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Amanda Knox case: it's about money. That's why the murdered girl's naked body was displayed today

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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-26-11 09:22 PM
Original message
Amanda Knox case: it's about money. That's why the murdered girl's naked body was displayed today
Edited on Mon Sep-26-11 09:52 PM by pnwmom
in court, allowing members of the media to take photographs. The attorney who did this despicable thing will lose his portion of millions if the real murderer, Rudy Guede, is the only one convicted in the end.

This is clearly an attempt to get the jury to vote based on the horror of the crime, rather than by the actual evidence of guilt or innocence.

Rudy Guede, the knife-wielding burglar with no connection to Knox or Sollecito, who has already been convicted of the crime, based on dozens of pieces physical evidence, including DNA, footprints, and fingerprints, etc. was sentenced in a separate trial to only 16 years and may serve half of that due to time off for good behavior.

http://gmancasefile.blogspot.com/2011/09/is-this-really...



Today, in the courtroom in Perugia, at 2:40 p.m., without warning, without dignity, without any apparent concern for Meredith or her grieving family, without decency, an attorney began to display eight foot square, gruesome, lurid and obscene naked full-frontal photographs of Meredith Kerchers blood-smeared body, lying on the floor next to her bed where she had been murdered and sexually assaulted. She lay in the very position that Rudy Guede left her after putting a pillow under her hips to assist in the sexual assault. The photos were, to say the least, explicit, and press cameras immediately began clicking, as the courtroom spectators stood and moved toward the huge screen where the large photos were being displayed. Meredith was shown from the tips of her toes all the way to her eyes, fixed in a glassy, gruesome stare above a gaping throat slash. The audience gasped. More grisly photos followed; close-ups of the deep slash to Merediths throat, showing the severed muscles and larynx. But still the photos continued; photos which showed graphically the sputum foam which was the result of her labored breathing as the blood from her neck drained into her lungs. The photos showed her empty eyes and her blood-caked hair.

Who would do such an abominable thing? . . . . Astoundingly, it was the Kerchers attorney, Francesco Maresca.

SNIP

Why would Maresca do this? Sadly, its a simple equation. For Maresca, at least, money is more important than Meredith.

Maresca is not the prosecutor. Maresca is not there to prove guilt. That is not his position in court. He is a CIVIL attorney. He is there for one reason and one reason only: Money. He is there to represent and protect the multi-million Euro judgment against Sollecito and Knox and awarded to the Kerchers. You see, if Knox and Sollecito are exonerated (as they likely will be), the only defendant left (convicted and appeals exhausted, in fact) is indigent. Maresca has been working on this case for approximately four years, and appears to stand to lose an immense commission if the right people are not convicted. The man most of the press and public at the trial believed committed the murder; Rudy Guede is indeed indigent. Knox and her familys finances have been decimated by a four year trial and appeal in Italy. Sollecitos father, however, is a wealthy physician. If Knox isnt convicted, then Sollecito isnt convicted. And if Sollecito isnt convicted, there is no money to award to the Kerchers. And no fees for Maresca to collect. Merediths dignity was simply another card to play, apparently.

SNIP


The graphic, obscene, desecrating photographs shown today had no evidentiary value. No legitimate purpose was served by the photographs. Nothing about the murder scene was in dispute in this session. Nothing about Merediths death, her condition at the time of death, or her body was in play. In short, there was no reason in the entire legal world to show detailed photographs of the violated body of his clients child and sister. No reason except money. The display was gratuitous, designed to horrify and shock a jury. And it horrified. And it shocked. But maybe only the conscience of decent people. Several people left the courtroom, and many were left traumatized.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-26-11 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't claim to know every twist and turn of this case, but I have a visceral feeling
that she did not do this crime. I think the Italian police/legal authorities made a botched mess of the investigation, and they are ready to throw this girl to the wolves to compensate for their incompetence.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-26-11 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. You don't need to know every twist and turn to know
that whenever prosecutors start talking about satanic ritual cult murders -- especially prosecutors with a HISTORY of false prosecution for other satanic ritual cult murders -- skepticism is called for.

In this case, there is no physical evidence whatsoever connecting either Amanda or her boyfriend to the crime -- but a mountain of physical evidence connecting an unrelated third party -- a known burglar who used knives in his burglaries. I agree with you that they threw Amanda and Raffaele to the wolves rather than admitting that they were wrong when they said the case was closed --before they had gotten the fingerprint and other results results back tying Rudy Guede, and only Rudy Guede, to the crime.
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polly7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-26-11 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. 'The murdered girl's' name is Meredith Kercher.
And yes, you really do need to know all the twists and turns to decide any case.

The attorney who displayed the crime photos, is the Kercher family's own lawyer.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/...

"As part of the appeal the court will also hear from the lawyer representing the Kercher family, Francesco Maresca about the emotional suffering the death of their daughter has caused them.

Outside court he said: We are asking and confirming our initial request, which is upholding the original verdict. We cannot and we should not speak of the punishment because that will be at the discretion of the court. We will ask for damages, as procedure requires us to do, even if, as I have said many times, the economic aspect is the last among the interests of the Kercher family.

Are you saying graphic crime photos are unique to this case? Doesn't appear so. http://www.google.ca/search?aq=f&gcx=c&sourceid=chrome&...



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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-26-11 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. the economic aspect is the last among the interests of the Kercher family
said the cheap shyster, "but it is the FIRST of MY interests" he continued.
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polly7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. ya you win. Lawyers who get paid are scum. nt.
Edited on Tue Sep-27-11 12:09 AM by polly7
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. What he presented had NOTHING to do with the case.
Edited on Tue Sep-27-11 12:14 AM by RaleighNCDUer
An 8' graphic violence porn shot of the victim has NO bearing on if Knox and Sollecito committed the crime - it offered NO evidence. The jury knows the poor girl was dead. The ONLY reason to show the picture is to override reason to try to get them to vote emotionally.

This asshole collects a percentage of the CIVIL judgement. If Sollecito is judged not guilty, he can only collect from the indigent Guede, which means, he doesn't get paid.

A fucking ambulance chaser.

EDIT

Ohh, whassamatta? Change your post after actually reading what the OP said?
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polly7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. The photos were offered to show that of the 40 some
stab / slice marks, very few were defensive wounds, pointing in his opinion, to more than one assailant. How is that not relevant???

I'm not sure what your problem is, but I changed my post because I felt like it. I read the OP before I posted the first time. How about you?
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. She had defensive wounds on her hands, and he overpowered her from behind.
Edited on Tue Sep-27-11 01:09 AM by pnwmom
Plenty of larger male murderers have been able to knife smaller women to death as easily as he did. Most likely, she didn't fight until the very end, hoping that cooperating with him would be the safest thing to do.

Maresca said he was showing the pictures in court in order to show how much pain she had been through. The fact that she suffered is not disputed, therefore there was no reason to display these pictures at all. If it had been necessary for jurors to have seen them (which it wasn't), the pictures could simply have been given to the jurors to look at, rather than being blown up and displayed to the world. This was a despicable act on the part of a despicable man who is working to put two clearly innocent young people in prison for life -- all so that he can be paid his fee.
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polly7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Well, he actually said quite a bit more than that.
http://perugiamurderfile.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=355&st...

Quote:
BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Maresca listing what #amandaknox was convicted of in addition to murder: staging a crime scene, theft... now on to motive.


Quote:
BLNadeau
#amandaknox won't look at picture of #meredithkercher battered body that Maresca shows again.


Quote:
BBCDanielS
Kercher family lawyer showing photos of body again in #amandaknox appeal. Emphasising was a sex crime + no defense wounds, so many attackers


Quote:
BLNadeau
Maresca: were these 40+ lesions made by one person while covering her nose and mouth and cutting her throat? #amandaknox


Quote:
BLNadeau
Maresca: This is the proof of the presence of more than one person. #amandaknox Court break until 4:45...
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. He lied when he said she had no defensive wounds on her hands.
And he lied when he said that all the cuts were made at the same time. (your second to last quote)

He had a knife. She didn't. He was much bigger and stronger. It is not hard at all to imagine that, in their struggle, he inflicted all those cuts on his own. There have been many other murderers with knives who inflicted similar injuries.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. A strong man could have overpowered her. Three attackers were not necessary.
But let's pretend that it HAD to be more than one person. Why didn't the police equally investigate ALL the roommates? Why did they not even bother to take fingerprints or footprints or DNA of any of the other roommates or their boyfriends? Or of Meredith's boyfriend? How do you know that none of them left DNA on the bra clasp or in the bedroom?


Ron Hendry, a forensic engineer who has written extensively about the case, describes Meredith's specific injuries here:

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/RonHendry7.html


"All told, the horrible injuries to Meredith Kercher were fully consistent with an assault by a strong man who swiftly overpowered her."

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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Exactly. He has been deceiving them all along.
But I would like to know why they're not speaking out against Guede's light sentence.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Showing 8 foot high graphic murder photos of naked victims in open court
Edited on Tue Sep-27-11 01:03 AM by pnwmom
is NOT normal procedure, and contributed nothing to discussions of evidence in this case. The sole purpose was to inflame the jurors against Knox and Sollecito.

While the Kercher's grief is real, they were NOT required to ask for millions in damages, that was their choice. It was also their choice to start the civil trial for damages before the criminal trial had even been decided. And the actions of attorney Maresca are ALL about the money. To that purpose, he has been feeding the Kercher's need for vengeance.

Why haven't the Kerchers been objecting strenuously to Rudy Guede's sentence being reduced to only 16 years, with more time off for good behavior? He was the one whose semen was found inside Meredith, his footprints and handprints all over the murder site, and whose only alibi was that he was in the bathroom when some other unknown person murdered her; he also said he held her in her arms when he found her, and then left her to die alone rather than to call for help. Afterwards, he went disco dancing and then fled to Germany. Why aren't the Kerchers furious with the way he is being treated as almost a victim himself?
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. Thank you. I followed this case when it first happened
and airc, this woman is no angel as she is portrayed by her supporters. The way the family and their friends here handled the situation did her more than good. Slamming the Italian judicial system the way they did, made me look more closely at it and I have to say she is very lucky she was in Italy and not here when this crime was committed.

Here, she would have probably received the DP and if both women were Americans, all sympathy would have been with the victim, Meredith. But because it happened in Italy, and SHE is American, the behavior of her friends and supporters has been appalling.

If the VICTIM was American, and Amanda was British of Eastern descent, there would not doubt about her guilt.

I wish people would not get personal about these cases. Look at the evidence as much as possible and judge on the merits of the case. Both sides have flaws in their cases, but from my memory of it, I believed there was enough evidence, mostly going by Amanda's own statements and letters etc. to believe she was there when it happened. Beyond that, it was hard to tell what part she might have played if any. And if she is innocent, she certainly didn't act as if she was. Why, eg, were she and her boyfriend at the apt so early the following morning with cleaning materials?

If she is innocent, then I hope they can prove it. It was a horrible case in every way and had Amanda not told so many stories, maybe the police would not have focused on her early on. They did not focus on the other women who were able to give their alibis and who showed appropriate emotion after learning of their friend's death.
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polly7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. You're welcome. I hope the same.
Imo, there are just too many lies and, when you look at the big picture and add it all up, she's not innocent. Either way, I hope the verdict is the correct one ... for sure.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. She is neither an angel nor the devil that they portray her as.
Edited on Tue Sep-27-11 02:46 AM by pnwmom
There isn't enough evidence to find her guilty. That's the bottom line. Every bit of 85 pieces of physical evidence in the murder room was connected to Rudy Guede -- not a single piece to Amanda Knox. This would be impossible if she were one of the attackers.

Your facts are incorrect -- probably based on tabloid reports of four years ago. She was never found with cleaning materials, and there was no evidence of bleach receipts presented in the trial. She had used a (non-bloody) mop from the girls' apartment to clean up a leak below the sink at Raffaele's cottage. But there was zero evidence presented that she or Raffaele cleaned up anything in Amanda's apartment. The murder room itself was covered with blood -- and bloody footprints, fingerprints, etc. It is ludicrous to assert that Amanda could have magically erased all signs of her and Raffaele's presence in the room -- fingerprints, invisible DNA, etc. -- and left only Guede's. If all three were involved in the attack, physical evidence from all three should have been present in the room in roughly the same proportions. But there was nothing from Amanda and , from Raffaele, only the now discredited bra clasp that the police lab claimed had his DNA -- but that the court appointed expert said had so much contamination that she could have found the JUDGE's alleles on it.

Appropriate emotion? You're really going there? She isn't an Italian given to histrionics. So a police investigator said that when he saw her in a restaurant having PIZZA three days after the murder, he immediately suspected her. Because, he said, a good Italian woman would have been in her room, still crying her eyes out.

This is a witch trial. And like witch trials of old, it's about controlling women, about women with "inappropriate behavior," and it's also about money.
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Are_grits_groceries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
28. I think you need to read up on the Prosecutor Mignini.
I read a book called 'The Monster of Florence' about a serial killer, and Mignini was involved in that case. His conduct by any measure was incredible. In fact, he was eventually censored for his role. When I read that he was involved in this case, I thought, 'Gawd help Knox.'

As far as Knox being a sure bet to get the DP if tried in the US, I don't think so. The only hard evidence they had was the DNA. The collection and processing of that was laughable. Experts appointed by the court blasted the prosecutor's findings. And don't get me started about statements made to the police. People caught in those situations and conditions can be broken down so they will say anything. There was enough reasonable doubt to blow wide holes in this case that any US defense attorney would use to the max.

So the prosecutors turned to the tried and true tactic of character assassination used in any systems. Knox was no angel, but the portrayal of her character and actions was extreme and lopsided to say the least. Our system of justice can be warped in cases. However, the shenanigans in this case match any tried here.

I don't think the issue of her guilt is any longer the point. It is a pissing match between rival factions of which Mignini is one. The prosecutors doubled down and asked for life to smack them for appealing and to try to save face. Will the jury members dislike the authorities and their tricks more than they do Knox and foreigners?
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
12. Photographs of victims are always shown to the jury
in murder cases here. I don't think anyone likes it, but it is standard procedure. A friend of ours who is a criminal defense trial attorney frequently carries around envelops filled with gruesome photos of victims of murder which he shows to juries during trials.

I'm not following the rationale of the money claims here. Lawyers get paid regardless of success or failure. And the lawyer will most likely make money writing a book about this if that's what he is interested, win or lose.

I am not at all convinced that Amanda Knox is completely innocent in this case. I was never convinced she actually participated, but that she played some role in the murder.

This article sounds like a smear on the attorney. Where is the evidence to back up the claims that the lawyer used those photos only to make money?
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. They aren't blown up to 8 feet square and shown to the media.
Edited on Tue Sep-27-11 02:49 AM by pnwmom
When have you ever heard of photos like this being blown up and displayed in open court?

This lawyer is getting paid a fraction of the award -- just as many lawyers are paid in civil cases in the U.S. No award, no payment. Do you follow that?
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #12
31. THIS lawyer is not a CRIMINAL: lawyer (other than in the aspect of his own
venality). He is a CIVIL layers whose only job is the collection of the civil judgement. Nothing he says or does is supposed to have any bearing on the criminal case. And he will only get his big payday when the Kerchers collect the settlement.

The ONLY troubling aspect of Knox's testimony was the pointing her finger at the guy who was later exonerated - why did she do that?

BECAUSE SHE WAS SCARED. She realized they thought she was the culprit, so she pointed him out as someone she thought had more reason to be the killer. She didn't know anything about a professional burglar at the time, and in the circle of people who she knew, she thought this guy was the likeliest.

She was not 'lying'. She was hypothesizing. She was guessing. Just like the police were.
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Whats_Happening Donating Member (71 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 02:36 AM
Response to Original message
17. I know you've followed this case far more than I have, however, I have to say --
Edited on Tue Sep-27-11 03:00 AM by Whats_Happening
1) As you are "PNW" mom (pacific north west) I suspect that at least part of your motivation for defending Knox is the fact that she is a fellow local countrywoman to you.

2) Italy is part of western Europe. Do they have problems with their justice system? Sure; every nation does, but I really don't believe that their problems are any worse than ours. I will trust the decision of an Italian court as much as I would trust the decision of any American court.

3) When kids go abroad on boondoggles, they go a little crazy. For most of them, it just leads to a little extra drinking and fucking. Could it lead some of them to violence? Of course it can.

4) Kids are fucked up these days. It's not really their fault - if I had grown up with texting and sexting and the whole electronically malevolent bubble they grow up in, I'd probably be even more fucked up than I am - but they are fucked up. And there are sociopathic women as well as men. I do NOT have a hard time believing that cartwheeling "Foxy Knoxy" is just such a type.






Sorry, but if I was in court in a foreign country accused of murder, I don't think I would look like I was enjoying the attention so much. :shrug:
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Funny, when the Duke students were falsely accused of rape,
Edited on Tue Sep-27-11 03:08 AM by pnwmom
I was accused of being the parent of a Duke student.

Yes, I've probably paid more attention to this case because it got more publicity here than it did in other places. And I know people who knew her who say that nothing they ever saw in Amanda could ever allow them to think she was capable of the murder.

But I didn't really pay attention to the case till around the time of the first verdict. I was hoping to find enough evidence of her guilt to not worry about the outcome of the trial. Instead, the more I studied the case, the more I realized the similarities between it and the Duke false rape case -- especially the grandstanding prosecutor using the case for his political purposes. (Although the prosecutor in this case was even worse -- Miginini has a history of satanic/cult/sex/murder cases for which he has been convicted of prosecutorial abuse. His sentence for that is currently under appeal, and he has been allowed to continue prosecuting pending the final outcome.)

Amanda had no history of violence of any kind. And she had never expressed any kind of anger at all toward her roommate -- look at the trial transcript. It is crazy to think that smoking some pot would have suddenly caused her -- hearing Meredith being attacked by Guede in the next room -- to say to her boyfriend "let's go attack her, too!" Which is basically what the prosecution says. (Actually, the words they put in her mouth were even more ridiculous.)

And it is completely illogical to think that, in a room covered with bloody footprints, handprints, DNA, etc., that every speck of the evidence belongs to only one of three attackers -- and none to the other two. The only logical conclusion is that the single, real killer is the one who left evidence of his presence all over the crime scene, including inside and outside the victim's body.

With regard to the Italian justice system, I think both of our systems have problems. (Troy Davis and the Duke students come to mind.) One of the things that is different about the Italian system is that fully half of original convictions are over-turned on appeal. That is an awfully high error rate, in my opinion. But if Amanda and Raffaele are released now, I will be satisfied that their system worked. Finally.
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polly7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. This is a comment from a person in Italy re their justice system.

This is due to various facts. The system is non-adversarial and the court in Italy is much more empowered than a US style jury (in fact in Italy it is not a jury but a Court, can ask questions, decide on various points, review all what necessary and require/admit expert opinions, witnesses etc.). In addition - this is most important and not so easy to grasp if not familiar with the system - the fact the Court writes the verdict motivations and must make sense otherwise verdict is made invalid by the higher court changes everything and makes the prosecutor less relevant than in a different system. Court can disbelieve what a prosecutor says and convict for other reasons or change completely the penalty from what asked. When facts emerged in a trial are so numerous as in this case (facts of any kind, positive or negative for the accused, witnesses, dna, forensics etc.) prosecutor is even less relevant. In addition, the character of the prosecutor and the influence such character can have on the Court is hugely less relevant than in the adversarial system where most of the representation ends up a fight between the two stars prosecutor and defence lawyer. This consideration is also valid for the defence lawyer: he/she is less relevant. In Italy the public often hardly knows a prosecutor's name and there are no movies on prosecutors. Prosecutors very rarely end up in politics (there are only 2 exceptions in history, 1 important 1 less so) as they are magistrates as the judges so in a fully independent body. They are much less "starry" than in the US where many famous prosecutors go into politics and organise their career and actions with this goal in mind.
http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=310&p=...

Mignini is only one of several individuals involved with the prosecution of the case. And, due to the intricacies of Italian law, the opinions and judgements of the judges (and presidents of the courts) carry a lot of weight in the trial.
Mignini and his possible failings (none of which are relevant to the Meredith Kercher murder case) are entirely a straw man erected by the FOA.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 03:10 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Yes, it's non-adversarial. It's based on the practices of the Inquisition instead.
Edited on Tue Sep-27-11 03:16 AM by pnwmom
Not a great system, at least based on the peek that we've had here.

Just one example; the original judge, Massei, refused to allow the defense to examine the raw data files that the police lab relied on to make their claims about finding Meredith's DNA on the kitchen knife and Raffaele's on the bra clasp. He said it wasn't necessary. It was only in the appeals trial that the new judge, Hellman, appointed forensic experts from the University of Rome to examine the data. And their scathing report completely discredited the police lab's work. In the U.S., the original DNA results would now be thrown out. In Italy's non-adversarial system, the jurors will have to decide themselves whether to believe the police lab or the independent forensic experts appointed by the judge.
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polly7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. It doesn't seem any less fair than any other system.
Defendants get a defense, a trial and an appeal. I don't get your Inquisition comparison.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. It doesn't seem unfair to you that fully half of convictions turn out to be wrong?
Should that many people have to spend years in jail for false convictions?
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polly7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 03:39 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. They're judges, not jurors as we have here, and I'm sure they've had to deliberate
over forensic evidence many times before. Are you saying they won't be fair about it? What on earth does Italy have to gain by purposefully wrongly convicting an American woman?
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. No, there are two actual judges and several other lay judges.
Edited on Tue Sep-27-11 04:14 AM by pnwmom
And the lay judges only need to have a high school education. They are more like jurors, although they are much more under the direction of the two professional judges than jurors are here.

The tabloids had plenty to gain from their scandalous stories about the crime. The sex/cult/murder theory, the theme of the Angel/Devil Amanda sold a lot more papers than an ordinary murder by a burglar with a knife. But the judges/jurors not only were not sequestered to protect them from this kind of influence -- they were encouraged to inform themselves about the case through the media. Does that sound fair to you?

Does it seem fair to you that the first judge wouldn't allow the defense to examine the raw DNA files?
Does it seem fair to you that Amanda wasn't allowed an attorney or impartial translator during her interrogation?
Does it seem fair to you that the police did not videotape the several days of interrogation, even though that is required by Italian law -- and even though the equipment was available and functioning. (They used it for other purposes during that same time period.) Does it seem fair to you that they never even provided transcripts of the interrogations?
Does it seem fair to you that the police "accidentally" destroyed four different computer drives that could have supported the students alibis -- and that the judges have refused to allow the computers to be examined by experts who might be able to restore them?

Does it seem fair to you that prosecutor Mignini announced that the case was closed five days after the murder -- a few weeks before the fingerprints results came back clearly identifying Rudy Guede in the bloody trail he left in Meredith's room?

None of this seems fair to me.


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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #21
30. Mignini is no straw man. He spent Friday ripping Amanda apart
Edited on Tue Sep-27-11 04:24 AM by pnwmom
in front of the judges/jurors, describing her as a Nazi, among other things. Those lay judges could very well be influenced by him, as well as the gory pictures the defense displayed today.
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Whats_Happening Donating Member (71 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Well, as I said, I know you've followed the case more than I have --
So I actually do appreciate your information. I know there are at least some points to be made in her defense.

One point though -- you say "It is crazy to think that smoking some pot would have suddenly caused her -- hearing Meredith being attacked by Guede in the next room -- to say to her boyfriend 'let's go attack her, too!'" -- Well, that makes a lot of sense. But wasn't pot-smoking also an equally ridiculous excuse on the part of the defense? Didn't they claim that the suspects couldn't remember what happened at points because they had been "smoking some pot?" Pot is not alcohol -- it doesn't lead to blackouts!

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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 03:19 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Amanda and Raffaele were never claiming blackouts.
What they weren't sure of were the exact times of phone calls to their parents, the exact times they ate dinner -- stuff like that, that anyone might have trouble reconstructing the next day, but especially if they were under the influence.

A good site if you want to know more:

www.injusticeinperugia.org
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