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tiny reminder- Hurricane Katrina was a category 3 hurricane.

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w8liftinglady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 08:21 AM
Original message
tiny reminder- Hurricane Katrina was a category 3 hurricane.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina

I am wishing nothing but positive vibes for my friends on the East Coast
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yes - but there is no place on the East Coast with the vulnerability of New Orleans.
Context is everything. That said, some of the Mid Atlantic coastal areas and NYC could have some serious damage, though it should not be life threatening if people take reasonable precautions.
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kentauros Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Low-lying areas aren't the only parts in which to be concerned.
Houston is over 60-miles inland from the coast, and yet Hurricane Ike did this to the buildings downtown:





If Irene is still a Cat-2 when it makes landfall, NYC could see the same kind of damage to their buildings...


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postulater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Isn't that about the tallest thing in Texas?
Houston is still a low-lying area, isn't it?
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kentauros Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. That depends on where you are in Houston.
If you're on the Ship Channel, then you're at sea-level roughly. In the Heights, then about 65 feet above sea-level (downtown is around 43 feet.) Where I live, the topo maps say I'm around 60 feet as well.

As for the building I showed, it's not the tallest, structurally. That would be the Williams Tower in the Galleria district. Even the relatively "shorter" buildings had at least as much damage to their windows. It's not as much about height as intensity of the winds. The wind speeds are much higher as close to the ground as 100 feet. That's only about seven stories on office buildings.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. New Orleans would have been happy with just some broken windows.
Remember when Dallas got hit by that tornado-even more broken glass.
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kentauros Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. I never saw it due to power outages (no TV or newspaper delivery)
but supposedly after Hurricane Alicia (1983) the broken glass from all the building downtown was a foot thick!
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #8
22. Beats 10 feet of seawater.
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kentauros Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Or ten feet of seawater mixed with sewage.
I have friends down in Seabrook, on Galveston Bay. When Ike came through, they found out later that their house had four feet of water in it mixed with sewage from the local treatment plant that was flooded. I could see the walls to the tanks and they were at least eight feet high, so the surge had to be at least twelve feet, if not way more than that to give them four feet of water, too.
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. Ah yes, in the text of the post I thought I made that same point.
Or at least allowed for it. But the point still is - reasonable precautions should prevent risk to life and limb. Broken windows in high rises are not in the same category as being trapped by rising flood waters or stranded without food and water.
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kentauros Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. My post was mainly for those that do live in high-rises.
I have no idea what that kind of life is like, and I'm guessing that a majority of them aren't very experienced when it comes to riding out a Category-2 hurricane, either. There's still plenty with which to be concerned. How do you live in a high-rise when there's no power (and likely no water) for a week or more?
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Precautions to take in a high rise.......
Tape the windows.
Fill the bath tubs with water (for flushing toilets)
Fill some containers with water for drinking.
Check your battery supply for flashlights.
Check your supply of canned goods, etc. which can be eaten without cooking.
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kentauros Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. One thing you don't need in that list:
"Taping the windows."

This does nothing to stop the windows from being broken. About the only thing it might do is to cut down on the number of glass shards. Better to board them up, from the outside if possible. That will at least minimize the momentum of wind-blown projectiles ;)

The rest of your list sounds fine, and I hope those that are staying heed your advice :)
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. I am thinking shards of glass. You can't board up most high rise windows from the outside. And
most high rise occupants don't have ready access to large pieces of plywood. It is not as if you can store them in the basement - or even run out to the local Home Desperado in your sedan and pick up a load of plywood before the storm. Tape they can manage. Preferably duct tape. No need to get crazy. That is what insurance and landlords are for (replacing the windows after the storm).
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kentauros Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. I knew boarding up wasn't practical for them,
just pointing that even boarding up isn't all that effective, even for those with easy access to their windows and a lumberyard ;)

Here's one idea I've used, though I still haven't had to deal with busted windows: adhesive vinyl sheets. You can get that from art or craft stores. Don't know how expensive it is, but it will cover the whole pane instead of just part of it. The old stuff that was used for masking in graphic arts (often called "ruby-lith" for the dark-red color) would have the same effect and still allow light through :)
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lindysalsagal Donating Member (444 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #14
36. My bronx girlfriend, on the 10th floor, just told me it's gonna miss the bronx
Right. It's 500 miles wide, and it's gonna miss the bronx.

It's gonna hit ALL of new jersey but miss the bronx, entirely.

It's true what they say about new yorkers: The most parochial people outside of paris.

So I told her that when she's had enough of the heat and no way to cook a thing, she should make it over to my house in Connecticut. I'll probably lose power, too, but I have a backyard and a cool open basement and a grill....And grass...and I won't be in 2 feet of water...
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
32. true, that. Expect the water to go further, the winds to blow down more, than
you would expect. Better to not underestimate, though don't need to run around OMBing.
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spinbaby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. Outer banks are very vulnerable.
They're essentially a giant sand bar. I hope they get everyone evacuated safely.
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. Sand that can move. That is how Oregon Inlet was formed connecting Pamlico Sound to the Atlantic.
Hurricane in 1846 (they didn't get names back then).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Inlet
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
25. New York City? Imagine the subways full of water. nt
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. Yes. Tropical Storm Allison got Houston in 2001 -
Edited on Thu Aug-25-11 11:11 AM by TBF
the parking garages and underground tunnel system (restaurants, shops etc underground in downtown - it is an extensive system) were all filled with water.

Here's the wiki link on that one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_Tropical_Storm_...
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
31. Mississippi flooded a long ways in those waterways also. And many people died
So did other parts of LA and Alabama. Seems those areas have been forgotten with thinking of Katrina. There are low lying areas on the east coast similar to the south gulf coast. Like after tsunamis, water that is higher than normal can travel a long distance inland.

People need to take reasonable precautions more so than simple flooding since the storm surge and tides can make a huge difference.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
2. The water off New England is lovely and warm, too...unfortunately. nt
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kentauros Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
3. And Hurricane Ike was "only" a Cat-2 storm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_ike




If you are mandated to evacuate, please heed those warnings!
There was some great advice on one of these other threads, to evac inland someplace where you can wait it out for a week (or possibly more.)

Take care everyone, please!
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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
9. Reminder: most of the damage wasn't from the hurricane
But the levee failures afterward (exacerbated by the tremendous land loss between the city and the coast). After the storm was over, a lot of people thought the city had dodged a bullet because Katrina made landfall farther to the east. A lot of folks were about to head back home when news of the levee breaks came out.
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justiceischeap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Thank you, I was just going to post this.
The hurricane itself didn't do much damage...
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #11
34. If you are only considering New Orleans, true. But there was devastation and loss of life
much more outside the city and yes, Katrina DID do a whole lot of damage.
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
37. Uh, tell that to people from coastal Mississippi.
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Yup. Katrina was a human failure.
The rest of the world watched as we heartlessly watched our own people die in that toxic soup and kill each other.
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kick-ass-bob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #9
29. Most of any hurricane damage/ loss of life are not due to winds.
The biggest is the flooding.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #9
33. Houma, LA and that area had no levees. Neither did a lot of MS cost.
Remember those young men who were hired by Walmart to stay in the store and make sure no one looted?
http://picx.classifieds1000.com/s/Wal_Mart_is_still_gut...

Bodies were found on the roof when the waters receded but afaik the young men guarding this store were never found.

Houma http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12...

http://ww4report.com/node/1068
Houma Nation aerial survey reveals total devastation

Most of the damage in New Orleans wasn't from the hurricane but yes, MOST of the damage in the hurricane area WAS from the hurricane.

New Orleans is important but is not "most of the damage"
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. +10000
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
15. Another reminder....
the hurricane of 1938 was also a Cat 3.

It did extensive damage in New England

http://www.erh.noaa.gov/box/hurricane/hurricane1938.sht...

If we escape with less than that, we'll be lucky...

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ProudToBeBlueInRhody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #15
26. No one prepared for that hurricane
It was largely considered a joke and many didn't even know it was coming. School wasn't cancelled or anything.

For all the handwringing that the Northeast "never gets hurricanes" (I've lived in a low lying area through two of them, one where the eye came over our area), we are all well aware what they can do and have improved the structure of our buildings since then.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #26
35. That's why people need to take this seriously...
even up here in New England...
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
16. New Orleans is a city that is below sea level.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #16
28. We're below here in Houston too -
Edited on Thu Aug-25-11 11:13 AM by TBF
but never underestimate the wind or water. We rent here and we have rental insurance, and separate policies for wind/flood. It is the owner's home, but we'd have to replace all of our own possessions.

No need to panic, but there is plenty to do to prepare so you can ride it out safely.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
20. Please pay attention to AMTRAK cancelations
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
27. Ike hit Galveston as a strong Cat 2 and then swung up our coast a
bit and knocked out power all over Houston. It was the third costliest storm to make landfall in the states. We headed out up to North Texas and came back in a week (and we were early in getting our power back compared to many areas of Houston).

I would take Irene very seriously and PREPARE. Whether you are evacuating or not there is much to do. Trim your trees, put anything away that could become projectile (lawn furniture, trash cans, kids playhouses etc). If you're staying stock up on NON-Perishable foods and gallons of water. Fill your bathtub (you can use it to flush your toilet for days). Crank radios/flashlights. Games/books for your kids. Think about whether your pets are going to be with you or kenneled (we have some kennels here that close and some that stay open - make those calls). If you're evacuating make sure your friends know you're coming (or make hotel reservations). If you're staying now is the time to scout out plywood for the windows (if you're in NC you're already hammering, I know).

More here from my Journal yesterday: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/TBF/54

There are also countless websites that will give you great info.

Make sure you know where your rental/home insurance policies are (those of us on the coast have flood/wind policies as well - find them and keep them with you).

Stay safe.
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