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The questions is quickly becoming, who will vote for Obama?

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:05 PM
Original message
The questions is quickly becoming, who will vote for Obama?
This is a president who has broken more promises made to more key constituencies than has been seen in a century or more. Promises such as closing Gitmo, repealing DADT, the public option, not extending tax cuts for the rich and more have all gone by the wayside. Worse yet, groups like teachers have found themselves under attack by this administration, while liberals in general are repeatedly subjected to a president scolding them like he was a petulant child.

So really now, who is left who will vote for this president in 2012? Without the solid support of his base constituencies, all Obama is left with is trying to woo the mushy middle, independents and blue dogs. Does he honestly think that he can win with that coalition, in the face of what is sure to be a 'Pug onslaught? Somehow I doubt it.

I think that it was quite telling earlier this when Obama stated, "I'd rather be a really good one-term president than a mediocre two-term president." That says to me that this is a man who is going to fulfill his own agenda, and to hell with the rest of us. Yeah, we supported the man, voted for the man, but none of that matters because apparently, deep down, he feels that he has no need for us again. He is going to do what he wants, and if we don't reelect him, oh well, he wasn't planning on it anyway, and he got to do what he wanted to do. No need for accountability to the voters when he isn't planning on their help anyway.

I don't know what Obama's agenda is, but what I do see is quite disturbing. Health care reform that isn't, Wall St. reform that isn't, enriching the wealthy and taking away our civil liberties instead of expanding them. These don't seem to be the moves of a man who has the welfare of the people close to his heart. Rather this seems like a man bent on extending even more privileges to the wealthy and powerful, and furthering the collapse of the middle class.

This is a dangerous situation, a president without constraint. Hopefully there are others in government, such as Senate and Congressional Dems, who can restrain Obama and limit the damage being done. Even sadder is that we're going to wind up with a 'Pug in the WH in 2012. After all, at this point in time, who is going to vote for Obama?
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. He's got my vote.
:thumbsup:
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young but wise Donating Member (760 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
48. +1
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Raschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #48
87. Second it.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
97. +1
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. I will. Who will you vote for?
Edited on Mon Dec-13-10 01:10 PM by MineralMan
Have any suggestions? So far, you've said, pretty much, that you won't be voting for President Obama. At least that's how I read your post. So, let's have your suggestions, if you don't mind too much.

Oh, and by the way, that was just one question you asked. Did you have another?
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Hope like hell he'll get primaried. I think it's smart for Dems to rally round him at this point,
but by late spring, if he's continuing this capitulation/complicity - someone will step up. Oh happy day!
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. This isn't about individuals,
This is about groups, constituencies. Do you honestly think that the LGBT community is going to be enthused, like they were in '08, to go out, work for and vote for Obama? What about teachers, anti-war folks, civil libertarians?

This isn't about me, as much as you would like to make it about me. This is about how Obama is steadily and systematically pissing off his base constituencies and discouraging their support and vote in 2012.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. I can't answer your question at this point.
There are still two more years in Obama's first term. And I'm not talking about just you. I did ask who you were going to vote for. You don't have to answer, of course. It really, really isn't about you. Not at all.

You want to know who the "base constituency" is? It's the people who are posting that they WILL vote for President Obama.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. So the LGBT community, teachers, anti-war folks, civil libertarians, and others
Who are disappointed by Obama's actions don't count in your world? They are not the base, just the ones who unquestionably support the president are the "base". No matter that these people have spent years, decades supporting the Democratic party, building it up, they are not the base because they dare to question Obama's actions and express legitimate criticism.

Hate to tell you this, but if you continue to limit the "base" to those sorts of prequalifiers, Obama is going to have nothing left come 2012.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. 80% of Democrats support him this past week.
Don't give me that stuff. The numbers counter it. Those who don't vote for Democrats are not the Democratic base. It is just that simple. The base is people like me, who walk precincts and get out the vote for Democrats who are running. My precinct turned out 60% of the voters. Democrats won by a 60% majority in my precinct. They are the base. Some are teachers, anti-war folks, GLBT community members, civil libertarians, and others. They came to the polls. They voted for the Democrats on the ballot. They ARE the base, and they voted for Democrats.

You question why anyone would vote for the Democratic candidate for President. You are NOT the base. You cannot speak for anyone other than yourself.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. Another one who relies on polls from Gallup,
Despite how just last week, once again Gallup was caught with its bias showing, trying to massage the numbers.

