Neighborhood Association said No to Awning to protect child's eyes from sun

[RamboLiberal]

But except on overcast days, Jonah cannot go to the pool or for a walk in the park. Glaucoma has nearly blinded his right eye.

-----

Jonah was born three years after they moved to Summerset at Frick Park in Squirrel Hill. All of the windows in their home have shades and blackout blinds in Jonah’s bedroom.

-----

When the Snyders asked to put up a retractable awning over their second floor balcony to protect Jonah from the sun, the neighborhood association said no.

“We requested the awning, they said, ‘No one’s ever requested an awning,’” Dan, Jonah’s father, said. “Then they denied it saying, ‘Does he really have a disability?’”

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2011/09/26/squirrel-hill-family-fights-neighborhood-association-over-awning/

Heartless AHoles!

[MadHound]

1. Why do people suject themselves to these little fascist organizations?

Seriously, I would never consider buying a home that came with the bonus Homeowners Assoc. Too many of these groups have little dictators as their leaders that want to practice conformity, conformity to their own version of normal. If I'm paying tens of thousands of dollars for a house, I want the freedom to do what I want with my house.

These associations serve no useful purpose that I can discern.

[Zoigal]

2. I agree...would Never consider buying a house with a home owners' assoc.

governing the area. Some of the rules are absolutely
ridiculous......z

[nichomachus]

6. I love my HOA

It protect me from dingbats like the ones who live next to my parents house and have their mold-covered house surrounded by junk. It protects me from idiots who decide they want to paint their house in psychedelic colors. It protects me from partiers who want to blast music all night long.

It can be a pain once in a while, but it's a well run association and maintains the grounds impeccably. Not all HOAs are bad.

[Matariki]

10. On the other hand you get to live in homogenized mediocrity.

I personally *like* my neighbors painting their houses in interesting and creative ways. Junk on the lawn, not so much.

[nichomachus]

22. Works for me

[idiotgardener]

11. But an HOA is not the only organization that does those things.

Mold and junk would be a violation of city codes and blasting music all night would be solved by a call to the police.

And nobody needs protection from "idiots who decide they want to paint their house in psychedelic colors" because it doesn't hurt anyone.

[nichomachus]

23. Yeah

That will work. The city will take about two years to respond and the cops will tell you they're too busy, what with having only one guy on duty due to budget cuts. If the cops do show up, they will turn the music down and as soon as the cop is gone, turn it back up again. The cop won't be coming back -- and they know it. A nice fine from the HOA works wonders.

[xmas74]

50. If you sign a complaint

a citation will usually be issued immediately for noise complaints. Same with junk-offer to sign a complaint and most will come out right away. I've done it before-it does work if you know what you're doing.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

15. Mine too.

I've been the president for 10 plus years - because nobody else wants the job. I got shanghaied when I missed a meeting but sent a note that I wanted to install a skylight in my condo (common roof). After the meeting, my neighbor told me "congratulations you got your skylight and you are the new president" LOL

The position holds no "power" because we don't vote as a separate board. We hold every vote to the 6 owners. We've never had a dispute and only a couple votes that weren't unanimous. Heck, the way we "govern" is probably not even technically legal. The by-laws say we should hold more meetings and have separate board meetings. Ptooyey I say.

In 11 years we finally had to asses one fine. Our new neighbors, recent college buddy graduates a.ka. "the boys" who bought their first "pad" together needed a little "help" in the noise and respecting property area. The every weekend parties were getting to wear on a couple neighbors. But it was the pissing off the deck and rolling the 5 gallon Hinkley and Schmidt bottles belonging to another owner down the block and busting them open on the sidewalk that earned a fine. They had several warnings, no pleas, from me and the other owners prior to the fine. They made their offending guest pay the fine and there hasn't been a problem since.

We jokingly call our association a commune. Not much gets done at meetings but a bunch of wine drinking. But all the bills get paid and me and my boyfriend have become de-facto maintenance and wrangler of whatever tradespeople get hired.

[Lucian]

35. WTF does the color of a house have to do with anything?

I wouldn't care if my neighbor decided to paint his house bright neon pink. It's his house and he can do what he damn well pleases with it, as far as I'm concerned.

[The Straight Story]

39. How does it protect you from them? Are you talking about property values/money?

or is it protecting you from seeing things you do not like (ala mold, trash, yard sculptures, etc)?

[gratuitous]

8. I can't say I would, either

But there are many aspects of living in a homeowners' association that are attractive to people. One of them is a greater degree of control over who your neighbors are. Some people have gotten fed up with living down the street from a crack house and being unable to do anything about it because local law enforcement is overburdened as it is. There's also the aspect that indeed, everything looks much the same. You don't have to put up with the hippy-dippy neighbor painting his house purple or day-glo orange. Individual variations are controlled and subject to review by the other folks in the association. There are also appeal rights. If the association makes an adverse ruling, like in this case for the retractable awning, the folks looking to make the change can talk with and persuade their neighbors to let them do it. In addition, homeowners' associations can ameliorate the impact of maintenance and repair and provide more social activities for members.

As I said, not my cup of tea, but there are attractive aspects of belonging to an HOA.

[Matariki]

9. what you said

what's the point of owning your own home if you have to ask a bunch of assholes for permission to do what you want with it?

[notadmblnd]

21. so thye can all live cookie cutter lives in cookie cutter houses

[nichomachus]

24. Not true -- just a slur

My community is very diverse -- absolutely nothing "cookie cutter" about it. And even if it were, what the hell is wrong with that? May not be to your taste, fine, don't live there. However, living in some kind of urban or suburban semi-slum isn't my cup of tea either.

[notadmblnd]

48. Did I say there was something wrong with it?

No, I don't believe I did.

So, did the builder have 3 or 4 different models in your neighborhood?

[Xithras]

44. "The Nazi's built great freeways"

My grandfather didn't like to talk about WW2, but that was one of his standard answers when people asked him what Germany was like. "The Nazi's built great freeways. Perfect freeways. Of course they were perfect...if the workers screwed up, they'd be shot."


When you eliminate freedom and dissent, and can impose structure and order by fiat, you can accomplish great things. HOA's simply take this same concept and apply it on a much smaller scale. They maintain an image of perfection by threatening harm to those who dissent.

Of course, those who live in HOA's do so by choice. It's important to remember that a LOT of people are willing to give up their freedoms in exchange for a little order, and maybe some personal profit. Who are we to tell them they can't? I personally consider them the domain of fascistic idiots, but it's still their choice, and their homes.

[lumberjack_jeff]

3. Neighborhood associations are a little government. A little, tiny republican government.

Holding court over their compliant and docile subjects.

[tallahasseedem]

4. I am a Homeowner's Association survivor...

they are horrible, just horrible.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

5. OK. Call me heartless but I'm a little dubious of their NEED for an awning on the second floor deck.

The kid won't be able to enjoy a full and prosperous life if he can't hang out on the second floor deck in FRONT of the house? The first floor deck is covered but that will kill him to hang out there?

The back yard doesn't have a place they can cover? Nope. Gotta be the front of the house in front of what I suspect is the master bedroom. Hmm.

Can't place a covered porch/deck in the back yard off the family room where the video shows a nice french door leading to the yard? No? Hmmm. Gotta have a covered porch off the master. How convenient.

Look. I'm no fan of repressive HOAs but people who buy in these types of developments like them and sign on to the deal when they buy. I live in a condo association with an HOA and I can tell you, in 11 years, we have never had any disputes. Of course all our neighbors are nice conscientious people who look out for each other and don't treat the HOA as some sort of evil force. We are six units so it's pretty informal. We jokingly call it a commune......

Which leads me to another point. Since when do we all become tea-baggers when it comes to organizing a co-operative system in which to live?

[ljm2002]

7. Which begs the question...

...of just what the hell is wrong with having an awning off the second floor deck in any case? Is it okay to be denied something because "no one else ever asked for one?" So what??? Are they saying that you can never have solar panels, unless the place started out with them? etc... It makes no sense. Their supposed reason for existing is to keep property values up. What they really do is let yet another band of thieves have the opportunity to harass you, keep you from doing things you want to do with your own property, and put expensive liens on your property or even take your home if you don't play along.

Geez. I have a house with a Landscape Association, which is nearly as bad as a HOA (but not quite). When I first moved in, within a week they had sent me a notice to fix the brown spot on the front lawn that was already there when I moved in. Since it was mid-summer, it was far too hot to put lawn seeds in and the nurseries were not selling sod that time of year either. So I asked the friendly cashier at the nursery what I could do, given the notice? She led me to a counter where they had cans of green soy-based dye you could spray on brown grass to make it green (designed to cover up spots where pets had peed). After I got over laughing, I proceeded to buy the can and used it, which seemed to do the trick as I did not receive further notices.

I also planted native wildflowers on the side of the house, and soon had a notice asking me to remove the "weeds". I ignored it and nothing happened.

I also intend to avoid any such association in the future. You get to pay anything from $12/mo to $75/mo for the privilege of having your property rights limited. How ridiculous. Cities already have nuisance laws, so if you have a neighbor using their lawn as a junkyard, you have recourse.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

18. Look. I have no love for oppressive HOAs. I really don't.

Also, I think an awning, done tastefully, would look swell on the front of any of those homes. In fact, the architecture is such that it looks like it "needs" an awning.

But that's not the issue. The issue, to me, is weather the family is making an ADA claim because they have a case of the raw ass over being denied an awning.

[MadHound]

55. Do you know anybody who is light sensitive?

I do, my wife, due to an accident. It isn't severe as this kid's is, but it is bad enough. A tricky thing as well. She can drive in the daylight with sunglasses, but can't drive at night due to oncoming headlights. Her bad eye tires easily, and when it does, certain light, certain time of day can cause a lot of pain. Different locations in the house, north vs. south, east vs west, will cause her pain.

You can't make that kind of judgment that you've made unless you know the kid. Until then, you're just shooting in the dark.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

58. I may be off base. But I do find it suspect they are giving an interview...

.... in front of a NOT shaded french door leading to their NOT shaded back yard. It just seems strange to me the master bedroom is the area that is at issue here.

Like I said elsewhere in the thread, I would vote for the awning if it were my vote to cast. A.) because I don't think an awning is ugly and B.) even if I thought it was, I would still, as a person in a position of authority, give the family the benefit of the doubt.

It's just that I smell a rat. That's all. And a phony ADA claim, used to feather their own nest, is just as heinous as a tight ass board denying a request.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[idiotgardener]

14. Does it have to be a "need"?

Why can't the kid enjoy all the parts of the house that his parents own?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

19. It doesn't have to be a need. How about reasonable? That's the standard.

But that's not the point. Do the parents really NEED this for the kid or do they NEED it because they think a nifty covered porch off the master would come in handy at cocktail hour.

It just strikes me as strange the porch needs to be covered in front but not in the yard where kids tend to play.

[RamboLiberal]

25. I could not find in story all the info you are inferring

And so what if off the master bedroom. Don't you think the parents want to be able to enjoy with the kids? Or even so they can keep an eye on the kids?

And what the heck is wrong with an awning? Would help to keep balcony & room cool in summer.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

29. Here:

Jonah can't sit on the home's second-floor balcony because it's in direct sunlight, the couple said, and the master bedroom is too bright when the sun hits it, too. The family has blinds throughout the home, meaning they live in darkness during the day whenever Jonah is in a room

In April, the Snyders asked to put the awning on the front of their home to shield the balcony and master bedroom from direct sunlight.

Read more: Squirrel Hill battle over awning heads to court - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_758715.html#ixzz1ZCRQv7eZ

I bet someone wants a shaded master bedroom and doesn't mind waiving their kid's disability around. Probably have more money than sense or shame.

I have no problem with awnings. If I were on the HOA my vote would be yes. Heck, I would probably help them erect it. What I don't like is someone using an ADA claim as an excuse to get something they WANT. Lobby the other neighbors and toss those people off the board and elect a board that isn't so tight assed.

[uppityperson]

37. Ah, according to what you quote, he cannot go into the master bedroom at all when it's sunny out.

So you are not simply denying him the ability to join his parents and brother on the front porch, but denying him the ability to go into the master bedroom. What a heart. I guess I have different assumptions than you do.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

38. Ever hear of blinds? They have them in the rest of the house.

They also refuse to use an umbrella or a roof extension.

[uppityperson]

42. 2 neighbors have awnings. They offered to enclose the balcony and were denied.

The Snyders argued that two other homes near them had awnings, though they are on the sides of the homes, but the association wasn't swayed.

On June 28, the association's board amended its rules to ban awnings from the front or sides of homes, according to filings with the city human relations commission.

On July 5, the association rejected the Snyders' offer to enclose their second-floor balcony.

On July 6, the Snyders filed a discrimination complaint with the Department of Housing and Urban Development, claiming that the federal Fair Housing Act allowed them to make "reasonable modifications" to their home. HUD referred the case to the Commission on Human Relations, which then considered whether the association's stance violated local laws.

Thank you for that article link, it gives more info than the OP one did.f They don't want to do a roof extension or portable umbrellas. They offered to enclose the balcony. The association told them no.

[RamboLiberal]

46. To me its the HOA that is snooty

The Summerset group, in Johnson's arguments to the human relations commission, said that it reserves the right to argue that Jonah Snyder is not "handicapped" within the definition of federal law and the city code.

Attorney Beverly Block, representing the Snyders, responded to the commission that "suggestions that the Snyders' son is 'not handicapped' and that their request for an awning is 'simply convenient' for their son's use or enjoyment of the home are simply offensive."



Read more: Squirrel Hill battle over awning heads to court - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_758715.html#ixzz1ZCZWgvg5

[Horse with no Name]

57. Oh where to start

I hang out in my master bedroom. In it, I have a TV, computer, sitting area, books, movies,etc.

The grandkids LOVE hanging out in my room--given any other room in the house they would like to be...hanging out there is the bomb.

While they are hanging out there, I can use the opportunity to get some work done, pay some bills, or just generally kick back and relax.

So, I can so understand why they would want the awning off of the master bedroom if it is anything like my house.

But the thing of it really is...it isn't going to fucking hurt anyone and why does it matter WHERE they want to put the awning??? They could have it off of the bathroom for all I care--if that is what suits their needs.

[Ignis]

27. Why restrict him to the back yard? Are there no basements? No sheds?

Surely this child could live a happy, fulfilling life out of sight, without troubling the beautiful minds of others!!!

[uppityperson]

33. OK. I'll call you heartless and assuming a lot.

"Gotta be the front of the house in front of what I suspect is the master bedroom. Hmm.

Can't place a covered porch/deck in the back yard off the family room where the video shows a nice french door leading to the yard? No? Hmmm. Gotta have a covered porch off the master."

From the OP:
They have taken their case to the Pittsburgh Commission On Human Relations.

Director Charles Morrison was out of town, but he told KDKA-TV: “Evidence does support the family’s claim of discrimination and that the commission intends to file suit against the Neighborhood Association on the Snyder’s behalf.”
-----------------

Ok, you say call you heartless so I will. "The kid won't be able to enjoy a full and prosperous life if he can't hang out on the second floor deck in FRONT of the house? The first floor deck is covered but that will kill him to hang out there?"

Try this: the kid won't be able to enjoy a full and prosperous life if he is unable to go outside a deck on his house? Not "hang" out there but simply go out there? Perhaps. But yes, it is heartless to deny him the baility or need to be able to join his family because they cannot get permission to have a retractable awning.

[TheKentuckian]

13. These silly things need to have their teeth removed by

establishing that membership does not transfer with property and must rather be voluntarily reaffirmed by new owners and that existing owners may opt out by giving 30 days written notice.

[Arkansas Granny]

16. I have to assume that the parents were aware of and OK with the terms of the HOA

when they purchased the property and agreed to abide by those terms. I'm sorry that their son is not able to enjoy the outdoors without being shielded from sunlight, but surely there are other places in their home and on their property that could be suitably shaded to allow him to be outside.

[idiotgardener]

17. The kid is 4 years old.

Do you think they expected a 4-year-old to have glaucoma?

Would you feel the same if the HOA banned ramps in the front of the house and the kid was in a wheelchair?

[Moosepoop]

31. He's eighteen months old.

Jonah, the child with glaucoma, is eighteen months old. His brother Jordan is the four-year-old.

That poor baby is already being given a hard time (and by adults -- supposedly), yet.

[idiotgardener]

52. Thanks for the correction.

And off subject, is there a story behind your user name?

[Moosepoop]

59. You're welcome.

My user name stems from an old family joke. :)

[Arkansas Granny]

45. I'm just saying that they apparently were OK with the rrules and restrictions

of the HOA when they moved into the neighborhood. However, when the rules that they agreed to were contrary to what they wanted to do, they want to make changes to fit their needs. If the HOA decides to alter those rules, good for everyone involved. On the other hand, they can hardly complain if it is decided that the rules that were agreed to earlier are enforced. The main goal of a HOA, and the reason that people sign these agreements, is to protect the property value in the neighborhood as a whole.

[smokey nj]

47. The disabled child was born THREE YEARS AFTER they bought the house, so

whether or not they were ok with the rules at the time they moved in is irrelevant to the discussion. Also, there were no rules expressly forbidding awnings and two of their neighbors have awnings on the side of their homes.

Here's a link to an article with more information.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_758715.html#ixzz1ZCRQv7eZ

[RamboLiberal]

20. The kid was born 3 years after they moved in

Guess they needed a crystal ball.

[Ignis]

28. Another vote for sticking the kid in the basement! Gotta love DU compassion.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[smokey nj]

40. It's absolutely disgusting.

I cannot believe people are siding with the HOA in this case.

[Ignis]

41. "B-b-b-but what about my property value?!"

Yeah, it's more than a little repulsive.

[KamaAina]

26. What part of "reasonable accommodation" don't these morans understand?

It'd also be nice if HOAs were subject to fair housing laws, since they obviously cover more than four units.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

36. Ask the plaintiffs:

But the neighborhood association said the awning wouldn't fit the design of the single-family home and that the couple has refused reasonable alternatives such as portable umbrellas or a roof extension

Read more: Squirrel Hill battle over awning heads to court - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_758715.html#ixzz1ZCSVUz95

[uppityperson]

43. though they DID offer to simply enclose the porch but were denied.

Enclosing it seems reasonable, though more costly than a simple retractable awning.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

49. There's definitely more to the story.

If the family is willing to pay for an enclosure but not a roof extension offered by the HOA as a solution to the problem, then something doesn't add up.

Like I said up-thread, I would happily vote for an awning if I where on the board. I think they look great. Even if I DIDN'T think an awning "fit" the house I would STILL vote for an awning - giving the parents the benefit of the doubt if I were in a position of "power."

That said, as some "d-bag" on the internets, I can't help but smell a rat. An over privileged yuppie rat with more money than sense who doesn't mind waiving their kid around to get the awning they WANT over their MASTER bedroom.

[KamaAina]

54. The Pgh. Tribune Review is Mellon Scaife's rag

not fit to line a cat box, let alone be a source at DU. The legitimate paper in the 'Burgh is the Post-Gazette.

[dembotoz]

30. my cousin got into it with the condo owners association over a railing

after both of her knees with replaced.
she needed one installed outside.
they were refusing.


a letter from her son's lawyer re a violation of americans with disabilties act
etc etc.

she now has a railing

[Shagbark Hickory]

32. Frick Park??? Squirrel Hill??? Were these names changed to protect the innocent or something?

Or is this all a nursery rhyme?

[Matariki]

53. Ha! I was going to point that out too

but thought people would accuse me of making fun of the mentally challenged. Even funnier is the full on pseudo-English manor "Summerset at Frick Park in Squirrel Hill"

:rofl:

[Odin2005]

51. They should sue the HOA for an ADA violation.

The little fascists that run HOAs cannot ignore federal law.

[Octafish]

56. What's the real eyesore?

An awning for a child seeking a little relief from the sun or the greedhead souls?