloFoot (general Arab Spring news aggregation)

Useful links: feb17voices Current time in Libya Prayer times in Libya

Week 32 part 2 here.

The Oppressive Laws of Gaddafi's Libya
The government grants the right of association to official institutions by virtue of Law 71 of 1972, which regulates associational activity in Libya. Law 20 of 1991 on the Promotion of Freedom sanctions the death penalty for anyone whose continued existence would lead to the disintegration of Libyan society. The Code of Honor of March 1997 institutes a system of collective punishment for wrongdoing, whereby families, towns and municipalities are held responsible for the actions of individuals in their midst and are subject to punishment such as the dissolution of the local People's Congress or the denial of government services, including utilities, water, infrastructure projects. Associations engaging in political activity are illegal in Libya. Further, political activity is defined by Articles 2 and 3 of Law 71 of 1972 as any activity based on a political ideology contrary to the principles of the Al-Fateh Revolution of September 1, 1969. The Law on Publications, No. 76 of 1972, as modified by Law 120 of 1972 and Law 75 of 1973, govern the operation of the press, reserving all rights to publish.


This is what the Libyan freedom fighters are fighting against. Each and every one, when they went into this, knew that it was all or nothing, they had no choice but to fight. For their very survival.

Marching On in Libya, for the revolutionaries!


Amazigh cultural event and fundraising for the wounded in Tripoli's Martyrs' Square, thousands showed up to support the event.

Photo: Imesli n Tilelli


Day 222 September 27

UCLA kid back from Libya, has home movies
Chris Jeon, the UCLA student who turned up with Libyan rebel fighters last month, is back on campus. He sat for an interview on today's CBS Early Show and shared his personal video footage from his month with the rebels and reveals them to be fans of, yes, Justin Bieber
Libya plans to abolish state security courts
Libya's new rulers plan to abolish the state security courts used by Muammar Gaddafi to imprison political dissidents, the country's interim justice minister said on Monday.
In Romania, refugees from Libya find oasis of peace
Western Romania has turned into a harbour of peace for nearly 200 refugees who fled persecution, abuse or violence -- many in Libya -- and dream only of "living freely", once resettled in a western country.
Libyan anti-Gadhafi forces take over port in Sirte
"Among the reports emerging from Sirte are executions, hostage-taking and the calculated targeting of individuals, families, and communities within the city," NATO has said. The organization has also pointed to mercenaries being involved on the pro-Gadhafi side and civilians denied access to food, water and medical care.
Libyan rebels encounter fierce fighting and 'dirty tricks' from Gaddafi's troops
Suliman Abdul Mula was not surprised when he saw the white flag waved by a group of Muammar Gaddafi's soldiers caught between western air strikes and the rapid advance of Libya's rebels. "We saw they raised the white flag. We thought they no longer wanted to fight for Gaddafi. They are losing and no one in Libya wants to die for Gaddafi any more," said the 31-year-old. "But when we approached, they opened fire. It was a trick."
We had to free our country even at the cost of our own lives
Much has been said about the freedom fighters during the Libya uprising. But what could be referred to as freedom flights also played a major role in the revolution. Capt. Ali Sanusi risked his life several times to fly his BAe 146 into the battlefield. Fiona Galea Debono caught up with the heroic commercial pilot on the runway of the Malta International Airshow.
ZAWIYAH - BATTLE SCARS AND MARTYRS STORIES - 26/09/2011
Upon leaving Tripoli for the first time in 7 months, i visited Zawiyah to pay tribute to their efforts of resistance and to reflect on the many lives lost and the many wounds to heal.
Libya envoy wants African states to prevent Gaddafi sabotage
The international community must put pressure on African countries still backing Muammar Gaddafi to ensure the deposed Libyan leader and his family do not sabotage the country's fight for freedom


Day 223 September 28

Libya fighting rages for Gaddafi hometown
At least seven NTC fighters killed in continuing push for Sirte, while offensive in Bani Walid stalls.
Anti-Gaddafi forces capture Sirte's port
Anti-Gaddafi forces overran Sirte's port on Tuesday, scoring a strategic victory in the battle for control of the ousted Libyan leader's birthplace, as instense fighting carried on inside the city.
Libyan official delivers $16 million to southern city
Libya's transitional government delivered 20 million dinars ($16 million) Tuesday to this remote southern city beset by fighters loyal to Moammar Gadhafi, hoping to bolster support for revolutionary forces.
Gaddafi used you and then he ran away
The graffiti on a wall next to a looted grocery store neatly sums up the plight of a small Libyan town whose entire population fled in fear of reprisals by the rebel forces now in power.
NTC fighters killed in Sirte battle
More than 10 fighters of Libya's new rulers were killed on Tuesday in fierce street fighting with forces of Muammar Gaddafi in his hometown of Sirte, a commander told AFP.
NTC fighters appeal for more NATO help after loyalist rocket barrage kills a top commander
The AFP news agency reports that anti-Gaddafi fighters Wednesday appealed for help from NATO after being blasted by rockets fired by loyalist troops in Bani Walid, one of the ousted Libyan leader's last bastions.
Gaddafi hometown a hazardous prize for Libya's NTC
For months the Libyan fighters who toppled Muammar Gaddafi both craved and dreaded the battle for his hometown Sirte. Nearly two weeks of costly fighting have made it clear why.
'Mass Grave' Found Close To Libyan Hotel
The new Libyan authorities claim to have discovered another "mass grave" in Tripoli - close to a hotel at which Western journalists had been forced to stay.
NTC forces find hidden helicopter at Sirte port
In Tripoli, a senior NTC officer said his fighters, on entering Sirte port two days ago, had found and seized a helicopter hidden under camouflage that appeared to have been made ready for a swift departure.
Libyan fighters capture Sirte airport
Forces loyal to interim government say they are in control of the airport in one of last bastions of Gaddafi support
Gadhafi nephew had house of gold but didnt pay maids
Two housemaids managed to escape from Libya with the help of a Filipino labor attach last week, but two other Filipino househelp have chosen to remain, hoping they would still be paid.
Libya ready to probe possible other Lockerbie suspects
Libya's interim justice minister Mohammed al-Alagi said on Wednesday he was ready to work with Scottish authorities to probe the possible involvement of others in the Lockerbie bombing apart from the sole Libyan convicted for the attack.


Day 224 September 29

Extraordinary argument captured during fresh Sirte assault
Anti-Gaddafi fighters have renewed the battle to capture Sirte with one soldier attempting to use psychological warfare to undermine forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi.
NTC fighters have captured Sirte's port, airport and air base
"We are also controlling north of the city now and our fighters advanced some kilometers from the east side of Sirte. "We won't lose this battle; it's a matter of days."
Libya issues summons for Qaddafis ex-PM
Libya has issued a summons for Muammar Qaddafis former Prime Minister Baghdadi al-Mahmudi, who fled the country for neighboring Tunisia, the interim justice minister said Wednesday.
Girlfriend of Gadafy's son investigated over alleged trafficking of 'escorts'
Talitha van Zon (39), a Dutch former Playboy model who is under investigation in the Netherlands over people-trafficking claims
Libyan Rebels Press Toward Sirte in Hunt for Gadhafi, Sons
Libyan rebel forces pressed again for control of Moammar Gadhafi's hometown of Sirte, which is still held by Gadhafi loyalists. Neil Connery of International Television News reports.
NTC fighters take Sirte airport, plan to hold positions there
Fighters supporting Libya's National Transitional Council say they they are now in control of the airport in Sirte, Muammar Gaddafi's hometown.
Kadafi foes keep up assault on stronghold
Revolutionary forces loyal to Libya's provisional government pressed their assault Wednesday on Moammar Kadafi's hometown, pounding loyalist positions with rockets and mortar fire as plumes of smoke rose from the besieged city.
Behind Qatar's Intervention In Libya
Among the many countries that supported Libya's rebels in their fight to unseat Muammar al-Qaddafi, Qatar was a particularly enthusiastic partner. The Arab emirate of just 1.6 million people, rich in oil and gas, was the first Arab country to recognize the rebel government, the Transitional National Council. It sold Libyan oil on behalf of the rebels to avoid sanctions and supplied them with gas, diesel, and millions of dollars in aid. And Al Jazeera, the satellite broadcaster based in Doha, covered the struggle of the Libyan rebels in even greater detail and depth than it has the Arab world's other revolutionary movements.



Click here for updated map. The size of the circles show population, the color represents control, red for FFs, green for tyrants. Blue circle indicates siege, blue solid indicates incursion.


A topic on the women of the revolution, dispels myths about the treatment of women in Benghazi.

Videos to bring the Libyan Revolution into context
The Battle of Benghazi. BBC Panorama on Libya Part 1, and Part 2. Video of the convoy sent to take Benghazi, taken from a dead soliders cell phone (shows how massive the operation was). Arab Awakening: Libya: Through the Fire. Tea of Freedom Song. Libya: Part 2 - The Uprising Benghazi - Backbone of the Libyan revolution


March 10 7:28pm Saif al Islam Gaddafi says "the time has come for full-scale military action" against Libyan rebels. He goes on to say that Libyan forces loyal to his family "will never surrender, even if western powers intervene".


As of this week the National Trasitional Council has been formally recognized by 94 countries. France (March 10), Qatar (March 28), Maldives (April 3), Italy (April 4), Kuwait (April 13), The Gambia (April 22), Jordan (April 24), Sengal (April 28), The United Kingdom (June 4), Spain (June 8), Australia (June 9), UAE (June 12), Germany (June 13), Canada (June 14), Panama (June 14), Austria (June 18), Latvia (June 20), Denmark (June 22), Bulgaria (June 28), Croatia (June 28), Turkey (July 3), Poland (July 9), Netherlands (July 13), Belgium (July 13), Luxembourg (July 13), United States (July 15), Japan (July 15), Albania (July 18), Slovenia (July 20), Montenegro (July 21), Portugal (July 28), Botswana (August 11), Gabon (August 12), Tunisia (August 20), New Zealand (August 22), Egypt (August 22), Jordan (August 22), Morocco (August 22), Colombia (August 22), Oman (August 23), Bahrain (August 23), Nigeria, Malta (August 23), Iraq (August 23), Greece (August 23), Norway (August 23), Lebanon (August 23), South Korea (August 24), Sudan (August 24), Hungary (August 24), Chad (August 24), Ethipia (August 24), Burkina Faso (August 24), Colombia (August 25), Serbia (August 25), Bosnia andHerzegovina (August 25), Mongolia (August 25), Djibouti (August 25), Cote d'Ivoire (August 25), Macedonia (August 25), Cyprus (August 26), Malaysia (August 26), Rwanda (August 26), Estonia (August 26), Benin (August 26), Niger (August 27), Togo (August 27), Guinea (August 28), Czech Republic (August 29), Philippines (August 30), Slovakia (August 30), Russia (September 1), Finland (September 1), Romania (September 1), Ukraine (September 1), Azerbaijan (September 2), Botswana (September 2), Kazakhstan (September 5), Central African Republic (September 5), Comoros (September 6), Seychelles (September 7), Ghana (September 9), China (September 12), Afghanistan (September 13), Vietnam (September 14), Chile(September 16), Costa Rica (September 16), India (September 17), Iran (September 18), South Africa (September 20), Algeria (September 22), Sweden (September 24), Kenya (September 24).

"One month ago (Western countries) were sooo nice, so nice like pussycats," Saif says in a contemptuous sing-song tone."Now they want to be really aggressive like tigers. (But) soon they will come back, and cut oil deals, contracts. We know this game." - Saif Gaddafi


(Yeah, Saif, as if you weren't "cutting oil deals, contracts" with western states. Who are the 'tigers' now? Bombing your own people.)

The first free public opinion poll ever conducted in Libya reveals clues to Eastern Libyan sentiments
* 98 percent of the respondents do not support the division of Libya as a part of the political solution for the current conflict with the Gaddafi regime. Around 95 percent also don't see any role for Gaddafi or his sons in a transitional period, and think it is impossible to implement any political reform in Libya if Gaddafi or one of his sons stays in power

* Around 96 percent of those polled, believe that the 17th of February revolution can consolidate the national unity of Libya and support the model of a democratic Libya based on a constitution which respects human rights

* Al-Qaeda has not played any role in the 17th of February revolution, say 94 percent of the Eastern Libyans, and 91 percent thinks it's impossible for Al-Qaeda to play any political role in the new Libya

* The National Transitional Council is seen by 92 percent of those surveyed as "expressing the views and wishes of Libyans for change"


This is equivalent to 17% the entire population of Libya, doing the numbers very conservatively.


A Legal War: The United Nations Participation Act and Libya
The above link is to an overview of why Obama's implementation of the NFZ and R2P is perfectly legal under the law. I will not post it entirely here, however, all objections come down to the misinformed position that Obama, by using forces in Libya, was invoking Article 43 of the United Nations. This is wrong. Obama invoked Article 42, which does not require congressional approval to implement. Proof of this is that Article 43 has never been used.

It goes like this: The US law (Title 22, Chap. 7, Subchap. XIV 287d) grants the President the right to invoke UN Article 42 without authorization, the War Powers Act (Title 50, Chap. 33 1541) grants the President permission to act without authorization under "specific statutory authorization" which, by definition, is what 287d does. 1543 of the War Powers Act requires the President to report to Congress, which he did. One can argue all day and night about the legality of the War Powers Act, doesn't change the fact that under the law as it is written, the President acted within the law.






Mohammed Nabbous, killed by Gaddafi's forces while trying to report on the massacre in Benghazi

"I'm not afraid to die, I'm afraid to lose the battle" -Mohammed Nabbous, a month ago when all this began


I'm struggling to come up with something to say about this man. I was not aware of the Libyan uprising until I saw Mo's first report, begging for help, posted here on DU. I was stricken. Here was a man giving everything he had to explain a situation that clearly terrified him, I would not call him a coward in that moment, but you could see the fear in his eyes, and desperation in his voice. For 30 days Nabbous would spend many hours covering the uprising in Benghazi. For many nights I would go to sleep with the webcast of Benghazi live on my computer screen, looking to it occasionally to be sure it was still 'there.' Mo treated the chat room as if we were his friends, and in some way, we were. I never signed up to LiveStream to thank him for all his work and it seems somewhat shallow to do so now, given that I was a lurker for so long. Ever since I took over posting these threads "Libya Alhurra" has been linked as a source of information. It wasn't until last night, when I posted, and twitter posted on Mo's adventures out into Benghazi to try to determine the truth of the situation, that Mo's webchannel became a hit, over 2000 people were watching him stream live. This was curious to him because he'd done many reports like this in the past but he appeared somewhat bemused that the view count exploded as it did. Last night Mo became a star. This is a man who first started out with a webcast replete with fear and desperation finally overcoming that aspect of himself and losing that fear, to become someone who was a fighter for the resistance just as much as those who held the guns. Reporting on the front lines of Benghazi became his final act, and for that he should never, ever be forgotten. I'm so sorry Mo that I never got to know you better.

Arab Awakening: Libya: Through the Fire is a documentary about Mo's last days, please watch it.

Mo's first report, which many of you may remember, begging for help.

Mo leaves behind a wife and a newborn child she had this to say about the No Fly Zone and R2P UN resolution:

We started this in a pure way, but he turned it bloody. Thousands of our men, women, and children have died. We just wanted our freedom, that's all we wanted, we didn't want power. Before, we could not do a single thing if it was not the way he wanted it. All we wanted was freedom. All we wanted was to be free. We have paid with our blood, with our families, with our men, and we're not going to give up. We are still going to do that no matter what it takes, but we need help. We want to do this ourselves, but we don't have the weapons, the technology, the things we need. I don't want anyone to say that Libya got liberated by anybody else. If NATO didn't start moving when they did, I assure you, I assure you, half of Benghazi if not more would have been killed. If they stop helping us, we are going to be all killed because he has no mercy anymore.


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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
1. Libyan Revolution Day 224 updates below, current time in Libya, 8:40am Thursday, September 29
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
2. Libya's tanker fleet seen operational in a month
Libya's tanker fleet seen operational in a month
Libya's state owned oil tanker fleet is set to be back in business within a month, with some vessels ready for trading in the next two weeks after months at anchorage due to war, the country's port authority chief told Reuters on Tuesday.

Libya's interim rulers are stepping up efforts to get the economy and Africa's previously third biggest oil producer back on track after former leader Muammar Gaddafi was toppled last month. The country's seaborne trade is seen as vital for resumption of trading activity.

State-owned shipping firm General National Maritime Transport Company (GNMTC) has been under pressure in recent months due to a combination of sanctions and a freeze on assets belonging to the Gaddafi family, with several tankers that were managed by an international company laid-up off Malta and Singapore.

Ramadan Boumadyan, chairman of the designated committee at Libya's Ports & Maritime Transport Authority, said the interim government was working on getting the 24-strong fleet operational again.


As ellisonz pointed out, wealth for the Libyan people, not Gaddafi and his sons. :)
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Addieny Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 04:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
20. Can anyone suggest a good general discussion message board I could join?
I am looking for a good general discussion message board? I had thought I found one but was very disappointed with it after joining. Any suggestions would be great.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #20
29. You have to find one to your taste.
On the front page there are lists of other resources - maybe you'll find one more suitable.
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Swede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #20
44. One post is a discussion?
nt
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #20
78. Welcome to DU!
Radiation suits are next to the Lounge :donut:
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
3. K&R




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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
4. The bloody battle for Sabha--that wasn't
The bloody battle for Sabha--that wasn't
We were told to be awake and ready to move at 4 a.m. The National Transitional Council fighters we were with were planning to launch a dawn assault on the Saharan city of Sabha.

All predictions indicated it would be one of the bloodiest battles yet. NTC officials said loyalist forces would use weaponry they hadn't used before. They didn't go into detail but it sounded ominous. Western intelligence sources told CNN the fighters in Sabha still loyal to Libya's ousted leader, Moammar Gadhafi, had heavy artillery and would likely use it.

...

An hour later, after an uneventful drive though the desert, we arrived on the outskirts of Sabha. I could see some smoke on the horizon, but could hear no gunfire. Small clumps of people by the side of the road were cheering and waving. Driving further into the city, the crowds grew larger. There was gunfire but it was all in the air, the ubiquitous celebratory gunfire. Up above, a man tore down the green flag from the city's main water tower and sent it fluttering to the ground.

...

The huge, bloody battle for Sabha wasn't to be. No one was disappointed.


Those predictions of this being the 'bloodiest battle yet' are quite familiar.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
5. K&R! Thanks for keeping us up to speed...
Excellent work! :thumbsup:
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
6. A word of caution
Edited on Thu Sep-29-11 02:10 AM by autorank
This is an excellent resource. Kudos.

I was impressed early on with the revolution against Gaddafi and assumed that it was in the spirit of the Tunisian and
Egyptian uprisings. As things developed, it was less clear that the rebels offered a viable alternative. Assuming that
Gaddafi ran an oppressive regime does not lead to the validity of the opposite assumption, that the rebels offer a true
democratic alternative. The rebels propagated the notion that black Africans were serving as mercenaries.

Libya's spectacular revolution has been disgraced by racism

It is also apparent that the military commanders in charge of the rebel forces are former members of a Libyan group
that allied with al Qaeda in Iraq and elsewhere. They were imprisoned and supposedly reformed by Gaddafi. Now they
run the show for the military.

Libyan Rebel Army Led by Rehabilitated al Qaeda Linked Terrorists

The rebels won some early victories, which they were unable to hold. It is only with NATO dragging them across the
finish line that their victory was consolidated. This is the case in Sirte. Without NATO bombings, there would have
been little progress, based on the sequence of events.

It's entirely possible for a regime with serious problems to replace one that displayed problems of an equal or
greater magnitude. The enemy of a dictator is not necessarily the friend of freedom and dignity. There's more
to see as events unfold. But the racism and the ex al Qaeda allies in charge of the rebel military are not encouraging.

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Distant Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. The pseudo-humanitarians are now linked with RACIAL AND TRIBAL GENOCIDE
Nothing in 40 years of the Gaddafi rule compares the the hatred, bloodshed and racial and tribal killing that the West has brought to Libya.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Absolute bullshit.
Edited on Thu Sep-29-11 03:42 AM by tabatha
Please provide numbers to support your wild, unfounded accusations, and see my post below.
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Distant Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Read history, not current propaganda. Please find anything resembling this bloody civil war
And don't Blame the Gaddafi gov. for it all -- U.S. senate testimony was absolutely adamant that there was NO CORROBORATED EVIDENCE OF MASSACRES prior to the Western intervention.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. CAPS do not constitiute proof.
And if you want history, here is some:

http://newlibya.com/?p=36


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Distant Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 04:17 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. WOW. History is anything penned since 2010. SO WONDERFUL. LET'S ALL PRETEND
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 04:21 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. What a stupid argument.
This is a summary of data from existing articles and records.

You have never made much sense.
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 05:12 AM
Response to Reply #18
26. Gaddafi lost. Tell him to go pound sand.
Edited on Thu Sep-29-11 05:43 AM by Iterate
Turns out his beebull don't love him after all and his (non-Libyan) supporters have all the charm of a jilted lover turned stalker. You worry about Nahtoe, you missed the four million pissed-off Libyans. Since they know him better than you ever will, I'll take their word for it.

Here's a trick question: Name one town where there had been fighting without the presence of Gaddafi's army, mainly led by his idiot sons. It's a trick because there isn't one.

Ed. to add CAPS, a pic, and a link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_...


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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 04:28 AM
Response to Reply #13
23. Whoever uses the most CAPS, fonts and bolding...
...WINS!1!! :rofl:
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. Mutassim?
Edited on Thu Sep-29-11 04:07 AM by ellisonz
:rofl:
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
119. It Has Long Been Clear, Sir, Your Purpose Here Is Apologetics For Gaddafi
That you are so obvious about it certainly lessens any effect you might have in moving opinion, however. My advice would be to start up a fresh account, and try and play it more or less on the middle for at least a few posts before opening up with the usual items....
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #119
121. LOL!
Perceptive, as always. But me, I might have recommended a different board...
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. It is not racism - it is revenge for atrocities.
TAWARGA - "Gaddafi used you and then he ran away."

28-Sep-11, 9:55 AM |

The graffiti on a wall next to a looted grocery store neatly sums up the plight of a small Libyan town whose entire population fled in fear of reprisals by the rebel forces now in power.

The people of Tawarga -- who are mostly black-skinned Libyans -- are accused of having played a major role in the siege by Muamma Gaddafi's forces of nearby Misrata, the bloodiest event in Libya's revolution.

Misratans, who say men from the town of around 30,000 people eagerly signed up to kill and rape, like to show mobile phone footage of uniformed Tawargans climbing aboard trucks and chanting that they are ready to take Misrata.

The same images are repeatedly shown on Misrata's television station, fanning the animosity that many Misratans feel - and readily express - towards their departed neighbors.

As Gaddafi forces retreated from Tawarga last month, the town's residents quickly fled en masse, terrified that their neighbours would take revenge. They sought refuge in Tripoli and Sirte and other cities.

Tawarga is now a ghost town, with goats, donkeys and a few cows wandering streets whose buildings are pockmarked by bullets and rockets. Shops and many homes have been looted, and some have been torched.

At a checkpoint on that road on Monday, NTC fighters gave a typically angry reaction when asked about Tawarga. We don't want them living next to us, they said.

"They raped our women, killed our children, they cut their throats. They're not normal human beings," said Yusuf Ali Mohamed. "We want to take those who killed to court. Those who raped, we will never forgive them."

One of his colleagues then produced a mobile phone and showed a video of dark-skinned men in Gaddafi uniforms slapping prisoners, and he said these were Tawargans abusing rebel fighters.


http://www.interaksyon.com/article/14030/bitter-payback...

There are black Libyans who are fighting along side the NTC fighters, and work side-by-side with them in hospitals and all other institutions. The so-called racism is anger at mercenaries of foreign countries being paid to rape and pillage wives and children. While revenge is not good it is a far cry for racism.

By the way the article you cite has been posted a number of times. It is from 30 August 2011 12.10 EDT. Today is September 29, 2011.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
112. Video tweeted today
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 04:02 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. Another caution--the fears about 'Islamist extremists' are over-hyped
There are extremists in all Muslim countries, including Libya, but most of the revolutionaries are moderates.

Some people have motives for propagating the notion that 'the terrorists' are taking over, publicizing the background of anyone involved in the revolution who at any time was involved with an extremist liberation group and claiming an 'Al Qaeda connection' whether true or not. There is always some reason for concern--but watch out for the confident 'Chicken Little' diatribes.

Scaremongers and Gaddafi propagandists focus mostly on Abdel Hakim Belhaj, the revolutionary commander of the Tripoli Brigade who was appointed to lead the military council for the city of Tripoli after he became a popular hero for leading his unit in many crucial battles. He denies ties to Al Qaeda and professes to be a moderate today. That remains to be seen. The propagandists never mention the many rebel military commanders who defected from Gaddafi's forces (and could hardly be accused of being Al Qaeda supporters).

NTC leaders have declared their commitment to democracy in Libya, with a constitution, a parliament and free elections. Some react with alarm to references to Sharia law in a draft constitution, though that is very common as a basis for law in Muslim countries and does not mean they will be Al Qaeda puppets.

Racism remains a real problem in Libya, as it was under Gaddafi. The NTC is struggling to deal with it (and human rights organizations have reported that many black Africans who initially were detained have been released). It's especially interesting that some who constantly disparaged the revolutionaries as disparate, "ragtag" groups now keep repeating old news of abuses and portray them as evidence of systematic racial genocide by the NTC, which suddenly is seen as having been highly organized and under centralized control all along.

In some ways, the road ahead will be more difficult for Libyans than the revolution itself. They face many challenges, and there will be extremists trying to gain influence. But overall, from everything we've seen the outlook is mostly positive.

It won't be pretty, as we should know from the democratic experience in our own country. But in the end, the future of Libya is in the hands of the Libyan people. In many ways, I've found them to be incredibly inspiring. In some cases, not so much. In any case, the decisions they face are theirs to make, not mine. All I can do is wish them well. And maybe bring them a few tourist dollars if I'm able to visit next year, as I hope to do.

Thanks for posting. Because most of us don't have time to follow all of this full-time, these threads are an attempt to compile and consolidate information for 'one-stop' convenience. And we always appreciate hearing from others who find the effort worthwhile.

:hi:
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. These are old articles that have already been posted.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. In this case, they weren't posted as news
They were embodied in a comment expressing concern, which is perfectly legitimate.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. How many times are they going to be dressed up
Edited on Thu Sep-29-11 05:10 AM by tabatha
as an excuse to post - loud stars, muted concern -- what is next?
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. With respect to Al Qaeda links
Edited on Thu Sep-29-11 04:23 AM by tabatha
your story is dated August 31, 2011 at 04:52:35.

I guess the US and NATO are stupid - they have been spending enormous amounts of money fighting Al Qaeda, and are now spending money on installing Al Qaeda in Libya. Please.

The members of LFIG represent 3% of Libya's population and do not support Al Qaeda.

The only reason NATO became involved was to level the playing field by taking out heavy weaponry that the FF did not have. Gaddafi had weapons all over Libya; they had to take out thousands of grad launchers and tanks. On a street to street basis, the FF beat out the pro-Gaddafi forces. There was an article written by a Serbian? adviser to Gaddafi's forces who said they were pathetic. Gaddafi hired foreign contractors from Belarus to shoot any pro-Gaddafi forces who wanted to flee; Gaddafi also forced teenagers to fight for him, or locked them up, or killed them.

There is also something else about which you may not be aware, as a person who has not kept up with these threads. Every town the FF has taken over was done in consultation with the town's elders. They would not have won over those towns otherwise. This is what they attempted to do with Sirte and Bani Walid, but because of the presence of Gaddafi sons, the negotiations failed. Btw, doctors treating pro-Gaddafi forces from Sirte have said that there are very few Libyans amongst them; they are mostly sub-Saharan mercenaries (why would that be necessary?). There are people coming out of Sirte who say that the town has been waiting for the FFs to arrive. They are being abused by the Gaddafi forces.

Additionally - do you know the story of why Tripoli fell so fast? If not, do some reading.

Gaddafi was probably one of the worst rulers on the continent of Africa; atrocity after atrocity after atrocity, not only in his own country but others as well. The godawful situation in Sudan was thanks to his interference. Carter said that he is sub-human. Anything will be better than him. He was close to Hitler.

The Libyans deserve better. It is sad that outsiders who do not know much, choose to pontificate about the Libyan future, making a mockery of those thousands who have died for their freedom - while those people sit here with their own freedom and think that others should not.

You can start learning about Gaddafi crimes here:
http://newlibya.com/?p=36

And please try to post recent articles as we all do.

Btw, the Amazighi in the Nafusa Mountains far outnumber any from LIFG.

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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
58. The command structure of the rebel military is LGIG. That's not controversial, it's a fact
Edited on Thu Sep-29-11 04:31 PM by autorank
Those leaders, while in Iraq, joined up with Al Qaeda.
More militants from Libya are turning up in Iraq, U.S. military researchers say.

U.S. Military Academy researchers studying documents note the continuing predominance of Saudis among foreign fighters.

But an "apparent surge" in Libyans could be tied to "the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group's (LIFG) increasingly cooperative relationship with al Qaeda," a West Point report says.

The Libyan group officially joined al Qaeda on November 3, according to the report, called "Al Qaeda's Foreign Fighters in Iraq: A First Look at the Sinjar Records." CNN Dec 7, 2007


Report from West Point described in article

They run the show militarily. Al Qaeda linked rebels are hardly the people that will serve the Libyan people.
They supposedly went through a rebel rehab the Gaddafi sponsored but, upon graduation, started the military action
against Gaddafi. That's who is in charge.

Of note, even with NATO help, they struggle to take Sirte and Bani Walid. Those in charge of the military are
al Qaeda sympathizer thugs.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #58
69. From wikipedia
2011 Libyan civil war

In March 2011, members of the LIFG in Ajdabiya declared to the press that the group supports the revolt against Gaddafi's rule, and had placed themselves under the leadership of the National Transitional Council. They also stated that the group had changed its name to Libyan Islamic Movement (al-Harakat al-Islamiya al-Libiya), had around 500600 militants released from jail in recent years, and denied any past or present affiliation with Al-Qaeda.<23>

An emir of the LIFG, Abdelhakim Belhadj,<24> became the commander of the Tripoli Military Council after the rebels took over Tripoli during the 2011 Battle of Tripoli.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Islamic_Fighting_Gr...

And 500-600 militants is very small in comparison to the FFs who number in their thousands. The latter care nothing for Al Qaeda, they just want to get on with being a democratic country.

Your "facts" are not facts. And it is a shame that you are so virulent in smearing, and it is grossly unfair to the Libyans.


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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #58
81. One more thing - the reason that Sirte and Bani Walid
Edited on Thu Sep-29-11 09:59 PM by tabatha
are difficult is because of civilians being held hostage. The Gaddafis are putting their weaponry inside people's homes, not allowing people to flee so that it can be one-on-one, FFs versus pro_gaddafi troops.

No one, who is keen to keep civilian deaths to a minimum, is going to have an easy time winning there.

Yours is very lazy thinking - you have an end-game position, all facts are twisted to support that point of view, even if they do not make sense. You never said what is wrong with the FFs that they cannot take Sirte and Bani Walid. What is it?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And as for the term "thug", this is the post from a Libyan on AJE. This person is NOWHERE close to Al Qaeda, and nowhere close to being a thug. He is a professional who has lived part-time out of Libya.

Hi all,
I want to honor the commander who was martyred just recently in Bani-Walid.. close family friend.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-11 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #81
127. My point of view is skepticism. You are celebrating
And you want to call names. This is far from a done deal and we're far from celebrating the victory of
a movement that has yet to be clear on its intentions.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 04:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. Gaddafi did use black Africans as mercenaries from the very outset.
To both suppress the rebellion and force the army to fight. This is indisputable. Human rights abuses have not been widespread from the rebel side - unlike the Gaddafi side.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/libya

The Libyan Islamic Fighting Group has never been directly linked to any Al Qaeda element; interview with Abdel Hakim Belhaj: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVj3XhkZ3kM

Who do you trust more - free Libyans or the CIA?

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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
59. Surely you are not saying that killing black Libyans is justified due to claims of black mercenarie
Edited on Thu Sep-29-11 04:52 PM by autorank
(CBS/AP)

ADDIS ABABA, Ethiopia - The chairman of the African Union says Libyan rebels may be indiscriminately killing black people in Libya because they have confused innocent migrant workers with mercenaries.

Chairman Jean Ping told reporters Monday that this is one of the reasons the AU is refusing to recognize Libya's rebel Transitional National Council as the country's interim government.

He said "We need clarification because the TNC seems to confuse black people with mercenaries .... They are killing normal workers."

Ping also said there was no doubt now the council controlled the capital city of Tripoli and called on both sides to "stop the killing." CBS April 29, 2011


bty, one can be Libyan and a "black African" since Libya is part of Africa. Black African Libyans fighting the rebels
are not "mercenaries" (and there an be black and other mercenaries, i.e., NATO, from other countries. Black has nothing
to do with "mercenaries".)

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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. It's regretable.
I think you need to listen to the average Libyan about what happened and not propagandists with a purely political agenda.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #59
67. Nope, I do not.
Edited on Thu Sep-29-11 05:40 PM by tabatha
The NTC has stated over and over again that there must be no revenge.

Revenge is as bad as the original atrocity. But people who post these article post it only from one side.

If revenge is abhorrent, then the original acts that caused that revenge are abhorrent as well - but are left out of the reporting.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
60. Look who's featured on the new LIbyan government web site: colonialism?
Edited on Thu Sep-29-11 04:49 PM by autorank


British PM David Cameron (top), President Obama (bottom)
Official web site of the Libyan National Transition Council (NTC)

The screen shot is from a couple of weeks ago but they are still there on the NTC web site. Why?
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #60
64. The current accompanying text:
Obama's statement in the White House

"Tonight, the Libyan People's Movement against Gaddafi reached a point of no return, Tripoli began to be liberated from the rule of the tyrant".

London: undertake to release frozen Libyan assets

British Prime Minister David Cameron assured to "release Libyan frozen assets in the near future" in support of the Libyan people, through the UN Security Council.

:rofl:
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #60
68. Simplistic thinking.
Colonialism = having your picture on a website.

Oh.My.God.
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #60
75. Oh this doesn't look good. Look who's on the government website: appeasement?

President Barack Obama delivers remarks during the Official Arrival Ceremony for Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany on the South Lawn of the White House, June 7, 2011. (Official White House Photo by Chuck Kennedy)

This photo is from over three months ago, but it's still on the White House website. Why?
It seems obvious, but only the true believers with their received wisdom can see the truth. These blatant acts of international relations have got to stop.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 04:10 AM
Response to Original message
17. Amnesty: Libyas NTC must protect evidence at Abu Salim mass grave site
Libyas NTC must protect evidence at Abu Salim mass grave site
Protests by families of the Abu Salim massacre victims sparked Libya's uprising

26 September 2011

A mass grave uncovered near Libyas Abu Salim Prison that could be linked to the 1996 mass killing of prisoners should be secured immediately to protect evidence and ensure accurate identification of the bodies, Amnesty International said today.

Libyas National Transitional Council said yesterday that the mass grave had been discovered, and that it would be requesting foreign assistance to carry out exhumations and DNA identification.

Media reports showed relatives of victims and other people unearthing clothing and bone fragments while wandering the site.

These families have been waiting for over 15 years to know the truth and obtain justice, said Claudio Cordone, Senior Director at Amnesty International. The NTC and experts must approach the evidence and remains on this site with the utmost care.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/libya%E2%80%...

Should have been posting more of these all along - I would like to see any case made that Amnesty International is not an absolutely reputable source.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 04:20 AM
Response to Original message
19. Interpol issued an arrest notice on Thursday for fallen Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's son Saadi
World police body Interpol issued an arrest notice on Thursday for fallen Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's son Saadi for alleged crimes during his time as head of the country's football federation.

The new Libyan authorities requested the notice against Saadi, believed to be in Niger, "for allegedly misappropriating properties through force and armed intimidation when he headed the Libyan Football Federation," Interpol said in a statement.

Saadi, 38, was last seen in Niger and the red notice calls particularly on countries in the region to help locate and arrest him "with a view to returning him to Libya where an arrest warrant for him has been issued," Interpol said.

"As the commander of military units allegedly involved in the repression of demonstrations by civilians during Libya's uprising, Saadi Gaddafi is also subject to a United Nations travel ban and assets freeze," it said.

Interpol said it was the first Red Notice issued at the request of the National Transitional Council, with previous such notices issued for Gaddafi himself and other members of his family at the request of the International Criminal Court.

Niger's government said on September 16 that it would not send Saadi back to Libya, but could hand him over to another jurisdiction.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Interpol-issues-arrest-no...
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 05:21 AM
Response to Reply #19
27. Interpol
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 04:51 AM
Response to Original message
24. Gaddafi MAY have been located...


:rofl:


Sorry, I couldn't help myself. My bad. :spank:

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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 05:39 AM
Response to Original message
28. Libyan women signal time to end domestic violence
PETER CAVE: In Libya, women are being recognised for the vital role they played in the revolution.

They were in hospitals helping the wounded, they formed support groups for broken families, and they fed men on the frontline.

But prior to the revolution domestic violence, harassment as well as street violence had become a part of Libyan culture under the Gaddafi regime.

Now a newly formed women's rights organisation is trying to change that.

Connie Agius reports.

CONNIE AGIUS: For many Libyan women the uprising this year was a chance for them to claim a new, stronger role in their society.

Traditional taboos were set aside because the movement was desperate for volunteers.

Now that most of the conflict is over some Libyan women are working to make sure those gains are not lost.

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2011/s3327382....

I bet some of this was due to the stressful environment, and the lack of equality for women.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #28
77. Libya was ranked extremely low for womens rights, in the bottom ten or so.
Here's an example.

Which is why it's extremely disturbing to see women supporting Gaddafi's regime, and being against the revolutionaries, even going so far as to slander the revolutionaries as evil sharia law burka enforcing freaks. Mind boggling.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 05:46 AM
Response to Original message
30. Sirte tweets
Edited on Thu Sep-29-11 05:47 AM by tabatha
FromJoanne Joanne
#SIRTE 3 #NTC fighters were killed in Friendly Fire Wednesday when they were shelled by tank positioned behind them #Libya

PeterClifford1 Peter Clifford
#Libya Fierce fighting continues at #Sirte where snipers kill 2 NTC commanders. tinyurl.com/PCOLibya

Sirte_Feb17 Sirtawi
News coming in from #Sirte that the son of late AbdelSalam AlZadma has executed his own uncle Ali AlZadma under mysterious circumstances.

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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 05:55 AM
Response to Original message
31. Normality returning to Libya as schools reopen
Posted on September 29, 2011 by KLN1
By: Michel Cousins

At Al-Shaheed Yusif Burahil School in downtown Benghazi the cries of excited boys playing football in the school playground can be heard in the streets outside. It is a sound heard the world over. But not for months in Libya.

http://feb17.info/news/normality-returning-to-libya-as-... /

Apart from some Quranic verses, Al-Hounis office walls are almost bare. A picture of Qaddafi previously had a prominent place. So far nothing has replaced it. In fact pictures of Qaddafi used to hang everywhere. We had to have a picture of Qaddafi in every room, sometimes more than one. No longer. The brooding omnipresence has been exorcised from the building and not just from classroom walls.

He used to be mentioned in every book we had to use, the headmaster said, even in the geography books! All mention of him is now obliterated, literally blanked out from the textbooks. That is a bit of a problem in the history classes because it was almost all about Qaddafi. There was little about Libyas past prior to him seizing power in 1969 and absolutely nothing about independence and the period of the monarchy. That will have to wait until new textbooks are issued next year. But the teachers are telling students about the revolution, the headmaster enthused.

Al-Houni says it has had a profound effect on the school. The atmosphere has changed, he says. The teachers are more giving, more dedicated. They are determined to give their best.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 05:59 AM
Response to Original message
32. 4 GOP senators travel to post-Gadhafi Libya
WASHINGTON (AP) Four Republican senators traveled to Libya on Thursday to meet with the nation's new rulers, the highest-profile American delegation to visit the country since the ouster of longtime leader Moammar Gadhafi.

The four lawmakers John McCain of Arizona, Mark Kirk of Illinois, Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Marco Rubio of Florida planned to meet with members of the National Transitional Council, which is now governing Libya after the rebels forced Gadhafi from power. Gadhafi's whereabouts remain unknown, but the new leaders suspect he is hiding in the southern desert of the North African nation.

The senators, whose brief visit was largely shrouded in secrecy, also planned to tour Martyrs' Square and hold a news conference with reporters. They traveled from Malta, where they met with Prime Minister Lawrence Gonzi on Wednesday.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5il_Ya...

Bleecch.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. They will get a polite but chilly reception.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 06:03 AM
Response to Original message
33. Video: The Libyan Pilots who Defied Gaddafi
Edited on Thu Sep-29-11 06:04 AM by tabatha
CNNs Phil Black speaks to two jet pilots who defied Gadhafi and are now considered heroes of Libyas revolution

http://feb17.info/media/video-the-libyan-pilots-who-def... /

One of the pilots is a black person.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 06:12 AM
Response to Original message
34. Video: Inside Libya: Rebel Womans Saga
CNNs Jill Dougherty in Tripoli reports on a woman who risked her life to help anti-Gadhafi forces.

http://feb17.info/media/video-inside-libya-rebel-womans...
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 06:23 AM
Response to Original message
35. We're not interested in Al-Qaeda, we're interested in education
Edited on Thu Sep-29-11 06:25 AM by tabatha
Like most children elsewhere in Libya, those at Al-Shaheed Yusif Burahil School will grow up in a very different Libya to the one their parents knew, a Libya free of dictatorship and where everyone is valued. Almost every Libyan you meet tells you how important education is for the country. Libyans want to catch up with the world, Zuhair Al-Barasi of Libya Al-Hurra said, not just economically but politically as well. We must have an educated people if democracy is to work properly.

However, journalists, particularly Western journalists, have been fixated about the possible rise of Islamists demanding Libya become an Islamic state with Shariah law or whether Al-Qaeda is going to get a foot in the door. It is an idea that Libyans do not even begin to relate to. They are extremely devout but very tolerant Muslims. We're not interested in Al-Qaeda, we're interested in education, said a colleague of Omar Mukhtars son, Haji Muhammad, when Arab News visited him the week before. The insinuation was evident. The two do not mix; Al-Qaeda equals ignorance.

The owner of a caf near the school where we had gone after the visit had similar views. With education, we will go forward. And there was a confident smile on his face when he said it.

http://arabnews.com/middleeast/article508547.ece

To use Iterate's expression for all the alarmists, go pound on sand, and then beat your chests with a Tarzan yell.



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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 07:00 AM
Response to Original message
37. Reuters: Tunisia to hold Al-Baghdadi Ali al-Mahmoudi pending extradition to Libya
49 min 56 sec ago - Libya

Tunisian prosecutors have received a request from the new Libyan authorities to extradite Muammar Gaddafi's former prime minister, Al-Baghdadi Ali al-Mahmoudi, and are therefore keeping him in jail, Mahmoudi's lawyer said on Thursday.

"The prosecutor-general has decided to keep Mahmoudi in prison after receiving a request to extradite him to Libya," his lawyer, Mabrouk Korchid, told Reuters.

A Tunisian court sentenced Mahmoudi to six months in jail for entering the country illegally, but an appeal court later overturned this and ordered his release.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. Former Libyan PM starts hunger strike in Tunisia
From AJE's Live Blog:


Reuters reports: Muammar Gaddafi's former prime minister, Al-Baghdadi Ali al-Mahmoudi, has started a hunger strike in a prison in Tunisa to protest a request for his extradition from Libya's new rulers, his lawyer said on Thursday.

Tunisian prosecutors say they have received the request from the National Transitional Council (NTC) and are therefore keeping him in prison despite him winning an appeal against a 6-month jail sentence for crossing into Tunisia illegally.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-sep-29-2011-1...


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Swede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #39
82. Well too bad he hitched his wagon to a thug.
:nopity:
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
38. NTC forces capture Sirte airport, Reuters journalists at the scene are reporting nt
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
40. UN Human Rights Council recommends Libya's suspension from the council be lifted
From AJE Live Blog:


AFP reports: The UN Human Rights Council on Thursday adopted a resolution recommending the lifting of Libya's suspension from the rights body.

The Human Rights Council "recommends that the General Assembly lift the suspension of the rights of membership of Libya in the Human Rights Council at its current session," the resolution said.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-sep-29-2011-1...


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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
41. Finding My Map, by Nelly Furtado
(Posted at HuffPo)


Posted: 9/29/11 08:30 AM ET


Last January, I was invited to Africa. Somehow, I knew it was time to come home.


While the people, the places left such strong impressions, the hope I left Africa with was more profound than anything else.

...


I learned how one country's political realities can affect all the nations sharing Africa. I learned about Moammar Gadhafi as a leader and dictator. I felt so ignorant but, at the same time, enlightened. My thoughts immediately went back to a concert I performed as part of a celebration thrown by someone described as an "oil sheik" in Italy in 2007. That night, I met a "son of Gadhafi" who had helped pay for the celebration. I didn't know much about Libya then; in Kenya, I began to learn more.


A month or two after I returned from Kenya, as the Libyan civil war heated up, I found myself, BlackBerry in hand at 3 a.m., unable to sleep: In Libya, people who rightly believed the cost of freedom was worth it because the benefits were tenfold, were being killed; people were living things I couldn't truly fathom, but I could feel the weight of them inside my heart. At that moment, in an act of solidarity, I sent a tweet about my intentions to return money I felt wasn't truly mine.


I decided to give the $1 million (what I was paid to cover all expenses for the 2007 concert) to Free The Children, but wanted a plan that would include the people of Libya.
I decided on a sustainable program, rather than immediate aid, inspired by the work I had seen in action with Free The Children in Kenya. I wanted to support women's rights in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) regions of Libya, Egypt, Tunisia and Gaza. I wanted to help educate girls so they might have a place in the new democratic regimes in MENA post-revolution -- a revolution many women helped spark.

...


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nelly-furtado/finding-my-...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
42. McCain at Tripoli press conf: 'I have dreamt of returning to the liberated capital of Iraq'
Edited on Thu Sep-29-11 09:53 AM by pinboy3niner
Matthew Weaver and Haroon Siddique post at The Guardian's Live Blog:


The former Republican presidential nominee John McCain has been speaking in Tripoli, where he is part of the highest-profile US delegation to visit Libya since Gaddafi was ousted.

McCain and the three other Republican senators - Mark Kirk, Lindsey Graham and Marco Rubio - accompanying him, met the head of the National Transitional Council, Mustafa Abdul-Jalil, and other high-ranking officials from the interim government.

The men then gave a press conference. McCain began with a slip of the tongue saying "I have dreamt of returning to the liberated capital of Iraq", and corrected himself after the mistake was pointed out by one of his fellow-senators.

He thanked the US's French and UK allies in the Nato operation and told the press conference:

"This is Libya's revolution not ours but the US will stand with you."

...


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2011/s...



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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #42
65. McCain is really showing his senility.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
43. Syrian regime supporters pelt US envoy with eggs

By BASSEM MROUE - Associated Press | AP 7 mins ago


BEIRUT (AP) Supporters of President Bashar Assad stoned the convoy of the U.S. ambassador to Syria as he arrived for a meeting with a leading opposition figure on Thursday, then pelted him with eggs and tomatoes and tried to break into the building while he was inside, the opposition activist and a U.S. official said. The American envoy was trapped in the office for three hours by the angry mob outside.

Ambassador Robert Ford, an outspoken critic of Assad's crackdown on the 6-month-old anti-government uprising, was unharmed and eventually escorted out by Syrian security forces, who showed up more than an hour after the attack began. He was meeting with Hassan Abdul-Azim, who heads the outlawed Arab Socialist Democratic Union party.
...

http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-regime-supporters-pelt-us-...


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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
45. Libya to honour deals with foreign firms - central bank



Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:13pm GMT

Committed to all deals not tainted by corruption

Says won't impose (foreign exchange) controls

Commercial banks to issue credits to importers


By Emad Omar


BENGHAZI, Libya, Sept 29 (Reuters) - Libya is committed to honouring all deals with foreign firms unless they reveal evidence of corruption, and the country will not impose foreign exchange controls, its central bank governor said on Thursday.

Libya's banking system was functioning again following last month's fall of the capital Tripoli in the uprising against former ruler Muammar Gaddafi, and the central bank had sent instructions to commercial banks to start issuing letters of credit to importers, Qassem Azoz said.

Currently, commercial banks in the country are run by steering committees under the supervision of the central bank.

"By year-end all commercial banks should have elected boards in place," Azoz said.

...


"The priority would be to provide foreign exchange required for treating those injured during the uprising," he said, adding that the second priority was food supplies and drugs.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7KT3MJ20...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
46. Libya's NTC retakes airport in Gaddafi home town



Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:25pm GMT


NTC forces recapture Sirte airport

Former Libyan PM goes on hunger strike in Tunis jail

Civilians caught in crossfire in sirte


By Joseph Logan


SIRTE, Libya, Sept 29 (Reuters) - Libyan interim government forces recaptured the airport in Sirte, Muammar Gaddafi's birthplace, on Thursday, amid mounting concern for civilians trapped inside the besieged city.

National Transitional Council (NTC) fighters took full control of Sirte airport, Reuters witnesses said. They had taken it two weeks ago, but then lost it again. Sirte's pro-Gaddafi defenders have used sniper, rocket and artillery fire to fight off two full-scale NTC assaults on the city in the past week.

Each side has accused the other of endangering civilians.

"They're shelling constantly. There's indiscriminate fire within individual neighbourhoods and from one area to another," Hassan, a resident who escaped the city, told Reuters.

...


Fighting on Sirte's eastern and western approaches was less intense on Thursday than on previous days, but the NTC said it had cleared a route between the two fronts, allowing its forces to link up -- a strategic boost along with retaking the airport.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7KT3G920...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
47. Battles rage for control of Kadhafi hometown

By Jay Deshmukh | AFP News 21 minutes ago


Moamer Kadhafi diehards fought pitched battles Thursday with combatants loyal to Libya's new rulers for control of the ousted despot's birthplace Sirte, with the heaviest fighting at the port.

...


Forces of the National Transitional Council had been forced to retreat during ferocious fighting on the eastern edge of Sirte that raged through the night, their commanders said.

But after a brief lull, they returned to the fray in the early afternoon, an AFP reporter said, with the two sides shelling each other and trading heavy machinegun fire around the port as well as near the Mahari Hotel.

The firefight intensified, with NTC tanks firing barrage after barrage of shells towards loyalist positions and pro-Kadhafi snipers firing on the NTC fighters from rooftops, the reporter said.

NTC military chiefs said their forces remained in control of the hotel and the port, which they overran on Tuesday, but that the situation was fluid.

...


http://sg.news.yahoo.com/anti-kadhafi-fighters-capture-...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
48. NATO airstrikes conducted Wednesday, September 28

Key Hits 28 SEPTEMBER:


In the vicinity of Sirte: 1 ammunition / vehicle storage facility, 1 staging and firing location, 1 command and control node and staging area, 2 ammunition and missile facilities, 1 tank.


...


International Humanitarian Assistance Movements as recorded by NATO


Total of Humanitarian Movements**: 1532 (air, ground, maritime)


Ships delivering Humanitarian Assistance 28 SEPTEMBER: 1


Aircrafts delivering Humanitarian Assistance 28 SEPTEMBER: 37


**Some humanitarian movements cover several days.


http://www.nato.int/nato_static/assets/pdf/pdf_2011_09/...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
49. Gaddafi spokesman Moussa Ibrahim reported captured outside Sirte
From AJE's Live Blog:


Muammar Ghaddafi's spokesman Mussa Ibrahim was captured on Thursday outside of the former Libyan strongman's hometown of Sirte, National Transitional Council's field commanders told AFP.

"Misrata fighters contacted us and gave us the information that Mussa Ibrahim has been captured," said Mustafa bin Dardef, of the NTC's Zintan Brigade.

Another commander, Mohammed al-Marimi, said: "Mussa Ibrahim was captured while driving outside Sirte by fighters from Misrata."

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-sep-29-2011-2...


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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Gaddafi's Spokesman 'Captured In Sirte'--Sky News
Reportedly now confirmed by an NTC official:

http://news.sky.com/home/article/16079781

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CJvR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 04:27 AM
Response to Reply #50
90. I wonder if...
...even that will be enough to shut him up.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
51. Jibril says he will not be part of new transitional government

AFP reports: Libya's interim prime minister Mahmud Jibril said Thursday that he will not be a part of the new government, the formation of which has been postponed until the end of the country's conflict.

Asked at a news conference in Tripoli about the timetable for the government's announcement, Jibril said: "I hope that soon we will free Sirte and Bani Walid to begin negotiations on the formation of the transitional government, of which I will not be a part."

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-sep-29-2011-2...


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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
52. Sirte_Feb17 : Ali Tareq Al-Jidda, Mutasim Gaddafi's right hand, was captured today in #Sirte

Sirte_Feb17 : Ali Tareq Al-Jidda', Mutasim Gaddafi's right hand, was captured today in #Sirte. #FreeSirte #Feb17 #Libya
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
53. Qaddafi spokesman Mussa Ibrahim captured outside Sirte dressed as woman
Source: AFP (via Al Arabiya)



Last Updated: Thu Sep 29, 2011 22:25 pm (KSA) 19:25 pm (GMT)



Ibrahim had been the public voice of the Qaddafi regime until NTC fighters overran Tripoli
on Aug. 23. (Photo by Reuters)



By AFP
SIRTE LIBYA


Muammar Qaddafis spokesman Mussa Ibrahim was captured on Thursday outside of the former Libyan strongmans hometown of Sirte, field commanders from the new regime told AFP.

Misrata fighters contacted us and gave us the information that Mussa Ibrahim has been captured, said Mustafa bin Dardef, of the National Transitional Councils Zintan Brigade.

Another commander, Mohammed al-Marimi, said: Mussa Ibrahim was captured while driving outside Sirte by fighters from Misrata.

He said there were reports that Ibrahim was dressed as a woman, but that he could not immediately confirm that.

...


http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/09/29/169361...




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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #53
71. If true...I hope they let him do the perp walk as they found him.
Edited on Thu Sep-29-11 06:29 PM by ellisonz
:evilgrin:
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
54. Nobel Peace Prize may recognize Arab Spring activists
The Peace Research Institute Oslo has predicted that some of the cyber activists who played important roles in the Tunisian and Egyptian revolutions are in line for the 2011 Nobel Peace Prize. Every year, this Norway based organization speculates on who will win this prestigious award. And with the Arab Spring dominating the headlines this year, they think its only logical that the Nobel committee will be focusing on the revolutions in the Arab World.

They see Egyptian activist Esraa Abdel Fattah together with the April 6 Youth Movement which she helped set up as top contenders. In 2008, the 30 year old blogger created a Facebook page calling for a general strike on the 6th of April. Thousands of Egyptian workers took to the streets that day; over the months that followed the movement started to take a clear shape and went on to play a pivotal role in the uprising.

Cyber activist Wael Ghonim has also been named as another candidate. This former Google executive is the administrator of a Facebook page which was instrumental in starting the anti-Mubarak uprising in January. He was held in custody for 10 days during the revolution, and upon release he received a heros welcome in Tahrir Square.

And Tunisian blogger Lina Ben Mhenni could also well be in line for the award. With the government of Ben Ali gagging the press, the 27 year old tirelessly posted daily reports on her blog, recounting the revolution which changed her countrys history.

Over 200 other candidates join these cyber activists in the running for the 2011 Nobel Peace Prize, and the winner will be announced on October 7th.

http://www.france24.com/en/20110929-nobel-peace-prize-m...
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
55. New regime closes in on Gaddafi clan

Jay Deshmukh

September 30, 2011 - 5:44AM

AFP

Libya's new rulers have stepped up the hunt for Muammar Gaddafi's inner circle, seeking the arrest of one of his sons, Saadi, and announcing the capture of his spokesman Mussa Ibrahim.

They also said another Gaddafi son, Mutassim, was in the deposed despot's birthplace of Sirte, where old regime loyalists fought pitched battles with combatants loyal to the ruling National Transitional Council.

...


Libya's Al-Hurra Misrata television also said Ibrahim had been caught outside Sirte and that he had been in a car and veiled, adding that it would soon broadcast footage of his capture.

...


http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/new-regime-c...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
56. Tripoli residents want revolutionaries out

By HADEEL AL-SHALCHI - Associated Press | AP 25 mins ago


TRIPOLI, Libya (AP) More than a month since revolutionary forces seized the Libyan capital, the heavy thud of anti-aircraft guns and the crackle of automatic weapon fire still echoes across the city, and bands of young fighters in pickup trucks bristling with heavy weapons cruise the streets.

Revolutionary brigades from across the country swept into Tripoli late last month in a stunning offensive, effectively ending Moammar Gadhafi's nearly 42-year rule and sending the longtime dictator into hiding. While Tripoli's residents are still reveling in their newfound freedoms, they are also beginning to grow weary of the continued presence of hundreds of armed fighters in the city.

...


"We have witnessed negative behavior from the revolutionaries in Tripoli, and the NTC has fallen short because it hasn't given the local council any authority or support to rein in the revolutionaries," said Mohammed Shabbu, a businessman who helped set up the Tripoli Support Group.

Shabbu is drafting a letter to the NTC calling on it to order all outside revolutionary brigades to leave Tripoli. He warned that their long-term stay has sapped some of the support residents feel for them.

...


http://news.yahoo.com/tripoli-residents-want-revolution...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
57. Libyans working hard to shed 'mad dog' Gadhafi image

By Hannah Allam | McClatchy Newspapers


TRIPOLI, Libya Libyans are eager to put the long and strange reign of Moammar Gadhafi behind them, but they say his fugitive status only bolsters the mystique of a ruler who never missed a chance to embarrass them on the world stage.

"When we traveled, we stopped saying we're Libyans because everyone on the outside thought we dress in drapes and live in tents," said Amal Emsaed, 20, a student at Tripoli University.

Only "death or capture," she and other Libyans said, would finally put an end to Gadhafi's larger-than-life persona at home and abroad.

For most of the past four decades, Libyans cringed at Gadhafi's flamboyant get-up, his self-proclaimed "king of kings" title, his gun-toting female bodyguards and the Bedouin tent he pitched on official visits to New York, Paris, Moscow and Rome.

...


"Every time he opened his mouth or wanted to drag his tent somewhere, we'd say, 'No, God, please don't let him do it,' " said Sondes el Zaidi, 22, an aspiring fashion designer in the eastern city of Benghazi. "On Facebook, I would never admit that I'm Libyan, but now I'm so proud. We're laughing about him these days, but, my God, it was embarrassing."

...


http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/09/29/125666/libyans-wo...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
61. LIBYAN REVOLUTION DAY 225: CURRENT TIME IN LIBYA = 12:10 AM FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 30
Libya time = EDT +6 hours, PDT +9 hours, UTC +1 hour, GMT +2 hours





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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
62. Sabha, just recently freed, talks about local elections.
In the name of God the Merciful the proposal on the election of local council city of Sabha revised version of the proposal made ​​by the brother Abdul Baset Ahmed Eboumzariv one rebel Misurata Introduction: -

After the liberation of the city of Sabha from the remnants of the tyrant, the need became urgent to form a local council elected in a democratic way to go Amoar the city and as a result of the importance of stage and sensitivity, it is important that the city of Sabha of the cities that provide ideal Mahtdy for the exercise of democracy, which deprived them during the reign of the tyrant Muammar Gaddafi and therefore the time has come for this city held its first legislative elections is the choice of a local council team runs the city in the next phase is which confirms the leadership of the city of Sabha and adds another value in the eyes of the free world.

We suggest that the elections take place through the selection of an Electoral College represents different segments of the citizens of the city consists of 200 to 300 people, as shown below.

I / electoral college - the body which holds the the election of local council of the city of Sabha and the election of the President of the local council and his deputy from among the candidates according to the mechanism referred to later. Shall also be entitled to a quarter of members of this complex call the electoral college for the meeting for the withdrawal of confidence from the elected Council or any of its members two-thirds majority, shall also be entitled to the President of the Council and half the members of the Council elected the right to call the electoral college for the meeting for the withdrawal of confidence from one of the members of the Council or the President. He also has to cancel the decisions of the Independent Electoral Commission or Taidha to prevent some people from running who complain about these decisions to the electoral college.....

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=342274&l=8954e5a...


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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
66. Whats behind Libyas fast march to democracy?
Edited on Thu Sep-29-11 05:20 PM by tabatha
In a trip to Libya this month, just weeks after Muammar Qaddafis fall, I found peace coming fast to Tripoli, despite continued resistance in several Libyan towns. Ten days ago, families with children mobbed Martyrs square, where Qaddafi once held forth, to commemorate the hanging 80 years ago of Libyas hero of resistance against the Italians, Omar Mukhtar. Elementary schools opened last week. The university will open next month. Water and electricity are flowing. Uniformed police are on the street. Trash collection is haphazard but functioning.

This is the fastest post-war recovery I have witnessed: faster than Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq or Afghanistan. Certainly faster than Somalia, Sierra Leone or Rwanda.

Why this rapid recovery in a country marked by four decades of dictatorship? Why does Libya seem on track while Egypt seems to have gone off the rails? Libya has at least three important advantages: good leadership and clear goals at the national and local levels, careful planning and adequate resources.

Libyans believe Mustafa Abdel Jalil, who leads the National Transitional Council (NTC), is uncorrupted and uninterested in continuing in power. He has pledged not to seek future office. He has visited the liberated cities to celebrate the single goal of freeing Libya from the Qaddafi regime. The NTC has replaced Qaddafis green flag with the red, black and green banner emblazoned with the star and crescent that was Libyas flag at independence. The revolution in Libya was not interested in compromise or a managed transition. It wanted a clean break: Qaddafi out and a new, more democratic regime, in.

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/09/27/whats-...
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #66
76. One thing that must not be forgotten, as Juan Cole pointed out, the protracted battle created unity.
Nothing is more powerful, nothing is more unrelenting than a unification process. It helps that Jalil is someone who ultimately was the first to defect, and has championed human rights in Libya from before, risking his own life by contesting Gaddafi's tyranny, and even stepping down (Gaddafi refused his resignation).
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
70. Exclusive: Concern grows over militant activity in Libya
After allegedly forging ties in Afghanistan with the Taliban and al Qaeda in the wake of the September 11, 2001, attacks, Belhadj reportedly was arrested with his wife by the CIA in Bangkok and later extradited to Libya, where he was imprisoned until 2010. He was released under a reconciliation plan promoted by Gaddafi son Saif al Islam.

In an interview this month with the Al Jazeera website, Belhadj said he was subjected to "barbaric treatment" while in CIA custody and later to "many types of physical and mental torture" in Gaddafi's notorious Abu Salim prison.

Asked about his dealings with al Qaeda, Belhadj said, "We have never been in a relationship with them or joined them in any kind of activity because we could never come to an understanding of (philosophies)."

"Libyans are generally moderate Muslims, with moderate ways of practice and understanding of religion. You can find some extreme elements that are different from the mainstream, but this does not in any way represent the majority of the Libyan people."

Secret British intelligence files recovered by anti-Gaddafi forces from the offices of Gaddafi's advisers show that the British kept a close watch on suspected militants in Britain who they believed were linked to the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, the main anti-Gaddafi Islamic militant network.

The documents, obtained by Reuters, show that during a February 2005 visit to Libya, British intelligence expressed concern the LIFG might be becoming more militant because some al Qaeda links were emerging. But in a 2008 visit, British officials reported that some UK-based Libyan militants had qualms about closer ties to al Qaeda.

A person familiar with British government investigations of militants said U.K. authorities believe that LIFG, as a group, abandoned violence in 2009, although individual Libyan militants remained active in al Qaeda's central core.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/29/us-libya-mili...

A lot of hype, which then gets down to the above paragraphs indicating that there really is nothing to be concerned about.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
72. Libya rules out forex controls
By REUTERS
Published: Sep 29, 2011 23:57 Updated: Sep 30, 2011 00:06

BENGHAZI, Libya: Libya is committed to honoring all deals with foreign firms unless they reveal evidence of corruption, and the country will not impose foreign exchange controls, its central bank governor said.

Libyas banking system was functioning again following last months fall of the capital Tripoli in the uprising against Muammar Qaddafi, and the central bank had sent instructions to commercial banks to start issuing letters of credit to importers, Qassem Azoz said.

Currently, commercial banks in the country are run by steering committees under the supervision of the central bank.

By year-end all commercial banks should have elected boards in place, Azoz said.

http://arabnews.com/economy/article508968.ece

What, no colonialism?
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
73. Libya's planned revision of school curriculum
29 September 2011 Last updated at 10:24 ET Help

During the 42 years of Colonel Gaddafi's rule, Libya's education system became the testing ground for the many ideological whims of its leader.

Libyan students are now returning to their studies and a school curriculum that needs a complete overhaul.

Jonathan Head reports from Tripoli.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15110795

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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
74. As Libyas crude output rises, so do oil workers expectations

Talk to Libyan oilmen and their message is as optimistic as it is clear: theyre bringing their sector back on stream quickly and are ready to supply the West with its light sweet crude. Theyre not wrong

Derek Brower, TRIPOLI:

With little fanfare, a tanker carrying 381,000 barrels of oil left Marsa El Hariga, a port next to the eastern town of Tobruk, for southern Europe on 25 September. It was the first cargo of Libyan oil to be sold to a foreign buyer as yet undeclared since fighting shut down the countrys oil sector in April.

The oil was from Arabian Gulf Oils (Agoco) Sarir field, southeast of Benghazi, one of the rebel-held fields knocked out of action by rocket attacks from Muammar Qadhafis forces early in the war.

Elsewhere in Libyas vast desert interior, the industry is sparking back into action, too. Big fields in the southwest -Sharara, Feel, Wafa should begin pumping within days, or at most a couple of weeks, according to senior Libyan oil executives interviewed by Petroleum Economist. The prolific Sirte basin, home to the bulk of Libyas oil reserves, including the Waha complex, is also close to producing.

http://www.petroleum-economist.com/Article/2908999/Upst...
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
79. But an Islamist is not an Islamist is not an Islamist.
Edited on Thu Sep-29-11 08:39 PM by tabatha
Egypt: Why the Muslim Brotherhood Isn't All That Fraternal
By Rania Abouzeid / Cairo

The thundering wave of democratic change sweeping across the Middle East has empowered Islamists, a development often couched in "told you so" tones by some commentators and politicians. But an Islamist is not an Islamist is not an Islamist. Like most political ideologies, there are shades sometimes just gray, at other times, more starkly black and white between the various groups now giving voice to their long-stifled political rights.

This vibrant, boisterous awakening is loudest in Egypt, the Arab world's most populous state and the birthplace of some of Islam's most influential modern thinkers, including Hassan el-Banna, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, and Seyyid Qutb, considered by some the father of modern Islamic fundamentalism and an inspiration to al-Qaeda.

A plethora of Islamist political forces have emerged in Egypt from hardcore Salafists (who espouse a strict, literalist reading of the Koran) to more moderate, inclusive bodies. Although the revised political party law issued by Egypt's military rulers, the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (SCAF), prohibits the establishment of parties based on "religion, geography or race," the new organizations have dodged that restriction by forming "civil" groups with Islamic frames of reference, like the Brotherhood's Freedom and Justice Party. To date, SCAF has denied only one licensing application, submitted by the formerly militant group Al-Gamaa al-Islamiya, which waged an insurgency against the Egyptian state for decades until the mid-1990s.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2095351,0...
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
80. Activists in Arab World Vie to Define Islamic State
CAIRO By force of this years Arab revolts and revolutions, activists marching under the banner of Islam are on the verge of a reckoning decades in the making: the prospect of achieving decisive power across the region has unleashed an unprecedented debate over the character of the emerging political orders they are helping to build.

Few question the coming electoral success of religious activists, but as they emerge from the shadows of a long, sometimes bloody struggle with authoritarian and ostensibly secular governments, they are confronting newly urgent questions about how to apply Islamic precepts to more open societies with very concrete needs.

In Turkey and Tunisia, culturally conservative parties founded on Islamic principles are rejecting the name Islamist to stake out what they see as a more democratic and tolerant vision.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/30/world/middleeast/arab...

Another story along the same lines - discussion and debate among Islamists.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-11 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
83. Libya Council Delays Interim Government
Source: Bloomberg



By Robert Tuttle - Sep 29, 2011 3:34 PM PT


Libya may not have a new interim government for weeks or months, said Mahmoud Jibril, prime minister of the nations National Transitional Council.

No government will be formed until all of the North African country is liberated, including the cities of Sirte and Bani Walid where forces loyal to Muammar Qaddafi continue to fight, Jibril told journalists yesterday in Tripoli, Libyas capital.

There was a decision by the NTC to maintain the executive office as is with some changes at the ministries, he said at a press conference in Tripoli. The liberation of all of Libya can take a week, a month. We dont know.

...


He also said the council plans to scrap all tariffs on imports of food and foodstuffs and to import 750,000 heads of lamb to feed Libyans during the upcoming Islamic holiday Eid Al Adha. The interim government also approved payments of a 400 dinar monthly stipend to the families of those killed in the seven-month revolt and 450 to 500 dinars a month salary for soldiers who fought in the conflict, he said.

...


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-29/libyan-interim...




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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
84. SA vets help Tripoli Zoo
Alex Eliseev | 2 Day(s) Ago

While Libyans gather to celebrate their freedom at the destroyed compound of Muammar Gaddafi, a South African team is trying to save the Tripoli Zoo from disaster.

Headed by experienced vet Amir Khalil, the Four Paws team spent their first day delivering medical supplies and securing food for 700 animals.

The zoo was at the centre of the battle for Tripoli and was abandoned by staff after they were not paid for four months.

Besides the noisy parrots near the main office, the zoo is quiet.

Reeds grow through the paving, fountains have run dry and benches are swallowed by tall grass.

Bullets are still scattered outside the enclosures and the hippo pool lies under a hole blown open in the roof.

Khalil said the animals are still deeply traumatised.

http://www.ewn.co.za/Story.aspx?Id=74880
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
85. Libyan Gen. Salihin speaks to Anatolia hours before death
Edited on Fri Sep-30-11 01:16 AM by tabatha


One of the most important officers of the Libyan National Transitional Council (NTC) and commander of the siege in Bani Walid, Gen. Dau Salihin, spoke to an Anatolia news agency correspondent just hours before being killed by Muammar Gaddafi's forces on Wednesday.

Salihin gave an exclusive interview to the Anatolia team at a farm built by Gaddafi for wild animals some 40 kilometers from the Bani Walid front.

A two-room building that has dirt all over its road is our command center for the siege of Bani Walid. I am pleased to be speaking with a Turkish journalist. Turkey has a special place for me and the Libyan insurgents. You have a special place in our hearts. We are happy to see Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's support for us and for what he has said about Libya, Salihin said.

The siege of Bani Walid continued for weeks, and the war between Gaddafi forces and the NTC will determine the future of Libya, the general noted.

Bani Walid is crucial, as all of Gaddafi's armed forces have come here. Gaddafi's well-trained special forces have all converged in Bani Walid, the NTC officer noted, adding, Gaddafi forces attack us with around 500 rocket launchers daily.

http://www.todayszaman.com/news-258370-libyan-gen-salih...

The NTC forces' siege of Bani Walid took place on three fronts. We have completely cut off all logistical support to Gaddafi forces. We are trying to gain hold of Bani Walid without hurting the civilians in the city, he said, adding, As such, the siege has taken a long time.

http://www.reuters.com/video/2011/09/29/anti-gaddafi-mi...
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 01:14 AM
Response to Original message
86. Channel Gheryan on Facebook: The massacre of dam and visited the Valley
Uploaded by Tariqmxm on Sep 28, 2011
Massacre heinous killed 6 of the youth corner brave they were killed at the hands of the ousted Ahmed Ben Romdhane A agents Alqrmafa in Alosabah were thrown the bodies of martyrs in the dam and valley visited the Association near the city of Gheryan was discovered the bodies after about 80 days they were killed
Wednesday: 28 - 09-2011 Tarek Moussa - Gheryan channel on Facebook

http://youtu.be/Bvk3TUGpgOA

http://ar-ar.facebook.com/7aerlibe
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
87. AJE: Hugo Chavez insults new Libyan Ambassador to the U.N.
2 min 31 sec ago - Libya

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, one of the last remaining friends of Gaddafi, ridiculed the country's new UN representative, calling him a "puppet" and a "dummy".

The new ambassador to the United Nations, Ibrahim Dabbashi, "shouldn't even have been there," Chavez told reporters in Caracas, where he made an appearance to quell rumors that he was in bad shape as he recovers from cancer treatment.

"Of course, that guy was there (at the United Nations) supported by the Yankees and NATO, that's why he sat there. They sat him there. He's a puppet, a dummy," said Chavez.

According to the Venezuelan leader, "right now there is no government in Libya".

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya

Hugo Chavez is a big dummy.
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #87
88. He is actively isolating himself more and more after all the good he did.
For Venezuela.
Sad.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 03:29 AM
Response to Reply #88
89. The writing is on the wall. Don't respond to non-violent protesters with force.
Edited on Fri Sep-30-11 03:31 AM by ellisonz
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 05:26 AM
Response to Reply #89
94. True, if the non-violent protesters have a modern air force
Libya's non-violent protesters have NATO air forces clearing their path to victory. Without that advantage, they'd be in the same abysmal condition as Syria's non-violent protesters.

If there are non-violent protesters in Venezuela, they have no air force, so have no traction.

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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 05:52 AM
Response to Reply #94
97. NATO waited until Gaddafi's thugs were on the outskirts of Benghazi.
I think we might see some sort of resolution on Syria eventually. The incident with the attack on our Ambassador today was an escalation. That had to be govt sponsored. We can hope.

Venezuela has an air force: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_Air_Force
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #97
101. I realize Venezuela has an air force, but
if an anti-government protest movement were to arise, that air force would not be their friend. They'd need some other (OAS? UN?) air force to enforce a "no-fly" zone, or they'd be crushed like Syria's protesters.

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Distant Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #89
95. Less suppression of non-violent protest in Libya than in any other uprising. It became VIOLENT
very quickly, with the "protestor" being the ones attacking cities and moving against Gov. forces.

Those are the facts, but it does not really matter to those who like killing and war.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 05:54 AM
Response to Reply #95
98. I suggest you consult some legitimate sources on Gaddafi's Libya.
:puke:
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #95
104. At the top of the page, there is a link to this video:
http://youtu.be/z41kQvx4uKw

If you have not seen it, I suggest you watch it.

For someone who posts about Libya, your knowledge of events sure is miniscule.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #104
114. It's a very good video. Almost entirely non-violent protests.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 04:52 AM
Response to Original message
91. Libya probes Kadhafi spokesman's 'capture'
Edited on Fri Sep-30-11 04:54 AM by pinboy3niner

By Jay Deshmukh | AFP 27 mins ago


Libya's new rulers were on Friday probing the whereabouts of the public voice of Moamer Kadhafi's regime as a television channel said it would air footage of Mussa Ibrahim being detained disguised as a woman.

...


But the fighters' high command in Libya's third-largest city Misrata said it was unable to confirm the capture of Ibrahim, who has kept up a steady stream of pro-Kadhafi broadcasts from unknown locations while on the run.

...


Libya's Al-Hurra Misrata television said it would broadcast footage of Ibrahim's capture, adding that the images showed him being detained in the back of a car outside Sirte wearing a veil.

However, a spokesman for the Misrata military council, Adel Ibrahim, told AFP late on Thursday: "We cannot confirm he was arrested."

And a pro-Kadhafi website denied that his long-time spokesman had been captured.

"Mussa Ibrahim has not been captured," the website of the former state television channel Allibiya said.

...


http://news.yahoo.com/libya-probes-kadhafi-spokesmans-c...



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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #91
92. If there's video OMFG - heads will explode.
Break out the popcorn :popcorn:
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 05:11 AM
Response to Reply #92
93. There's still no independent confirmation that he really was captured
I've been checking since it was first reported, and there's been nothing after all this time.

The 'confirmation' from an NTC official merely confirms that he got the information from two field commanders who were the source of the story. And for all we know, one commander may be relying on the other's information.

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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #93
96. Sure. One can hope...
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #96
109. No more hope.
AJE post

Mussa went about two weeks ago from Bani to Sirte but he IS NOT CAPTURED
Just a look a like
oldest trick in the book
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #91
99. Libya casts doubts on Ibrahim capture


From: AFP
September 30, 20118:01PM


THERE are growing doubts that the vocal spokesman for fugitive Libyan strongman Muammar Gaddafi has been captured after reports he had been seized while disguised as a woman, complete with veil.

Libya's new rulers were probing the whereabouts of Moussa Ibrahim, the public voice of Gaddafi's fallen regime, as one television channel said it would air footage of him being detained in women's clothing.

National Transitional Council (NTC) commanders said they had received reports from fighters on the ground that Ibrahim had been seized outside Gaddafi's hometown of Sirte, where his loyalists have been under siege for the past week.

...


However, a spokesman for the Misrata military council, Adel Ibrahim, told Agence France-Presse: "If the Misrata fighters had captured him, they would have told us."

...


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/libya-ca...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
100. Civilians flee Sirte battle, fighting hampers aid -UN



Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:20am GMT


Civilians stream out of Sirte

Doctors see malnutrition cases

No negotiations on new cabinet


By Joseph Logan and Rania El Gamal


SIRTE, Sept 30 (Reuters) - Civilians fled Sirte on Friday as interim government forces pounded the coastal city in an effort to dislodge fighters loyal to ousted leader Muammar Gaddafi.

...


Doctors at a field hospital near the eastern front line said an elderly woman died from malnutrition on Friday morning and they had seen other cases.

Some families leaving from the west told Reuters they had not eaten for two days.

A man with a shrapnel wound to his left arm said the hospital in Sirte had no power and few supplies. A doctor had tried to patch up his wound by the light of a mobile phone.

...


Ahmad Mohammed Yahya told Reuters street fighting was erupting in the town most nights and that pro-Gaddafi fighters were aggressively recruiting local people.

"Sometimes they offer to give you a weapon," he said. "And sometimes they take people and force them to fight."

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7KT4YC20...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
102. Libya tenders for 100,000 Tonnes milling wheat



Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:12am GMT


HAMBURG, Sept 30 (Reuters) -

...


"This tender could be a sign that grain trade is starting returning to normal in Libya but uncertainties, especially with the banking system, may mean that a lot of trading houses will not participate," one trader said.

The tender sought 50,000 tonnes for shipment two weeks after the opening of a letter of credit for the purchase and another 50,000 tonnes four weeks after the letter of credit opening.

...


"Libya has a huge requirement and needs to get things rolling but the banks need to be working," another trader said. "There are estimates that Libya has short-term need for about 500,000 tonnes of wheat, 100,000 tonnes of corn, 50,000 tonnes of soymeal and between 50,000 to 100,000 tonnes of barley."

It is believed some barley purchases have been made by Libya recently but the details are unclear, he added.

Libya's banking system is functioning again following last month's fall of the capital Tripoli in the uprising against former ruler Muammar Gaddafi, and the central bank had sent instructions to commercial banks to start issuing letters of credit to importers, the country's central bank governor said on Thursday.


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7KU1KC20...




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al bupp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
103. Turkey to press ahead with sanctions against Syria
Posted to LBN by alp227

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Includes a reply by pampango which excerpts from an interesting article: Balance sheet on Syria's import ban
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
105. Decoy documents?
FreeBenghazi Libya.elHurraBenGhuzzi told @free_misurata that fighters found documents in name of Ibrahim, when they checked car carrying family fleeing Sirte #Libya3

FreeBenghazi Libya.elHurraMisrata Commander Adel BenGhuzzi, told @free_misurata that reports of Musa Ibrahim's capture by Misrata fighters are untrue. #Libya
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
106. Ghadames rebels reached an agreement on the return of Tuareg families
Edited on Fri Sep-30-11 10:57 AM by tabatha
Ghadames rebels reached with representatives of the Tuareg in the city to an agreement on the return of Tuareg families to their homes and release the two detainees to have. The agreement includes a pledge to halt their support for the Tuareg al-Qadhafi and the delivery of arms. The rebels accuse the seventeenth of February, a group of Tuareg attack on the Ghadames early Sunday targeted the control and left eight dead and several wounded.
Report: Hassan Rachidi

http://youtu.be/uZqBxTEmPvI

Peaceful demonstration in video.

Here is a tweet about what happened:
@FreeBenghazi
Libya.elHurra
#Ghadames fighters accuse a group of Tuaregs of attacking the city at dawn last Sunday 4 control, leaving 8 dead & several wounded #Libya


And the video shows the civilized way it was resolved.

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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #106
107. Some background from Reuters:

Libya officer at Tuareg-Arab talks in desert town

Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:07pm GMT


GHADAMES, Libya, Sept 30 (Reuters) - The military chief of Libya's new interim government attended a meeting on Friday between Tuareg tribesmen and local Arabs in the southwestern town of Ghadames aimed at patching up differences that have recently spilled over into violence.

The Saharan trading town close to the Algerian border drew international attention this week when an official of the interim authorities, the National Transitional Council (NTC), said deposed ruler Muammar Gaddafi was believed to be hiding in the region.

NTC military chief Suleiman Mahmoud al-Obeidi did not comment on the report or on the hunt for Gaddafi as he prepared to enter the meeting in the town about 600 km southwest of the capital Tripoli.

"I am now here to to witness the agreement between Ghadames and the Tuareg. There has been a problem since July 17," he told Reuters.

...


NTC officials in Tripoli said at the weekend the town, which is under the control of their forces, had been attacked by Gaddafi's military forces, possibly tied to one of Gaddafi's sons, Khamis.

But other sources have said it was a clash between Tuaregs and townspeople -- a more worrying version of events for the NTC because it shows the deep divisions in Libyan society that will remain even if the last of Gaddafi's forces are defeated.


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7KU1SZ20...




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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #107
108. Why do they have to editorialize s h i t
"But other sources have said it was a clash between Tuaregs and townspeople -- a more worrying version of events for the NTC because it shows the deep divisions in Libyan society that will remain even if the last of Gaddafi's forces are defeated."

I thought the forgiveness on the part of the NTC negotiator was extraordinary. That is what heals wounds.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
110. We saw hundreds fleeing Sirte.
Edited on Fri Sep-30-11 12:22 PM by tabatha


We saw hundreds fleeing Sirte. Anti-Gadhafi fighters say they won't attack while people still trying to leave. #Libya

http://twitter.com/#!/PhilBlackCNN/status/1198148220020...

PhilBlackCNN Phil Black
Families fleeing Sirte say they must leave the city before dawn otherwise pro-Gadhafi fighters will stop them. #Libya pic.twitter.com/BqgqqjTK
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
111. ANALYSIS-Libya endgame carries new risks for NATO



Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:52pm GMT


NATO tactics in Libya changing

Final battles pose risks to NATO power, credibility

Hunt for leftover weaponry starts


By Justyna Pawlak


BRUSSELS, Sept 30 (Reuters) - NATO commanders face a tough balancing act during the bloody battle for Muammar Gaddafi's last strongholds, Sirte and Bani Walid.

NATO allies would like to let the National Transitional Council (NTC) claim victory in these battles and war for itself. That would enhance the council's legitimacy as the new ruler of Libya after Gaddafi's four decades in power, and bolster the chances of a stable democracy taking root in the country.

But the European governments that led NATO's air campaign in Libya also need to remain long enough and engaged enough to make sure the success so far is not diminished by a messy withdrawal. If NATO quietly stepped aside but fighting restarted, that would diminish Europe's standing in Libya and tarnish a campaign that has been seen as a success for Europeans.

To achieve this, experts say, NATO forces are keen to cut back the bombing campaign that was instrumental in giving the NTC a military edge. Instead, NATO will likely step up other operations such as surveillance and air support to eliminate any remaining weaponry that could threaten peaceful transition. NATO declines to comment on its immediate operations.

...


NATO, argues Shashank Joshi, an analyst with the Royal United Services Institute in London, lacks sufficient intelligence to allow it to pinpoint targets in Sirte and Bani Walid without endangering civilians.

...


"In Tripoli, you had rebels, you had (Western) special forces, networks of resistance. We don't have that kind of information in Sirte or Bani Walid. So targeting is inherently difficult."

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7KT4SY20...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
113. 19 die as Syrian forces battle deserters, protesters

AFP 32 mins ago


Clashes between Syrian forces and deserters killed 11 people in a village in Hama province Friday, while another eight died during a crackdown on protests in flashpoint Homs, rights activists said.

The killings came as thousands of protesters took to the streets on the Muslim weekly day of prayer that is a lightning rod in the six months of anti-regime protests in which the UN says 2,700 people have been killed by a fierce crackdown.

The activists said those killed in Homs province were shot dead by security forces who opened fire on protesters, even as around 250 tanks and armoured vehicles entered Rastan, a major city in the province where there have been intense military operations against army defectors for days.

"Five civilians and six military and security agents have been killed today in the village of Kafar Zita during clashes between soldiers and agents on one side and deserters on the other," said the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights.

"Eight civilians were killed Friday in Homs province" by security force fire, added the Britain-based Observatory.

...


http://news.yahoo.com/11-die-clashes-between-syria-forc...




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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
115. This is why Sirte is still ongoing.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #115
116. "We don't want to kill our brothers" - Rebel field commander.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
117. AFP: Snipers halt NTC fight for Kadhafi hometown
Snipers halt NTC fight for Kadhafi hometown
AFPBy Jay Deshmukh and Rory Mulholland | AFP 1 hr 22 mins ago

Fighters for Libya's new rulers were forced to regroup Friday on the edge of Sirte, as pro-Kadhafi snipers halted a two-week old assault on the ousted despot's hometown.

------

AFP correspondents on fronts east and west of Sirte said the former rebels had made no advances on Friday.

But in the fiercest fighting for days, the NTC fighters pounded Sirte with 106mm anti-tank guns, rocket-launchers and machine guns, while Kadhafi loyalists hit back with mortar, machine-gun and sniper fire.

One NTC fighter was killed and 11 wounded, a medic said, as NATO warplanes and drones flew overhead without striking.

http://news.yahoo.com/libya-probes-kadhafi-spokesmans-c...
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
118. AP: Rights group calls on Libya to stop prisoner abuse
Rights group calls on Libya to stop prisoner abuse
APBy KIM GAMEL - Associated Press | AP 2 hrs 35 mins ago

TRIPOLI, Libya (AP) Human Rights Watch called on Libya's new rulers to stop armed groups from rounding up suspected Moammar Gadhafi supporters and abusing them, saying Friday that some detainees reporting beatings and electric shocks had the scars to prove it.

-------

The New York-based rights group said it had visited 20 detention facilities in Tripoli and interviewed 53 inmates, including 37 Libyans and 16 sub-Saharan Africans. Five were considered "high value" because of their positions in Gadhafi's government, the report said, without elaborating.

Human Rights Watch, which said it was given unrestricted access to the detainees, said the allegations were even more troubling because Gadhafi's regime was known to torture and kill inmates in its prisons.

------

Libyan officials have pledged to respect human rights, but they have struggled to bring discipline to the largely untrained fighters who took up arms against Gadhafi.

http://news.yahoo.com/rights-group-calls-libya-stop-pri...
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
120. Mine removal
Lt. Gen. Saad Mohammed Mabrouk confessions to camera now confirmed the news that he was commissioned by the Gaddafi Thurs planting minefields in the area of ​​Naima, which lies between Misurata and Zliten .... where he was arrested by the battalion companies Swehli which is currently in Misurata and works to help the rebels in the removal of these mines, which caused the killing and injury of many of the rebels and civilians ....

http://youtu.be/i5b7mQyrx3Q
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
122. Analysis - Libya endgame carries new risks for NATO
Experts say other constraints also complicate NATO's operations in Sirte and Bani Walid as its military commanders plan how to fulfill the alliance's United Nations mandate in Libya to protect civilians during the civil war. So far, NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen has said, there are no confirmed cases of civilians being killed by NATO power, although alliance officials say some cannot be ruled out.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2011/10/1/wo...
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
123. LIBYAN REVOLUTION DAY 226: CURRENT TIME IN LIBYA = 12:30 AM SATURDAY, OCTOBER 1
Libya time = EDT +6 hours, PDT +9 hours, UTC +1 hour, GMT +2 hours




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
124. I have a commitment and will miss the start of Josh's new thread
I'll leave it to you all to K&R and to update, if you can.

Back later...

Love & Peace,
pinboy3niner

P.S. I'm still going to post the jimmypic. :)

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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
125. TA-DA, the jimmypic:


For the newbies to these threads: The jimmypic is an inside joke. Due to Josh's schedule, at times the threads got very long before he was able to start a new one. So the image of the "Rent is too high" guy came to represent the view that "The thread is too long."

So we kid Josh, and put the pressure on (while telling him, "There's no pressure, pal." :) ).

I know Josh will have a new thread up soon. I'm just sorry I'll miss it when it happens. :(


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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-11 11:41 PM
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126. k




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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-11 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
128. Week 33 here:
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-11 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
129. wow. :whistles: Orwell himself must be rolling in his grave
(lol, he undoubtedly *would* be, if he was able to read these threads!)


Oy. (As my grandma would've said.)


:nuke:

...

Historical watershed in certain ways, and as deeply disturbing/alarming/fucked up (or perhaps even more so) than anything the imperialist powers are trying to do on the domestic front, to their own people.


:nuke:

Gotta love these threads though; for some reason, they distinctly magnify the issue(s), as far as the DU microcosm is concerned. :shrug: whatever.
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