Nat'l Catholic Reporter: "The non-persons in the debt ceiling talks"

[pnwmom]

http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/non-persons-debt-ceiling-talks

The debt-ceiling fiasco may haunt us for a long time both as an historical event and a unconscious strand of a horror movie.

For me, the most appalling aspect was that it showed how far politicians and the huge cadre of hangers-on in Washington are removed from those who suffer most in America.

The rhetoric was amost entirely about numbers, fictitious "job creation" and America's reputation in the world. The arguments were framed in the abstract: charts, graphs, concept versus concept, but bypassed the people who are already deprived or will be.

The closest it came to touching on actual persons was the defense of Social Security and Medicare, mostly by Democrats, impersonally. Republicans attacked "entitlements" as if they were concepts that bore no relationship to human beings.


SNIP

Catholic social theology teaches that political and economic policies be judged primarily by their impact on the poor. When was the last time you heard that argument on the floor of Congress?

Instead, self-interest prevails and the underclass of America floats from view like an untethered barge. From Washington, it seems nobody can make out any of their faces.

[JDPriestly]

1. Look, guys, I'm a Unitarian, but I totally agree with this article.

Catholic social theology teaches that political and economic policies be judged primarily by their impact on the poor. When was the last time you heard that argument on the floor of Congress?

http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/non-persons-debt-ceiling-talks

I hope it will be recommended to the greatest page.

This article represents not just the essence of all Christian morality -- not just Catholic morality, but the values that created our nation.

Excellent article.

[rurallib]

9. Grew up catholic in the '50s and teachings on social justice

were emphasized.
One of the reasons I left catholicism is that the teachings on social justice seemed to take a back seat, if not out and out disappear.
The major concern seemed to focus on abortion. I would also say that a large amount of greed took over, more by the adherents, but also by the church itself.

I have noticed in the past 6 months or so that there seems to be a re-emergence of the doctrine of social justice, at least in some corners of the church.
This is definitely encouraging, but I suspect that there will be a move to quash it.
To me, social justice was the very core of what Christ and oh so many prophets of all stripe taught.

[Liberalynn]

18. +++++100000

I am an ex-Catholic too. I agree with your analysis.

If you read the New Testament it is clear that Jesus wanted his followers to help the poor not step on them on the way to the top of the economic stratosphere.

That's one of the things that frustrates me most and one of the reasons whey I left the Catholic Church and organized religion entirely when I was old enough to make the choice for myself. I was sent to Catholic school in the 1960's and was taught these things and told to believe in them with all my heart. I did even depsite my isssues with their practicing corporal punnishment and some horrendous teachers, and how some of our parrish leaders kissed up to the richest people of the parrish.

I still believe the message of the New Testament, even though I am an agnostic. That's why I am a Democrat today.

Yet so many (note not saying all just many)so called "Christians and Catholics" ignore what was taught, do the exact opposite and then still try to claim the "moral highground." To me if you call yourself a Christian you need to practice what he actually preached. JMHO.

[musette_sf]

16. +1

[Cool Logic]

2. "From Washington, it seems nobody can make out any of their faces."

It sort of makes you wonder why so many people keep looking in that direction, expecting to see something different.

[CoffeeCat]

7. We are not people to them. We are objects.

Their thought processes are shaped by the fact that they've got a really great gig going
on with psychopaths who run corporations. They've made many, many deals with many, many
devils. Our politicians have sold their souls. Their unspeakable sell outs and corruption
have teased them into an underworld where they are rewarded with status, power and riches.
They get to avoid being part of the lower 95 percent that will suffer and struggle in the
coming months and years. Who the hell would want to give up that?

They've got a seat on a lifeboat, and they know the ship is going down.

In order to live with what they've done, they must be able to look back at the sinking ship and
all of the doomed people on board--with little emotion. They can't feel for us, at this point.
Their selfish behavior has orchestrated a long, slow demise for most of us. They must be numb
to it. Otherwise, they would be empathetic and have to do something about it.

But they know they won't.

[Cool Logic]

13. "We are objects..." as well as their subjects and/or commodities.

Most politicians possess an elitist mindset which results in them believing they not only have all of the answers, but that the rest of us would all perish if they were there to lend us a guiding hand.

In fact, I believe that when a freshmen arrives in DC for the first time, they probably have good intentions. However, once they are immersed in the corruption that infects our entire government, they bond with their new friends and lose touch with their constituents. After they do lunch on K-Street a couple of times, there is no turning back.

I don't know if I would go as far as labeling corporate heads as psychopaths, for as there are good and bad men, there are good and bad corporations. However, the only place you will find a good politician is in your home town.

The corrupt politicians in DC, have allowed the rich and the powerful to destroy our free-market economy. Now, by free-market, I do not mean pure, unbridled, laissez-faire capitalism. For that results in the same concentration of wealth that occurs when the rich and the powerful control the economy.

However, when the market is overly-regulated by the powerful, consumers do not get to choose the best products; they get to choose from products that are produced by companies with the best lobbyists. Or, as is the case with ethanol, we don't have choice; we are forced to buy their products.

And then there are the costs associated with their regulations - $1.75 trillion/yr by most estimates. The US is the world's leading producer of red tape and it is choking us to death.

Well, not all of us. For the ones who write the rules get to sell us stuff we don't need and force us to pay them to regulate us.

[gordianot]

3. Catholics share some of the blame in not emphasizing Social Justice over anti abortion.

My best friend from the 70's a liberal Democrat has become a raging right wing tea party kook over right to life teachings in the church. He even endorses Sara Palin and listens to Limbaugh. I tried to use the social justice position of the Roman Catholic Church to no avail. Granted the area he lives was 2 generations ago home to the German American Bundt and is today home of a modern Republican Tea Party equivalent, church teachings has not made a dent. I am convinced they would throw the widow and her mite out of the church on her ass and not feel bad about it. As close as we were years ago I totally avoid him and his lack of compassion.

[cap]

4. Which Catholics are you talking about.

There are lay movrements within the catholic church Trying to change the mess. Very much anti hierarchy. Keep reading NAtional catholic reporter and you will find these people. Read it anyhow and watch the mud balls thrown by liberal Catholics against conservatives. If your friend posted on NCR, he would be fresh meat. Great entertainment value.

[musette_sf]

17. +1

[gordianot]

20. I am not Roman Catholic might as well be.

My Grandfathers best friend fishing buddy was a small town Priest also a good liberal Democrat. I was raised by my Grandfather.

My friend was really into St. Theresa of Avilla. When I knew him best I introduced him to a local Carmelite monestery that a neighbor introduced to me. Not radical there and actually inspiring. As to how this calamity has hit my friend I suspect a Parish Priest. Actually I suspect he is deep down pissed off with life and has given in to the conservative influence mainly at church. Guess I am not such a good friend he can piss off himself.

[eilen]

5. Yeah, I know a guy at work

a big anti abortion/ father's rights guy who claims to be religious but reported a single parent tenant to HUD for breaking her lease (she "escaped" as her boyfriend was abusive and he proceeded to stay, not pay rent and trash the place).

His reason? She didn't call him and tell him first.

Now she can't get HUD assistance for housing.

He is also a far right wing person. I wonder if he is a John Bircher (haven't asked).

I had to explain to him why a balanced budget amendment is not a good idea.

[CBHagman]

6. I've known a number of priests, nuns, and laypeople...

...who are on the progressive side.

That said, I also remember the waggish comment from a seminar on Catholic social justice teachings -- i.e., that they're one of the best-kept secrets of the church. I'm afraid that's true. Over the years I've heard priests address natural family planning and the like from the pulpit, but when it came time to vote on the most recent health care reform legislation in Congress, my own archdiocese focused only on abortion and gay marriage, at least as far as inserts to the church bulletins were concerned. The Catholic Church in general, and the local archbishop in particular, is pro-labor but they really fell down on health care reform.

Let it also be said, though, that Catholic hospital organizations and nuns were advocating for health care reform during 2009 and indeed I talked to one of the latter who was on the Hill one day and confronted a tea party type (who was, by the way, nasty to her. "Nasty to a nun." Speaks volumes about the TP.).

[Jackpine Radical]

8. There is a parish near me where the priest threatened people with excommunication

if they voted for Kerry in 2004. I recall working the Dem booth at the fair when she came uip to us & said she wanted to vote for Kerry but couldn't out of fear for her soul.

[Brigid]

12. That priest was just plain wrong.

Did a little checking, and excommunication is quite rare and reserved only for offenses far more serious than voting choices. We Catholics are not required to be "one-issue" voters. The parishoners should have contacted the diocese about this. The priest himself may have been in violation of canon law by making such a statement. My own parish priest flatly refuses to tell us whom to vote for, despite the efforts of some parishoners to get him to do so.

[CBHagman]

21. Full marks.

Yes, the official stance of the church is that they never advocate for or against any specific candidate. That said, I remember a church bulletin in Scranton, PA, that came very close to partisan endorsements during 2004 (Scranton is supposed to be fairly conservative, but I wish I'd kept the bulletin as a souvenir, or evidence).

As for me, I go to a church where I've seen a guy going to communion in his Firefighters for Kerry t-shirt.

[JDPriestly]

22. Actually, Catholic Charities is an outstanding organization,

perhaps exceeded only by the United Fund and the Red Cross in terms of effective charitable assistance to the needy.

A number of Protestant churches as well as the Unitarian churches and Quakers are also very active when it comes to charity, but the Catholic Charities by virtue of the size and superior organization are outstanding when it comes to social services.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

11. Catholicism is not a one trick pony.

Saying what Catholics (or even the institutional Catholic Church, for that mattter) stand for is as slippery as saying what Democrats stand for, or what liberals stand for.

Yes, you have the church heirarchy, whose biggest sin (no pun intended) is sweeping the abuse scandals under the rug and going above and beyond to make sure the clergy stays a single men's only club, for whatever ridiculous, antiquated and wholly impractical reason.

But on the lower levels you have many local clergy and lay Catholics who espouse the Social Gospel on a daily basis.

Yes, whether its local clergy or top church leadership, one of the issues focused on is going to be opposition to abortion. You can take that or leave that, agree with that, or disagree with that. And I don't think that's going to change, so make of that what you will. But along with that, I've also seen clergy--even church leadership--also take strong positions against unjustified warfare, the death penalty, punitive and discriminatory immigration laws, and lack of access to health care. All issues that most progressives would agree with, regardless of the position on the abortion issue.

Of course, you also have both lay Catholics and even some clergy who have taken an X=Y, Y=Z, X=Z approach. That by their opposition to abortion, and the Republican Party's supposed opposition to abortion, they are willing to throw the entire Social Gospel angle of theology out the window, they are also willing to embrace the lassiez faire, corporatist "screw the poor", Ayn Randian economic philosophy of the Republican Party as well. And while that's quite unfortunate, it's not anything close to a universal trait among all Catholics, clergy or lay.

While some progressives and abortion rights advocates may be more than willing to frame the Catholic Church as an entity that only concerns itself with the abortion issue, the fact is that it is a far more complex entity than that.

And yes, for full disclosure, I am a practicing Catholic, one who also realizes his church can be woefully dysfunctional at times. But I feel the same way about my political party and my country, yet choose to continue to associate with those as well.

[musette_sf]

14. The National Catholic Reporter is staffed by many Vatican II adherents

and their editorial and reporting content is mostly on (a) Traditional, REAL Catholic ethics of supporting workers, the poor, and the disenfranchised, and (b) supporting the growing wellspring worldwide of discontent and dissent with the Wojo/Ratzo Magisterium, and their regressive march to the 1100s. (Nothing would please the Ratzofarians more than to gin up Inquisition v.2.0.).

The NCR is the ONLY mainstream Catholic voice out there that doesn't obseqiously kiss the ring and the red kidskin Prada shoes of the Ratzofarian hierarchy. Believe me when I tell you that until I found the NCR, the Church was dead to me. We of the Catholic Church of social justice are still around. The European Catholic clergy has been quite vocal of late on their extreme displeasure with the current Vatican agenda. They have had it with the contraception ban and the ban on female clergy and married clergy, the denigration of gays and women, and the culture of child abuse and coverups. The NCR has been reporting on ALL of the worldwide dissent within the Church regardling the present repressive hierarchy.

If you aren't familiar with the NCR, suggest you have a read and check it out online. Articles can be commented on, and you will find among the commenters many who are likewise fed up with the current hierarchy. You'll also find a few dedicated Ratzofarians whose small-mindedness and meanness is displayed for all to see.

[mmonk]

10. Siding with the religious right in recent years to get antiabortion laws

passed has had its consequences. The Church can't complain in an honest manner if they keep putting the architects of such policy in power.

[musette_sf]

15. To all observing the recent high hypocricy of the RCC

in joining with regressive Protestant fundamentalists in hatred and denigration of women and gays - the National Catholic Reporter is the voice of the BEST of the Catholc faith, beliefs and ethics. Please check out the NCR and have your faith restored in the RCC's long history of social justice.

Their editorial and reporting content is mostly on (a) Traditional, REAL Catholic ethics of supporting workers, the poor, and the disenfranchised, and (b) supporting the growing wellspring worldwide of discontent and dissent with the Wojo/Ratzo Magisterium, and their regressive march to the 1100s. (Nothing would please the Ratzofarians more than to gin up Inquisition v.2.0.).

The NCR is the ONLY mainstream Catholic voice out there that doesn't obseqiously kiss the ring and the red kidskin Prada shoes of the Ratzofarian hierarchy. Believe me when I tell you that until I found the NCR, the Church was dead to me. We of the Catholic Church of social justice are still around. The European Catholic clergy has been quite vocal of late on their extreme displeasure with the current Vatican agenda. They have had it with the contraception ban and the ban on female clergy and married clergy, the denigration of gays and women, and the culture of child abuse and coverups. The NCR has been reporting on ALL of the worldwide dissent within the Church regardling the present repressive hierarchy.

If you aren't familiar with the NCR, suggest you have a read and check it out online. Articles can be commented on, and you will find among the commenters many who are likewise fed up with the current hierarchy. You'll also find a few dedicated Ratzofarians whose small-mindedness and meanness is displayed for all to see.

http://www.ncronline.org

[Liberalynn]

19. I will have to check this out

Knowing that there are still people who actually care and practice what they preach is helpful in trying to maintain morale. I really am not personally comfortable with being as cynical as I have come to feel over the past few decades.

Thanks for the information. :hug: