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Juan Cole: NATO Refuses Ground Troops for Libya as “Friends” Conference Opens

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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 12:16 PM
Original message
Juan Cole: NATO Refuses Ground Troops for Libya as “Friends” Conference Opens
A NATO official has told Agence France Presse that it is the “firm view” of NATO member states that they reject the idea of sending any ground troops to Libya. And, they want the UN to authorize any extension of the no-fly zone.

Gee, it doesn’t sound to me as though NATO is the kind of grasping, occupying imperialist power it has been painted by opponents of the UN intervention.

China is now moving vigorously to seek a position in post-Qaddafi Libya, even though it was lukewarm about the UN intervention against the former dictator.

The new government says it will honor all legal contracts entered into by the previous regime, which appears to be meant to reassure China and Russia about their investments in the country.

http://www.juancole.com/2011/09/nato-refuses-ground-tro...

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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. The upshot -- the left...
Edited on Thu Sep-01-11 12:27 PM by Davis_X_Machina
...doesn't actually believe in R2P.

It's ironic -- the last place you see a rousing defense of the Westphalian nation state is from the spiritual grandchildren of the Second International.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. If the choice is between global capital and the state, of course. n/t
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Qadaffi was pumping oil like Billy-be-damned...
...and the Libyan successor state will continue to do the same. I don't see why global capital has anything to complain about.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. You mean besides its bottomless greed?
:)
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. That's not *their* complaint -- that's ours.
Not everything can be reduced to demotic Marxism, or filtered through the Iraq experience....
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Indeed, Iraq was only the (next to) last chapter in a long string
of earlier similar behavior. :)
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. Libya buys 50,000 T Russian wheat

Thu Sep 1, 2011 3:42pm GMT


• Grain purchases by Libya set to pick up

• Uncertainty over security at Libyan ports


By Aleksandras Budrys and Jonathan Saul


MOSCOW/LONDON, Sept 1 (Reuters) - Libya has bought 50,000 tonnes of Russian wheat, a grain tracking firm said on Thursday, indicating commercial deals are picking up after months of war and that Moscow may not suffer from not supporting the fight to oust leader Muammar Gaddafi.

...


Trade and shipping sources told Reuters this week Libya was aiming to import 500,000 tonnes of wheat and 400,000 tonnes of flour in the next two to three months, although western sanctions on Gaddafi and worries over port security will hinder the pace of shipments.


"The Libyans need a lot of grain and Russia is providing the market with lots very cheaply. People expect Russian wheat and flour to be sold into Libya in large volumes as it is much cheaper than other origins," said a European trader.


"Grain is an anonymous product and because it is not so visible the Russians are not likely to suffer from their support of the old Gaddafi government. I think the Russians will sell more in coming days and weeks."

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7K11R220...




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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. Never doubted it. The U.N., NATO and Pres. Obama did the right thing. Thanks for the facts.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. AP has an article out today.
snip

"Hague insisted nations were not embarking on a scramble to seize the spoils of a newly free Libya — including lucrative oil contracts — but acknowledged many would hope to capitalize on the opportunities for new trade."

snip

"The council is expected to present a detailed list of requests at the conference, which comes 42 years to the day after Gadhafi seized power in a coup. It may seek short-term loans from the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank, U.S. officials said. While they do not want international peacekeepers, the rebels may seek a civilian U.N. police presence, they said."

snip

"Instead of aid for Libya, the financial focus at Thursday's conference will be on unfreezing assets linked to Gadhafi in banks worldwide.The money was blocked by a U.N. resolution earlier this year aimed at persuading Gadhafi to stop his violent crackdown on anti-government protests."

http://news.yahoo.com/world-conference-libya-urges-un-r...

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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. Well, shit... why'd we even bomb them if we're not gonna take their oil?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. There's no water in Tripoli but these people are getting together
to figure out how to unfreeze Libya's assets. You do the math. lol
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Perhaps some of that frozen money...
...is destined to, you know, fix the water system.

The people who actually live there may not want to play footsie with epidemic gastro-intestinal illness in order to provide us with an edifying moral spectacle.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. People who live there have no choice in the matter at this point. n/t
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Unfreezing assets is critical to funding resolution of humanitarian issues
They've been working to resolve water issues--caused by Gaddafi forces shutting off supplies to Tripoli as they withdrew--for days, and for at least 2 days an EU team of humanitarian experts have been working with Libyan engineers and repair crews. It's been a bit complicated, with Gaddafi troops firing on them. In the meantime, they've been bringing water in from Tunisia.

If Libya had a Tea Party, it probably would love to see the NTC put in the position of having to provide government services and pay workers without having access to government funds. :)

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. 1.5 billion released by UN, reported 8/25:
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. $1.5 Bn. would fund government spending for less than 12 days
Based on the regime's 2010 budget without emergency conditions and humanitarian crisis.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Might want to get on the phone with State then
and inform them because they explicitly told the AP they are not working on aid to Libya right now.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. The U.S. has released $1.5 Bn. so far
Nearly half of that already has been delivered.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. So you are happy about how the UN is handling this, then?
Good. :)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. My respect for the UN is at an all time low for the shameful way
they have colluded in this adventure. On the other hand, the UN's behavior is a function of the corruption of the Security Council so there's no use faulting the paper tiger.

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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. But releasing the money is clearly the right thing to do, isn't it?
We do agree on that, don't we?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. I hope so.
I've read reports about the hospitals around the capital that are so bad, I didn't want to post them here. Whoever is in charge right now, I hope they really do something about the mess they have made and fast, too.

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sad sally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
28. Typical war operations. Bomb the crap out of the infrastructure, let citizens suffer for a period
of time - days, months, years however long it takes (no water, no electricity, sewer and garbage pile up), spend billions to rebuild - sounds like good old western war know-how.

The Great Man-made River inaugurated in August 1991, phase I provides two million daily cubic meters of water along a 1,200 km pipeline from As-Sarir and Tazerbo to Benghazi and Sirt, via the Ajdabiya reservoir. Phase II delivers one million daily cubic meters from the Fezzan region to the fertile Jeffara plain in the Western coastal belt, also supplying Tripoli.

BENGHAZI, Libya, 29 August 2011 – As sporadic fighting continues across Libya, the country is facing a potentially disastrous water shortage. The crisis results mainly from disruptions of the pipeline network that serves desert areas lacking local water sources.

Known as the Great Man-made River, the network carries water from more than 1,300 deep wells in the Nubian sandstone aquifer system in the south. Normally, the pipelines provide 6.5 cubic metres of fresh water per day to Tripoli, Benghazi, Sirt and other areas.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. NATO bombing had nothing to do with the water shortage
Gaddafi forces cut off the water supply as they withdrew:


A team of humanitarian experts sent to Tripoli by the European Union is trying to help restore water supply cut by Gaddafi forces. If it fails the EU is working on a plan to send bottled and tanked water to Tripoli.

In an email to the Guardian a spokeswoman for the EU humanitarian office Echo, said: "The disruption of the drinking water supply to Tripoli is a major issue affecting the capital's population. Government forces closed the pumping stations in Jebel Hassouna (on the north-south route from Tripoli to Sabbah) when fleeing from the capital."

She added: "Efforts are ongoing to restart the water distribution system, but the security situation along the road to the pumping stations is unpredictable. It is therefore uncertain when the full water supply will be resumed."

...


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2011/a...



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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #29
47. You mean, NATO had nothing to do with it except for the fanning
of protests into a civil war?

Good grief.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-11 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. NATO didn't get resolve Misrata for 4 months. So that's just blatently false.
Misrata would've likely be still besieged at this day, and the Libyan people would be on full on urban warfare for years.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
13. I guess those British, French and Qatari commandos don't count.

What posturing.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. This episode taught me one thing, I'll never trust Juan Cole again
on anything, not even to tell the time.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. More on Juan Cole...
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Thanks, I tried to read that last night but it was swamped. n/t
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. What an absolutely dispicible article. Just beyond the pale.
The CIA spies on Juan Cole and somehow Cole is a "CIA consultant." Indeed, the CIA was in fact spying on Juan Cole to discredit him. Juan Cole says that,

I never had a direct contract with the CIA, but some of the thinktanks that, every once in a while, asked me to speak were clearly letting analysts and field officers know about the presentations (which were most often academic panels of a sort that would be mounted at any academic conference), and they attended. I should underline that these presentations involved small travel expenses and a small honorarium, and that I wasn't a high-paid consultant but clearly was expected to speak my views and share my conclusions frankly. It was not a regular gig.


