Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

If drilling domestically for oil/gas could create a whole lot of jobs would we be for it?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU
 
dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 11:27 PM
Original message
If drilling domestically for oil/gas could create a whole lot of jobs would we be for it?
I'm beginning to think that even if we don't drill here, it's not like someone wouldn't drill somewhere else and that we wouldn't use the same amount of fossil fuels anyway.

Is there not hypocrisy involved expecting other countries to take the environmental damage for the oil we insist on using at a low price and as we wish?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think another question needs to be asked.... Why not invest in more sustainable energy that
will create new jobs?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
holdencaufield Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Suggestions? NT
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SugarShack Donating Member (979 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. All gov buildings in Germany have been solar powered for over 30 yrs now. Start there for now.
lots of jobs there....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
holdencaufield Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Solar Panels...
...controllers, inverters, and most of the components are made in China. I'm not sure how this equates to American jobs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SugarShack Donating Member (979 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. Oh my then this means we can't manufacture what China does? oh darn!
you're like children. Import fees on certain items is not a bad thing. Especially if we are "outfitting" our country, Maybe if the air and heat bills were not so high in government bldge they could hire more. Crap, my sister is doing the job that three used to do...she is wiped out!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. Make them here. Give tax incentives to corporations who will
do that.

I know, sounds so easy, right? I have no idea what actually accomplishing that would entail. But that's what I'd like to SEE happen.

I just don't like the idea of any more drilling or mining.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
holdencaufield Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #18
26. Solyndra NT
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. Happened at almost exactly the WORST possible moment in our current economy. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
holdencaufield Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. But it had to happen...
...the US just isn't capable of competing on price-points with manufacture of solar infrastructure in China. Going green is a great idea -- BUT it doesn't create "Green American Jobs".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #33
43. Yes. Timing is sooo important. I suppose it's too much to hope to see a national
manufacturing policy (something like Germany has . . .?) that helps stake holders deal with this sort of question.

That would be worth something from Labor too!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 06:30 AM
Response to Reply #18
35. Fuck tax incentives...
give GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS to corporations who will do it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. Yes! You're right! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. That was my question ages ago but it's just not happening.
Obama didn't do anything to help spur demand and there's nothing I see down the road. I think he kind of blew it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JustAnotherGen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
41. Amen
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'm pretty sure that drilling is going on all over the country.
It's never stopped in Oklahoma, Texas, and New Mexico. They drill in Kansas, Louisiana, and Illinois, too. There are oil fields opening in North Dakota, from what I've heard, and they continue to drill in California, both coastally and inland.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
6. If making Zyklon B created a lot of jobs......?
Hell no. We need to move on to new energy technologies. Oil is literally killing us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
8. Ah, the owl versus the logger.
Haven't we done this before?

Maybe it's time to look up the chain. Squint passed the shower being trickled down upon us.





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
9. I hate to break it to you but already are drilling for oil and gas here.
Not sure what fields out there you think we aren't drilling. Sure there little finds sprinkled through the country but we have zero fields within the borders of this country that could remotely meet the absurd amounts of oil we use.

For what it's worth, I work in the largest oil field in the US. Prudhoe Bay Alaska.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #9
19. I'm not thinking of replacing foreign sources, just creating what jobs we can.
What about the Bakken shale?

Halliburton hiring thousands to work in N.D. oil fields
Date: Friday, August 26, 2011, 6:40am CDT - Last Modified: Friday, August 26, 2011, 6:49am CDT

Halliburton plans to hire 11,000 employees this year and send most of them to the Bakken Shale in North Dakota, which is turning out to be one of the most important oil finds in U.S. history.

Jim Brown, the Western Hemisphere president for Halliburton, revealed the company's plans to CNBC's Jim Cramer, who was broadcasting from the Bakken Shale, the Houston Business Journal reports.

Halliburton will hire employees for multiple job types, from people with MBAs to engineers to unskilled workers, Brown said.

If you have a willingness to work and an aptitude to learn with a high school education, within a year and a half to two years, you can become a front-line supervisor. That job will pay $125,000 to $130,000 a year, Brown told Cramer. What were doing here, were replicating across the nation.

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/morning_roundup/2...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #19
37. "a frontline supervisor"? Uh, what made up position is that.
The fact is there is only so many drilling rigs and support equipment out there. Almost all of it is being used.

I hate tell you this but this article is sheer oil company propaganda. I read it daily. This is just for the people who don't know anything about the oilfield. They promise jobs for everyone, money flowing out your pockets, but wierdly, it never materializes.

Also, Halliburton is one of the lowest paying companies in the field, the only way you would make that type of money is if you work twenty-four seven, three sixty five.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
10. If lead in paint, drinking water and gasoline would create more jobs - would you be for it?
China's just going to do it, so why shouldn't we?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. If making DDT legal again would create more jobs - would you be for it?
I mean China and India and Africa are just going to use it anyway. Fair's fair.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. If deregulating the banking industry would create more jobs - would you be for it?
I mean republicans are just going to do it anyway, what's the harm?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. If requiring everyone to carry a gun made us all safer - would you be for it?
I mean criminals and psychopaths are just going to carry them anyway.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. If giving Wall Street CEOs huge bailouts of tax payer cash created jobs - would you be for it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. If allowing corps to dump toxic materials into atmosphere created more jobs - would you be for it?
China and India is just going to do it anyway.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. If sending more jobs to India and China created more jobs.... hey, wait a minute....
IF WE STOPPED SENDING JOBS TO CHINA AND INDIA WE WOULD CREATE MORE JOBS THAN ALL THAT OTHER SHIT COMBINED!

Finally, a realistic solution to our economic crisis.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lucian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
13. Absolutely...
Edited on Sun Sep-18-11 11:55 PM by Lucian
not.

We should invest in alternative energy, like solar or wind power. Once we start accepting those, then jobs will be created because wind generators and solar panels need to be built and installed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. So why didn't it work under Obama?
I had high hopes but they are pretty much splattered now. And with two US solar companies failing...seriously WTH?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FarLeftFist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
20. But it doesn't create a 'whole lot of jobs'.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. 70,000 in North Dakota?
North Dakota State University estimates the oil workforce has gone from just over 5,000 in 2005 to over 18,000 in 2009.

Hamm said the industry now employs 30,000 in the state, and if production does hit a million barrels a day, it could employ over 100,000 people there.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/04/news/economy/oil_shale_...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #25
38. 70,00 people to produce a million BPD?
Edited on Mon Sep-19-11 09:31 AM by Arctic Dave
Those numbers are waaaaay full of shit. 70,000 people to pruduce that much of oil wouldn't pencil out unless they all made minimum wage. We produce 500,000 barrels a day and we do it with 5,000 people. Like I said more oil company propaganda. Nice try though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FarLeftFist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #25
40. Riiiiight. Just what we need "70,000" more people raping the Earth.
We don't have a demand problem, what's the rush to destroy the environment?!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
napoleon_in_rags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
23. Its a devil's trade we don't need to make. Creating jobs is easy in a sense.
First, on the drilling. The info that's coming out is saying that getting at the new oil is making a bigger and bigger mess for future generations to clean up, and that's basically the thinking we need to be getting away from, whether its leaving them land that's dirty and stripped of resources or a mountain of debt to China. The questions we need to be asking are are how can we start to a lay a foundation of something that's really useful to them, like our grandparents did for us. That pushes us in two directions 1) renewable energy infrastructure 2) REALLY smart fossil fuel usage. (holy grail is still hydrocarbon combustion that outputs valuable carbon based product instead of C02, totally scientifically possible) We need to move toward a position where something like a carbon sequestration break through can be instantly harnessed, and that means getting real about electric cars, even if gasoline is turning the turbines to charge them.

On jobs, I keep remembering this FDR speech. We (Dems) look at him as this great leader, but in some ways he had any EASY task in ending the great depression. He said it in a speech I am too lazy to find, but wildly paraphrasing:

"I see unemployed with no income who can't eat, I see employers, farmers afraid to hire workers to grow food because they fear nobody will have any money to buy it. Yet there is no shortage of good land to grow food, no shortage of shovels or hoes, and no shortage of good men to work the fields and grow the food, and if these men were paid to do so, there would be no shortage of income for the farmers who paid them when selling that food"

So the situation was easy, there was limitless potential for production with people scared and sitting on their hands. FDR knew he could do anything. He could print money of thin air if that was what it took to get the workers in the fields growing food, and the real value they added to the economy from the food would validate the previously fake currency. He understood the capitalist illusion, the rich don't produce anything, they get people to produce for themselves and hand the fruits of their own labor back to them, charging a fee for the privilege. So the answer to the jobs crisis was simple, you get people working on producing economic value in the name of any currency you want, and the fruits of their labor will prop up the currency.

But notice an important part of what FDR said: no shortage of land, hoes, men. When there is a real shortage of oil, or land, that's a real DEPRESSION like we haven't seen before, the Great Depression was an irrational snit in comparison. So resource issues trump perception based economic issues in every way. Burning the last resources of future generations and leaving them a weird, hyper polluted debt slavery state because America needed to get out its latest snit is simply not tolerable.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
24. Declaring war on China would probably "create" a "whole lot of jobs"
But still not a good idea in the long run.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
27. Deep water drilling was supposed to create 100,000 jobs and
boost the economy.

This is not counting the people employed part-time to mop up after oil spill disasters.

Fracking is even more dangerous than deep water drilling with the ability to destroy entire aquifers with highly toxic solvents and lubricants.

'Fracking' Pollution In Water: Pennsylvania Allows Natural Gas Drilling Waste Disposal In Waterways

DAVID B. CARUSO 01/ 3/11 10:32 PM AP

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/03/fracking-pollu...

It wouldn't surprise me at all to hear Obama announce this as a great plan for the economy. Along with cutting social security and medicare.

God help us all with the republicans running the democratic party.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
28. If we're going to go down that road, just start another war.
Tried and true.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. Yep - three wars and 100,000+ slaughtered to secure oil in middle east
Edited on Mon Sep-19-11 01:12 AM by scentopine
and trashed the Gulf of Mexico with exploding oil rigs and Japan has exploding nuke plants, three mile island almost melted down - and now what - we are supposed to fuck up all the ground water with fracking chemicals?

I guess that would make our planetary destruction complete - nuclear radiation, oil pollution, smog and poisoned ground water.

Jesus - what sort of democrat comes up with these shitty ideas?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
raouldukelives Donating Member (945 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
29. I think clearly at this point the writing is on the wall
for climate change. Continuing to consume massive amounts of fossil fuels at this point is just thumbing your nose at future generations. So sure, the USA would be all for it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
32. ONLY in exchange for equal & rigourous longitudinal commitments to ALTERNATIVES.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 04:38 AM
Response to Original message
34. NO. All you have to do is build a bunch of windmills and electric cars. Wind is cheaper than oil to
run cars on, at about 1/10 the cost.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
theophilus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
36. If we could eat for free by cutting off and cooking our left leg would we do it? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
42. This will answer your question definitively:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Sep 18th 2014, 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC