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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 10:20 PM
Original message
It breaks my heart that Democrats are "stupid" too...
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Unreal compared to today's corporate tools.
That includes them all.
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brewens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
75. Medicare and Social Security: Everyone Gets IT, Or Nobody Gets IT!
The latest t-shirt I suggested my girlfriend design. Wake up retired people. You are not grandfathered into anything!

They start taking money out of peoples checks for some garbage voucher plan, or try and tell us we have to work until we're 70, the shit hits the fan! Fix things right or end it. These old people that voted teabagger last election need to be made to understand those are the options.
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Butch350 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #75
90. So what are you doing here - GO TELL THEM...
Oh yeah, you'll be OLD someday too.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. Not seeing anyone in the Dem party who wants to "abolish" any of that, though.
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Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. "attempt" to abolish
One step at a time.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I don't think anyone in the Dem party is "attempting" to abolish, either.
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Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. The Dems put SS on the table back in July
Ignore that gesture at your (all of our) peril.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I don't confuse changes and even cuts with abolishment. When Democrats
announce plans to phase out or end SS, we will talk. Republicans are already speaking that language, BTW.
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Thank you, TwilightGardener. Some people scream "the sky is falling!" when it drizzles. eom
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #16
28. And some say 'come into my room, little one, it is safe and warm'
then slit you up a treat. Some will lead you calmly to the ovens saying smiling all the way. Some will do that. Lie, cheat and even destroy others to maintain a status quo which serves them. Some people do that.
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 03:44 AM
Response to Reply #28
105. And some are just petty defeatists or a Badluck Schleprock
in heart and soul.

And then there are some who live in reality.
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uncle ray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #28
119. lead us to the ovens? jeezus, this is getting absurd.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #16
33. Don't "drizzle" on me,
and tell me it is raining.
Death by a Thousand Cuts to Social Security.

Social Security used to be an inviolate cornerstone of the Democratic Party.
NOW, the "Centrists" have turned it into a Bargaining Chip.


You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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andlor Donating Member (300 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #33
59. +1
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Myrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #33
74. +1000000
n/t
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #33
88. ++
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #33
101. +1000. n/t
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #33
106. The ONLY way to preserve Social Security
is to ensure more jobs to pay for it. The ONLY way to get a jobs bill going, is via Congress. Remember what Congress we have today, where there are more Republicans and RepubliDems than ever before in history.

The President has no influence here. It's all in the Legislative branch, but as polls show, although the American people give low points to Congress, they don't want to change their Senators and Reps.

Until that changes, all safety net programs will be under attack and the American people will get what they voted for.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 04:31 AM
Response to Reply #106
108. There's not a thing wrong with social security, it has a huge surplus for 25 years
So why is it being discussed in connection with the budget and deficit talks, neither of which it has anything to do with?

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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #108
115. Yes, it has a $2.5 trillion dollar surplus - thanks to undocumented workers!
No thanks to Congress that continues to "borrow" from it ever since Reagan.

It, together with Medicare, was put on the table in order to get the Republicans to agree to putting raising taxes on the table. No one in their right mind believed social security and Medicare were in any danger of being scrapped simply because Republicans would never agree to raising taxes. Period.

But social security and Medicare do need a few tweaks here and there to make them work better. For social security, we need to remove the cap. Wealthy people like the McCains, only paid three months of the year into it while drawing 12 months of it now. That's wrong. The cap needs to be removed.

Medicare could be tweaked by allowing the program to negotiate lower prices for prescription drugs. Currently, they're forced to pay full price, and it's bankrupting the program forcing it to cut drugs and care.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #106
109. "The President has no influence here"
WOW.
What country do YOU live in,
because in the USA The President is the HEAD of an entire Political Party,
and ALL of the resources and funds available to that Political Party.
He can (and does) use those resources to put pressure of Party members in Congress who don't go along with his programs,
and has a great deal of influence over the legislation offered up by his Party in Congress.

For Instance, in the Arkansas Democratic Primary 2010, where Universal Health Care advocates and The national Unions coordinated to run a Pro-Labor/Pro-healthcare challenger (Democratic Lt. Governor Bill Halter) against virulently anti-LABOR Blanche Lincoln ,
the White House went ALL OUT to protect Blanche Lincoln, who had crowed about derailing the Public Option.
The White House gave Poor Blanche access to Party funds,
and even sent the Old Dog back down to Arkansas to rescue Conservative Blue Dog Blanche Lincoln's failing campaign.

Progressive Democrats like Alan Grayson and Russ Feingold were left on their own.
To add insult to injury, an "anonymous White House Spokesman" ridiculed the Unions for "Wasting 10 Million Dollars in ASrkansas" by supporting a Pro-LABOR candidate in the Arkansas Primary.
SEE!
THAT is only ONE way that a President can influence Congress.
The MESSAGE is very clear.

The HEAD of the Democratic Party has a great deal of influence over where the DNC, DCCC and DSCC spend money:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...



This is ANOTHER way the President can influence Congress:
The DLC New Team
Progressives Need NOT Apply

(Screen Capped from the DLC Website)
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=254886&kaid=86...
After sending a message like ^THIS^,
Congress KNOWS which row to hoe if they want access to the White House.

Presidents often make offers that can't be refused to individual Congressmen.
Don't forget Dennis Kucinich's personal ride on Air Force One.
Before the ride, DK pledged he would NOT vote for the President's Health Care Plan.
After the Ride, DK lined up with the rest of the President's Party.


So saying that The President doesn't have any influence over Congress is just pure bullshit,
though it is a bullshit excuse that is offered up on DU frequently to explain the President's lurch to the Right.
The more valid explanation for the President's lurch to The Right is that That is the Way He Wants to Go.

The apologists here are pushing "the President is WEAK and has NO POWER" meme.
Not only is that UNTRUE, it is a TERRIBLE Marketing Plan for 2012.

Obama 2012!
because its not my fault.

....thats not going to play well.

THIS is what American people will buy:

Leadership! "The Buck Stops HERE!" NO Excuses!


You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #109
113. So you hate Obama. No surprise there. But tell me, instead of whining, who would you
want to see run against him?

Whining is easy. Presenting a viable solution is the hard part.

And I was referring to the power the President holds over legislation. Yeah, you can trump up a LOT of bullshit that makes it appear as if the President has power "behind the scenes", but I can equally provide instances where he clearly has FAR LESS power than you appear to attribute to him.

Here's one: In June 2010, the President urged Congressional Democrats to quickly pass new legislation to extend the unemployment benefits. What happened? Democrats stalled, stalled, stalled until December 2010...and then the tax cuts for the rich (which includes MANY Democrats) was put forward as a condition. Either vote Yea or the unemployed could say buh-bye to their unemployment checks right before Christmas. Ultra-leftists believed he should have called their bluff and allowed all tax cuts to expire because I'm sure the unemployed could afford it. Besides, we needed to make a point, right? The unemployed would understand, even forgive. Yeah, right.

But I've read enough of your posts to know you loathe President Obama in a way that I've only seen on the other side. Tell me, bvar22, who do you believe should be elected in 2012 as President, and will that person you choose be able to work with the elitists on both sides of the aisle in Congress and get all the Progressive policies through to make you happy?

As for where I live? It's called the REAL world. Try it sometime.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #113
118. Those who insist that THEY "Live in the Real World"...don't.
It is not a valid argument.

I don't "hate" or "loathe" President Obama.
I actually like the MAN, and admire his family.
I have NEVER attacked him personally (like you just did to me),
but have ALWAYS directed any criticism toward policy, and positions that allow the implementation of Conservative Policy. It is not MY fault that this administration, in "seeking bi-partisan consensus" has lurched WAY to the right of where a Democratic President with a Mandate for Change should be STANDING.

Pushing FOR Cuts in Government Spending and De-Funding the Safety Net during a Recession
IS STANDARD REPUBLICAN DOGMA. I don't support it because I'm a DEMOCRAT,
and that is only ONE example.

The only "hate" and Loathing I see here is coming from YOU.
You don't live "in the REAL World".
You live in your own little world.

I DO believe that "Centrism", "triangulation", and "Seeking Bi-Partisan (Republican) Approval has been very destructive to the traditional goals of the Democratic Party,
and has damaged the Democratic Party Brand, but THAT didn't get started with president Obama.
He is simply the guy riding the "Centrist" horse today.

My problem with "Centrists" is that they agree with Republicans 1/2 the time,
and I am a 100% FDR/LBJ DEMOCRAT.
I can't support Republican Policy no matter WHO is pushing it,
and THAT is MY "Real World" of Working Class Americans for which I have been fighting for over 44 years when I joined the Party of FDR/LBJ.

So you can take your little hate filled personal attack,
and keep it in your own vile little world.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone


photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed



Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #106
112. The president is the one who put Social Security & Medicare on the table
he has plenty of influence here.
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #112
114. He can put whatever he wants on the table. Congress, ultimately, has the final say
as we've seen with the Public Option. When President Obama was out there campaigning for the Public Option, I didn't see a single Democrat get their mugs on any show or in public to campaign for it. Result? It was scrapped.

So much for influence.

And by the by? The President never said he'd cut benefits to recipients. In fact, he promised he wouldn't. Again, and again, and again. And he only offered to put social security and Medicare on the table, with no specifics, so that Republicans would consider putting raising taxes on the table.

He knew they'd reject it. So Social Security and Medicare were never in any danger although I do believe social security should be tweaked, as in, removing the cap - something the President is also for. Also, Medicare should be tweaked, allowing them to negotiate prices on medicine to save on costs. Could it be he meant these changes? I think so. And are these not sound, reasonable changes? Yes.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #114
117. No. The President has the "ultimate" Say-So.
He has to sign off on everything the Congress does,
or it doesn't happen.
He OWNS The VETO.
Every single thing Congress does MUST have President Obama's name on it.

The President also has the power the power of Executive Orders.
As we recently observed, he can start entire NEW Wars without consulting Congress,
or reverse EPA Pollution Standards all by himself.
He sets the guidelines for the Justice Department,
and can decide to let War Criminals and War Profiteers escape justice, and Congress can't lift a finger.

The President IS the most POWERFUL individual in the Free World,
and yet you would have us believe that he is just a puppet of Congress,
and can't act on his own.

Why are you working so hard to make Obama appear so weak and powerless?
Most of us here KNOW better.
If he IS so weak,
why should anyone vote for him again? :shrug:

Terrible Marketing.
Worst Campaign Strategy EVER.


You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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florida08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #33
110. damn skippy
this is what POTUS should be screaming..but I'm glad you did
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Aaria Donating Member (238 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
67. I seem to remember something about a camel getting his nose under the edge of the tent.
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #67
107. I'm happy for you. eom
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #16
79. It is up to the President and Democratic legislators
to make it clear where they stand in regard to social security and medicare and include no questionable wiggle words.
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #13
25. Come on! Everything has to start some where even abolishment.
Putting these things on the table is that beginning. Don't be silly.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #13
32. The "Democrats" won't be "announcing" their intentions,
They WILL use Stealth methods like the "Payroll Tax Holiday",
and Death by a Thousand Cuts.

Go check the DLC/PPI Websites pre-2006,
where these same "Democrats" were very clear about their intention to "Privatize" Social Security.
"Privatize" = Give the Money to Wall Street Banks.


Payroll Tax Holiday Directly Connects Social Security to The Deficit


You can "wait for the announcement",
but I'm going to do everything I can to cover my ass.
The last 30 years have taught me a lot.


You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
51. There should not even be a mention of 'cutting SS' by any
Democrat, ever. For one thing, no politician has the right to 'cut' benefits from the People's Fund which is totally separate from the Fed. Govt's fund and EVERY DEMOCRAT knows this.

Aside from the stupidity of even tying SS to the deficit, to actually cut benefits will INCREASE the deficit.

President Obama put SS on the table without the Republicans even asking for it. That is a first for a Democrat and has shaken the confidence of millions of people in this president wrt to doing the job he was elected to do, protect SS from the decades-long attacks by the rightwing. He has signaled, not just with his offer to Boehner, which was thankfully turned down, but in his speech at the G8 Conference in 2010.

This is not the action of a true Democrat and it cannot be spun. He did it, he said it. Stop defending it, or it is likely to happen which would be a travesty and definitely the end of his presidency.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
73. The door is now opened wide: repugs will abolish with delicious relish at the drop of a
hat now that the genie has been let out of the bottle. :patriot:
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daleanime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
89. When you bleed to death....
it doesn't matter how many cuts you had. :banghead:
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #13
94. Thank you for saying that
The rhetoric that comes out of here is ridiculous.
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KelleyKramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #11
41. That was NOT a Dem, it was Obama

Obama put SS cuts on the table
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #41
102. *smack*
It never hurts to remind them. :)
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. NO just "reform" it and make "adjustments", right "twilight"?
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Are these programs static? Nothing stays the same. I wish they would
get bigger and more generous with each passing year and generation, but I don't see that happening.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
52. The only reason you don't 'see that happening' is because you do
not want to face the facts that it is not only possible, it WILL happen, IF we do not allow rightwing lies to prevail.

Do you even understand how SS works? It's a shame to see that people will believe something coming from a democrat that for decades they rejected when the same lies were told by Republicans.

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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #17
34. Isn't raising the CAP an adjustment?
you can't demand a change to something if you also won't "put it on the table".

And as for that phrase ... "put it on the table" ... its time to wake up.

Social Security exists.

The GOP hates it and they actually want to abolish it.

Given that, it is ALWAYS on the table.

It was on the table when Bush tried to privatize it.

It was on the table when turning it into a voucher system passed the House in Ryan's plan. Which you might recall, the media called "Bold".

All of this crying about "Obama put SS on the table" is nonsense.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #34
81. "All of this crying about "Obama put SS on the table" is nonsense."
You characterize it as crying? It is life and death for millions of Americans. You will hear real crying.

Nonsense? Obama created the Bowles-Simpson deficit Commission. He placed two anti-New Deal zealots at the head of the Commission.

I think you need to re-evaluate your position. Help us by calling the President and writing the President. Tell him he will lose the election for certain unless his position is clearly on the side of "the people".

Read what Eisenhower said.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
78. Then you have your head buried up to your neck.
I suggest you write the President and beg him to make a clear distinction on social security and medicare. Do it before it is too late because time is running short.
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
45. No, lets dont fucking abolish it, that would be immoral....lets just
make it so that NO ONE can live off of it OR no one can use it until they fucking die. Yeah, thats the ticket. :mad:
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
48. Right. It is Republicans that do that.
Answer: elect fewer Republicans. Giving them a pass on this is insane. Yet I see it over and over.
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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #48
98. Answer: elect fewer Republicans.
starting with Obama

RL
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
50. What do you have as your basis of thinking
and why did Obama put social security "reform" on the table without asking when it doesn't, by law, contribute to deficits?
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MsPithy Donating Member (325 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
58. "Abolish," and BARGAIN AWAY are different
in terminology only! The result is exactly the same.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
68. Obama wants to cut the payroll tax revenue.
That will force cuts Social Security and Medicare.

It is just a round-about way to accomplish it.

Then he also wants to cut the COLAs -- which is a direct cut to Social Security. And the cuts to the COLAs are quite likely to be felt most severely by the very elderly during a period of severe inflation (which quite a few economists predict although not in the immediate future).

Obama talks out of both sides of him mouth about things he should not be talking about at all.

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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
77. Last election the GOP successfully convinced seniors
that "Obamacare" removed 500 billion from medicare. Why didn't my party fight back against these accusations?

Why are the Democrats, and most notably the President, continually using wiggle words in regard to social security and medicare? Why is the President promoting raising the medicare eligibility age to 67? Why did he create the Bowles-Simpson Commission to begin with?

If the Democratic Party doesn't defend every single aspect of organized labor rights, the environment, social security and medicare, and not give one inch, they are finished. They will no longer serve any legitimate purpose. Any Democrat that proposes we compromise on these issues is no REAL Democrat.

That is my line in the sand.
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NCarolinawoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #77
99. I couldn't have said it better!
:applause:


The Democrats are fast on their way to standing for NOTHING!!!
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #99
116. I'm very happy to share that with you.
My BIL and SIL live in N.C. And also their children and grandchildren. Unfortunately they are politically religious right and Republican. Otherwise they are dear dear people.

:fistbump: :hi:
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FarLeftFist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
5. No Dem is doing such thing. But this is an awesome post to show how twisted the GOP is today.
No Dem would dare mutter the words ABOLISH to those things.
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. if they blow it and lose the next election
then what?
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FarLeftFist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. What do you mean? Then what what?
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I am worried
very worried, seems as though the rug has been swept out from under us
every day, we seem to lose more of ourselves

take a look at this:
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FarLeftFist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Oh I'm with you on that sister!
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on point Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #12
46. Thanks for the great graph!! Only part missing is
the future projection part where the worker serfs decide enough is enough and take up pitch forks and take back the wealth stolen from them.

These fools on the right do not realize what a situation they are setting themselves up for in the future. Of course they don't know history any more than they know science or economics. Otherwise they would realize that when you break the social contract with isuch oppression and greed the result is violent revolution and the wealthy not only do not get to keep their gains, they seldom get to keep their lives.

I sincerely hope we never come to this, but their blindness is starting to push the country to the edge.
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
62. Wow. I want that pre-Reagan growth. It looks like as
productivity went up, so did compensation.

You would think O would model is presidency using one of the presidents from 1947-79. That is, if he were working for the middle class and working poor.
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blackspade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
69. Nice chart, Saved!
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Pooka Fey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #12
72. + 1
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Bryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
96. Thanks for that
K&R
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
61. Well,
let's not let them lose the the next election!
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Abolishment needs to have a first step. We've taken it.










The orange mambo was the wanker. Ledo's was the giveaway.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
35. We did?
When?
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. We did, indeed. It happened when a Democratic President said it was okay to put SS on the table.
That would be President Obama who is the first president since FDR to say it was okay to make cuts in SS and other parts of the social safety net.














The orange mambo was the wankie wanker. Ledo's was the giveaway.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #37
49. Abolishment was not put on the table
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. The ridiculous notion that a Democrat believes s/he has the right
to 'cut' benefits from a fund that belongs to the people, was 'put on the table' and thankfully rejected by Boehner. Even he knows better than that apparently. What a betrayal of Democratic principles this is. Why are you supporting it? The SS fund is not part of the Fed Govt's budget. It has no business even being mentioned in this debate. It is solvent. It has no problems. The Fed Govt has problems. Do you even understand what you are defending?
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CarmanK Donating Member (459 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. The DEMS just don't call the TBAGGERS stupid!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
9. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
15. Did you think when Bush the Idiot had a +90% approval rating that was made up of all Republicans?
Realized I was surrounded by stupids a long time ago. More than 9 out of 10 people we see walking down the street are susceptible to the stupid.

Comforting thought isn't it?

Don

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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. Yes, I remember that 90% approval rating just after 9/11 happened. I
was shocked to see those numbers in almost all the polls. I really felt like an outsider back then - an outsider in my own party.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Bush's approval numbers stayed anywhere from 91% to 71% for 16 fucking months
after he stood on a mount with a bullhorn.

But he was a good ol' boy.....
so it was all kewl! :patriot:
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #24
55. Makes you wonder if anyone should believe a single poll out there
about President Obama who never achieved anything that high.

As much as some here and elsewhere, tout polls as accurately showing the mood of the electorate, I wonder how many of them know polls aren't free. They're paid for by special interest groups to influence the opinion of the voting public - always, strangely enough, in favor of ultimate corporate power and rule.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #55
63. And the polls about Ronald Reagan's "popularity"?
For eight years, I had to read articles about how Ronald Reagan was the most popular president since World War II.

It was only after he was out of office that the New York Times admitted that the polls were cooked and that Reagan and Carter were about equally as popular.
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #63
103. I haven't read that anywhere, but it doesn't surprise me.
I just went by the polls conducted for Palin as governor (90% approval?? Really??) and then it was discovered that the man who did the polling was a fanatic supporter of the half-Gov. It was then when I began reading more and more about polls and how easily they can be skewed to say whatever the buyer want them to say.

I have lost all faith in polls no matter where they come from. I believe it's the healthiest, most sane thing to do.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #15
39. Just think, that was the nationwide average..
Where I live everybody loved Bush, the carrier landing was the greatest stunt in the history of presidentin'.

It was really easy to get a creepy feeling like Invasion of the Body Snatchers stuff, when it's impossible to find someone around you who seems connected to reality in a very basic way it's quite disconcerting.



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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. DU was the only place I found a few people who seemed connected to reality back then
Thank you for being one of them and still around here. Still have a few other 10 percenters(as we called ourselves back then), left here but I think most of them are gone now for one reason or another and have been replaced by ... I'll just leave it at replaced.

Don
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #40
57. I hear ya, Don. I'm shocked it's changed
so much around here, and I felt this overwhelming need to leave, too. But call it nostalgia, I couldn't bring myself to. It was here where I found solace during the LONG Bush years even though this place has changed so dramatically, and not for the better.
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #57
92. Yeah, I'm not sure how much I'll be here next year, it's going to get crazy. nt
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 03:42 AM
Response to Reply #92
104. No doubt about it. eom
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frogmarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
20. The Presidential Papers of Dwight David Eisenhower
http://www.eisenhowermemorial.org/presidential-papers/f...

Excerpt:

Now it is true that I believe this country is following a dangerous trend when it permits too great a degree of centralization of governmental functions. I oppose this--in some instances the fight is a rather desperate one. But to attain any success it is quite clear that the Federal government cannot avoid or escape responsibilities which the mass of the people firmly believe should be undertaken by it. The political processes of our country are such that if a rule of reason is not applied in this effort, we will lose everything--even to a possible and drastic change in the Constitution. This is what I mean by my constant insistence upon "moderation" in government. Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas.5 Their number is negligible and they are stupid.


Note: H.L. Hunt was a Texas oil tycoon and conservative activist.
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Note on H.L. Hunt
Like old man Koch, he also had two idiot sons with more money than brains. They tried to corner the silver market back in the '80s and ended up a lot poorer for it.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
22. Obama is so much to the right of Eisenhower, it's not even funny.
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Sadie5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #22
54. I don't see that at all
Where are you coming from saying this. Get your story straight. I would like to hear your take on Obama being right of Eisenhower. There are other boards to post this kind of stuff.
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Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #54
65. Contrast Ike's comments on SS/UI with Obama's
putting SS on the table as part of "deficit" cuts (noting that SS has NOTHING to do with the deficit).

That would be "to the right" of Ike. Even Nixon didn't dare go there...
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #54
100. ugly and uncalled for
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
26. I'm all for eliminating farm programs that benefit corporate farms
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
27. And Yet, Republicans Are Still Winning Offices? What's Up With That?
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dmosh42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Combination of 'dumb' and rigged elections!
Since most election districts have gone electronic, hackers have proven how they can rig machines, especially when you know election to be close. I think only Washington and Oregon(maybe) have a paper trail for recounts through mail ballots.
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Sadie5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #27
56. Repubs in Democratic clothing
is what I see as the problem. Some of these democrats who are getting elected were Rebubs who have changed their voter registration to Democratic so they can run as a Democrat. It is an old Repub trick that works until the pole cat gets in office and preforms poorly.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
30. It sucks when you can often quote republican Presidents to show how
pro-corporation and conservative your Democratic President is.

And to outline how far the Democratic party has swung to the right as well.
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Buns_of_Fire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
31. Needless to say, in today's TeaPublican Party, Eisenhower would be considered
a leftist, bedwetting, commie pinko.

So would Lincoln, for that matter.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
36. Harry Truman agreed with Dwight.

"I've seen it happen time after time. When the Democratic candidate allows himself to be put on the defensive and starts apologizing for the New Deal and the Fair Deal, and says he really doesn't believe in them, he is sure to lose. The people don't want a phony Democrat. If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat, and I don't want any phony Democratic candidates in this campaign."

---President Harry Truman
QED:2010


Leadership! "The Buck Stops HERE!" NO Excuses!



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their promises.

Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #36
64. Right on. I can see why Dean liked him. n/t
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #36
82. Your posts are always excellent........nt
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ozone_man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #36
95. It was the truth then as it is now.
Now why can't we elect a real Democrat?
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
38. K & R !!!
:kick:
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
42. Not stupid, GREEDY!
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
43. What Socialist party was Eisenhower a member of?
Seeing him in that uniform makes me think that he's just some pinko scum like Castro or Chavez. Those bastards.
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Sadie5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #43
60. Well.....
I believe that Ike was a General in the Army. Might be wrong but don't think so. He actually fought in WW1
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TrollBuster9090 Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #60
80. I think it was a bit of a sore spot that Ike didn't actually fight in WWI.
Edited on Mon Sep-05-11 04:03 PM by TrollBuster9090
He spent WWI in Pennsylvania training tank crews. I think he was a great General, a great Supreme Allied Commander, and a great President, but I think he spent his whole military career as a paper pusher. MacArthur gave him a back handed compliment one time after he was President by saying "He'll be a fine President, he was the best clerk I ever had."
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #80
83. MacArthur was a right wing Republican.
Dugout Doug.
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
44. Powerful reminder
K&R
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
47. Mine, too. nt
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
66. This is still a small group of wealthy elites turning the nation upside down ...
Edited on Mon Sep-05-11 02:09 PM by defendandprotect
This is a liberal nation -- a radically liberal nation -- and that's why the

RW has to try to control all sources of info -- including now the Pentagon's

control over Hollywood -- *


Elites have always known how liberal the nation is because they have to know how

they are doing in countering it --


It is the nation which too often believes RW propaganda which is hiding the info

from itself -- ironically!



And, yes -- Ike was a "conspiracy theorist" in his comments on MIC!

So were our founders who pointed to the possibility of a conspiracy between the

President and VP -- and in any such case recommended "suspension of the adminsitration" -- !!




* http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...



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Pooka Fey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
70. K&R
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
71. K&R So True
But will the dems get away with it?
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TrollBuster9090 Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
76. What Dwight didn't know is what happens when BOTH parties attempt to abolish Social Security,
Unemployment Insurance and eliminate labor laws and farm programs.

....NOTHING. The balance of power remains the same. I guess the Democrats figured it would somehow be unsportsmanlike to let the Republican party become extinct overnight as a result of their attempt to kill Medicare and Social Security, so they advocated the same thing, just to keep it even.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
84. Ike would be considered a leftist agitator today...
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Swede Atlanta Donating Member (906 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
85. Democrats are suspect too....
There are true progressives in the Democratic Party that will defend Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and other programs designed to help the "least among us". But there are many Democrats eager and willing to negotiate these programs away in exchange for electoral certainty, i.e. that they will be re-elected because their corporate masters pay for it.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
86. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
87. Seems many are.
Look at the posts above that seem to think putting SS up for grabs is a "good" idea.
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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
91. Thanks, kpete! n/t
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
93. The part in the ellipses (...) should not be left out
"There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes that you can do these things. Among them are a few Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or businessman from other areas."
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
97. Progressive candidates should use this in an ad!
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Broderick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
111. Not my fault everyone isn't as smart as me
j/k
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