you know what? if Obama stands up to Cantor, then have his back

[scheming daemons]

And don't come here bitching that FEMA isn't helping people.

There are two possible outcomes here:

1. Obama stands up to Cantor. The result is that the GOP house will not approve new FEMA money.

2. Obama caves and FEMA gets funds.


With the intransigent House in control of the purse strings, as the constitution mandates, those are the only two possible outcomes.

Don't complain about #2 unless you're willing to live with #1.

This is where the Obama critics show how unreasonable they are, since they will bash him in EITHER case.

Personally, I want him to stand up to Cantor, but I don't live in a disaster area that won't get funds as a result.

[kentuck]

1. This is the type of thinking that has put Democrats in a hole....

Let the people put the pressure on the Republicans, not the White House. After all, it is the people that need the help and the House is the representatives of the people. Put the pressure on the Congress, not on the White House. This is such destructive thinking.

[MannyGoldstein]

6. Nonsense. It's not the President's job to apply pressure, or

to use the bully pulpit. Great Presidents know that they should just do whatever the other side wants.

http://www.uiowa.edu/commstud/resources/nonverbal/lbj.htm

[scheming daemons]

9. When he uses the bully pulpit, you scream "just words! Actions speak louder!"

Admit it, Manny.

[MannyGoldstein]

13. I say "it's a good first step, now let's see what he actually does"

Admit it, Schemer.

[scheming daemons]

15. No you wouldn't, if past history is any guide

You'd be all over Obama for not getting funds to FEMA.

[MannyGoldstein]

23. Only if he doesn't fight - feel free to use actual examples to show that I've

done otherwise.

Good luck.

[muffin1]

42. He never uses the bully pulpit to fight.

He speaks endlessly about bipartisanship, how (the GENERIC) Congress needs to "compromise" and "get things done".

Goddamn it all to hell. Tell the American people "I've had enough of the Republicans in Congress, and the Tea Party in particular". Call them the fuck out. Call them out by name.

FIGHT!!!!! I would absolutely "have his back" if he would only fight.

[scheming daemons]

7. Then the complaint will be "why isn't Obama showing leadership? "

You know it will be.

[kentuck]

8. So what.

You can't bend over every time you are criticized.

[scheming daemons]

11. So... tell me the action Obama can take here that

Won't result in him being bashed?

My point is... if he stands up to cantor, then we should have his back and accept the consequences of that action.

[kentuck]

16. The President tells the American people...

that it is the responsibility of Congress to vote funds for hurricane relief, it is not the responsibility of the White House. And he should encourage the citizens involved to contact their Congressmen and tell them they want immediate action. He should not step into that trap once again, foolishly and unnecessarily.

[scheming daemons]

19. Ok... and i am saying when he does, we should have his back

If he does that, I don't want to see any bashing here.


But I know there will be.

[kentuck]

26. Well, we can't expect everyone to walk lockstep but...

"if" he does that, a lot of people would have his back. He needs to put the Repubs on the defensive. Make them defend their positions. That is done by attacking not by compromise. Unfortunately, that is the only language the Repubs understand.

[hlthe2b]

2. I disagree. I believe this time the public, aided by RETHUG Governors

in affected states and other congressional legislators from affected states will stomp on Cantor if he continues to suggest blocking FEMA. Obama can and should use this to his full advantage. Cantor's petulance won't fly this time. It can't.

[scheming daemons]

17. No... those GOP officials will fall in line and blame Obama and FEMA.

[hlthe2b]

30. If Obama gives in, they surely will...

One has to use the tools provided you. In this case, Obama has the public and very "needy" impacted Governors in his corner, if he will simply use them.

BTW, though I appreciate your strong defense of your opinion, it is, after all, your opinion. I think you will get a lot more useful discussion, if you could acknowledge as such. As certain as you are, I don't really think you want to give the impression that you think everyone that disagrees with you to be a fool or worse--yet you are.

[kentuck]

31. I'm surprised that people here cannot recognize an advantage...

when it is laid in their lap.

[hlthe2b]

32. Frightening, isn't it...

as though we've just gotten beaten down by RETHUG tactics to such a degree we don't even TRY to stand back up. :shrug:

[kentuck]

33. Many DUers are being held hostage just like the President...

Give them everything they want. Maybe they won't shoot us?

[FSogol]

3. While you may be right, this issue is probably a no-win for the GOP.

Cantor should get his ass handed to him.

[kentuck]

5. The people affected by this disaster should visit their Congressman's office...

..and let him/her know what they expect. The people have a responsibility to hold their congressmen accountable. Then let them go to Washington and vote with Cantor. This is just like the unemployment extension issue that the Repubs used to get the Bush taxcuts extended. Sometimes you have to hold the line.

[scheming daemons]

18. Most of those people will blame Obama, not their congressman or cantor

[kentuck]

27. If you lie down and let the Repubs define it...

you may be right. If you don't want the fight, just surrender and give them what they want and get the aid to the people quicker, with whatever price has to be paid.

[no_hypocrisy]

4. Unexpected consequences.

If Cantor refuses to outright provide funds to FEMA, he risks having Chris Christie rear up and let HIM have it. And we all know Christie doesn't mince words. He doesn't care what people think about what he says.

[scheming daemons]

14. No.. christie will attack Obama for not working with cantor to get funds

[no_hypocrisy]

47. Nope. Looks like Christie wants money and wants it now.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1853551

[elocs]

10. "If Obama stands up..." Wouldn't that be special? I'll start holding my breath now.

More likely there will be a compromise, a deal made. No standing up, no line in the sand. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

[scheming daemons]

12. And if he does, you'll be the first in line bashing him for not

Getting funds to FEMA.

[elocs]

20. Sorry, wrong. But what can I tell you since you know more about me than I do. n/t

[scheming daemons]

21. Maybe not you specifically, but the outrage brigade on du will

[hobbit709]

29. Which outrage brigade?

The constant cheerleading one. The constant complaining one. Or all the ones in between.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

22. You forgot the most important part.

What gets cut in scenario #2.


That's where my judgment will be made; as should everyones.

[kentuck]

28. OMG! We have been captured by the GOP think tanks.

Why should there be any cuts at all. This is an emergency. We should do what we have done in the past. Only the Congress can vote emergency funds. If they don't want to do that until they get the cuts they demand, that is their decision. The President should not accept this type of blackmail. It is foolish and harmful. Stand your ground. Be a man.

[myrna minx]

34. That's my biggest problem with Washington today - Congress and the WH

work exclusively within radical right wing framing. This is why we keep losing, imho, not because the President is a victim to Congress (who we all know are obstructionist and, well, evil) and to the big bad left wing voters who are apparently not important anymore, it's trying to peddle a losing position within the right wing frame. We have the American People behind us, but the Dems will not frame the debate to rally the people. We're having to do it on our own (See the Wisconsin, Ohio and Michigan recalls).

[HereSince1628]

35. FEMA isn't in the constitution, it's a false promise, it's a Ponzi scheme

which cannot be fit under the umbrella of 'the general welfare' and the government should be banned from charitable acts whose outcomes are identical to Christian charity because...they produce outcomes that look like religious charity that should only be conducted by neighbors...

If the Dems can't win the support of the people over that sort of BS, then this nation is not even a decent shadow of its former self.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

37. If they want to take $10B from the MIC to fund FEMA I'm all for it.

Or an $100B or $500B.

Just so you understand, I don't believe for a second that that is where it'll come from.

Also understand that I'm not the one who proposed the funding for cuts scenario. That was Cantor and the OP.

I'll let the "GOP think tank" crap slide.

[HereSince1628]

24. This only works because of the assumption that the House

is immune from anticipated pressure of the people.

But, I don't really see the American people as willing to accept that they aren't a great nation capable of backstopping disaster relief.

I suspect that if the people of the US become convinced that the country doesn't have money for disaster aid, then international concerns will fly out the window and there will be scores of millions of people screaming at the super-committee for cuts in defense spending.

[Le Taz Hot]

25. I'll come here "bitching" about anything I damned well please.

Criminee!! Who the fuck died and made you DU sheriff?

[rug]

36. You assume Obama fighting will yield no results.

You should have more confidence.

[scheming daemons]

44. I know that the Tea Partiers don't give a whit about public opinion

[rug]

46. And therefore they will defeat Obama?

[Marr]

38. So... support him if he stands up to Cantor, but be understanding if he just buckles.

Your message just seems to be "don't ever criticize Obama".

[beac]

39. WE need to stand up to Cantor too! Every member of DU should be calling his offices:

[phone]
[phone]
[phone]

[bowens43]

40. There is no choice here.

number 1 is the only sensible thing to do.

Had he stood up to these idiots ate the beginning instead of folding like a two dollar lawn chair in every challenge, we wouldn't be in this mess.

[kentuck]

41. Obama is holding the winning hand...

He shouldn't fold it.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/08/31/308610/mcdonnell-cantor-disaster-cuts/

[scheming daemons]

45. The people in NJ and VT might have a different opinion as they stand in their flooded neighborhoods

[treestar]

49. Do you really, honestly think

that had he let the nation go into default ("standing up to them") that they'd now provide funds?

That had he let the tax cuts expire, they would not have held the default hostage?

Why do you have such faith in this type of thing? It should follow that you would also agree with Bush that we should have attacked iraq to "teach them a lesson" and thus stop any terrorist attacks.

I mean if you're going to take that tack, at least be consistent.

[Ganja Ninja]

43. I am willing to live with #1. n/t

[treestar]

48. No, no no they will blame Obama no matter what

Just like the debt ceiling, they are taking the same tack.

Obama is supposed to get the FEMA funds from Congress by forcing them to do it! Whether they vote for it or not. He's supposed to force them by strength of personality. Or something.


:sarcasm: