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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 02:32 AM
Original message
Libyan rebels round up black Africans
Edited on Fri Sep-02-11 02:33 AM by EFerrari
APBy BEN HUBBARD - Associated Press | AP 15 hrs ago

TRIPOLI, Libya (AP) Rebel forces and armed civilians are rounding up thousands of black Libyans and migrants from sub-Sahara Africa, accusing them of fighting for ousted strongman Moammar Gadhafi and holding them in makeshift jails across the capital.

Virtually all of the detainees say they are innocent migrant workers, and in most cases there is no evidence that they are lying. But that is not stopping the rebels from placing the men in facilities like the Gate of the Sea sports club, where about 200 detainees all black clustered on a soccer field this week, bunching against a high wall to avoid the scorching sun.

Handling the prisoners is one of the first major tests for the rebel leaders, who are scrambling to set up a government that they promise will respect human rights and international norms, unlike the dictatorship they overthrew.

The rebels' National Transitional Council has called on fighters not to abuse prisoners and says those accused of crimes will receive fair trials.There has been little credible evidence of rebels killing or systematically abusing captives during the six-month conflict. Still, the African Union and Amnesty International have protested the treatment of blacks inside Libya, saying there is a potential for serious abuse.

http://news.yahoo.com/libyan-rebels-round-black-african...
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 05:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. Recommend
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 05:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. this has all the makings of a massacre
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Harmony Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Yeah...and this time there is no AU for anyone to use
as an excuse to dismiss this story. Too much noise about this is deeply unsettling to me.

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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
34. let's hope not.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
3. But but but
I saw the humanitarians grinning on my TV yesterday
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lillypaddle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 06:32 AM
Response to Original message
4. It never stops,
not even for a minute. :mad:
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
5. Is AP on the approved list?
:sarcasm:
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Harmony Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. How about Amnesty International?
:sarcasm:
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. Obviously brainwashed shills.
:sarcasm:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. This situation was all over the American black press for weeks
before it finally broke through in the so call mainstream outlets. CSM, Business Week, CNN finialy said something and now AP.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Yep. I've been following it too.
And the calls to shut the conversation down on the grounds that everyone is lying have been rather crazy-making.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. It has been crazy making because you want to be careful
and not spread awful rumors but there's a tipping point where the same stuff is coming out of too many places to be nothing.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #19
33. it's been all over socialist press since February; no surprises here nt

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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
8. Yes indeed....

"freedom fighters" my ass.
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al bupp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
9. Unlike Gaddafi's prisons, AI, AU and foreign journalists have access
We shall see, but I would give the NTC the benefit of the doubt that the right thing will be done, and the large majority will be released. In the meantime, quoting the article, "There has been little credible evidence of rebels killing or systematically abusing captives during the six-month conflict".
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court jester Donating Member (232 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. why would anyone give the NTC the benefit of the doubt about anything
especially after:

"Libyan rebels say commander killed by allied militia"
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/29/us-libya-idUS...
http://youtu.be/FjFZwUB-Pk0

The world only "knows" the things that they have been told about these "rebels" through mostly biased reporting and anonymous tweets, which is amazing and somewhat amusing in itself.

Good luck with that.



Why was Hillary Clinton giving millions to Gaddafi?
http://tinoire.com/wp/?p=2784
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al bupp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. So far about 60 countries have decided to give them the benefit of a doubt
This includes notables such as Russia and a number of African countries. I think it's unlikely that all these countries based their vetting of the NTC solely on anonymous tweets. There have been many independent reports about who the revolutionaries are that do not shy away from the difficulties, and complexities of the situation. To paint them all as biased reveals to me a bias in its own right.

And, welcome to DU.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Of course the coverage has been horrendously skewed.
The story is "brave rebels take on monster", no one is going to go out of their way to make sure the "monster" gets fair coverage and deviate from the narrative. Last weekend I caught AJE talking about Nato reports and Gaddafi propaganda without a shred of self-consciousness.
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al bupp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. And yet you cite an AP article in the OP
How is it that they somehow escaped the "horrendously skewed" standard and approved narrative? Perhaps it's the "stopped clock syndrome", or just a rare winking nod fairness?

This article (from a South African news channel) is a well-written response to the various charges of hypocracy in the media regarding Libya.

The real hypocrites
by Mark Schultz
2011-08-31 11:12

I have been reading, with some distaste I might add, the constant harping on by certain sections of the international community about the Libyan situation.

Most of the arguments regarding so-called forced regime change, respecting a nations sovereignty and media lies and/or conspiracies can quite easily be turned on their heads to protect any oppressive regime, even our favourite whipping boys Malan, Botha et Al.

Consider the South African situation for a moment, an oppressive regime that lasted from 1948 to 1994 where racism was legalized. When the ANC and then OAU protested against the wests sanctions and isolation tactics, they used similar arguments that the AU uses today to defend Gaddafi. Lets compare in point form some of the hallmarks of both regimes.

South Africa, under apartheid, destabilized the surrounding countries by assisting friendly forces such as RENAMO in Mozambique and UNITA in Angola. There were South African military personnel in Southern Zimbabwe. South African operatives committed terror attacks in other countries to remove political opponents. Many bombs were planted.



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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. I gave no pass the AP, who manages to claim that there is no evidence
of widespread abuse WHILE it reports that black people are being sequestered in camps.

In fact, if you search my posts, you'll find my nick for them is "Authorized Propaganda".

You assume too much and too easily.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Oh, and that article is an attack on the AU, not on media hypocrisy.

And his small point about the AU, which may or may not obtain, doesn't generalize to the South African comparison in the media. TPTB and their lapdog media defended the apartheid government for all they were worth.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #20
39. Yawn.
Your whining about the poor, oppressed dictator has gotten so tiresome.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. You'd do better here if you learned how to read. n/t
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. Send a letter to the CIA.
They probably feel sorry for their old buddy, too!

:cry: :cry: :cry:
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sad sally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
36. Here's another story to give you pause to wonder about US ties to Libya.
By Patrick Cockburn
Friday, 2 September
AP
Tripoli's notorious Abu Salim jail

The overthrow of Gaddafi has brought together strange allies, but few stranger than Abdulhakim Belhaj, the military commander of all rebel military forces in Tripoli, and Nato. An Islamist whom Gaddafi tried to have the US list as a terrorist, Mr Belhaj says he was tortured by CIA agents after being arrested in the Far East in 2004 and later handed over by them to Colonel Gaddafi for further torture and imprisonment in Libya.

Mr Belhaj, the head of the military council for Tripoli, who led an Islamist guerrilla organisation fighting the Gaddafi regime in the 1990s, told The Independent in an interview that he had been directly "tortured by CIA agents" in Thailand after being first arrested in Malaysia.

If true, his story is evidence of the close co-operation between the CIA and Colonel Gaddafi's security services after the Libyan leader denounced the 9/11 attacks. After his stint in the hands of the CIA, Mr Belhaj was kept in Abu Salim prison in Tripoli. He says: "I was in prison for seven years during which I was subjected to torture as well as solitary confinement. I was even denied a shower for three years." Other Libyan Islamist prisoners have related how they were sometimes taken from Abu Salim to be questioned by US officials in Tripoli.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/rebel-mi...

Related articles
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
10. They must be terrfied
I hope that someone in charge can keep it from becoming a massacre.
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
11. The systemic human rights violations have already started
What else could be expected from a band of roving murderers?
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Harmony Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. They are armed now...with even
some high tech rifles from Germany that they found in an armory in Tripoli. It will be interesting to see how the transitional council keeps this together.



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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
14. kick
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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
16. Two key things in that article
"There has been little credible evidence of rebels killing or systematically abusing captives" as opposed to the well documented evidence of Gadhafi's abuses.

"the African Union and Amnesty International have protested the treatment of blacks inside Libya, saying there is a potential for serious abuse" POTENTIAL for serious abuse is bad, but better than Amnesty International assessment of Gadhafi's government.

Bottom line: No credible evidence of serious abuse and only a situation for potential abuse. Seems like a big step up from what the Libyans have been dealing with.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Being rounded up because you are black is abuse.
Migrants suffer in Tripoli camps
Black Libyans and migrants are stuck in Tripoli in squalid conditions and threats of violence.
Evan Hill in Libya Last Modified: 02 Sep 2011 06:13

Three years ago, Anthony Ogiexeri came to Libya from Nigeria in search of a better life. He moved into Tripoli's rough Abu Salim neighbourhood where he met his wife, had a child, and found work as a bricklayer.

In Libya, he earned several times the roughly $190-a-month salary he would find in Nigeria. The country's relative stability and oil-backed economy meant Ogiexeri could take care of himself, his new family and save for the future.

All that is gone now, swept away by revolution. Ogiexeri is trapped, along with hundreds of other sub-Saharan Africans, in a squatter camp at an abandoned port facility on Tripoli's western fringes, afraid to venture out for fear of reprisals and suffering in squalor as they wait for help.

Elsewhere in the capital, black Libyans and other migrants are being arrested on sight and imprisoned by armed residents, rebel fighters and untrained officials who have assumed localised control of security in the wake of Muammar Gaddafi's defeat and disappearance.


http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/09/201191...
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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Never said it wasn't.
I said as bad it is, it's still a major improvement from Gaddafi's Amnesty International record.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Not for the people who are stuck in camps and afraid to go get food.
The comparison trivializes what is happening. Atrocities don't cancel each other out.

The AP, my point, is too cavalier in claiming there is no evidence of abuse when black people are being hauled into camps.

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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. It is for the people released as political prisoners
Alas, it's too late for the folks that died before he was thrown out of power.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. So you have nothing to say about the rebels rounding up black people?
What a disgusting use of other people's misery to score political points.
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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. What political points?
I'm not a politician.

I'm just quoting from the article you posted using your OP source "There has been little credible evidence of rebels killing or systematically abusing captives". If you think this isn't correct, or the source is wrong, then why did you post it?

As for the rebels, I'm not condoning their actions either. Do they truly suspect these people to be mercenaries or is it some racial thing? I don't know. I suspect you don't either.
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al bupp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
35. And here I thought Aljazeera was another shameless propaganda organ
Yet here they bringing the situation to our attention. Seems like there are some particularly inept propagandists there in Doha.

As bad this situation is, at least they're not being shelled the way refugees were in the camps of Misrata back in the spring by Gaddafi's forces.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. The memory of that is still quite fresh.
Never forget.

Aljazeera is a beacon of truth and remains so.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. Another opportunist, minimizing the suffering of others
to score. Disgusting.
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al bupp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-11 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. When all else fails, one can simply turn on the messenger /nt
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
37. FYI the "mainstream news" has reported on isolated black African abuses for months.
So far there has been no evidence of systematic abuse. It's always isolated. Black African's in Benghazi being treated unfairly, some targeted early on. I won't even play the "Gaddafi did worse" game, despite that most of these people who are so appalled have been effectively silent on those atrocities (I bet they couldn't even name one).

The more nuanced view is one might take is that if Gaddafi were truly a harbinger of anti-racist sentiment, as the "King of Africa" why do some in the Libyan population undeniably have a resentment and suspicion toward them? It's primarily because Gaddafi fomented it throughout the years.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #16
44. Human rights orgs have interviewed some of the Black Africans
who are banding together in camps and have been told that some of the women have been raped. Many, trying to get out of the country, have been attacked and robbed of their savings, and are now stuck there. Others have been rounded up and are now in jail. And of course there are the ones who have been killed, accused of being 'mercenaries'.

This is NOT new news, but many did not want to hear it. From the beginning, and one of the reasons I stopped supporting this 'revolution' the Human Rights Orgs were reporting rapes, disappearances and brutality towards the African workers. Many were beaten and there were even photos, but anyone who tried to talk about it was told to basically 'stfu'.

A couple of photos from the past week:



The body of a suspected mercenary



Suspected mercenaries detained by rebels

Lots of photos like these taken during the fighting. But I'm afraid that the rebels will be advised to block access to them to protect their image. I hope they can be persuaded to refrain from any more violence towards these people most of whom were in Libya just trying to make a living.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
18. Phase Two coming up next.
The Western "Peacekeepers" will have to put "Boots on the Ground" for "Humanitarian Reasons"
to ensure a "Fair Election",
but the Libyans WILL have to vote for whoever WE say,
Purple Fingers and ALL,
or it won't be a "Fair Election",
Just Like Iraq or Afghanistan.

Then Libya will be turned into a Free market HELL
with the Global Oil Corporations, Global Banks, and the IMF OWNING EVERY-FUCKING-THING,
just like Iraq.

This plan has been tested, and works well.
Naomi Klein laid it out perfectly.

The only thing that surprises me is that so many unquestioningly BOUGHT the propaganda AGAIN
so easily so soon after Iraq.
"Its OK if Obama does it" had a lot to do with that.
"They" didn't even change the marketing slogans for this new NeoLiberal acquisition to The Empire.
They just scratched out "Saddam" and penciled in "Gaddafi",
If you're not FOR the New WAR in Libya,
you're WITH The Communists AlQaeda The Terrorists Saddam Qaddafi!!!



For all his dictatorial megalomania, Gaddafi is a committed pan-African - a fierce defender of African unity. Libya was not in debt to international bankers. It did not borrow cash from the International Monetary Fund for any "structural adjustment". It used oil money for social services - including the Great Man Made River project, and investment/aid to sub-Saharan countries. Its independent central bank was not manipulated by the Western financial system. All in all a very bad example for the developing world.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MD27Ak01.html


Man, that was some "No Fly Zone" we perpetrated on the Libyans.
Now, the Global Fat Cats get the Oil, AND everything else,
AND, the biggest roadblock stopping the predatory IMF from looting Africa of its resources has been removed.

The Obama Administration's Justification for Starting a New War without Congressional Approval
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejvyDn1TPr8


You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #18
45. And next up, Syria!
With the same formula. And people will fall for it, although if Bush were president they wouldn't.

And if you don't support it, you are a 'Dictator Lover'. Just like Iraq, even down to the propaganda talking points to 'deal' with those who refuse to go along. But, we're pretty experienced 'dictator lovers' now.

And when they're done in Africa, they'll be back in South America. Not they left or stopped with the propaganda. Colonialists can never have enough.
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stockholmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #18
47. +1000, great post
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
25. If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes...
Meet the new boss, etc..

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stockholmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
46. I have been posting on this since March
Guardian UK-Libya's spectacular revolution's been disgraced by racism(rebels killing black Africans)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

US aiding racist rebels and Al-Qeada in Libya ( 2 videos and links)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al-Qaeda links

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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