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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 10:56 AM
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Libyan Revolution Week 29 part 2
Links to sites with updates: AJE Libya Live Blog AJE Twitter Dashboard The Guardian Reuters Telegraph feb17.info Libya Alhurra (live video webcast from Benghazi) Libya Alhurra archives and updates Benghazi Free Radio, in Arabic (may have translators present at times) Tribute FM (English broadcast from Benghazi) libyafeb17.com

Twitter links: Ayman Mohyeldin, with AJE Ben Wedeman, with CNN tripolitanian, a Libyan from Tripoli Brian Conley, reporter in Libya FreeLibyanYouth, Libyan advocate LibyaFeb17.com twitter account ChangeInLibya, Libyan advocate Sofyan Amry (arrived in Benghazi recently) KiloFoot (general Arab Spring news aggregation)

Useful links: feb17voices Current time in Libya Prayer times in Libya

Week 29 part 1 here.

The Oppressive Laws of Gaddafi's Libya
The government grants the right of association to official institutions by virtue of Law 71 of 1972, which regulates associational activity in Libya. Law 20 of 1991 on the Promotion of Freedom sanctions the death penalty for anyone whose continued existence would lead to the disintegration of Libyan society. The Code of Honor of March 1997 institutes a system of collective punishment for wrongdoing, whereby families, towns and municipalities are held responsible for the actions of individuals in their midst and are subject to punishment such as the dissolution of the local People's Congress or the denial of government services, including utilities, water, infrastructure projects. Associations engaging in political activity are illegal in Libya. Further, political activity is defined by Articles 2 and 3 of Law 71 of 1972 as any activity based on a political ideology contrary to the principles of the Al-Fateh Revolution of September 1, 1969. The Law on Publications, No. 76 of 1972, as modified by Law 120 of 1972 and Law 75 of 1973, govern the operation of the press, reserving all rights to publish.


This is what the Libyan freedom fighters are fighting against. Each and every one, when they went into this, knew that it was all or nothing, they had no choice but to fight. For their very survival.

Marching On in Libya, for the revolutionaries!


Thousands of women gather in Martyr's square to mark the end of Gaddafi's rule.

Photo: Al Jazeera


Al Jazeera's Evan Hill took this picture of a traffic jam of cars heading to Martyrs' square to join the celebrations. The lights in the background are Martyrs' square.

Photo: Al Jazeera


Here's a link for Sky News, click the link to watch live footage.

Day 198 September 3

Moussa Koussa's secret letters betray Britain's Libyan connection
Messages found in his office show how MI6 gave details of dissident exiles to Gaddafi ? and how the CIA used regime for rendition
Juan Cole: Qaddafi was a CIA Asset
Human Rights Watch found documents in Libya after the fall of Muammar Qaddafi that it passed on to the Wall Street Journal, which is analyzing them.
Libyans return to Misrata's devastated main street
Just months after the siege of Misrata, this port city is bustling. Stores are open, water is running and there is steady electricity ? a sharp contrast to Libya's recently conquered capital just 125 miles (200 kilometers) away.
Gadhafi turns water project into a weapon
Moammar Gadhafi's retreating loyalists have cut off water supplies to Tripoli, the rebel-held capital, from the Great Man-Made River, a $33 billion system he built to tap into a vast underground aquifer in the Sahara to sustain his arid country.
Libyans focus on reconciliation and rebuilding
Libya's new leadership reaffirmed its commitment to democracy on Friday and worked on its priorities for spending billions of dollars released from the frozen assets of fugitive strongman Muammar Gaddafi.
United Nations team arrives in Libya
A U.N. team was on the ground in Libya to re-establish the organization's presence there amid dire water, food and fuel shortages, the United Nations said Friday.
Libya's other wealth: Archaeological treasures
Before Moammar Gadhafi, there were the Phoenicians. And the Greeks. The Romans. The first Arabs. They're a reminder that no civilization -- and no leader -- is forever.
NTC launches institutional corruption investigations
Jalil added that investigations are underway to expose any institutional corruption in Libya and cities that have not joined the revolution have been given a one week notice to do so, head of Libya's National Transitional Council (NTC)
Libya: Gaddafi sons and loyalist convoys 'have fled strongholds'
Rebel leaders in town of Tahouna say convoys seen leaving military bases ahead of assault on town expected in days
CIA, MI6 helped Gaddafi on dissidents-HRW
More recent documents showed that after the war broke out six months ago, Libya reached out to a former rebel group in the breakaway Somali state of Puntland, the Somali Salvation Front, asking them to send 10,000 fighters to Tripoli to help defend Gaddafi.
Libyan team wins in 1st game since fall of Gadhafi
Playing its first game since the fall of Moammar Gadhafi, Libya's national soccer team beat Mozambique 1-0 Saturday in an African Cup of Nations qualifier.
Libya's Interim Leaders Aim to Harness Rebel Fighters
Libya's interim government plans to begin bringing irregular rebel militias under government control, either disbanding them or incorporating them into regular police and military forces, said Ali Tarhouni, the deputy chairman of the rebels' executive board, speaking at a news conference here on Saturday.
Khamis Gaddafi and the mystery of Jeremy Bowen's notebook
Khamis Gaddafi, or one of his close military aides, wrote reminders to himself in the black-covered, A5-sized book as he planned what seem to be the final battles, earlier this month, for towns near the city of Zliten.
The Song of Libya's Revolution: A Bombmaking Businessman Comes Up with a Hit
He made bombs that the rebels used in their six-month revolution against Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi. He helped defuse explosives the deposed leader's loyalists planned to plant in civilian areas of the capital of Tripoli after his fall. But Masoud Bwisir may be most loved by his people for his guitar-playing skills. He penned the song "My Nation Will Remain Strong," which has become the national anthem for a people who have searched for new national symbols to propel their cause.
Libya will only become inclusive when women are given a say in its future
At this week's conference on Libya in Paris, the Libyan National Transitional Council (NTC) and the international community talk about "inclusiveness" in the new country's future. It seems strange, then, that half of the population - women - seem to be excluded from the discussions on the future of their country.

New Libya will be a country of reconciliation, tolerance and rule of law, the head of the Libyan National Transitional Council (NTC), Mustafa Abdel Jalil, promised to the international community. "The Friends of Libya", that were gathered at the Elysee Palace, in turn promised their full support for the Libyan transition but stressed that this process must be fully managed and implemented by the Libyan people.


Day 199 September 4

Secret files: Labour lied over Gaddafi... who warned of a holy war if Megrahi died in Scotland
The startling extent to which Labour misled the world over the controversial release of the Lockerbie bomber is exposed today in top-secret documents obtained by The Mail on Sunday. ... But the confidential papers show that Westminster buckled under pressure from Colonel Gaddafi, who threatened to ignite a 'holy war' if Megrahi died in his Scottish cell.
Libya power struggle blacks out embassy (Canberra, Australia)
THE Libyan embassy in Canberra has survived death threats and the loss of its government, but it might be the electricity bill that finally breaks it.
MI5 spied on Libyan torture victims, documents reveal
MI5 also agreed to trade information with Libyan spymasters on 50 British-based Libyans judged to be a threat to Gaddafi's regime.
Five international oil firms back on ground in Libya
Nayed, who also is Libya's ambassador to the United Arab Emirates, insisted that Libya's rebel-led National Transitional Council would respect past contracts and not rush into any new deals.
Libya rebels poised to attack Gadhafi stronghold
Libyan rebels are poised to attack one of Moammar Gadhafi's remaining strongholds, but their military spokesman said Sunday he expected the town's tribal leaders to surrender rather than see their divided followers fight one another.
Tripoli: after the fall
In the city's notorious Abu Salim prison it lingers eerily behind its concrete walls and heavy steel gates. So overpowering is its presence at one of the killing grounds used by the Libyan Army's dreaded Khamis Brigade, that it makes you gag with nausea. They say that of all the senses, smell can trigger recognition, emotion, fear, like no other, and that is certainly true when it comes to the odour of death.
Ex-Gaddafi 'Nun' Reveals Perverse Regime Secrets
An ex-Gaddafi Revolutionary Committee member, or what he likes to call "nun," speaks out of the disturbing, sick and ruthless behavior Muammer Gaddafi has committed in the last four decades. Gaddafi called many of his female personal guards or members nuns because he usually refused for them to get married and have children. Her stories are extremely disturbing, but shed a necessary light on what this evil demon has done for years from raping young boys and girls to kidnappings and murders. Must watch from start to finish.
How did a Scotland-supporting son of Wester Hailes join Libya's rebels?
RAGAB BALLALI is talking about the scariest moment of his life. "There was one time, just before we took Brega, where we could see these troops in front of us," he says in his broad Edinburgh accent. "They were firing at us, and suddenly this rocket-propelled grenade came ricocheting past between me and the guy next to me and exploded right above us."
A Libyan Prisoner Lives to Tell His Story
HE was my confidential source in the Libyan military this spring, an officer who passed on secret information about disaffection in the ranks of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi. And then as the Libyan revolution spread, he made bombs and smuggled weapons into Tripoli to help overthrow the Qaddafi government.
Gaddafi kept the corpse in cold storage for over 30 years
1980 killed several people by Muammar Gaddafi and his forces. Cells was never found. Now they have found - in a cold room in Tripoli. I was really hard to believe that it was true, says Al-Mahdi El Harati, leader of the opposition's strength in Tripoli to Aftenposten.




Click here for updated map. The size of the circles show population, the color represents control, red for FFs, green for tyrants. Animated gif is retired.


A topic on the women of the revolution, dispels myths about the treatment of women in Benghazi.

Videos to bring the Libyan Revolution into context
The Battle of Benghazi. BBC Panorama on Libya Part 1, and Part 2. Video of the convoy sent to take Benghazi, taken from a dead soliders cell phone (shows how massive the operation was). Arab Awakening: Libya: Through the Fire. Tea of Freedom Song. Libya: Part 2 - The Uprising Benghazi - Backbone of the Libyan revolution


March 10 7:28pm Saif al Islam Gaddafi says "the time has come for full-scale military action" against Libyan rebels. He goes on to say that Libyan forces loyal to his family "will never surrender, even if western powers intervene".


As of this week the National Trasitional Council has been formally recognized by 73 countries. France (March 10), Qatar (March 28), Maldives (April 3), Italy (April 4), Kuwait (April 13), The Gambia (April 22), Jordan (April 24), Sengal (April 28), The United Kingdom (June 4), Spain (June 8), Australia (June 9), UAE (June 12), Germany (June 13), Canada (June 14), Panama (June 14), Austria (June 18), Latvia (June 20), Denmark (June 22), Bulgaria (June 28), Croatia (June 28), Turkey (July 3), Poland (July 9), Netherlands (July 13), Belgium (July 13), Luxembourg (July 13), United States (July 15), Japan (July 15), Albania (July 18), Slovenia (July 20), Montenegro (July 21), Portugal (July 28), Botswana (August 11), Gabon (August 12), Tunisia (August 20), New Zealand (August 22), Egypt (August 22), Jordan (August 22), Morocco (August 22), Colombia (August 22), Oman (August 23), Bahrain (August 23), Nigeria, Malta (August 23), Iraq (August 23), Greece (August 23), Norway (August 23), Lebanon (August 23), South Korea (August 24), Sudan (August 24), Hungary (August 24), Chad (August 24), Ethipia (August 24), Burkina Faso (August 24), Colombia (August 25), Serbia (August 25), Bosnia andHerzegovina (August 25), Mongolia (August 25), Djibouti (August 25), Cote d'Ivoire (August 25), Macedonia (August 25), Cyprus (August 26), Malaysia (August 26), Rwanda (August 26), Estonia (August 26), Benin (August 26), Niger (August 27), Togo (August 27), Guinea (August 28), Czech Republic (August 29), Philippines (August 30), Slovakia (August 30), Russia (September 1).

"One month ago (Western countries) were sooo nice, so nice like pussycats," Saif says in a contemptuous sing-song tone."Now they want to be really aggressive like tigers. (But) soon they will come back, and cut oil deals, contracts. We know this game." - Saif Gaddafi


(Yeah, Saif, as if you weren't "cutting oil deals, contracts" with western states. Who are the 'tigers' now? Bombing your own people.)

The first free public opinion poll ever conducted in Libya reveals clues to Eastern Libyan sentiments
* 98 percent of the respondents do not support the division of Libya as a part of the political solution for the current conflict with the Gaddafi regime. Around 95 percent also don't see any role for Gaddafi or his sons in a transitional period, and think it is impossible to implement any political reform in Libya if Gaddafi or one of his sons stays in power

* Around 96 percent of those polled, believe that the 17th of February revolution can consolidate the national unity of Libya and support the model of a democratic Libya based on a constitution which respects human rights

* Al-Qaeda has not played any role in the 17th of February revolution, say 94 percent of the Eastern Libyans, and 91 percent thinks it's impossible for Al-Qaeda to play any political role in the new Libya

* The National Transitional Council is seen by 92 percent of those surveyed as "expressing the views and wishes of Libyans for change"


This is equivalent to 17% the entire population of Libya, doing the numbers very conservatively.


A Legal War: The United Nations Participation Act and Libya
The above link is to an overview of why Obama's implementation of the NFZ and R2P is perfectly legal under the law. I will not post it entirely here, however, all objections come down to the misinformed position that Obama, by using forces in Libya, was invoking Article 43 of the United Nations. This is wrong. Obama invoked Article 42, which does not require congressional approval to implement. Proof of this is that Article 43 has never been used.

It goes like this: The US law (Title 22, Chap. 7, Subchap. XIV 287d) grants the President the right to invoke UN Article 42 without authorization, the War Powers Act (Title 50, Chap. 33 1541) grants the President permission to act without authorization under "specific statutory authorization" which, by definition, is what 287d does. 1543 of the War Powers Act requires the President to report to Congress, which he did. One can argue all day and night about the legality of the War Powers Act, doesn't change the fact that under the law as it is written, the President acted within the law.






Mohammed Nabbous, killed by Gaddafi's forces while trying to report on the massacre in Benghazi

"I'm not afraid to die, I'm afraid to lose the battle" -Mohammed Nabbous, a month ago when all this began


I'm struggling to come up with something to say about this man. I was not aware of the Libyan uprising until I saw Mo's first report, begging for help, posted here on DU. I was stricken. Here was a man giving everything he had to explain a situation that clearly terrified him, I would not call him a coward in that moment, but you could see the fear in his eyes, and desperation in his voice. For 30 days Nabbous would spend many hours covering the uprising in Benghazi. For many nights I would go to sleep with the webcast of Benghazi live on my computer screen, looking to it occasionally to be sure it was still 'there.' Mo treated the chat room as if we were his friends, and in some way, we were. I never signed up to LiveStream to thank him for all his work and it seems somewhat shallow to do so now, given that I was a lurker for so long. Ever since I took over posting these threads "Libya Alhurra" has been linked as a source of information. It wasn't until last night, when I posted, and twitter posted on Mo's adventures out into Benghazi to try to determine the truth of the situation, that Mo's webchannel became a hit, over 2000 people were watching him stream live. This was curious to him because he'd done many reports like this in the past but he appeared somewhat bemused that the view count exploded as it did. Last night Mo became a star. This is a man who first started out with a webcast replete with fear and desperation finally overcoming that aspect of himself and losing that fear, to become someone who was a fighter for the resistance just as much as those who held the guns. Reporting on the front lines of Benghazi became his final act, and for that he should never, ever be forgotten. I'm so sorry Mo that I never got to know you better.

Arab Awakening: Libya: Through the Fire is a documentary about Mo's last days, please watch it.

Mo's first report, which many of you may remember, begging for help.

Mo leaves behind a wife and a newborn child she had this to say about the No Fly Zone and R2P UN resolution:

We started this in a pure way, but he turned it bloody. Thousands of our men, women, and children have died. We just wanted our freedom, that's all we wanted, we didn't want power. Before, we could not do a single thing if it was not the way he wanted it. All we wanted was freedom. All we wanted was to be free. We have paid with our blood, with our families, with our men, and we're not going to give up. We are still going to do that no matter what it takes, but we need help. We want to do this ourselves, but we don't have the weapons, the technology, the things we need. I don't want anyone to say that Libya got liberated by anybody else. If NATO didn't start moving when they did, I assure you, I assure you, half of Benghazi if not more would have been killed. If they stop helping us, we are going to be all killed because he has no mercy anymore.


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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 10:57 AM
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1. Libyan Revolution Day 199 updates below, current time in Libya, 5:57am Sunday, September 4
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 11:01 AM
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2. K&R
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 11:09 AM
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3. Tripoli: after the fall the fear The jailers brought in a bulldozer and dug a big hole...
...and started filling it with the dead

Source: Herald Scotland




As the true horrors of Gaddafis brutal regime are revealed, Libyans will not rest until the toppled tyrant is captured or dead <[i>Eyewitness by David Pratt

4 Sep 2011


ALONG Tripolis baking hot streets it drifts on the breeze and creeps up unexpectedly.

In the citys notorious Abu Salim prison it lingers eerily behind its concrete walls and heavy steel gates. So overpowering is its presence at one of the killing grounds used by the Libyan Armys dreaded Khamis Brigade, that it makes you gag with nausea.

They say that of all the senses, smell can trigger recognition, emotion, fear, like no other, and that is certainly true when it comes to the odour of death.

Tripoli has been no stranger to death these last months. The corpses that carry the citys ominous stench have been found in warehouses, back streets, and in the liberated detention centres of Colonel Muammar Gaddafis secret police and military. This is the real and grotesque cost of the peoples revolution that overthrew his dictatorship.

Libyans, of course, are no strangers to the brutal excesses of Gaddafis 42-year rule. Hussein Elshafa spent 12 of those years in a cell at Abu Salim. His crime, way back in January 1989, was to talk of political reform to his fellow college students and be found reading a book on humanism.

...


In the bombed-out rooms off the balcony (from which Gaddafi frequently spoke at his Bab al-Aziziya compound) lay some almost surreal clues to the character of the man who brought so much suffering and terror to his people: a book on witchcraft; bathroom tiles decorated with Disney characters including Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs; ostentatious furniture. And all this within a few miles of places like Abu Salim and other secret police jails where unspeakable things happened. Gaddafi may have gone but many Libyans will not rest easy or believe they are truly free of his grotesque legacy until he is either killed or captured.

...


http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/world-news/tripoli-a...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 11:24 AM
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4. Libyan fighters positioned outside of Gadhafi strongholds
STORY HIGHLIGHTS

NEW: 'No comment' on a report that the NTC knows Gadhafi's whereabouts

NEW: Gadhafi's son says cease-fire talks broke down after brother's speech

Libya's new leaders have given Gadhafi loyalists until Saturday to surrender

Forces might try to enter Bani Walid ahead of the deadline




By the CNN Wire Staff

September 4, 2011 11:29 a.m. EDT


Tripoli, Libya (CNN) -- Fighters pushed Sunday to the outskirts of one of Moammar Gadhafi's last bastions of support, setting the stage for possible clashes ahead of this week's deadline for loyalists of the ousted leader to surrender.

...


"We're giving them a chance to come forward and negotiate surrender," Col. Ahmed Bani, spokesman for the National Transitional Council's defense ministry, told reporters Sunday.

...


"Some tribal leaders and many of the residents have surrendered their weapons, but there are still many loyalists who are protecting Moammar Gadhafi and his sons," (National Transitional Council media coordinator Adel) Zintani said.


One of Gadhafi's sons, Saadi Gadhafi, told CNN's Nic Robertson that negotiations aimed at a cease-fire had been going well, but that an "angry" speech broadcast by his brother, Saif al-Islam Gadhafi, a few days ago caused talks to break down. He said he saw no further point in negotiating and believes the NTC is ready to go into Bani Walid.


Asked his location, Saadi Gadhafi said he is "a little bit outside" of Bani Walid but had been moving around. "It seems that his options are running out," Robertson said.

...


http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/09/04/libya.war/in...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Libya rebels say Bani Walid tribal leaders divided
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 11:34 AM
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6. Mass grave found near Sirte
The Telegraph 12:50PM BST 04 Sep 2011

Anti-Gaddafi forces unearthed a mass grave on Saturday (September 3) in Umm Ghindel, east of Sirte - ousted leader Muammar Gaddafi's last bastion of support on the Mediterranean coast.

"A rebel fighter from Bin Jawad alerted us about the grave, we kept it secret until we made sure of the place. The man who told us about the grave was coming from Sirte on August 21st when he saw the grave," said anti-Gaddafi fighter Younis al-Sonossi.

On Thursday, Libya's ruling National Transitional Council has extended by one week its deadline for the surrender of Sirte. The new deadline is set for next Saturday.

Video report with translation:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindi...
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 11:51 AM
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7. Wave of deaths, arrests as ICRC visits Syria

By ELIZABETH A. KENNEDY - Associated Press | AP 31 mins ago.


BEIRUT (AP) Syria saw a wave of violence and arrests Sunday as the head of the International Committee of the Red Cross visited Damascus to address issues including caring for the wounded and access to detainees during the government's crackdown on a 5-month-old uprising.

Activists reported military operations and sweeping arrests in flash point areas including Idlib near the Turkish border and the eastern city of Deir el-Zour. There were reports of deaths, but numbers were unclear.

The state-run news agency reported that nine people were killed in central Syria in an ambush by armed groups in central Syria. The report, which could not be confirmed, said the victims were six soldiers and three civilians.

...


The U.N. estimates some 2,200 people have been killed since March as protesters take to the streets every week, despite the near-certainty that they will face a barrage of bullets and sniper fire by security forces. The regime is in no imminent danger of collapse, leading to concerns violence will escalate in coming weeks and months.

...


http://news.yahoo.com/wave-deaths-arrests-icrc-visits-s...




Both CNN and The Guardian are reporting figures for the number of protesters killed and wounded by security forces:



On Sunday, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said four people were killed in the province of Adlib and three others were killed in the village of Tahtaiya by security forces pursuing wanted activists.

The opposition group also a person from city of Suraqib who was detained for 20 days died in detention after being tortured.

And it claimed that at least 15 people were wounded in the city of Homs due to heavy gunfire by security forces who started a security and military operation on Saturday evening.

Another opposition group, the Local Coordination Committees of Syria, said eight were killed in Adlib, four in Hama province, and one each in the provinces of Homs and Damascus.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/09/04/syria.unrest/...






Red Cross chief visits Syria as killings continue

Jakob Kellenberger to meet Bashar al-Assad after activist network reports 14 more deaths and gang attacks military bus


Nour Ali guardian.co.uk, Sunday 4 September 2011 16.42 BST


The deaths of several protesters and security personnel were reported in Syria on Sunday as the head of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) visited Damascus to seek access to activists arrested during the five-and-a-half-month uprising.


At least 14 people were shot dead across Syria, including in suburbs of the capital and the western cities of Homs and Hama, according to the Local Co-ordination Committees, an activist network.


A journalist, Amer Mattar, was among a wave of reported arrests that spread from the capital to the northern port city of Latakia and to Deir Ezzor, near the Iraqi border.


The government said nine people were killed when an "armed gang" opened fire with machine guns at a military bus in central Syria. The state news agency Sana said six soldiers and three civilians had died.


The report could not be confirmed, but activists say there have been limited cases of retaliatory killings in areas subjected to the most brutal crackdowns.

...


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/04/red-cross-c...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. Interim rulers in #Libya say they are now certain Gadhafi's son Khamis killed last month

@BBCBreaking

Interim rulers in #Libya say they are now certain Gadhafi's son Khamis killed last month, buried in Bani Walid

@BBCBreaking

4:07PM GMT
Sep 4, 2011
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
9. Negotiations go on at besieged pro-Gaddafi town



Sun Sep 4, 2011 3:44pm GMT


NTC fighters, elders resume talks near town

Rebels say Saif al-Islam may have fled


By Maria Golovnina


NEAR BANI WALID, Libya, Sep 4 (Reuters) - Tribal elders from the besieged town of Bani Walid, a bastion of support for Muammar Gaddafi, came out negotiate on Sunday with fighters for Libya's interim government who have said they are ready to attack.


Earlier on Sunday a National Transitional Council (NTC) negotiator told a Reuters correspondent at the scene that talks had broken down and that its forces were about to take the town.


But, several hours later, elders from the town arrived at a frontline checkpoint, some 60 km (40 miles) north of Bani Walid. Sitting in the shade of a building, the men, dressed in flowing white robes, and NTC negotiators in military fatigues and with rifles slung over their shoulders huddled in conversation.


"We do not want to solve this militarily,"
NTC negotiator Abusif Ghnyah told Reuters at the frontline. "We don't want to fire even a single shot. We don't want blood."

...





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 12:32 PM
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10. Loyalty of Warfalla tribe no longer guaranteed for Gaddafi as Bani Walid talks held

The Libyan town of Bani Walid is dominated by the Warfalla tribe, the biggest tribe in the country, and about one out of every six Libyans belongs to Warfalla.

The tribe have traditionally been seen as Gaddafi supporters, but their loyalty is no longer a guarantee.

Al Jazeera's Anita McNaught reports from Tripoli (2:36):


http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-sep-4-2011-20...


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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 12:44 PM
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11. Algeria defends decision to shelter Gaddafi kin
Algeria defends decision to shelter Gaddafi kin
Sun Sep 4, 2011 5:16pm GMT

Sept 4 (Reuters) - ALGIERS, Sept 4 (Reuters) - Algeria's prime minister defended on Sunday his country's decision to shelter members of Muammar Gaddafi's family, describing it as a humanitarian case.

...

Libya's interim rulers have criticised Algeria's decision to shelter Gaddafi's family as an "act of aggression".

"They are Algeria's responsibility," Prime Minister Ahmed Ouyahia said of the Gaddafi family members in Algeria, describing the case as humanitarian.

"The Libyans themselves ... asked us to consider them as Algerians," he added, without specifying which Libyans had made such a request.

more... http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFLDE78303R20...
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 12:49 PM
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12. Tuareg fighters urged to drop Gaddafi, stay in Libya
Tuareg fighters urged to drop Gaddafi, stay in Libya
Sun Sep 4, 2011 5:31pm GMT

NIAMEY, Sep 4 (Reuters) - Leaders of the Tuareg people in Niger and Mali are urging countrymen who fought in Muammar Gaddafi's army to stay in Libya and rally to its new rulers rather than head south to their fragile, poverty-stricken homelands.

The return of thousands of armed Tuareg fighters could, they fear, be devastating to a region which has suffered years of rebellions and is now struggling to counter local al Qaeda allies plying the lucrative trade of foreign hostages.

The Tuareg leaders said they won assurances from Libya's interim council early last month that Tuareg members of the regular army would not be targeted, but noted that they and other Africans in Libya still faced the threat of reprisals.

"We do not doubt our partners in (Libya's) National Transitional Council (NTC) or their will to move forward, but war is war ... there are always uncontrollable elements," said Ibrahim Ag Mohamed Assaleh, a Malian parliament deputy for the northern town of Bourem.

more... http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7K40KR20...
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
13. Dupe :)
Edited on Sun Sep-04-11 12:53 PM by pinboy3niner
Missed it by THAT much! :rofl:

:toast: to Iterate!

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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. Still outpaced by 100-to-1
The worst was a few week ago - just after noon here, no one had posted for several hours, you were well into the night's afk for much needed sleep and hadn't been here. Breaking news two minutes old, re-check the story, C&Px2, re-check before posting...and out of the blue I'd been beaten by 30 seconds. So I had lunch. It's a mystery. :toast:
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. You can't explain it
--Bill O'Reilly

:rofl:
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
14. Political Repression 2.0
AGENTS of the East German Stasi could only have dreamed of the sophisticated electronic equipment that powered Col. Muammar el-Qaddafis extensive spying apparatus, which the Libyan transitional government uncovered earlier this week. The monitoring of text messages, e-mails and online chats no communications seemed beyond the reach of the eccentric colonel.

What is even more surprising is where Colonel Qaddafi got his spying gear: software and technology companies from France, South Africa and other countries. Narus, an American company owned by Boeing, met with Colonel Qaddafis people just as the protests were getting under way, but shied away from striking a deal. As Narus had previously supplied similar technology to Egypt and Saudi Arabia, it was probably a matter of public relations, not business ethics.

Amid the cheerleading over recent events in the Middle East, its easy to forget the more repressive uses of technology. In addition to the rosy narrative celebrating how Facebook and Twitter have enabled freedom movements around the world, we need to confront a more sinister tale: how greedy companies, fostered by Western governments for domestic surveillance needs, have helped suppress them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/02/opinion/political-rep...
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
15. Libya: Mass Grave and Landmines Found (video)
Opposition forces discovered mass graves on Saturday In Umm Ghindel, east of the Mediterranean coastal town of Sirte, one of the last towns controlled by Muammer Qaddafi.

Several bodies have been exhumed so far, according to one anti-Qaddafi fighter. He said that a rebel traveling from Sirte had informed them about the burial site.

Meanwhile, anti-Qaddafi forces in Yafran, in the northwestern region of the country, are guarding a grape farm, located near a military compound of Qaddafis son Khamis, after residents discovered an estimated 6,000 landmines inside a barn on the farm. Just last week, around 50 burned bodies were discovered nearby.

"We got a phone call from the neighbours. Gaddafi troops used to come here. We arrived with our commander. We found this store with all these landmines. That is how we found them. We secured the area. We don't want any civilians to come in and take any of them. This could cause problems for the residents. After this we will move all of the landmines to a safe area," said Mohammed Abud, an anti-Qaddafi soldier from Yafran.

The National Transitional Council is in charge of the land mines, which the European Union fears could be pilfered or stumbled upon by children.

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/09/04/165410...
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
16. Talks break down at besieged Gaddafi town



Sun Sep 4, 2011 6:08pm GMT


Fighters besieging town

Rebels say Saif al-Islam may have fled


By Maria Golovnina


NEAR BANI WALID, Libya, Sept 4 (Reuters) - Talks to end a standoff around the besieged Libyan town of Bani Walid broke down on Sunday, said a negotiator for fighters hunting Muammar Gaddafi.


"As chief negotiator, I have nothing to offer right now. From my side, negotiations are finished," Abdallah Kanshil told reporters at the site of earlier talks with tribal elders from the town, one of the last bastions of support for Gaddafi.

...


Kanshil said: "They said they don't want to talk, they are threatening everyone who moves. They are putting snipers on high rise buildings and inside olive groves, they have a big fire force. We compromised a lot at the last minute."


"We will leave this for the field commanders to decide, for the NTC to decide what to do next,"
he said of the interim authority, the National Transitional Council.


He said he believed that two of Gaddafi's sons and his spokesman Moussa Ibrahim were in Bani Walid.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7K40LH20...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Libya rebels say talks over Bani Walid have failed

By HADEEL AL-SHALCHI - Associated Press | AP 5 mins ago.


TARHOUNA, Libya (AP) Negotiations aimed at peacefully ending a standoff outside one of Moammar Gadhafi's remaining strongholds southeast of Tripoli have failed and Libyan rebels were waiting for the green light to launch a final assault, an opposition spokesman said Sunday.


Abdullah Kanshil, who was one of the rebel negotiators, told reporters at a rebel checkpoint about 40 miles (70 kilometers) north of Bani Walid that talks had broken down after Gadhafi's chief spokesman Moussa Ibrahim insisted the rebels disarm before entering the town.


The rebels have said the hard-core loyalists are a small minority inside Bani Walid, but are heavily armed and stoking fear to keep other residents from surrendering.


"We feel sorry for the people of Bani Walid," said Kanshil, himself a Bani Walid native. "We hope for the best for our city."


He said Moussa Ibrahim was inside the city with other regime loyalists and heavily armed supporters.


...


http://news.yahoo.com/libya-rebels-talks-over-bani-wali...




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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
18. Visual Journalism Grant to Honor Tim Hetherington
Annual Award by Human Rights Watch and World Press Photo
September 4, 2011

(New York) To honor the life and work of the late Tim Hetherington, Human Rights Watch and World Press Photo have established an annual visual journalism award focusing on human rights, Human Rights Watch said today.

Hetherington, an award-winning photojournalist and filmmaker who produced unusually powerful human rights reportage throughout his career, was killed in the besieged city of Misrata on April 20, 2011, while covering the conflict in Libya. The celebrated photojournalist Chris Hondros was killed in the same attack.

This award is a tribute to Tim Hetheringtons extraordinary talent for bringing human rights stories into vivid focus," said Carroll Bogert, deputy executive director for external relations at Human Rights Watch. The best photojournalism changes the world. We hope this grant will help more photographers think of their work in those terms."

The annual grant of 20,000 euro seeks to reward a career history of documenting critical human rights stories and an ability to draw together diverse elements into a compelling multimedia feature.

http://www.hrw.org/news/2011/09/04/visual-journalism-gr...
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
19. Where could Libya's Muammar Gaddafi be?



Sun Sep 4, 2011 5:39pm GMT


TUNIS Sep 4 (Reuters) - Ousted Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi is on the run after being driven from power by a rebellion after 42-years of rule. Following are some details on the search for him:


Libya's NATO-backed National Transitional Council, whose fighters drove Gaddafi from power, says it is using a network of informants from Gaddafi's entourage to track him down.

...


The interim rulers say Gaddafi never speaks on a mobile phone nor can they listen to the calls of his inner circle, but they can trace the calls of some of his peripheral friends.

...


There are three main towns in Libya still outside of provisional government control -- Bani Walid, Sirte and Sabha -- and there has been speculation that Gaddafi could be in any one of them. Some analysts, though, think the former strongman is too wily to stick around while NTC forces amass thousands of fighters and plan possible assaults should the towns refuse to surrender without a fight.

...


Sabha -- in the middle of the Sahara desert -- is 600 km (400 miles) south of Tripoli and is also often referred to as a potential last staging post for Gaddafi and his sons. It was here that Gaddafi announced the "the dawn of the era of the masses".

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7K40JP20...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
20. NTC struggling to deal with thousands of suspected mercs and loyalist fighters detained

Libya's rebel government has rounded up thousands of suspected mercenaries and loyalist fighters since taking Tripoli and is struggling to deal with crowded prisons, where rights groups worry that inmates are languishing with no prospect of trial.

The arrests, which have continued since the fighting for Tripoli mostly ended, are fueling a growing problem for the NTC: What to do with those who fought for Gaddafi, and how to ensure that migrant workers, whom many Libyans believe were recruited as mercenaries, are not being arrested and mistreated on baseless suspicions.

"Our concern are the widescale roundups and detentions that are creating a climate of fear," said Samuel Cheung, a senior protection officer of the UN refugee agency in Tripoli. Black migrants from sub-Saharan Africa in particular, Cheung said, "are afraid of moving around in the streets".

Al Jazeera's Evan Hill reporting from Tripoli sent in pictures:



Two more of Evan's photos at AJE Live Blog:


http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-sep-4-2011-21...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
21. Remote oasis saw Gaddafi family, but briefly

Sun Sep 4, 2011 7:02pm GMT


Gaddafi family members have left Djanet -residents

Hundreds of Libyans said to have crossed into Algeria

Libya-Algeria border now closed -security source


By Lamine Chikhi


DJANET, Algeria, Sept 4 (Reuters) - She came with her mother and brothers, fleeing across the Sahara from the wrath of her father's nation. Reaching a remote oasis, she gave birth to a daughter and was gone again, deep into the desert in a caravan of luxury vehicles.


So goes the story of Aisha Gaddafi as told by Algerians living in the oasis town of Djanet, 1,500 km (900 miles) inland from Algiers. They said they saw little of the ousted Libyan leader's family during their two-day stay last week, but would welcome other supporters of Gaddafi who arrived as refugees.


Like their prime minister, who said on Sunday that Algeria took pride in welcoming such "humanitarian cases", locals in Djanet, 60 km (40 miles) from the Libyan frontier post of Ghat, said traditions of hospitality among desert nomads meant the fugitive women and their accompanying menfolk were sure of a welcome, whatever crimes Muammar Gaddafi himself is wanted for.

...


A source in Algeria who was aware of arrangements for the Gaddafis but was not authorised to discuss them, told Reuters the family was now staying discreetly in the empty southeast of the country, probably in Illizi province, a territory the size of Italy with a population of only 50,000.

...


The shopkeeper, Safi, said he had hosted a man he described as a cousin of Gaddafi in his home and sympathised with the plight of those fleeing their homeland.


"Some Libyans have lost everything overnight, it is a tragedy for most of them," he said. "They never thought they would one day be refugees."

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFMAC43589520...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
22. Libyan commander demands apology over MI6 and CIA plot


Episode led to capture and torture of Abdul Hakim Belhaj and raises damaging questions about UK's knowledge of rendition

Martin Chulov in Tripoli, Nick Hopkins and Richard Norton-Taylor guardian.co.uk, Sunday 4 September 2011 19.42 BST


One of Libya's senior rebel commanders has demanded an apology from the British and American governments following the discovery of secret documents which show MI6 and the CIA were involved in a plot that led to his capture and torture.

Abdul Hakim Belhaj, the security commander in Tripoli, told the Guardian he was considering suing over the episode, which raises further damaging questions over Britain's knowledge of the rendition and ill-treatment of prisoners.

One document found in a treasure trove of abandoned papers shows a senior MI6 officer boasting to the Libyans about how British intelligence led to Belhaj being captured on 6 March 2004.

Then a leading dissident member of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), Belhaj was seized in Bangkok and handed over to the CIA, who he alleges tortured him and injected him with truth serum before flying him back to Tripoli for interrogation.

Documents show that five days before he was taken back to Tripoli, MI6 gave Libya Belhaj's French and Moroccan aliases, and told them he was in detention in Sepang, Malaysia.

...


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/04/libyan-comm...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
23. Libyan fighters positioned outside Gadhafi strongholds
STORY HIGHLIGHTS

NEW: Gadhafi's son says he is willing to negotiate a cease-fire

"As far as we are concerned, negotiations are over," NTC negotiator says

"No comment" on a report that the NTC knows Gadhafi's whereabouts

Libya's new leaders have given Gadhafi loyalists until Saturday to surrender



By the CNN Wire Staff

September 4, 2011 4:14 p.m. EDT


Tripoli, Libya (CNN) -- Fighters pushed Sunday to the outskirts of one of Moammar Gadhafi's last bastions of support, setting the stage for possible clashes ahead of this week's deadline for loyalists of the ousted leader to surrender.


Libya's new leaders gave Gadhafi loyalists in Sirte, Bani Walid and a handful of towns until Saturday to surrender or face military force.


"We're giving them a chance to come forward and negotiate surrender," Col. Ahmed Bani, spokesman for the National Transitional Council's defense ministry, told reporters Sunday.


But there were indications that fighters were planning to enter Bani Walid, where a powerful tribe is sympathetic to Gadhafi, before the deadline.


One of Gadhafi's sons, Saadi Gadhafi, told CNN's Nic Robertson in a phone conversation that negotiations aimed at a cease-fire had been going well, but that an "aggressive" speech broadcast by his brother, Saif al-Islam Gadhafi, a few days ago caused talks to break down. He said he saw no further point in negotiating and believes the NTC is ready to go into Bani Walid.

...


http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/09/04/libya.war/in...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
24. Algerian opposition writes letter of support to Libya's NTC
Source: Daily Star (Lebanon)



September 04, 2011 06:35 PM


ALGIERS, Sept 4, 2011 (AFP) - Algeria's opposition Rally for Culture and Democracy (RCD) gave its support to Libya's interim government Sunday in a letter to the National Transitional Council (NTC).


"As Algerian patriots fight for the democratic advancement of their country, we reiterate our complete solidarity," the RCD wrote.


The party, which holds 19 seats in the National Assembly, said that Libyans were en route to dealing with two issues still facing Algerians: "bringing down a military dictatorship and getting former regime officials to assume their historic duty."

...


http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2011/Sep-0...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
27. Foreigners complain of harassment by Libya rebels

By HADEEL AL-SHALCHI and KARIN LAUB - Associated Press | AP 20 mins ago.


TRIPOLI, Libya (AP) A Ghanaian teacher cowers in his house, certain he will be grabbed at a checkpoint because of his dark skin. Armed rebels detain 19 Ukrainian cooks and oil workers for several days on unsupported claims that they are really snipers for Moammar Gadhafi.


They're among thousands of foreigners caught in a web of suspicion as rebel fighters pursue the remnants of Gadhafi's forces. Gadhafi hired some foreigners as mercenaries, but many others held ordinary jobs in Libya, and the rebels who ousted the Gadhafi regime from most of Tripoli last month often seem to make little effort to tell them apart.


"How can we be snipers?" cook Maksim Shadrov asked angrily at a training center for oil workers in Tripoli where he, his wife and 17 other Ukrainians were being held.

...


In one sign of possible change, an official for the U.N.'s main refugee agency, Sam Cheung, said several dozen Somalis were released to his group Sunday.


"We are hoping this is a model, a first transaction," Cheung said.


...


http://news.yahoo.com/foreigners-complain-harassment-li...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
28. Libya: rebels certain Khamis Gaddafi killed
Source: The Telegraph




Libya's interim leaders are certain that Khamis Gaddafi, the youngest son of the vanquished dictator, is dead after a week of rumours that he had been killed in a heavily armed convoy close to Tarhouna.

By Rob Crilly, Benghazi and Ruth Sherlock outside Bani Walid

8:19PM BST 04 Sep 2011



If true, his death would be the highest-profile casualty among regime loyalists and a bitter blow to the besieged Gaddafi strongholds of Sirte and Bani Walid.


Rebel leaders had avoided publicly confirming the death of Khamis for fear of repeating their humiliation when they claimed to have captured Saif al-Islam, before he re-emerged barely 24 hours later.


But Ahmed Omar Bani, the rebel military spokesman, said he was certain Khamis had died alongside Mohammed al-Senussi, the son of the country's feared intelligence chief and that he was buried in Bani Walid.


He added that opposition sources within Bani Walid had supplied intelligence about the burial, supporting the testimony of prisoners who said they had been travelling with the convoy as part of Khamis's personal bodyguard.


...


This time, it seems he did not escape from his 4x4 when it was destroyed by rocket fire as it fled Tripoli for Bani Walid hours before rebels attacked the capital.

...


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindi...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
29. Both sides in Libya conflict clash at Gadhafi stronghold

Roy Gutman and David Enders
McClatchy Newspapers


BENGHAZI, Libya Loyalists of Moammar Gadhafi fired on "Free Libya" forces Sunday as they advanced on one of the last strongholds of the ousted leader, quashing hopes for a peaceful handover of the town, the rebel military spokesman said.


Col. Ahmed Omar Bani said Sunday evening that operations to liberate the town of Bani Walid, southeast of the Libyan capital, Tripoli, could begin within hours, started by backers of the new National Transitional Council within the town. Rebel forces now surrounding the town will march in "to give congratulations," he said, downplaying the likelihood of a bloody confrontation.


The outcome of Sunday's clash in the little-known town has taken on significance in part because at least two of Gadhafi's sons, Saif al Islam, 49, and Saadi, 38, were reported to be holed up there, and Gadhafi himself may have used it as a way station in what rebel officials have described as a southward escape. Bani also confirmed that a third son, Khamis, 28, had indeed been killed in a checkpoint skirmish last week and was buried in Bani Walid.

...


(Gutman reported from Benghazi. Enders, a McClatchy special correspondent, reported from near Bani Walid.)


http://www.kansascity.com/2011/09/04/3120886/both-sides...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
30. LIBYAN REVOLUTION DAY 200: CURRENT TIME IN LIBYA = 12:01 AM MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 5
Libya time = EDT +6 hours, PDT +9 hours, UTC +1 hour, GMT +2 hours










Inside one of Gaddafi's torture cells
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2030931/Libya-I...

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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
31. NTC defense spokesman says Bani Walid will be liberated "within a couple of hours"
Col. Ahmed Bani says rebels among the residents already are fighting for control of the town.

Al Jazeera has more, with Col. Bani's interview on video (4:40):

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-sep-5-2011-01...


(Col. Bani made those remarks well over an hour ago.)


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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Libyan rebels prepare to take Gadhafi stronghold

Posted on Sunday, 09.04.11

Libyan rebels prepare to take Gadhafi stronghold

By ROY GUTMAN AND DAVID ENDERS
McClatchy Newspapers


BENGHAZI, Libya -- Supporters of Moammar Gadhafi fired on "Free Libya" forces Sunday as they advanced on one of the last strongholds of the ousted leader, quashing hopes for a peaceful handover of the town, the rebel military spokesman said.


Col. Ahmed Omar Bani said Sunday evening that operations to liberate the town of Bani Walid, southeast of the Libyan capital, Tripoli, could begin within hours, started by backers of the new National Transitional Council within the town. Rebel forces surrounding the town will march in "to give congratulations," he said, downplaying the likelihood of a bloody confrontation.


The outcome of Sunday's clash in the little-known town has taken on significance in part because at least two of Gadhafi's sons, Seif al-Islam, 49, and Saadi, 38, were reported to be holed up there, and Gadhafi himself may have used it as a way station in what rebel officials have described as a southward escape. Bani also confirmed that a third son, Khamis, 28, had been killed in a checkpoint skirmish last week and was buried in Bani Walid.


Khamis had commanded the best-equipped brigade in the Libyan military, which used heavy artillery to attack rebels in major towns, including Tripoli, Benghazi and Zawiyah. The Transitional Council had reported his death twice before, but Bani said he was certain it had happened this time, because residents of the town told the council that they witnessed Khamis's funeral.

...


(Enders, a McClatchy special correspondent, reported from near Bani Walid.)


http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/09/04/2390637/libyan-re...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
33. Libyan students' fee reprieve (Tasmania)
Source: The Mercury (Tasmania, Australia)



NICK CLARK | September 05, 2011 12.01am


THE University of Tasmania has stepped in to help its Libyan students affected by the six-month war in their homeland.

...


The university, along with others interstate, has agreed to arrange a loan so that students can pay living costs, and their fees have been postponed for three months.

...


It is understood there are more than 1000 Libyan students in Australia.


Meanwhile, the Australian Government will assist about 650 Libyan students, and their dependants, who have been left stranded in Australia without funds for study and living costs because of the conflict in their home country.


Acting Minister for Foreign Affairs Craig Emerson and the Minister for Tertiary Education, Senator Chris Evans, yesterday announced a $1.5 million loan to the Libyan Embassy to support the students and their families for the next month.

...



"Many are under significant stress, and in addition to their current financial concerns are extremely worried for the welfare of family members in Libya. We want to do everything we can to ensure that they are able to finish their courses in Australia and return home to help in the rebuilding of their country."

--Acting Minister for Foreign Affairs Craig Emerson


...


http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2011/09/05/259021_...




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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
34. HRW: "Libya: Stop Arbitrary Arrests of Black Africans"
http://www.hrw.org/news/2011/09/04/libya-stop-arbitrary...


The de facto authorities in Tripoli, the National Transitional Council (NTC), should stop the arbitrary arrests and abuse of African migrant workers and black Libyans assumed to be mercenaries, Human Rights Watch said today. They should release those detained as mercenaries solely due to their dark skin color, Human Rights Watch said, and provide prompt judicial review to any for whom there is evidence of criminal activity. ... The NTC should also implement its stated commitment to human rights by ensuring the security of tens of thousands of migrant workers from sub-Saharan Africa, who face harassment and violence from both armed rebel fighters and Libyan citizens who accuse them of having fought as mercenaries for Gaddafi, Human Rights Watch said.

Its a dangerous time to be dark-skinned in Tripoli, said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East and North Africa director at Human Rights Watch. The NTC should stop arresting African migrants and black Libyans unless it has concrete evidence of criminal activity. It should also take immediate steps to protect them from violence and abuse.

Mass Arrests, Fear of Mercenaries
Over the past week security forces newly operating in neighborhoods around the capital, staffed mostly by armed young men, have conducted mass arrests of migrant workers from other African countries such as Chad, Sudan, Niger, and Mali, holding them in makeshift detention facilities, including a school and a soccer club. Human Rights Watch visited two such facilities and one prison, where the majority of African detainees interviewed claimed to be migrant workers detained simply because of their nationality and that they were not pro-Gaddafi mercenaries. Prior to the uprising, between 1 and 2 million African migrant workers were in Libya.

more at link
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Rebels released several dozen Somali detainees to UN refugee agency Sunday

In one sign of possible change, an official for the U.N.'s main refugee agency, Sam Cheung, said several dozen Somalis were released to his group Sunday.

"We are hoping this is a model, a first transaction," Cheung said.


http://news.yahoo.com/foreigners-complain-harassment-li...


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mark7sys Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #34
72. So it's going from a dangerous time to be a Libyan in Libya
... to a dangerous time to be a mercenary in Libya: something to celebrate, n'est-ce pas?

The dark cloud in the sliver lining is that the home countries don't appear to much want their mercenaries back.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #72
83. Little more than two weeks ago forced migration from Tripoli by boat was ended.
As far as I know, these were the last refugee arrivals by boat in Lampedusa:

Italy says Lampedusa migrant numbers rising
17 August 2011 Last updated at 15:48 GMT

More than 3,000 people have reached the small island of Lampedusa - 200km (124 miles) off the Tunisian coast - in the past few days, they report.
Arrivals are said to include Somalis and Nigerians as well as North Africans fleeing the violence in Libya.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14563248

Thousands still arriving on Italys shores from Libya and Tunisia - UN agency
UN News Service 16 August 2011

People are continuing to flee Libya and Tunisia for a variety of reasons, the United Nations refugee agency reported today, noting that almost 2,000 people arrived on the Italian island of Lampedusa over the weekend from the two North African nations.

The majority of the new arrivals, some 1,800, set sail from Janzour, 12 kilometres west of the Libyan capital, Tripoli, where they had waited for over a week for calm sea conditions to depart, according to the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR).
http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/refworld/rwmain?...

At least that has been stopped. The status quo is certainly not acceptable, but the least people could do is acknowledge that 200 people being frightened and detained in a schoolyard is an improvement over 1,800 being coerced into leaky boats. I know that's bizarre, but it's also temporary.

Back in March when Gaddafi closed the border, he also took their passports. Other reports mention companies seizing migrant worker passports upon arrival. I don't know if the passports can be returned, or if Libya can issue new residency permits; either way, leaving someone stateless leaves them most vulnerable. Food, water, shelter, protection. and passport/visa/permit would go a long way to re-establish trust.

As far as the mercenary issue, I don't know. It's a tough thing for Libyans who have been traumatized to walk away from it knowing that plenty of criminals will go free. From the migrant workers point-of-view, the choice of starve, shoot, or swim isn't necessarily one they should be held accountable for.

And as minor point, it wouldn't hurt if Americans could acknowledge for a moment that not all racism worldwide is exactly the same as American racism. Shocking, I know, but everyone has their own.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #83
90. As always your analysis is spot on.
Thanks for that.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
35. 'Day from hell': Detainees on both sides suffer in Libya
TRIPOLI, Libya Rebel forces and armed civilians are rounding up thousands of black Libyans and migrants from sub-Sahara Africa, accusing them of fighting for ousted strongman Moammar Gadhafi and holding them in makeshift jails across the capital.

Meanwhile, stories of torture emerged from survivors who described how Gadhafi forces detained them in crowded metal containers and left them to die, Amnesty International reported Thursday. One survivor described a "day from hell."

In their own fight for leadership and control of Libya, the rebels' National Transitional Council has called on fighters not to abuse prisoners and says those accused of crimes will receive fair trials. There has been little credible evidence of rebels killing or systematically abusing captives during the six-month conflict. Still, the African Union and Amnesty International have protested the treatment of blacks inside Libya, saying there is a potential for serious abuse.

Virtually all of the detainees say they are innocent migrant workers, and in most cases there is no evidence that they are lying. But that is not stopping the rebels from placing the men in facilities like the Gate of the Sea sports club, where about 200 detainees all black clustered on a soccer field this week, bunching against a high wall to avoid the scorching sun.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44361720/ns/world_news-mide...



There has been little credible evidence of rebels killing or systematically abusing captives during the six-month conflict. Still, the African Union and Amnesty International have protested the treatment of blacks inside Libya, saying there is a potential for serious abuse.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
37. Fears for Libya's disappeared
As many as

30,000

men are missing after Libya's six-month revolution, a doctor at a hospital in Tripoli has told Sky News.

Dr Aman Hamad said she feared they might never be traced and many were probably now dead.

Relatives of Libya's "disappeared" have begun posting pictures of their loved ones at hospitals.

Dr Hamad is coordinating efforts to try to trace the men, and only now with the fall of Gaddafi can they hope to find them.

They put up pictures of men whom they believe were abducted, arrested or killed by Gaddafi's forces during the uprising.

Sky's Lisa Holland spoke to the family of Mohammed Shaibi, who was part of the opposition movement.

He went to join the fight for Tripoli and never came back. His wife Zeinab said she had no idea what happened to him.

Holland met Zeinab and the couple's two young daughters Rawasi and Sama at their home in Zawiyah, about an hour from Tripoli.

Mohammed's picture is in the window and his car is in the drive, unused since he disappeared a few weeks ago.

http://news.sky.com/home/article/16062681
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
38. Sarkozys Pro-NATO Policy Is Much More Than Symbolism
Source: Bloomberg



Editorial

By the Editors Sep 4, 2011 5:00 PM PT


French President Nicolas Sarkozy has ushered in a new era of cooperation with a foreign policy that brings the country closer to the U.S. than it has been in decades. Vive la France.


The fall of Muammar Qaddafis brutal dictatorship in Libya wouldnt have been possible without Sarkozys leadership. The choice of the Elysee Palace, the seat of the French presidency, as the host of the Libya Contact Group meeting on Sept. 1 was no accident and was richly deserved. The gathering of leaders and foreign ministers discussed how to coordinate international support for Libyas new government. But unofficially, it was a victory celebration. Sarkozy earned the right to sit at the head of the table surrounded by U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and her counterparts from around the world.


The French emergence as a full partner of the U.S. and a leader of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization might be the most important aftereffect of the effort to depose Qaddafi. By his reluctance to lead on Libya, U.S. President Barack Obama challenged Europe to take greater responsibility for its security. Sarkozy and U.K. Prime Minister David Cameron were up to the task.

...


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-05/sarkozy-s-pro-...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
39. BREAKING, NYT: China Sought to Sell Arms to Qaddafi, Documents Suggest
Source: New York Times




By ANNE BARNARD

Published: September 4, 2011


TRIPOLI, Libya In the final weeks of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafis battle with Libyan rebels, Chinese state companies offered to sell his government large stockpiles of weapons and ammunition in apparent violation of United Nations sanctions, officials of Libyas transitional government said Sunday. They cited Qaddafi government documents found by a Canadian journalist, which the officials said were authentic.


The documents, including a memo from Libyan security officials detailing a shopping trip to Beijing on July 16, appear to show that state-controlled Chinese arms companies offered to sell $200 million worth of rocket launchers, antitank missiles, portable surface-to-air missiles designed to bring down aircraft, and other weapons and munitions. The documents, in Arabic, were posted on Sunday on the Web site of The Globe and Mail, a Toronto newspaper.


The Chinese companies apparently suggested that the arms be delivered through third countries like Algeria or South Africa. Like China, those countries opposed the United Nations authorization of NATO military action against Qaddafi forces in Libya, but said they supported the arms embargo imposed by an earlier United Nations resolution.

...


We have hard evidence of deals going on between China and Qaddafi, and we have all the documents to prove it, (Abdulrahman Busin, a rebel military spokesman) said, adding that the rebels have other evidence, including documents and weapons found on the battlefield, showing that arms were supplied illegally to Colonel Qaddafis forces by numerous other governments or companies. I can think of at least 10 off the top of my head, he said.

...


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/05/world/africa/05libya....




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
40. Doctor Fears 30,000 Libyans Are Missing

Source: Sky News



1:42am UK, Monday September 05, 2011

Lisa Holland, foreign affairs correspondent, Tripoli, Libya


A doctor at a Tripoli hospital has told Sky News she believes as many as 30,000 men are missing after Libya's six month revolution.


Dr Aman Said Hamad said she feared they might never be traced - believing many were now dead.



Relatives of Libya's "disappeared" have begun posting pictures of their loved ones at hospitals. Dr Hamad is co-ordinating efforts to try to trace the men.


Only now, with the fall of Gaddafi, can they hope to try to find them.

...


Full story and video report (2:15) :

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16062729




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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #40
56. If we wanted to talk about the total number of deaths Gaddafi is responsible for...
...over the entirety of his regime I think 30,000 in the revolution - 8,000 in the Toyota War and another 10,000 in political murders and massacres for about 50,000 people dead from his dictatorship over its span.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #56
57. Gaddafi forces buried more than 6,000 of their own troops during siege of Misrata alone
That figure was reported on CNN to have been documented by the Red Crescent. I haven't seen the RC source for that yet, but will look it up when I get a chance. (Thanks for reminding me. :) )
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
41. To Celebrate Holy Months End, Libya Rebels Open Government Offices to Public
Source: New York Times



By ROD NORDLAND

Published: September 4, 2011


TRIPOLI, Libya After the Muslim holy month of Ramadan ends with the Id al-Fitr holiday, Libyan employers traditionally throw a reception for their workers. On Sunday, the interim rebel government decided to make its reception a little different and declared an open house.


Pretty much anyone was welcome who was willing to dress up and step through the metal detector at the door to the hall of the General Congress of the People; once inside they were encouraged to wander the halls and meet the men (and a woman or two) who are trying to put things back together again.



During the decades of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafis harsh and eccentric rule, the building housed the prime minister and his top officials. Since Tripoli, the capital, fell less than two weeks ago, the rebel leaders who have arrived here have settled into its hardwood-paneled offices and marble corridors to begin tackling the nitty-gritty problems inherited by the victors, ranging from restoring the water supply and phone service to dealing with the gunmen still roaming the streets.


On Sunday, such challenges were put aside.


We could never have entered this place before, said Mohadin Krekshi, who runs a legal translation agency and said he lost his government job 42 years ago, after Colonel Qaddafi seized power, for failing to declare allegiance to him. Can you imagine? This is like some kind of No. 10 Downing Street, and all of the Tripolitani are here.


Mr. Krekshi wore a smile pasted across his face, like nearly everyone else, except for a few very nervous bodyguards.


...


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/05/world/africa/05tripol...




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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
42. The Voice of Libya An inspiring story of citizen journalism.
An inspiring story of citizen journalism.

John Pollock 09/05/2011

"I'm not afraid to die, I'm afraid to lose the battle"

As Libyan freedom fighters entered Tripoli on August 21, my Twitter feed lit up with tweets about Libya and Gaddafieven if people couldn't quite agree which of some 112 transliterations of his name to make the hashtag.

Once again, a global conversation about a global event was happening in near real time. As well, of course, as the meta-global-conversation about the global conversation: in particular, widespread admiration for Alex Crawford's outstanding reporting for Sky News, especially compared with Al Jazeera, CNN and the BBCall of whom were comparatively slow off the mark.

Watching on Twitter, Sky News and Al Jazeera simultaneously, the collective energy and excitement was palpable, as Mark Lynch notes on Foreign Policy:

"The reactions...once again show the potent and real demonstration effects which characterize today's highly unified Arab political space.I don't see how anybody watching al-Jazeera, following Arab social media networks, or talking to people in the region could fail to appreciate the interconnected nature of Arab struggles. It's the same sense of shared fate and urgency that those who follow the Arab public sphere could feel in February and March."

Among that shared urgency, one fate was quickly remembered: that of computer engineer turned citizen journalist Mohammed 'Mo' Nabbous. He came to the world's attention on February 19 with an emotional interview given to the BBC from a rooftop in Benghazi, four days after the Libyan uprising began in Benghazi:

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/guest/27130/
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
43. Sudanese fleeing from the hell of failure Gaddafi tells the details of his torture
Another instance of Hannibal's wife abusing a worker:




Sudanese daily political dialogue with a young runaway from the hell of Gaddafi's palaces, as stated in the title of the dialogue the newspaper. And told the young man who was working as a factor in the laundry Palace son Hannibal Gaddafi, the story of his torture by the wife of Lebanese origin Hannibal French nationality, and talked about a lot during this exciting dialogue.

- I originally was born in Libya in 1985 where my father was an expatriate in the country and grew up in different cities according to the movement of DNA and even decided to return to Sudan in 2002. And came back and stayed on my own I continue my study. But when I received the news of the death of my father and I had to leave school to count on myself and started to work in laundries different in Tripoli, and specifically in the laundry to the radio in the OS with the Sudanese Madbo called Juma.

http://www.alquds.com/news/article/view/id/274688

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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
44. Post-Gaddafi Libya stresses forgiveness, Muslim theologian runs stabilisation team
When the officials guiding Libyas post-Gaddafi transition list their most urgent tasks, they talk about supplying water, paying salaries or exporting oil, and then add something quite different fostering reconciliation. The focus on forgiveness might have seemed out of place at meetings in Paris on Thursday and Friday where world leaders and Libyas new administration discussed problems of democracy, investment and the unblocking of Libyan funds held abroad.

But the example of Iraq, which plunged into chaos and bloody strife after the United States-led invasion in 2003, convinced the Libyans planning the transition from dictatorship and war that the countrys needs were more than just material.

You cannot build a country if you dont have reconciliation and forgiveness, said Aref Ali Nayed, head of the stabilization team of the National Transitional Council (NTC). Reconciliation has been a consistent message from our president and prime minister on, down to our religious leaders and local councils, he told Reuters in an interview.

http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2011/09/03/post-gad...
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
45. Libya a safe haven for Somali refugees
Edited on Mon Sep-05-11 12:30 AM by tabatha
'Detention in Libya is still better than going back to Somalia because there you can get killed any minute,' Salat told AFP.

For four days the refugees stayed under the supervision of the victorious rebel fighters who were able to provide one meal a day despite shortages of fuel, food and water in the capital.

'Our religion encourages to treat this people humanely,' said commander Adnan Ibrahim Mleigta, leader of the Alqaqa unit which found the Somali refugees.

'It was clear they had not been involved in any violence,' he said.

http://bigpondnews.com/articles/World/2011/09/05/Libya_...

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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #45
58. I think any reasonable observer can ascertain that by and large the rebels...
...have respected the rights of non-combatants and assisted when possible. The detentions that have been made have either been the result of overeager rebels or legitimate concern over the presence of mercenaries. There have been no reports of massacres and what limited abuse that has occurred by rebels has been localized in the presence of major fighting. The rebels aren't perfect; but they are repulsed by the Gaddafi principles.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
46. Nigeria, South Africa in cold war over Gaddafis fate
23 hours ago | 247 Views

A cold war is brewing between Nigeria and South Africa over the fate of the embattled Libyan leader, Muammar Gaddafi.

While Nigeria is backing the rebel-controlled Transitional National Council (TNC) in Libya, President Jacob Zuma of South Africa is supporting Gaddafi.

But the Federal Government has been trying to manage the situation to avoid it degenerating into a major crisis.

There was however concern and panic over the likely release of Henry Okah, who is standing trial as a mastermind of the October 1, 2010 bomb blast in Abuja.

Investigation by our correspondent revealed that the administration of President Goodluck Jonathan has maintained a parallel position with President Zuma over Gaddafis fate.

http://myafrotube.bulawayo24.com/index.php?id=iblog&ibl...
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
47. MICHAEL BURLEIGH: This saga of moral squalor shames Britain
By Michael Burleigh
Last updated at 12:49 AM on 5th September 2011

They say that when supping with the Devil, you should bring a long spoon.

The discovery of secret correspondence between the Labour government and the Gaddafi regime in the abandoned British ambassadors residence in Tripoli reveals dining arrangements akin to snouts grubbing greedily together in one stinking trough.

The tone is occasionally risible. Dear Muammar, Blair begins a letter to Gaddafi on December 28, 2006, adding the Arabic New Year salutation Eid mubarak with a toe-curling desperation to please. Maybe Gaddafi had already wished Tony Happy Christmas? I somehow doubt it.

In the following March, Blair was at it again, writing with gushing insincerity to Engineer Saif Gaddafis playboy son Saif al-Islam thanking him for sending him a copy of his interesting LSE thesis.

That will be the plagiarised thesis Saif concocted with the help of Tony Blairs favourite academics at the London School of Economics, an institution whose once-proud reputation has been dragged through the mud after it accepted Gaddafis tainted cash.

You have to pinch yourself to realise that these letters are not a spoof, but instead some of the more farcical elements in the grotesque dealings of a major western power with a flyblown desert dictatorship in North Africa whose leader was recently described by David Cameron as a monster.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2033779/MICHA...
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
48. Former Gaddafi adviser tells BBC MI6 working with regime right up until start of uprising in Feb
Edited on Mon Sep-05-11 02:02 AM by tabatha
MishalHusainBBC Mishal Husain
Former Gaddafi adviser tells BBC MI6 working with regime right up until start of uprising in February #libya
9 hours ago

I have to repeat that for those who think the Libya uprising is an MI6/CIA plot.


Former Gaddafi adviser tells BBC MI6 working with regime right up until start of uprising in February
Former Gaddafi adviser tells BBC MI6 working with regime right up until start of uprising in February
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 05:03 AM
Response to Original message
49. NATO airstrikes Sunday, September 4

Key Hits 04 SEPTEMBER:


In the vicinity of Sirte: 1 Military Vehicle Storage Facility, 2 Armed Vehicle, 4 Multiple Rocket Launchers, 2 Heavy Machine Gun, 4 Surface to Air Missile Canisters.


In the vicinity of Sebha: 1 Command and Controle Node / Warehouse.


In the vicinity of Waddan: 14 Surface to Air Missile Canisters.


In the vicinity of Hun: 3 Anti Aircraft Artillery Systems, 3 Radars.


,,,


International Humanitarian Assistance Movements as recorded by NATO


Total of Humanitarian Movements: 941 (air, ground, maritime)


Ships delivering Humanitarian Assistance 04 SEPTEMBER: 2


Aircrafts delivering Humanitarian Assistance 04 SEPTEMBER: 12


**Some humanitarian movements cover several days.


http://www.nato.int/nato_static/assets/pdf/pdf_2011_09/...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 05:56 AM
Response to Original message
50. "Cousin to cousin", Libyan siege tests tribal divides



Mon Sep 5, 2011 9:50am GMT


Pro-Gaddafi tribal volunteers holding out in Bani Walid

Negotiations test ability to transcend tribal divisions for peace

Warfalla tribe were kingmakers in Gaddafi's fractious Libya


By Maria Golovnina


NORTH OF BANI WALID, Libya, Sept 5 (Reuters) -

...


"I was in Bani Walid yesterday. There are no Gaddafi brigades there, only Warfalla volunteers who are fighting on Gaddafi's side," said Warfalla, 42, a power company employee.


"Many Gaddafi leaders were from the Warfalla. They will not surrender Bani Walid until there are guarantees that they will not be arrested or tried. Many of them committed crimes and killed a lot of people."

...


Rebels put their rifles on the ground and listened intently. Their faces were grim. The key stumbling block, the elders explained, was the presence of Gaddafi loyalists who were putting pressure on the locals to fight.


Otherwise, ordinary people just want peace, they said.

...


"They are now talking cousin to cousin," said a Warfalla observer who asked for his name not to be used. "But as you can see it is still not going well."

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7K40NH20...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 06:11 AM
Response to Original message
51. Al Jazeera has unconfirmed reports that water is coming back on in Tripoli
Edited on Mon Sep-05-11 06:17 AM by pinboy3niner
Anita McNaught just reported live on AJE, is going to check it out.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 06:22 AM
Response to Original message
52. More talks reported at Bani Walid
Al Jazeera's Sue Turton reports on developments from near Bani Walid:





Rebels have pushed to within 7km of the centre of Bani Walid. They exchanged fire with some of the Gaddafi's forces. But they have since retreated a little bit instead of setting up a defensive position there, and the reason for that is, we have more talks...


He said that another group had come forward from the centre of Bani Walid saying that they are completely separate from the others that wanted to talk yesterday when it all broke down.



The rebels yet again have said we will stall going any further, they have pulled back from that 7km mark, they are static there now and they are waiting yet again to see if they can come to any agreement..


They are very concerned that there could very well be civilians who are killed, so they are willing to talk to just about anybody that puts their hands up and says they represent anything to do with the pro-Gaddafi forces.



http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-sep-5-2011-13...


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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 06:32 AM
Response to Original message
53. Libyas new civilian leaders rein in military commanders, Islamist influence
Source: Washington Post



By Simon Denyer, Published: September 3


TRIPOLI Libyas new civilian leaders put all military commanders in the capital under their control Saturday, a move designed to rein in Islamist influence and paper over internal tensions.

...


But Mohammed Benrasali, a senior official in the Libya Stabilization Committee and a member of the Misurata city council, said the move was largely designed to rein in Belhadj, whose past as a fighter in Afghanistan was seen as something of a public relations problem for a government seeking substantial Western backing.


Belhadj is a former head of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, which engaged in an insurgency against Gaddafi in the 1990s. Belhadj was appointed head of the Tripoli Military Committee earlier in the week, but he irritated many people by appearing to claim too much credit for the citys liberation.


Mr. Belhadj is getting too big for his shoes, Benrasali said. We needed someone to rein him in.

...


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/libyas-new-civilian...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
54. Stumbling block in negotiations at all holdout towns: Diehard G loyalists fear trial & execution
Matthew Weaver posts this report from a Guardian correspondent at The Guardian's Live Blog:


The rebels are willing to continue to negotiate for Gaddafi loyalists in Bani Walid, Chris Stephen reports from Misrata.

He emails:


Rebels here confirm that talks have broken down with Beni Walid and say the problem is not tribal elders but a contingent of diehard Gaddafi loyalists who fear trial and execution if they caught.

They say the same problem bedevils efforts to negotiate the surrender of Sirte, Sabha and al-Jaffra.


The rebels are ready to assault the town but waiting to try and re-start talks.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2011/s...


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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
55. China says didn't know of arms sales talks with Gaddafi forces
Edited on Mon Sep-05-11 07:00 AM by pinboy3niner

Mon Sep 5, 2011 9:17am GMT

By Chris Buckley


BEIJING, Sept 5 (Reuters) - Chinese arms firms held talks with representatives of Libya's Muammar Gaddafi's beleaguered forces in July over weapons sales, but behind Beijing's back, the Chinese Foreign Ministry said on Monday.

...


The ministry confirmed the gist of reports in the Globe and Mail and the New York Times that documents found in the Libyan capital, Tripoli, indicated that Chinese companies offered to sell rocket launchers, anti-tank missiles and other arms with a total of some $200 million to Gaddafi's forces, despite a U.N. ban on such sales.


A ministry spokeswoman, Jiang Yu, said members of Gaddafi's government had come to China and held talks with a "handful" of Chinese arms company officials without the knowledge of the government.


"We have clarified with the relevant agencies that in July the Gaddafi government sent personnel to China without the knowledge of the Chinese government and they engaged in contact with a handful of people from the companies concerned," Jiang told a news briefing in Beijing.


"The Chinese companies did not sign arms trade contacts, nor did they export military items to Libya," Jiang said. "I believe that the agencies in charge of the arms trade will certainly treat this seriously."

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL3E7K513N20...




ETA: See oiginal report at Post #39


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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #55
63. China analyst assesses China's stmt that arms dealers made deals w/ Gaddafi behind government's back
From Al Jazeera's Live Blog:


Willem van Kemenade, a China analyst, spoke to Al Jazeera about China's announcement that arms companies had made arrangements with Gaddafi's regime behind the government's back:


The Chinese denial has plausibility in the sense that the Chinese government particularly the Foreign Ministry has no control over a lot of the large influential state companies, including arms dealers.


Secondly, that China has seriously comtemplated supplying arms at that late stage in the Libyan conflict, I find very doubtful because the Chinese have been making overtures to the rebels from June. But there has been a lot of posturing of course. Some of these rebel leaders have been issuing warnings that countries like Russia and China who have not been supporting the coalition from the very beginning, might be penalised by exclusion from the reconstruction programme. And it's quite conceivable that China is playing its own games and the rebel counsel has indeed toyed with those ideas.


But it is inconceivable that China will be excluded from the reconstruction because it is one of the top players in the world in the construction industry, in infrastructure, in supply of labour for large projects, etc. Moreover it's one of the top five in the UN security (council).



http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-sep-5-2011-15...

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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
59. UK says inquiry could probe Libya torture reports



Mon Sep 5, 2011 11:59am GMT


LONDON, Sept 5 (Reuters) - A British inquiry into whether its security services knew about the torture of terrorism suspects overseas should investigate allegations involving Britain's dealings with Muammar Gaddafi's Libya, the government said on Monday.

Documents found in the abandoned Tripoli office of Gaddafi's intelligence chief indicate U.S. and British spy agencies helped Gaddafi persecute Libyan dissidents, Human Rights Watch said on Saturday.

British Prime Minister David Cameron is expected to respond to allegations of potential British complicity in torture in Libya in a statement to parliament at 1430 GMT on Monday, his spokesman said.

The spokesman said an inquiry set up by the government last year to investigate whether its security services knew about the torture of terrorism suspects on foreign soil could choose to look into the new Libyan allegations.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7K51FT20...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
60. Rebel reinforcements arrive at Gadhafi stronghold

By HADEEL AL-SHALCHI - Associated Press | AP 7 mins ago.


TARHOUNA, Libya (AP) Rebel reinforcements arrived outside one of Moammar Gadhafi's last strongholds in Libya on Monday, even as the forces arrayed against the toppled dictator gave the town a chance to surrender and avoid a fight.


Thousands of rebels have converged on Bani Walid, a desert town some 90 miles (140 kilometers) southeast of Tripoli. Gadhafi has been on the run since losing his capital last month.

...


The scene was calm early Monday, with rebels brewing tea and lighting morning cigarettes, at a checkpoint about 40 miles (70 kilometers) from Bani Walid's center. Then a convoy of nine trucks flying the independence-era tricolor the rebels have adopted arrived. As his men fired rifles into the air and shouted "God is great!" commander Ismail al-Gitani said they were part of a larger force and that he was ordered to reinforce the northern approaches to Bani Walid.


He refused to say how many fighters he had brought.


"We won't go inside Bani Walid unless the Warfala tribe invites us," he said, referring to Bani Walid's main tribe. "The Warfala have to lead us into Bani Walid. Hopefully no one will be shot. We don't want to use our weapons. But if the Gadhafi loyalists shoot at us, of course we will return fire."

...


http://news.yahoo.com/rebel-reinforcements-arrive-gadha...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
61. Italian films tackle immigration at Venice fest

Mon Sep 5, 2011 12:26pm GMT

By Silvia Aloisi


VENICE, Italy, Sept 5 (Reuters) - Immigration in Italy is a big theme at the Venice film festival this year, with several home-grown movies taking a critical look at how the country's authorities and its people are struggling to deal with a growing wave of newcomers.


The issue could hardly be more topical in a year when tens of thousands of illegal immigrants fleeing political turmoil in North Africa and civil war in Libya have arrived in Italy and hundreds more have drowned at sea.

...


In Terraferma, veteran fisherman Ernesto only knows the law of the sea -- he feels a moral obligation to help people in rough waters, whatever the authorities might say.

...


Crialese decided to make the film in 2009, after reading the story of an African woman who was one of only five survivors on a crammed boat that spent 21 days drifting at sea without assistance before running aground on Lampedusa.


"I was hypnotised by her face, her expression. She had just been through hell, three weeks at sea, with people who saw them, got close and threw them water and then abandoned them again. And she looked as if she had arrived in heaven," he said.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7K40L820...




Interesting and worth reading. One of the new Italian films even "borrows" the idea of "A Day Without a Mexican." :)

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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
62. Countries that recognise Libya's NTC



Mon Sep 5, 2011

12:41pm GMT


Sept 5 (Reuters) - Nearly 60 countries have recognised Libya's National
Transitional Council. Here is a list of those countries:



Albania
Australia
Austria
Bahrain
Belgium
Benin
Britain
Bulgaria
Burkina Faso
Canada
Cape Verde
Chad
Colombia
Croatia
Czech Republic
Denmark
Egypt
Ethiopia
Finland
France
Gabon
Gambia
Germany
Greece
Guinea
Hungary
Iraq
Italy
Ivory Coast
Japan
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Kosovo
Kuwait
Latvia
Lebanon
Luxembourg
Malaysia
Maldives
Malta
Montenegro
Morocco
Netherlands
Niger
Nigeria
Palestinian Authority
Panama
Portugal
Qatar
Senegal
Slovenia
Spain
Togo
Tunisia
Turkey
United Arab Emirates
United States


* The African Union called on Aug. 26 or the formation of an
inclusive transitional government in Libya, saying it could not
recognise the rebels as sole legitimate representatives of the
nation while fighting continued. The stand was at odds with AU
members that have announced their recognition of the National
Transitional Council

* China has not formally recognised the NTC, but has said
it had "always attached significance to (its) important role".

* Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said Moscow might
establish formal relations with the rebels if they
were able to "unite the country for a new democratic start".

(Reporting by David Cutler, London Editorial Reference Unit)


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7JV2NV20...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
64. Swiss bank lobby bids to reassure on asset seizure
Looks like efforts are afoot to pass a new law that will protect brutal dictators against freezing/seizure of their funds--a law that would have benefitted Gaddafi, had it applied then, and that would dilute the effectiveness of U.N. sanctions.


Mon Sep 5, 2011 12:14pm GMT

Protect investors rather than accuse them - bank group

Some wealthy Middle East clients scared off

Switzerland aggressive in freezing assets

Law under discussion to protect investors


ZURICH, Sept 5 (Reuters) - The Swiss Bankers Association is working with the government to give investors more legal certainty over asset seizure after some were alarmed by Swiss moves to freeze the accounts of ousted dictators, its head said on Monday.

"Switzerland has no interest whatsoever to have the wrong monies invested within its borders," Swiss Bankers Association head Patrick Odier told a news conference.

"But Switzerland has all the interest in making sure that Middle East or any other type of investors will find in Switzerland the state of law that protects them before accusing them," he said.

In March, wealth managers said London is gaining in the battle for rich Middle Eastern families seeking shelter from political unrest at home, as its private banks and top end property sector tempt them away from Switzerland.

"Switzerland wants to continue to attract these important countries where wealth creation is at its most," Odier said.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7K51OV20...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
65. As Bani Walid standoff continues, rebels smuggle food and medicine to town's civilians
The Guardian's Matthew Weaver posts a detailed update from correspondent David Smith on Bani Walid standoff:


There are between 60 and 100 "diehard" Gaddafi snipers, backed by "a lot of other people", ready to defend Bani Walid, the lead rebel negotiator claimed, writes David Smith.



Rebel forces advanced from 30km outside Bani Walid on Sunday to to 17km today, according to rebel negotiator Abdullah Kanshil Kanshil.

"We tried to persuade the brigades of Bani Walid to surrender and save lives - their lives and our lives - and guaranteed their safety and fair trials," Kanshil said. "But they refused and they want to fight.

"I think the guys are afraid they will be captured.
Gaddafi wants to make a lot of harm in the city. If they die, a lot of people will die with them. We are worried about a massacre of civilians, especially in the centre, where 5,000 to 10,000 live."

He claimed others are keen to surrender, however. "The tribal elders are our people and they want to join the revolution and their sons are fighting on all fronts. Yesterday we persuaded many low-ranking soldiers to surrender their weapons."

But Moussa Ibrahim, Gaddafi's chief spokesman who became a familiar face in the international media, is apparently still spinning inside Bani Walid.

"Moussa Ibrahim did a bad, bad thing," Kanshil said. "He used local radio to tell the population that Nato and Al-Qaida are coming for you."

Ibrahim spent much of the war at the five star Rixos hotel in Tripoli but is now suffering "very bad conditions" with little water or electricity, Kanshil added. "He's the rat now. I'm sorry to say the word but that's the right description."

Muammar Gaddafi's son Saif is understood to have fled, however, but not before distributing weapons to his followers. "In the beginning, we believe, it was Saif al-Islam Gaddafi telling them to fight."

Asked about what escape route he might have used, Kanshil said: "They are snakes, they can do anything."

The population is fearful, he claimed, because a 28 May uprising involving doctors, engineers and other professionals ended in a "cold-blooded" massacre.

"I am very worried," Kanshil admitted.

Despite the stand-off, he said, the rebels had managed to smuggle some food and medicine to civilians in Bani Walid.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2011/s...

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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
66. UN ready to 'move very fast' to assist Libya with elections, envoy says

AFP - The United Nations is ready to assist Libya's new authorities in their preparations for elections, UN envoy Ian Martin told reporters in Tripoli on Monday.

"The National Transitional Council has put assistance with the electoral process very high on the list of tasks where they seek United Nations assistance and so we have done a good deal of preparatory work," he said.

The special adviser to UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon arrived in Tripoli on Saturday for talks with the local authorities on how the UN can help them in the months ahead.

Martin said it was "too soon for details" on how the transition would unfold as decisions regarding the electoral system, the establishment of an electoral commission and other technical details have yet to be determined.

"The United Nations is certainly ready to move very fast in bringing the electoral expertise that can assist the authorities on moving on the timetable (for elections) that they have established."


http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-sep-5-2011-15...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
67. NTC confirms clashes in Bani Walid last night
From The Guardian's Live Blog:


New Reuters video on Bani Walid, put together by the Guardian's video team, features National Transitional Council spokesman Ahmed Bani confirming last night's clashes in the town. He added: "I would like to confirm to our families and the international community that Bani Walid will be completely liberated as our fighters are aware of their tasks".

Abdullah Kamshil, one of the negotiators said, two of the Gaddafi's sons had fled the town, but two more could still be there.

Video report (1:51) at link:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2011/s...



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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
68. Chavez urges Gaddafi to "resist"
Posted on AJE Live Blog:


Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez has urged Muammar Gaddafi to "resist" and said he was certain the ousted Libyan strongman, whose whereabouts are unknown, is not thinking of leaving the country.

"Nobody knows where Gaddafi is," said Chavez in a telephone interview with the state-run VTV television, adding, "I am sure he is very far from thinking about leaving Libya."

Libyan rebels were threatening Monday to attack Bani Walid, a loyalist stronghold where at least one of Gaddafi's sons was believed to be hiding.

Gaddafi himself has not been seen since rebels stormed Tripoli on August 20, although as recently as Thursday he aired audio messages calling on his supporters to prepare for guerrilla war.

"What he has to do is resist and hopefully that resistance will make it possible to find the path of peace and to defeat the path of war," said Chavez.

Chavez, Gaddafi's main ally in Latin America, has defended the Libyan strongman since the start of the uprising against his four decade old rule in February, accusing NATO of using the conflict to gain control over Libya's oil.

On Monday, Chavez called on the so-called BRICS group of newly emerging economic powers, leftist Latin American governments and African states to join forces to stop the "barbarity" unleashed by NATO in Libya.

"We have to go on a more coordinated counter-offensive to arrest this barbarity," he said, without elaborating. Chavez, who is battling cancer, emerged last week from a military hospital after undergoing a third round of chemotherapy treatment. He did not rule out a need for a fourth round.


http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-sep-5-2011-17...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
69. Chief of Gaddafi's security brigade in Niger: Al Arabiya TV #Libya #Gaddafi

ShababLibyaLibyanYouthMovement


Chief of Gaddafi's security brigade in Niger: Al Arabiya TV #Libya #Gaddafi

34 minutes ago


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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #69
70. Reuters also is reporting this, attributes to "two Nigerian officials"
The officials also said about a dozen other Libyans crossed the border on Sunday after several days of talks.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
71. Muammar Gaddafi's defiant audio messages are being broadcast from a van travelling all over Libya
The Guardian's Live Blog reports:


Muammar Gaddafi's defiant audio messages are being broadcast from a van travelling all over Libya, according to the owner of the Syrian TV station that obtained the messages.

Mishan al-Juburi, who owns the Syrian TV station Al-Rai, has been speaking to the London base website Asharq al-Awsat.



He revealed to that the channel "Al-Muqawamah", which recently broadcast Gaddafi's speech, is a mobile station located in an "OB (outside broadcast) van". The vehicle moves from one place to another "so that no one can seize it", and al-Juburi pointed out that "we in (Al-Rai) channel trained the cadres operating this service."

"(Al-Muqawamah) channel is based in a vehicle fitted with satellite transmission equipment, called an OB van, and is transmitting at present from Tripoli. However, it might move on to other Libyan cities." He added: "We trained the Libyan youths working in it and I was the one who proposed to them to buy this vehicle from Lebanon, benefiting from our expertise with (Al-Zawra) channel, which the Iraqi resistance used to broadcast its satellite statements and programs, and which made it impossible for the American forces to discover it. It broadcasted in Iraq despite the satellites and sophisticated intelligence equipment there."



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2011/s...

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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
73. Post-liberation Libya: Let them get on with it
Let them get on with it
The Libyans must control their own destiny, albeit with some help from their friends
Sep 3rd 2011 | from the print edition

SO FAR, barely a week after the opposition captured the bulk of Tripoli, things have gone astonishingly well. For sure, as Colonel Muammar Qaddafis men fled before the rebel onrush, they perpetrated a string of atrocities, murdering scores, perhaps even hundreds, of prisoners. But looting by the rebels, bar an excess of exuberance after they stormed the colonels ludicrously lavish palace, has been limited. Supporters of the emerging government, under the aegis of the National Transitional Council, have generally heeded calls to refrain from reprisals. Local committees have kept a modicum of law and order on the streets, while a heartening number of the police who previously served under the colonels regime have begun to return to their old duties. Checkpoints in the liberated capital are on the whole being decently manned. No less vitally, oil is expected to start flowing again soon, along with cash from accounts held by the previous regime that had been frozen by edict of the United Nations.

The military tide looks irreversible too. The council wants to persuade the authorities in Sirte, the colonels birthplace, to surrender rather than submit to a lethal siege. A handful of southern towns that have been holding out are likely to fall. The entire country should soon be liberated, and with luck Libya will be spared more bloodshed (see article: http://www.economist.com/node/21528299 ).

But triumphalism is premature. Violence may well recur. The power vacuum has been only partially filled. As long as Colonel Qaddafi remains at large, the fear will persist that he and his diehard followers, well practised in the black arts of terror during four decades in charge, will set up and sustain a bloodily disruptive insurgency, as Saddam Hussein did in Iraq. The early euphoria could rapidly fizzle into surly disappointment. Most of the capitals people lack electricity; many have no water; few civil servants, in east or west, have been fully paid. It should be a priority to put such everyday things on a better footing. Even then the next few weeks and months are almost certain to be frustrating, dangerous and messy.

...

Libya for the Libyans

Britain and Francethe governments that have done most to bolster the council, not just by providing military support through NATOare sensibly seeking to pass the outsiders baton to the UN (see article), which is already co-ordinating the humanitarian support needed across the land, especially in Tripoli. The UN is also set to help with elections, starting with a voters register. Understandably prickly about Libyas sovereignty, the council is happy to accept UN-provided police advisers but is declining offers of military observers once NATOs task is done. In short, Libyas new authorities are insisting that Libyans must own the process of liberation. They are right. This is their moment, not the Wests.

more... http://www.economist.com/node/21528261?frsc=dg%257Cb

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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
74. Missing in Libya
Two of the websites set up to link the living and the lost:

Missing in Libya, An FGMovement project and database
http://www.mafqood.org /

and one of probably several facebook groups:
Literally, Research Association for the missing during the war of liberation of Libya
http://goo.gl/WesaQ



I don't know why some of the security software for facial recognition in airports and such can't be repurposed to a better end. I've worked with AI pattern recognition software in the past -it can be done, it has been done. There's no need for the traumatized loved ones to be searching random morgues.


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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
75. Syrian troops make arrests in manhunt for defector

By ZEINA KARAM - Associated Press | AP 1 hr 44 mins ago.


BEIRUT (AP) Syrian soldiers raided homes and made arrests Monday in a manhunt for an attorney general who appeared on video last week saying he had defected from President Bashar Assad's regime to protest a violent government crackdown on dissent, activists said.

Soldiers demanding information about Adnan Bakkour fanned out near the Turkish border and in central Syria, said Omar Idilbi, a spokesman for the activist network The Local Coordination Committees. Security forces killed at least one person near the Turkish border, he said.

Bakkour's whereabouts remained unclear. The former attorney general for central Hama province appeared in two videos last week declaring his resignation, but authorities said "terrorists" had kidnapped him and forced him to make the recording.

...


In an audio message posted online over the past day, a man who identified himself as Bakkour said that security forces and pro-regime thugs had attacked his convoy Friday in the Maaret Hirmeh area in Idlib province, killing four people accompanying him and wounding three others.


"I myself was lightly wounded because of shrapnel," he said in the audio recording, adding he was able to escape with the help of other dissidents.


...


http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-troops-arrests-manhunt-def...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
76. Bani Walid negotiations have completely broken down--Al Jazeera
Edited on Mon Sep-05-11 12:11 PM by pinboy3niner
Sue Turton just gave a live report in which she said the only talking going on is between rebels and tribal elders (there are no talks with loyalists). These are not negotiations, but are discussions intended to minimize casualties and protect civilians.

Turton says 60 or 70 hard-core Gaddafi loyalists remain in the town, commanded by Moussa Ibrahim, Gaddafi's spokesman.

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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #76
82. Video of Sue Turton's report from outside Bani Walid:

The chief negotiator of the National Transitional Council, Abdullah Kanshil says that the council is in talks with elder tribal leaders of the town.

He said that the remainder of the 'hardcore' Gaddafi forces were under the command of Mussa Ibrahim, Col. Muammar Gaddafi's former spokesperson.

Kanshil also said Saif al-Islam left the city with some supporters.

Al Jazeera's Sue Turton reports from outside Bani Walid (3:44):


http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-sep-5-2011-21...



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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
77. EGYPT: Scuffles disrupt Mubarak trial as police testify

Mon Sep 5, 2011 2:48pm GMT


By Shaimaa Fayed and Dina Zayed

CAIRO (Reuters) - A senior police officer said at the trial of Hosni Mubarak on Monday he was not aware of any order to fire on protesters who ousted him, as supporters and opponents of the deposed Egyptian president scuffled inside and outside the courtroom.

Mubarak is charged with involvement in killing protesters and "inciting" some officers to use live ammunition in the first trial of an Arab leader in person since street unrest erupted across the Middle East earlier this year.

About 850 people died in the protests that erupted on January 25 and ended Mubarak's three decades in office on February 11.

Mubarak, 83, hospitalised since April, was wheeled on a gurney into a metal defendants' cage in the court for the third session of his trial and the first to take witness testimony.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFJOE78402O2011...




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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
78. Video report: A Survivor in Libya
The NYT article was posted by tabatha here:

A Libyan Prisoner Lives to Tell His Story
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

This is the video version:
A Survivor in Libya
Salem al-Madhoun, a Libyan Navy officer who defected to the rebels, was imprisoned and tortured by Qaddafi's forces. He's recently been set free and tells his story.

http://video.nytimes.com/video/2011/09/04/opinion/10000...
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
79. Water back on in most parts of Tripoli

AP 1 hr 16 mins ago.


TRIPOLI, Libya (AP) The deputy mayor of Tripoli says tap water is flowing again in most parts of the capital after a two-week outage that disrupted the lives of hundreds of thousands people.

Rebel officials have said the outage was caused by sabotage by retreating loyalists of Moammar Gadhafi.

http://news.yahoo.com/water-back-parts-tripoli-16301037...



Good news!

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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #79
98. It brings to mind all of our speculations at one point about his vengance,
especially by the cutting water supply for the coastal cities. Turned out to be right, but less of an effect and duration than we feared. What a relief.

Now if they can just avoid a Bani Waco...
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. Amen, cuz
'Bani Waco'...nice. It fits the worst-case scenario.

Remember the recent story about the abandoned Scud system outside of Tripoli? The one that the ff's were criticized over for providing poor security for it? Buried in some of the reports was the detail that it was left pointed toward the Capital...

Remember also the Twitter reports about Gaddafi's people doing something in the sewers? And the suspicions that they were planting explosives? I hope the NTC had the sewers checked. Just in case...

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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
80. Libya's NTC shackled by prisoner overload
Libya's NTC shackled by prisoner overload
With no judicial system to count on, council must decide fate of thousands of enemy fighters and suspected mercenaries.
Evan Hill Last Modified: 05 Sep 2011 17:01

The detention of thousands of suspected mercenaries and enemy fighters has left Libya's new government facing crowded prisons and concerns from rights groups that inmates may suffer unfair trials and mistreatment.

The detentions have continued in recent days even as the fighting for Tripoli has mostly ended. Yet the influx of inmates has become a growing problem for the National Transition Council (NTC) and perhaps its toughest test since seizing power from Muammar Gaddafi and his army.

The NTC must decide how to treat those who fought for Gaddafi, and how to ensure that migrant Sub-Saharan workers are not arrested or abused on suspicions of having been recruited as mercenaries.

"Our concerns are the wide-scale roundups and detentions that are creating a climate of fear," said Samuel Cheung, a senior protection officer for the UN High Commissioner for Refugees in Tripoli.

more... http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/09/201195...

Unlike other institutions, such as the police, civil service, or financial bureaucracy, there is no judiciary that can be built upon. The Gaddafi system can't be patched and held in place until after the election. The procedures, institutions, and traditions don't exist. In a certain sense, it's the most difficult reconstruction job they have to do.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
81. Libyans start to dream of political parties

By Mohamed Hasni | AFP 1 hr 21 mins ago.

...


"We're starting from zero because Moamer Kadhafi banned any sort of political organisation in his "republic of the masses" where only the revolutionary committees were allowed," added Sadek Zarruk, an appeal court judge.


Since the uprising against Kadhafi's rule that began on February 17, few new political groupings have been announced apart from the New Libya Party, formed in July by Libyans living in the United Arab Emirates.

...


Western powers which backed the uprising say they are confident that a democratic Libya respecting human rights will emerge.


Analysts play down the importance of the different regions -- Cyrenaica in the east, Tripolitania in the west and Fezzan in the south -- as well as the multitude of tribes in Libyan society, predicting they will adapt to a democratic system.


"In complex situations there is a tendency to simplify, pitting east against west, tribes against the state, but that is an insult to Libya and the Libyans," Olivier Pliez, of France's National Centre for Scientific Research, commented recently.


http://news.yahoo.com/libyans-start-dream-political-par...




Months ago, a variety of diverse groups were each holding meetings at a hotel in Benghazi in an effort to form political parties. They may not have been announced yet, but I remember CNN's Ben Wedeman, for one, reporting on this early on.

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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
84. Libyan spy files detail Gadhafi regime's collapse

By BEN HUBBARD - Associated Press | AP 5 mins ago.


TRIPOLI, Libya (AP) As the uprising grew against Moammar Gadhafi, secret reports from his vaunted intelligence service flowed back to Tripoli. Some were mundane how agents erased anti-regime graffiti. Others were more deadly a spy volunteered to poison rebel leaders' food and drink.


The reports grew more desperate as the Libyan rebellion veered into civil war: Military leaders in the western mountains were disregarding orders; troops in the city of Misrata ran out of ammunition, turning the situation into "every man for himself."


These reports and hundreds of other intelligence documents seen by The Associated Press in Tripoli trace how the tide shifted in the six-month uprising that ended Gadhafi's 42-year reign. They show how an authoritarian regime using all its means failed to quash an armed rebellion largely fueled by hatred of its tools of control.


The Arab-language documents read and photographed by an AP reporter during a visit to Tripoli's intelligence headquarters contain a mixture of military data and regime propaganda. Amid reports on rebels' movements, phone tap records and dispatches from Gadhafi's domestic agents are memos claiming that al-Qaida was behind the rebellion and that 4,000 U.S. troops were about to invade from Egypt.

...


One letter from the Investigation and Surveillance Office pleaded with al-Senoussi to intervene at the station, which "has become an office of alcohol, prostitution and theft of property of those arrested."


In the next four pages, the officer accused his boss of getting drunk on the job, stealing money from prisoners and seizing cars to give to his guards, sons and favorite prostitutes.

...


http://news.yahoo.com/libyan-spy-files-detail-gadhafi-r...




Interesting reading...and I laughed out loud at the last two lines. Talk about orders being disregarded! :)

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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
85. Women who defied al-Gaddafi regime not spared from brutal jails
Women who defied al-Gaddafi regime not spared from brutal jails
By Diana Eltahawy, Amnesty Internationals researcher in Libya.
5 September 2011

One of the grimmest features of the armed conflict in Libya has been the spate of arbitrary arrests and enforced disappearances of thousands of suspected opponents of Colonel Muammar al-Gaddafi. Some are still missing, while those who have been freed bring back tales of torture, rape and extrajudicial executions.

The vast majority of the disappeared were men suspected of supporting the 17 February Revolution, but women were not excluded.



One is Sukaina al-Hadi Hares, a 37-year-old nurse, who was detained on two occasions during the conflict.

Sukaina was arrested at the Tajoura Heart Hospital, her workplace of 17 years, by three men in plainclothes at 3pm on 12 June. She suspects that colleagues tipped off security agents loyal to Colonel al-Gaddafi. Her crime was making copies of flyers warning supporters of the anti-al-Gaddafi uprising about ironically informants.

She was driven to a place she did not know, where she was interrogated and beaten while blindfolded.

Sukaina told Amnesty International: They sat me down on a chair, and the questions and slaps kept raining down. Every time they did not like an answer, they would slap me across the face. They then started beating me with a rubber hose on my back, tights and arms. They wanted to know who else in the hospital was sympathetic to the rats as they call the thuuwar (revolutionaries). They kept asking who gave me the flyer; and they wanted me to denounce the doctors at the Heart Hospital who delivered medical supplies to the thuuwar. They threatened to rape me if I didnt confess but I kept telling them that I found the flyer on the ground They called me a rat and a whore.

more... http://livewire.amnesty.org/2011/09/05/women-who-defied... /

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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
86. China Ties to Suffer If Arms Sold to Qaddafi, Libya Chiefs Say
China Ties to Suffer If Arms Sold to Qaddafi, Libya Chiefs Say
Libya's relations with China will suffer if there is confirmation of a report that Chinese state companies offered to sell Muammar Qaddafi $200 million worth of arms during the rebellion, the North African nation's new leaders said.

"If indeed the Chinese government agreed to sell arms to Qaddafi only a month ago, definitely it will affect our relationship with China," the National Transitional Council's finance minister, Ali Al Tarhouni, told Al Jazeera television yesterday. The outcome would be "not favorable," he said.

Tarhouni was speaking in response to a story by Toronto's Globe and Mail newspaper, whose reporter in Tripoli said he found Qaddafi-government documents suggesting Chinese companies offered to sell to surface-to-air missiles designed to bring down aircraft, in addition to other weapons and munitions.

The Arabic-language documents, copies of which were posted on the newspaper's website on Sept. 4, include details of a trip to Beijing by Libyan security officials to discuss the possible purchase of weapons on July 16, when Libya was six months into the conflict and under a United Nations arms embargo.


I seem to recall this meeting, actually. If I recall it was done under the guise of humanitarian negotiation, etc. I'll have to look it up, because there were several meetings with Chinese diplomats. It is in China's interest for the west to be continually at war, if they could have helped prolong the conflict it would've been good for them.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
87. MI6 knew I was tortured, says Libyan rebel leader
MI6 knew I was tortured, says Libyan rebel leader
A Libyan rebel leader who was rendered to Tripoli with the assistance of MI6 said on Monday that he had told British intelligence officers he was being tortured but they did nothing to help him.

In a claim that will increase the pressure for further disclosure about the UK's role in torture and rendition since 9/11, Abdul Hakim Belhaj said a team of British interrogators used hand signals to indicate they understood what he was telling them.

"I couldn't believe they could let this go on," he said. "What has happened deserves a full inquiry."

Belhaj was detained by the CIA in Thailand in 2004 following an MI6 tipoff, allegedly tortured, then flown to Tripoli, where he says he suffered years of abuse in one of Muammar Gaddafi's prisons.


Libya is not going to trust the MI6 / CIA operation in the future, it just isn't going to happen. Anyone who even has remote ties to the MI6 / CIA apparatus will be highly suspect.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
88. Libya: Media on the frontlines of revolution
Bookmark to watch this video when you have time (it's 25:08).


Source: Al Jazeera




A look at the pictures, the media coverage and the lobbyists working behind the scenes to keep Arab leaders in power.

Listening Post Last Modified: 03 Sep 2011 10:19



Throughout the Arab Spring the narrative of democratic change sweeping through the Arab world played well in the international media. And in Libya those opposing the Gaddafi regime had a territorial base in Benghazi and spokespeople in the public eye that could engage with the media.


When they marched on Tripoli the media followed, ostensibly embedded with the rebel fighters. That proximity helped the leaders of Libya's National Transitional Council (NTC) control the media message. But now that the Gaddafi regime has fallen and the country is in the hands of the NTC, journalists are having to shift their focus. No longer is the narrative dominated by the fight for Libya but rather who and what is left to run it.


Quick hits from Newsbytes: The government in Syria amends the country's media laws but critics are not impressed; a former policeman is charged with plotting the murder of Russian journalist Anna Politkovskaya; an Ecuadorian journalist flees the country after being found guilty of libelling President Correa; and WikiLeaks claims its website was cyber-attacked in the wake of its biggest release so far of confidential US diplomatic cables.


Since the beginning of the Arab revolutions, embattled regimes have faced a barrage of criticism in the press. To counter this, Arab dictators have employed the services of western PR companies to clean up their image. Consulting companies like the Washington-based Qorvis Communications and the London-based Bell Pottinger have been quietly working for governments in Yemen, Syria and Bahrain.


For these companies, as the bad press has grown worse for these governments, business for them has improved. But their work has pushed them into unfamiliar territory under the spotlight and some have had to defend their business deals. The Listening Post's Meenakshi Ravi takes a look at the spin-doctors working behind the scenes in the Arab spring (25:08):


http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/listeningpost/2...




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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
89. Libya rebels hold off on attacking Gadhafi bastion
Libya rebels hold off on attacking Gadhafi bastion
TARHOUNA, Libya (AP) Thousands of rebel fighters closed in around one of Libya's last pro-Gadhafi strongholds Monday, but held back on a final assault in hopes of avoiding a bloody battle for the town of Bani Walid.

The standoff came as rebel leaders in Tripoli said Libya's transition to democratic rule would begin with a "declaration of liberation" that was unlikely to come before Gadhafi's forces last strongholds were defeated and the fugitive former dictator had been captured.

The declaration would mark the start of an eight-month deadline for Libya's transitional council to arrange the vote for a national assembly, and eventually to a constitution and general elections.

"When the clock starts ticking on those eight months remains to be seen," rebel spokesman Jalal el-Gallal said, adding it wasn't yet clear how liberation would be defined.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #89
91. Who wound up Josh? :)
Nice to see you got off early for a change. Besides, I can use all the help I can get here--I've been kinda swamped. :)

:hi:
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #91
93. Go take a break, I'm checking things. I bet it'll be a slow week this week.
PS it's labor day, so technically I'm late, as usual! (Had brunch with my bro and his family.)
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #93
95. I'm glad you enjoyed your day
I need to run out anyway.

Mindful of the Rev's negative impact on my eating habits and nutrition, I had picked up a nice Ribeye and all the fixings--including a bottle of Cabernet--for a good home-cooked meal. But on arriving home, I broke the bottle of wine just before crossing the threshold :( . So I need to make a shopping run, 'cause I'm grilling that sucker tonight and I so had my heart set on having a glass of wine--or two!--with it. :)
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #89
94. Related: Standoff Continues Between Rebels and Qaddafi Loyalists
Standoff Continues Between Rebels and Qaddafi Loyalists
Rebel negotiators have resumed talks with loyalist holdouts in the desert town of Bani Walid in an effort to persuade them to surrender peacefully before a Sept. 10 deadline set by the interim government, Libyan officials said Monday.

Striking notes of increasing confidence, rebel officials announced they had made progress on several nonmilitary fronts. A group of rebel officials took a visiting United Nations envoy on a tour of their main detention center, Jadida Prison, while others announced that water service had been restored to Tripoli, and the governments acting economy minister said badly needed cash had begun flowing in from abroad after some of the countrys foreign bank accounts were unfrozen.

Those efforts to restore normalcy plowed ahead even in the continued absence of the rebels top leadership, who remain either in the eastern city of Benghazi or abroad. Only 14 of the 42 members of the National Transitional Council have come to Tripoli as yet.

Rebel forces continued to observe a one-week extension given to Bani Walid to surrender, by Sept. 10, and the rebels acting minister of defense, Jalal al-Dghaili, said talks with regime supporters there were continuing, according to the chairman of the transitional councils media committee, Jalil Elgallal. Rebel attention was focused on Bani Walid because figures from the Qaddafi government were last seen fleeing there, about 100 miles southeast of Tripoli.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
92. Libya mission closer to end: Rasmussen
Source: Hurriyet (Turkey)(Compiled from AP and AFP)



Monday, September 5, 2011

BRUSSELS / TARHOUNA


NATOs mission in Libya has moved significantly closer to success and will end soon, the military alliances secretary general said on Monday.

Our operation to protect civilians has moved significantly closer to success, but we are not there yet, Anders Fogh Rasmussen told a news conference. It will be up to NATOs decision-making body, the North Atlantic Council, to determine when Operation Unified Protector can end, based on the assessment of military commanders, he said.

While he said he could not give a precise date for the missions end, Rasmussen said: I believe it will come soon. The ability of the rebel National Transitional Council, or NTC, to protect civilians will be a key factor in the decision, he said. The fugitive Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafis capture would not be a decisive factor, the NATO chief added.

...

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=libya-mission-...





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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
96. Gaddafi Regime Official Escapes to Niger
7 hours 42 min ago - Libya

The head of Muammar Gaddafi's security brigades, Mansour Dhao, has crossed into Niger from Libya and is due to travel on to the Nigerien capital, Niamey, two Nigerien officials said on Monday.

The officials, who asked not to be named, said Dhao and about a dozen other Libyans crossed into Niger on Sunday after
several days of talks while they waited at the border. - Reuters

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
97. LIBYAN REVOLUTION DAY 201: CURRENT TIME IN LIBYA = 12:20 AM TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 6
Libya time = EDT +6 hours, PDT +9 hours, UTC +1 hour, GMT +2 hours










Inside one of Gaddafi's torture cells
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2030931/Libya-I...
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
100. Libyan forces mass outside stubborn town



Mon Sep 5, 2011 7:52pm GMT


Conflicting messages on surrender talks

China denies knowing of Gaddafi arms offers

New government dealing with first problems


By Maria Golovnina


NORTH OF BANI WALID, Libya, Sept 5 (Reuters) - Libyan forces massed on Monday outside a pro-Gaddafi desert town that has refused to surrender, building a field hospital in preparation for a possible last stand.

On-off talks involving tribal elders from Bani Walid, south of Tripoli, and a fog of contradictory messages in recent days reflect the complexities of dismantling the remnants of Gaddafi's 42-year rule and building a new political system.

At a military checkpoint some 60 km (40 miles) north of the town on the road to the capital, Abdallah Kanshil, who is running talks for the interim government, told journalists a peaceful handover was coming soon. Nevertheless, a dozen vehicles carrying NTC fighters arrived at the checkpoint.

"The surrender of the city is imminent," he said. "It is a matter of avoiding civilian casualties. Some snipers have surrendered their weapons ... Our forces are ready."

...


But 20 km closer to the town, NTC forces built a field hospital and installed 10 volunteer doctors to prepare for the possibility that Gaddafi loyalists would not give up.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7K53LJ20...




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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
101. Week 29 part 3 here:
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