Secession. Would you do it?

[stevedeshazer]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia_(independence_movement)

I'm just gauging support here.

[virgogal]

1. No. eom

[sakabatou]

2. Fuck no.

[villager]

3. It may be more a matter of things falling apart, breaking down into smaller "units"

....which would be smaller regional polities on this same continent.

Not all of them will be Republics, of course.

But once the Empire is bankrupt, and can't enforce its "Federal will," we're not sure what might happen.

This will probably play out mid-century or so.

[aquart]

8. Somalia.

[villager]

18. Well, that would certainly be the "hard landing" version. There was also the USSR

n/t

[KamaAina]

26. See Robert Heinlein's "Friday" for one plausible scenario.

The Midwest (Chicago Imperium) is a fascist police state, the California Confederacy has expanded to include Oregon and Washington and does everything by popular vote, Quebec has separated from British Canada, and Vegas Free State has the only hard currency of the lot, the megabuck. Only the Atlantic Union (the original thirteen, more or less) is still anything like today's USA.

[Pab Sungenis]

4. I'd be more likely to let THEM secede

since THEY'RE the ones who are un-American.

[Thinkingabout]

5. There is a myth in Texas which only Texas can succeed and this was before the Civil War.

After Texas and others was readmitted they agreed it would not
happen again.  But I think it interesting if Perry suffers
from the Union then he would not be natural born and not
qualified ro run.   

[tammywammy]

6. I wouldn't do it.

My job is based off government contracts and I would move with my company.

[Hardrada]

7. There is no state which, once part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire

did not, after achieving independence, suffer the fate which medieval theologians reserved for the damned. So said Winston Churchill. A historical reminder concerning the breakup of empire which should not be ignored.

[jwirr]

13. Interesting - if it would not be too much trouble I would like to know

what fates he was talking about?

As to leaving the union, no but us Minnesotans often joke about joining Canada.

Kunstler suggests that we will break up into smaller unites that have more in common with each other. Also he is talking not about leaving the union but of the union collapsing and regions restructuring into separate governmental units. It would certainly end to fighting between regions that are so different from each other.

[awoke_in_2003]

9. well...

it worked out so well the last time.

[MannyGoldstein]

10. In a heartbeat nt

[a la izquierda]

11. Nope.

But I'm seceding myself if Bachman wins the presidency (yes, I realize this is phenomenally unlikely); I've already got the plans in place.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

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[mmonk]

14. The Texas kind or a progressive kind?

[moondust]

15. delete

[madinmaryland]

16. Bullshit fantasy shit from the 2005 North American Science Fiction Convention

Read it on your link.

Sheesh. Yes, Oregon supposedly has the right to secede and take Washington State, but it is really fantasy to read anything in that link.

Un-recced.

[sudopod]

30. Why so serious? nt

[grahamhgreen]

17. Would smaller countries equal less powerful monopolies?

[marions ghost]

19. haha

I can't imagine anyone seeing this idea as anything but a symbolic gesture. No deed to be hostile about it. We all knoe it's not reality. There is no place to hide.

But I think it's fair to say that we ARE becoming a country where some drop out, mentally and emotionally if not physically. I see many people around me "seceding" in a way that I think is very damaging. We all want to feel connected to something positive, something forward-looking, leaving this planet in a good situation for those who follow us. But in these Dark Times we are doomed to live the falling apart of the American Dream. I don't blame those who would turn away in disgust...if they have the luxury of turning away.

While I can't turn away, I do dream Utopian dreams, some sort of subconscious therapy. If there were a predominantly liberal socialist-democratic Utopia I would go there tomorrow. Give away everything and go there. I CAN imagine it. If you wanted to split America in half down the middle and have the Right on one side and the Left on the other, each governing themselves, I think that would work FAR better for both. (OK make it three countries--the middle can be in the middle.

Instead we are stuck tearing each other down and fighting these wearying fights that leave us sick and exhausted. This is a cold civil war. In that sense, secession is a natural defense. I say we are there mentally already. People get divorced--why can't groups? No contest, non-violent divorce.

But of course it doesn't work that way. Back to reality.

[LanternWaste]

20. No. And I would laugh at anyone so inclined...

No. And I would laugh at anyone so inclined. And most likely follow that up with a condescending "bless your little heart" comment and pat on the head.

Absurdity is best answered with more absurdity.

[marions ghost]

25. "Absurdity is best answered

with more absurdity." u say

If that were true, then we need to think of some really "absurd" things to do or say in light of the absurdity of the current political scene. :shrug:

Maybe absurdity should be met with vision?

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

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[LWolf]

22. In a heartbeat, if all the neocons, neolibs, and fundamentalists declined

to go with me.

[fivepennies]

23. I had a friend

who once said if he could be president for a day his first act would be to dissolve the federal government because it is nothing more than middle management for the corporations. He said his second act would be to resign and then maybe the people could get on with firing lower management at the state level and set up whatever kinds of government they wished to live under.

On the subject of secession, he said it was Washington DC that seceded and that it was originally set up as corporate headquarters, never to be an actual part of the United States.

He was very persuasive in his presentation.

[Javaman]

24. No.

really dumb.

it's colossaly stupid here in Texas, it's colossally stupid in the NW.

[Marrah_G]

27. Yes

I think we cannot survive much longer unless we split into smaller, more manageable countries. I would like to see the North East as it's own country.

[Terry in Austin]

28. In the British empire, it's known as "devolution"

It's a term we'll probably be hearing more and more as the Washington empire struggles to keep it together.

As Washington becomes less inclined and/or able to govern, it leaves a vacuum of governance. It seems natural that, over time, the vacuum will be filled by less remote entitites, including states and cities.

There's no reason to think that the current situation is similar enough to the Civil-War era situation to frame it with the Civil-War era term "secession."

Texas is a side-show, with Perry & company deliberately invoking Civil War animosities as a way to strut and pose. I think if Texas suddenly found itself an independent nation, no one would be more surprised than these loudmouths.

Cascadia, on the other hand, seems to be a more serious and thoughtful proposition. If it does succeed in becoming independent, though, I doubt it will be in spite of Washington's objections.

[marions ghost]

29. Washington's objections

would not be very pleasant.

How long do these devolutions take? Maybe it's something to hope for...

[trayfoot]

31. NO!

[Shagbark Hickory]

32. Yes,

[Blue_In_AK]

33. Alaska should be part of Canada.

I firmly believe that. If that makes me a secessionist, then so be it.