My boyfriend's racist best friend... a dilemma.

[David__77]

Facebook postings sometimes reveal the most terrible things. My boyfriend's best friend has visited often, staying at our house, over the past couple years. He is a gay white guy who is in the US Navy. He posted this racist comment:

"The most American's died during the Civil War to free black men and women, so they could have the same opportunities as white people, yet to this day African Americans feel (from my perspective) that they are still owed something from the white community. This I don't understand. I also don't understand why so many African Americans don't even have the basic 12 years of education like the rest of America. So as far as I'm concerned that was a waste of time."

What was appalling is that a few people "liked" the comment and a couple posted other racist comments in response. I had to say this:

"Black people were "freed" only to be denied voting and civil rights for another century and to be terrorized by KKK and racist cops. Segregated education was inferior for black people and only in the last 45 years or so are things really improving. It seems clear to me why, on average, black people are poorer and have less formal education than white people. It's rooted in a criminal racism. I do wonder if you think that black people are genetically inferior to white people. If so, I think that's wrong. If you don't think they're genetically inferior, why are you even calling our black people specifically?"

I am horrified and enraged by his comment. He is supposed to visit us over Labor Day weekend. I will have a hard time having someone with that belief in my home, let alone sleeping in my home!

Am I overreacting?

[Dennis Donovan]

1. .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8vIE6GkLH8

[yardwork]

2. I'm with you. I wouldn't want somebody like that in my home.

[no_hypocrisy]

3. You'd think that being gay would give this guy some sensitivity toward

bigotry and persecution. Then again, he's been in the Navy where homogeny is the norm (race, religion, sexual orientation) and individualism is deviant.

[Warpy]

6. No, sadly, some oppressed people just look around

for people they can oppress in turn.

[Whisp]

11. nope. look at bully Israel, for one example.

[Mosby]

38. thats a really stupid comparison

[sellitman]

47. Any excuse eh? Even in a thread about racists.

You are no longer here. Good riddance.

[ingac70]

14. It doesn't....

My brother and his boyfriend always talk ugly about blacks and Mexicans.

[undeterred]

4. To me its always a surprise when someone who is themselves

a member of a group which is discriminated against - doesn't see the great disconnect in the fact that they are discriminating against someone else.

[David__77]

8. It seems like gay white men are first and foremost white men.

I'm gay (obviously), and I see racism all around me among white (and Latino) gay men. It's not just the superficial things like identifying anything black-seeming as "ghetto." It's really vicious.

[yardwork]

12. Well, that's a pretty broad brush. Gay people support Obama and Democrats at much higher rates

than straights. About half the country votes Republican, and the rates of Republican voting among whites in the south is astronomical. In comparison, gay voters support Democrats 70%-80% of the time. Furthermore, many gay people are strong supporters of progressive causes.

Yes, we see racism all around us. Gay people can be racists. To suggest that gay people are more likely to be racist than everybody else is false, imo.

[David__77]

18. You're right. I was speaking out of anger and retract that.

I am just amazed by that racist minority among white gay men. Their views would be even worse if they were straight in all likelihood.

[yardwork]

30. Completely in agreement with you there. Thank you for retracting.

[undeterred]

16. Well, being a white man is a higher status than being gay.

As a woman I've found that men will always use their male privilege to prove they are "better" than women.

I was the only woman in a week long technical class taught by a disabled man who had MS. He had some difficulty walking and speaking. Nevertheless he managed to prove his "machismo" in the class by poking fun at me and trying to make me look stupid in front of all the men. It was really kind of sexist and pathetic but I figured his ego must really get kicked around a lot because of the disease.

So a nondisabled female is still lower than a male with MS. Go figure.

[whathehell]

45. I'm with you on that.

I've had gay make friends but I've also been subjected

to my share of sexist behavior from others.

[ZombieHorde]

15. My guess is this happens because people believe their own bigotries are actually

logical observations.

[undeterred]

32. I think you're right.

And all bigotry is illogical... but in different ways. Just because someone recognizes one form of bigotry doesn't mean they recognize another.

The only time in my life someone made a racial remark against me was after a car accident. The black woman driver of the other car got out and called me a "white honky bitch". I remember thinking "Well, I may be a bad driver, but its not because I'm white."

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[marmar]

52. "black Americans' attitudes towards gay"

More broad-brushing. Lovely.

[Happyhippychick]

5. No you are not. I wouldn't want him in my home either and I might tell him "I'd no sooner entertain

a racist than a homophobe"

[gateley]

7. What did your boyfriend say about it? I don't know what I'd do. nt

[chillspike]

9. I would cancel the visit.

Make up an excuse. Easier for you than to deal with a shit storm that would occur if you told him why.

[Cirque du So-What]

10. I'm sorry about your dilemma

It's so sensitive that I will abstain from dispensing advice.

[MrScorpio]

13. Your boyfriend's racist friend is nothing more than a ill-informed moron

Here's your problem: No amount of correcting him is going to change his mind. He'll NEVER admit that he doesn't know what he's talking about. '

If you want to continue to engage this person (I don't recommend it), simply ask him questions. Questions like, where did he get his info, and why does he think that only blacks are problematic? Aren't poor whites dropping out too?

You have to get him to question himself and find real answers to those questions.

[Motown_Johnny]

17. Spend the entire weekend showing him how the decedents of slaves have been

persecuted in this country



Make him so miserable he will never want to visit you again and he will be the one to de-friend you and your boyfriend.

[hfojvt]

19. you have already had someone with that belief in your home

often, as you said at first.

The only thing that has changed, is that you now think you know something about him because of one statement. That one statement has apparently changed him from the good friend of a friend into one of "those" people. Now that he has come out of the closet, you are rejecting him as some kind of subhuman or deviant.

[David__77]

21. And what is the point? And I never said he's "subhuman."

He's wrong, and immoral. Not subhuman, whatever that would mean. That's a term he would be more likely to use. Yes, I reject racism and racists. Is that wrong? If he is educable, than that's another matter. We will see.

[David__77]

20. And it gets WORSE!

He posted: "No I don't believe I'm superior because of my genetics. You maybe able to defend the blacks in America but what about in Africa, it's there national origin, and they are constantly fighting, raping, murding one another." Then he said something so vile I quote it.

I responded: "In the year 1000, Africa had better living standards than Europe. Since that time, as for Africa, European states colonized and enslaved almost the entire continent. Belgium used Congo as its own personal rubber plantation, and would amputa...te arms from forced laborers deemed "lazy." The Belgians murdered literally millions. The French and British committed similar crimes in their colonies. The whole continent of Africa was destroyed and pillaged. Independence only came in the 60s. Racist apartheid has only been gone from S. Africa since 1994. Once again, hardly a "level playing field.""

Somehow, I don't think he and I are playing on an intellectual "level playing field!"

[yardwork]

31. Yeah, this is just pure old-fashioned racism. I don't think that reason or logic will make a dent.

[a simple pattern]

54. Tell him he's part Neanderthal

tell him to stop acting like a damn caveman

[tosh]

22. You are not overreacting.

If you MUST accommodate him for the weekend, you might feel tempted to further his education on African American history. You made a good start with your FB post, but you could also explain that for generations policies were designed specifically to keep an abundance of CHEAP seasonal labor. These went beyond the underfunding of black schools.

I'd be tempted to have a special showing of THE RISE AND FALL OF JIM CROW http://www.pbs.org/wnet/jimcrow /

or, since it is a LONG weekend, EYES ON THE PRIZE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyes_on_the_Prize

It is, after all, LABOR DAY.

[riderinthestorm]

23. Tell your boyfriend now, that his friend has crossed the line.

Honestly, let your boyfriend deal with him. That kind of ugly shit would never be allowed in my house - I don't want to hear it and fearing that it would erupt at any time during the visit would piss me off the entire time. Since this is HIS friend, have your guy tell his friend that he's crossed the line and if he feels that way, he's not welcome to stay.

It's your house. Your rules.

Racist crap isn't allowed at my house. Period. YMMV but I'd draw some boundary lines that are inviolable.

[GoCubsGo]

24. If this guy doesn't understand why...

...many of them "don't even have the basic 12 years of education like the rest of America", you might want to suggest he go spend some time in an inner city school, or in a school in some of these majority-black towns down here in the South. I guess he didn't see that first State of the Union address where President Obama welcomed TySheoma Bethea to the speech and explained why she was invited. A refresher for those who forgot: http://www2.wsav.com/news/2009/feb/25/sc_student_inspir... / And, in this hellhole state, there are a lot more schools like hers.

Somebody needs to explain to this dipshit that it's really hard to get any sort of education when your school building is crumbling in on top of you. Or, when the roof leaks onto your desktop every time it rains. Or, that it's really, really hard to learn anything because you haven't eaten anything in more than a day.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

25. Tell your boyfriend, "No sex for you until your friend changes his mind."

I'll give the friend a week.

[saras]

28. Best response by far - "it's me or him, and you've got a week to choose"

[Vinca]

26. You aren't overreacting at all. I wouldn't have him in my house.

It's strange how all of a sudden you find out things about people who have been around forever. My husband briefly - very briefly - had a business partner who uttered the words "Hitler had the right idea." Life evened out on this guy, though. He was crushed by his own tractor and died.

[Arkansas Granny]

27. Maybe he just needs a little education. Most bigotry is based in ignorance.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

33. The difference between the merely ignorant and racists

is that decent people who just don't know their history will try to deal with it once you hand them some.

Racists will just move the goal posts and keep asking racist questions in ignorant drag.

[Honeycombe8]

34. You are overreacting.

It could be because I've heard some REALLY racist comments in my lifetime. It could be because I'm from the deep south. It could be because I was raised in an area known to have KKK, when I was a child.

But I am not shocked by his comments, and although racist in his viewpoint, I don't regard his comments as mean-spiritedly racist in intent. Seems to me his statements reflect how he sees things, what his experiences with AAs have been. Except for the "waste of time" comment. That's pretty telling.

Most disconcerting is...why was he commenting on that subject at all? Does it play a big part in his life, or what?

My guess is....he has had some not too pleasant experiences involving AAs. Or he has been influenced heavily by a military viewpoint.

I know how you feel. Several members of my family are super racist. It's hard to be around, when they get into the topic. I do what I can, while avoiding conflict w/family members I rarely see. In the end, though, you will no more change their minds, than they will change yours. You either accept people for what they are, or you don't. He's not family, so you don't HAVE to be around him.

One thing, though....if that's your boyfriend's best friend, it's likely they think alike.

[unapatriciated]

35. Maybe he can stay at your place...

[Honeycombe8]

37. I'm used to it. I'm from the deep south with rightwingnuts in the family. No prob.

Racist? Anti-gay? Think women should know their place? Think men are the head of the family? Think kids shouldn't speak until spoken to? And that a hard ruler rules the roost? And that there's nothing wrong with the "N" word? Think that the EPA should be dismantled? And that drilling for oil anywhere, anytime is a-ok, even if it destroys the environment (that's only temporary...BP wouldn't do anything BAD)?

No prob. Meet The Family!

They keep wondering, "What the hell happened to HER? She's (shudder shudder) LIBERAL! And a GREENIE!"

[Honeycombe8]

36. I just read your add'l posts where you post more of his quotes. I changed my mind.

Well, I could excuse SOME of what you initially said he wrote, but when I read your supplemental posts, ... I have changed my mind. He is clearly racist. There can be no other explanation for the additional comments he's made.

But I stand by my prior statement: If he's your boyfriend's best friend, they probably think alike.

[JustAnotherGen]

50. Family might be different

If his boyfriend really loves him - then he'll not subject him to that on his own home. My fiancé had no problems getting rid o few friends who had a little issue or two with me being a "high yella" woman. Loyalty is everything and loyalty to your love interest comes above all else.

[Honeycombe8]

55. True. But...as I said...I suspect the boyfriend is totally okay w/his friend's viewpoint. They are

best friends. No doubt he's heard many comments over the years, and much worse ones than what the friend posted. Myself...I wouldn't stay close friends with someone who is that bigoted and negative about others. Maybe I'd stay casual friends, stay in touch, etc. But I wouldn't remain close.

[Initech]

39. One thing about Facebook is that it really reveals some people's true colors.

[fishwax]

40. Of course, there were also thousands who died during the Civil War to keep black people in slavery

""The most American's died during the Civil War to free black men and women ..."

This seems to be referring to the fact that more Americans died in the Civil War than in any other war--but, of course, not all of them were fighting for the union cause. The number of Americans killed in WWII was higher than the number of union deaths in the Civil War. (I know it's over-simplified to say that all the union soldiers died to free black men and women and all the confederates died to keep them enslaved, but just using the guy's own logic his opening statement is incorrect.)

[Honeycombe8]

57. Many fighting for the union didn't want blacks freed, or didn't care. They were more or less

drafted, or they joined because they were poor & needed the work.

But the same is true of the Confederate army. Many of the guys were dirt poor and were either drafted or needed the pay. Maybe they had thoughts on slavery; maybe they didn't. But many did not choose to go to war to keep black people enslaved.

The high and mighty causes of war are sometimes only in the minds of those at the top. For the rank and file, their minds are on surviving, one day at a time. They don't have the luxury of thinking and philosophising on the unfairness to others in the world.

[Dokkie]

41. Not trying to excuse racism

But a lot of African Americans are homophobic, so he maybe a reacting to the negative encounter he has had with African Americans. Btw am African American myself before anyone start calling me a racist

[marmar]

53. But his specific comments don't indicate his reaction is based on that.....

nt

[XemaSab]

42. I would play devil's advocate ALL OVER that

"So you think black people shouldn't be educated because it's a waste of time? Does that mean NO education, or just high school? What about middle school or elementary school?"

See if you can get him to argue that teaching black people to read and write is a waste of time.

"So where are they supposed to get jobs if they can't read and write? Oh, they should pick fruit? What do you think a fair wage is for fruit picking? Is that wage enough to pay for food and housing while they're working, or should they be put up in dormitories? If they're not going to go to school, what do you think a good age is to start black people out with the fruit picking? Do you think 18 is good, or do you think they'll just cause trouble until then 'cause they're not in school? Do you think 15, 12, or 10 is a better age? Well if the parents are out picking fruit, then you can't leave a 5 year old kid alone all day, so maybe 5 is a good age to start picking fruit. How much do you think little Tyrone or Tamika should make picking fruit at the age of 5?"

"What about during the winter when there isn't any fruit? Do you think they should be housed? Who should house them, the taxpayers or the farmers? Should the farmers also pay for health care, because we don't want sick people picking our fruit? What if a white person wants to pick fruit for three months and get free room and board plus healthcare for the other nine months? Or say a person is 1/4 black but they just want to scam the system? Or if three months of work isn't enough to get all that, then should there be some sort of system to ship them around the country so that they can just follow the crops? How many 5-year olds do you think you can fit in a cattle car?"

"You do know that there are 39 million black people in the US, right? Do you think the 33 million black people who currently have jobs should be fired and sent to go pick fruit? That's a lot of people out there picking fruit. I mean, current estimates are that there are 2-4 million migrant farmworkers in the US right now. That's like 10 black people for every fruit picking job. Boy, that sounds like a pretty chill day... working for 45 minutes picking fruit and then kicking back the rest of the day. Did I mention that I'm 1/4 black? No, not really, but I'd like to quit my job and work for 45 minutes a day for three months out of the year."

Just totally roll with it, and see what kinds of ridiculous shit ends up coming out of his mouth.

[JanMichael]

43. What a complete jackass, not to mention the fact that he clearly failed

American History. Americans died during that war to DEFEND slavery; is he aware of the damage the south took..the number of people who died...just to attempt to keep that nasty institution (among other things...I also can't stand people who believe that the Civil War was fought on one issue)

He's an uneducated twit.

[vercetti2021]

44. I would

Not let him stay there, if my girlfriend had a racist friend i wouldn't let them stay in my home.

[JustAnotherGen]

48. My fiance

Who is from Italy - got rid of two Harley friends not soon after he met me - Black / Natiive / Western European heritage.

Your boyfriend needs to do the booting of this friend.

[aikoaiko]

49. He spoke his mind. Perhaps on facebook or in person you should speak yours.

Also let your boyfriend know and then move on.

I suppose I'm grateful that people don't kick me out of their lives for some of my stupid utterances.

[carolinayellowdog]

51. What does your partner say?

Seems like you can refuse to play co-host, without refusing to let the guy sleep in the house and spend time with your partner. But like you I'd be very leery of having to hang out with the friend after this. Can you just make yourself scarce? Would that put a strain on your relationship with your partner, his best friend? Damn, what a shame this hit right before the holiday. Good luck.

[Zax2me]

56. I think you are overreacting a little.

The term racist can be over used. I find it hard to believe this guy is in the Navy and doesn't have non-white friends that he bunks with, goes to bars with....trains with.
His views are wrong. But they appear to be honest feelings about what he has seen and experienced, wrong as they may be.
Don't throw him in the pot with people that refuse to drink from a water fountain after seeing someone who is black drink from it first.
He doesn't sound like that type of person.
He doesn't sound like someone you should be friends with, either.
So, have faith in your boyfriend. Talk to him about how you feel.