Tottenham in flames as protesters riot

[malaise]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/06/police-cars-attacked-tottenham-mark-duggan
<snip>
A bus, a shop and two patrol cars have been set on fire in Tottenham. An estimated crowd of around 300 have gathered and there have been reports of looting and shop windows being smashed.

Earlier in the day members of a community where a young man was shot dead by police had took to the streets to demand "justice".

The 29-year-old, named locally as father-of-four Mark Duggan, died at the scene in Tottenham, north London, on Thursday.

About 120 people marched from the local Broadwater Farm area to Tottenham Police Station, forcing officers to close the High Road and put traffic diversions in place.

[Lifelong Protester]

1. I am sorry, very sorry, for the death of the young man, but people

are going to have to start taking to the streets to DEMAND justice.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. The UK is seeing more and more of this

and sooner or later it will be here... too

[dipsydoodle]

3. He was armed

A man shot dead by police in north London was a passenger in a minicab stopped during a planned operation, the police watchdog has said.
>
Three shots were fired. A bullet was found lodged in a police radio.

A police officer was also injured in the incident, the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) said.
>
Two shots were fired by an officer and it is believed that one shot was discharged from an illegal firearm inside the car.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14423942

Exactly what justice do you refer too ?

[socialist_n_TN]

7. How do you know he was armed?

Ever heard of a "throw down"?

[dipsydoodle]

8. From the initial reports the night it happened

is the answer to your question and no I don't believe it was a "throw down".

Unlike yours our police are not armed : that was a special armed response unit. Those units are only used in certain instances and are called in only on request for specific reasons. They didn't just happen to be there. It was the end of of an ongoing investigation/incident of some type and you may have noticed from some of the pictures that there were no marked police cars present when the taxi was stopped. Doubtless more will become clear in time specifically why he was being followed and how he was known or thought to be armed.

btw - I knew it had happened prior to any news reports. A friend on whose doorstep it happened phoned another friend I was with to say he wouldn't make to where we were dancing - he couldn't get out of his front door.

Just found this too :

Officers had been attempting to carry out an arrest under the Trident operational command unit, which deals with gun crime in the black community, according to the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC).

An IPCC spokesman said that at around 6.15pm on Thursday, officers from Trident, accompanied by officers from the Specialist Firearms Command (CO19), stopped a minicab to carry out an arrest.

"Shots were fired and a 29-year-old man, who was a passenger in the cab, died at the scene," he said.

It is believed that two shots were fired by a firearms officer, equipped with a Heckler & Koch MP5 carbine.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/06/police-cars-attacked-tottenham-mark-duggan

[Lifelong Protester]

4. According to the BBC website, it has not been determined if the

dead man fired first, according to the clip of the article taken from the bbc website



>snip< BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14434318


"A police officer was also injured in the incident, which happened when police stopped a minicab containing Mr Duggan.

It is thought the officer, who was taken to hospital and later discharged, was shot first but this is not known for certain, an IPCC spokesman said.

The Met said a handgun was found at the scene and a bullet was later found embedded in a police radio."

...end of snipped piece.

I'm not advocating shooting police, at all, but this article from what I would see as a credible source is not going to say just yet that the dead man was armed.

[xchrom]

5. +1

[starroute]

6. This is one of the more incoherent articles I've read lately

So here are a few paragraphs from the Wikipedia entry on Tottenham that supply some much-needed context:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tottenham

Tottenham is a multicultural hotspot with many different ethnic groups inhabiting the area. It is often referred to as a black area because it contains one of the largest and most significant populations of African-Caribbean people. These were among the earliest immigrant groups to settle in the area, starting the UK's Windrush era soon after West African communities - notably the many Ghanaians - begun to migrate into the area. Between 1980 and the present day there has been a slow immigration of Colombians, Albanian, Kurdish, Turkish-Cypriot, Turkish, Irish, and Portuguese populations. South Tottenham is reported to be the most ethnically-diverse area in Europe, with up to 300 languages being spoken by its residents.

Tottenham has the highest unemployment rate in London and the 8th highest in the United Kingdom. It therefore has some of the highest poverty rates within the country. There have also been major tensions between the African-Caribbean community and the police since (and before) the 1985 Broadwater Farm riot which stemmed from major issues of racism and police brutality.

Although Tottenham is well known for its diversity and culture, it has also been one of the main hotspots for gangs and gun crime in the United Kingdom during the past three decades. This followed the rise of gangs and drug wars throughout the area, notably those involving the Tottenham Mandem gang and various gangs from Hackney and all of the areas surrounding Tottenham, and the emergence of an organised crime ring known as the Turkish Mafia was said to have controlled more than 90% of the UK's heroin market.

[cali]

9. these aren't protests. they're fucking mindless mob violence

and this gets multiple recs here. rah rah. they're protesting. a little critical thinking here would go a long way.

[malaise]

10. It started as a peacceful protest n/t

[cali]

11. so what? It became lootapalooza and vicious thuggery.

[malaise]

12. Find out why

I am watching BBC International and the report said that they heard that a sixteen year old girl was hit by a police baton during the peaceful demonstrations and that sparked the riot.

The most vicious thuggery on the planet is from financial institutions and politicians against the people of the planet.

[Bosonic]

13. Should the people who used to live here riot against the rioters?

Assumming they are all still alive of course...

[cali]

14. sorry, mobs are mindless, dangerous and completely

undiscriminating re their victims. Learn what a mob is.