Juan Cole talks about Middle East stuff, think tanks that the CIA uses for information attend, Juan Cole is a "consultant for the CIA"? This is Ministry of Truth level shit here, total revisionism, totally blatantly dishonest and manipulative lying propaganda.

CounterPunch's John Walsh writes in the vile article linked,

Now, with over 1 million Iraqis dead, 4 million displaced and the country's infrastructure destroyed, might Cole still echo Madeline Albright that the price was "worth it"? Cole has called the Afghan War "the right war at the right time" and has emerged as a cheerleader for Obama's unconstitutional war on Libya and for Obama himself.


Which is just utterly wrong and preposterous given Cole's later position on the Iraq War and his unfaltering criticism for the wars in both Iraq and Afghanistan. He still maintains that he believes some wars can be fought for good, but he considers Bush's actions a complete failure. No one is perfect but Cole is the last person you'd expect to "cheerlead" the Iraq nightmare.

What I find interesting is how supposed champions of non-propagandist media consider this article actually worth ones time. It's a lying article full of vile and sick innendos with no evidence whatsoever which anyone with a lick of sense can discredit.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Ha, so surprised you'd say that....

hmm, hmm, hmm....
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #32
42. lol! nope, no surprises here.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. That is Counter-Punch, Sir: Wreckers And Splinterists Of the Worst water
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. since when? based on what, uh, evidence/clues? very curious, hope you will indulge.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. Years Of Exposure To The Rag, Ma'am
It is even a cut below the W.S.W.S....
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-11 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. in other words, that is just your completely subjective and biased opinion. got it.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. The transcript is from Amy's show. n/t
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-11 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. The transcript doesn't represent Walsh's lies.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-11 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #38
50. To be sure, the CIA is likely attending *Chomsky's* talks, too.
That doesn't make Chomsky a CIA lackey.
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Prometheus Bound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #20
33. Like a neocon, never saw a war he didn't like.
I'll never read him again either.
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Waiting For Everyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #20
34. O. M. G. Are you effing kidding me?
From the Counterpunch link (author writes about Cole):

"It is strange that a man who claims such (Left) views dismisses as irrelevant the progress that has come to the people of Libya under Gaddafi, dictator or not."

Get a clue, people. Gaddafi, the benevolent dictator, huh? And you talk about credibility? There's a real ethical breakdown here among some at DU.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Keep on drinking the koolaid.

He ain't no peach but he has brought significant material benefit to Libya. His policies towards women ain't perfect but are a marked improvement over the region in general, the 'rebels' are largely religious conservatives.

There have surely been injustices, there are injustices in this country every day. But the people in general are better off than they would be or will be under a toady of global capital.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. absurd demonization of gaddafi is beyond pathetic. fail.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-11 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #39
52. Gaddafi, the CIA rendition asset?
:rofl:
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War Horse Donating Member (314 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
27. But this HAS to be about imperialism
Because Iraq.

Plenty of low-hanging fruit: France wanted to display their Mirages, they wanted to show that they could get their war on too.

Yet the choices seem to be imperialism, or (somewhat more credible, except Gadaffi seemed to pump and export as much as possible) a war for oil.

There's no way NATO could simply be pragmatic, is there? They did this because they could. Just like there's no way in Hell there will be an intervention in Syria, just not doable.

And yes, getting rid of a brutal dictator is the "easy" part. Results may vary...
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
30. I'm so reassured.
Some anonymous blogger says, "everything is okay here" while the building burns down behind him.

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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
36. juan cole has zero credibility. negative credibility, in fact.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Since When, Ma'am?
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. credibility with the anti-war left, i should've quaified.

since his war-mongering and cheer leading for imperialism became blatantly obvious, to answer your question.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. So, In Other Words, Ma'am, He Remains a Very Credible And Knowledgeable Commentator
Edited on Fri Sep-02-11 10:14 PM by The Magistrate
That knowledge of the region simply leads him to say things you do not agree with.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #37
45. For me, since he forwarded a shallow and dishonest argument
for this war. More recently, it was reported on Democracy Now! that he consults for the CIA.

I don't care so much about that. I already thought he was an @sshole for talking about this situation as if NATO or the Western Powers had ever intervened anywhere militarily to bring that snipe, democracy, to another people.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-11 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #45
48. heh, 'snipe hunt'...

very good. :thumbsup:
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