As far as who either you or I can speak for, you are completely missing the point, perhaps deliberately. I am pointing out key constituency groups that have solidly supported Democratic candidates throughout the years and decades. You are trying to define the base as those who only blindly support Obama. That is ignoring the bigger picture in favor of a message you can control. Life and politics simply don't work that way.

But hey, keep flailing away there, it makes for entertaining spectacle.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #30
62. I am an elected PC I canvass , vote and fundraise as do most of the Dems
I know. At our state and at party gatherings the support for Potus is eroding and it is eroding nationwide.Most will support the Democratic Nominee but most are very disheartened by the president. Some have even quit the Party. This is been a staple of conversation at events across the country. A primary opponent is not impossible at this point. The polls are what they are because we all say we support the POTUS when asked. That has nothing to do with what will be done in either the Primary or the turnout for the GE. Which is why I say , we should be building support for the down ticket NOW and vote down up.Let the presidency take care of itself.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #30
83. Nor can you,
And again, you are simply defining the base as those who support Obama. But that is simply not correct. The base of the Democratic party are indeed those groups who have historically supported the party, not the president, not an individual. To think otherwise is to simply travel an Orwellian path.

But we'll see, in less than two years. My bet, Obama is a one termer, and it will be due to the fact that these base constituencies have become so disgusted that they either went third party or stayed home.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. i will
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:11 PM
Original message
Ask me again in 18-22 months
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
5. Ask me again in 18-22 months
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
7. Apparently not you.
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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
9. Tens of millions of people will
He will retain solid African-American support, for one, which can make the difference in quite a few places. There will be defectors, but they will mostly come from the moderate 'independents.' The left will not be as enthusiastic, but most will pick him over the Republican alternative.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Umm, weren't you paying attention this last election?
The left stayed home in droves, and will probably do so again in 2012.
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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. I doubt it
Turnout is always down in midterms. Many people don't follow politics that closely -- they care about the President, but often can't name their Rep or Senators (let alone their rep/senator in the statehouse). I'm not sure a lot of the people who stayed home qualify as 'the left.' Many were your run of the mill 'apathetes,' if you will, who can only be bothered turn out once every four years, if that.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. then the "left" is just plain stupid.
You can speak for yourself- you cannot speak for anyone else.

:thumbsdown:
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Yes, they did stay away from the polls, didn't they.
And now we have a Republican House and a weak Senate. Thanks a lot to all those who stayed away. Here's a hint: They're not the Democratic base at all. They're sometimes Democrats. They disappointed me badly in this 2019 midterm election. Why should I pay any attention to them now? Republican House. Weak majority in the Senate. That's not the base talking at all.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. You should pay attention to these people
Because despite your whining, these are the people who go out and do the grunt work of any campaign, hit the streets, do the grassroots funding, man the phone banks etc. They are also one of the main support beams of this Big Tent, and if they fail, the whole party fails. You may not like that, you may wish it were otherwise, but that is the truth of the matter.

So you have two options, either continue to be in a state of denial, or wake up and realize what is happening.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. Yes, and so do I. I walked my entire precinct in 2010, as chair
of the DFL precinct organization. I talked to hundreds of people, and we turned out 60% of the voters, who voted in a 60% majority for the Democrats on the ballot. I'm out there, doing just what you're describing, and I know a helluva lot of people who are doing the same. That's the base, my DU friend. Those who do not turn out are not the base. It is so simple.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. Again, you don't get to define the base as only those who support the President unconditinally
It simply doesn't work that way.


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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #40
74. Nor do you get to define the base as only those who
complain about the President and threaten to withhold their support. For pete's sake.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. I'm not defining it in that fashion,
I am defining it by the long traditional groups who have supported Democrats. Show me where teachers, the LGBT community, civil libertarians, anti-war folks haven't supported Democrats in such a manner historically. Then tell me that they aren't key constituencies.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #35
64. By that theory, it wasn't the "Base" who elected the President then. LOL!
And if so many of the "base" as defined by you voted, why didn't we win?
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zalinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
90. Ah, no they didn't
Did you vote? Didnt think so. We know why.
by Alexander Wilson
Dec 08, 2010

Youre young, youre a minority, you didnt vote in 2010. This isnt surprising. In fact nearly every expert predicted that youd stay home this past election cycle. The numbers support it too.

Seventy-eight percent of voters were white. Eleven percent were under 30. And a full 23 percent of the voters this past election were 65 and older.

The surprising thing is these results came after the proof -- with the historic turnout in 2008 -- that when typically apathetic sections of the population do vote, they change the results dramatically.

http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/news.aspx?i...


It was Obama's bandwagon voters who stayed home.

zalinda
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zalinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #21
91. Dup error message n/t
Edited on Mon Dec-13-10 04:21 PM by zalinda
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zalinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #21
93. Dup error message n/t
Edited on Mon Dec-13-10 04:22 PM by zalinda
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sasha031 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'll vote for a Progressive
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
11. You got me
Obama seems to be becoming increasingly irrelevant as he makes weak compromised deals with republicans and it diminishes him further when he acts like he has no guts whatsoever.

Maybe he will get some fire and boldness in him some time before he is totally seen as a light weight by most of the country, but I wouldn't bet on it.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
12. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
14. I will and so will many others.
What's sad to me, is posts like this which only seek to destroy us.

:thumbsdown:
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Wow, you see an honest question as "destroying us"?
That's very Orwellian, at best, when you damn honest questions, especially questions that have such a large bearing on our future.
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
15. We had a Blue Dog rep here
he was proud of voting with the GOP, made him look independent he said. Come election time he called and called and called all of us who had walked and phoned for him and got little response. I (and others) voted for the guy in November because the alternative was so bad. He lost by about 8%, don't remember exactly how much but it wasn't close. So will Obama be likely to get my vote? Not sure, it depends on what happens between now and then, if anyone else runs etc. but this is how he will lose: apathy. The base, the real base, the ones who actually get out there and register voters and knock on doors not those who sit at keyboards and tell us how much of 'purist' we are, will not put out the efforts. We can end up with a repuke but Obama is the one to blame for that not us. He made his bed and we'll all have to live in it.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #15
39. Thank you, somebody who gets it. n/t
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
20. Obama Job Approval Among Democrats 80%. Dec 6-12, 2010
Obama Approval Rating:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Approval...
Dec 6-12, 2010

Democrat total 80%

Conservative Democrat 67%
Moderate Democrat 77%
Liberal Democrat 79%

======
We need to recognize that DU is an echo chamber/
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T Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. Fine. If Obama does not want or need the liberals (or some portion of those crazy leftists,
then no one should waste any time worrying about what he does or whom he pleases or pisses off.

It's not like we have any input or influence over the party or those who run it.

So, this debate is just loyal toadies arguing with spoiled purists about a non-issue.

PS - about that poll. How can the overall total (80%) be higher than any of the marginals?
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #31
66. Because the marginals are not exhaustive (nt)
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #20
33. You need to realize that polls aren't the end all and be all of public opinion,
Or didn't you learn that lesson last week when Gallup was caught with its bias exposed over the tax cut extensions.
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highprincipleswork Donating Member (163 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #20
80. "You can never underestimate...
"You can never underestimate the stupidity of the of the general public."

Not that I necessarily believe these figures. But, if they are true, I believe it mostly shows that most people are simply not paying attention.
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highprincipleswork Donating Member (163 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #20
81. "You can never underestimate...
"You can never underestimate the stupidity of the of the general public."

Not that I necessarily believe these figures. But, if they are true, I believe it mostly shows that most people are simply not paying attention.
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highprincipleswork Donating Member (163 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #20
84. False promises
"You can never underestimate the stupidity of the of the general public."

Not that I believe these numbers, but if true, seems to me to show mostly that most people are not paying attention.

No, I don't believe he will even carry the African-American community the way he did in 2008, as questions on the 2010 campaign trail indicate.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
96. Gallup?
LOL!
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danbee46 Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
22. That is the problem..
The so-called pundits, as well as some blue dogs, have said that Obama is purposely angering the lefties (and I am one) to gain the support of moderate and conservative Dem voters. He apparently believes that we have no place else to go and, therefore, will support his candidacy in 2012. At this point, barring some unforeseen change of direction by Obama, I will not vote for him. Whether I support a Dem challenger or just leave my presidential ballot blank will be determined later on. To those who may say that this will only get a Repug elected I say that I understand...but I cannot dismiss what I see as an abandonment of traditional Democratic beliefs and principles.
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:28 PM
Original message
well said
I don't think anyone could find fault with your position either.
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Lucky 13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #22
76. +1
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Andy823 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
24. Hell yes I will!
It's pure BS to say he has broken more promised than anyone in a century! Hell it hasn't even been two years yet, so why all the doom and gloom, and BS about how bad he is? He has gotten more done than any other president in ages during the short time he has been in office. Sure he hasn't filled every wish that "everyone" who voted for him wanted, but he still has time. Anyone who "claims" to be a liberal, democrat or progressive and doesn't vote for him makes me wonder just what the hell they want! Do you intend to vote for a republican? Or how about some one like Gravel if he decides to run, someone who doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of winning!

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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
25. I will.
Right here.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
26. I'm voting for Satan. At least I know what I am getting.
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #26
46. This provided a much needed laugh, thanks.
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brooklynite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
27. Most Democrats?
The fact that a segment of a web community that is by definition more ideological and more activist than most Democrats won't support the President does not imply how most Party members will respond.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
29. the melodrama.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
32. I'll be voting for President Obama.
I'm a liberal and I'm the base.
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yourout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
34. At the rate he is going he will be considered a bad one-termer.
At least to us.
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whistler162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #34
88. Similar to Harry Truman!
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
36. He's got my vote. n/t
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tcaudilllg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
37. How he treats Manning and Assange
will make it or break it for me.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #37
43. "?"
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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #37
50. Heaven forbid . . .
Bradley Manning answer for breaking the law, just like you and I would. The law is there and Manning broke it. Unless the laws are changed (and if people want to advocate for that, go for it), how can you justify not holding him accountable?
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Proud Liberal Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
41. He's got my vote
:thumbsup:

Progress is still progress regardless how incremental or slow. Sorry that things aren't happening fast enough for some people but that's how government often works and it's not like he hasn't had his own headaches to deal with. Congress, including some Democrats, have fought President Obama on some of his agenda items (most notably, Gitmo) and he's gotten practically no Republican cooperation on anything as they've managed to significantly clog up Senate business since he became POTUS. It's frankly amazing that he's gotten done what he has given the kind of resistance he's gotten. Anyway, how are we going to be able to judge President Obama on only 2 years in office when last I looked Presidents are elected to 4 year terms? A lot of people around here inexplicably seem to be declaring his Presidency a failure already while completely negating all of his accomplishments, as well as ignoring some of his challenges. Could he have done a few things differently or better? Sure. Do I feel like he has done something so horrific (so far) that he has lost my vote? No.

I think it's not only important that we re-elect President Obama in 2012 but that we get ourselves a better Congress as well that will work with him better.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. But that's the problem, for many of these key constituencies, there hasn't been progress
At best, they have treaded water, and for many they are regressing.

Let's take a look at teachers. Teachers have always been pretty monolithicly behind the Democratic party. Part of the reason why the right has always demonized teachers and public education. Anyway, most teachers saw Obama as a chance to get back onto a saner course in public education, reform or do away with NCLB, extend more funding, etc. Instead what we got was a president who extended the testing madness of NCLB even further, and still without funding it, applauded when teachers were fired en masse, used education funds as a cudgel to get states to adapt his insane education "reform" and generally furthered the trend towards privatized education in this country.

Now what teacher, in their right mind, is going to support a president who is attacking their profession in such a manner. There might be a crazy or besotted few, but most probably won't.

The same can be said for the LBGT community, who are seeing this president delay and deny the repeal of DADT, civil libertarians who have seen Obama extend the presidents powers concerning "enemy combatant" and other such Bush era oversteps, anti-war folks who have seen us double down twice in Afghanistan, with no end in sight, and on, and on. For these people, the Obama administration isn't about even incremental progress, but rather out right regression.

So why should they vote for the man when things have regressed under his watch? Simply saying that Republicans are worse isn't the answer. That way lies apathy, which will kill Obama's reelection bid dead as a doornail.
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somone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
42. Republicans and independents will fill stadiums for him in 2012
What a silly question :sarcasm:
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
44. didn't vote for him in 2008 and won't be voting for him in 2012....
eom
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Bonhomme Richard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
45. I'm practical. I would vote for him if left no other choice even though he.
has been so disappointing to me but I'm not the one they have to worry about.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. So, let's say this happens
Obama continues tax cuts for the rich, implements a draconian austerity program that includes cuts to SS and Medicare, and gets rid of part or all programs that benefit the middle class, such as the mortgage interest deduction. Will you still vote for Obama if push came to shove in 2012? Because these are the actions by Obama that we're looking at right now, and heaven knows what is yet to come.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
49. I will, if he's the Dem in the General.
I don't care what anyone says, the alternative would be unfathomable.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #49
67. +1. I'm beyond unhappy with the President, but living in Red State Hell changes a person, IMHO.
Between AZ and FL, I think we know all too well what hell could be wrought with a power mad ReBP.
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
52. People who value party above principles.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. If that's the case, Obama will lose.
Far too many don't give a damn about a party, just what has the candidate done for me lately.
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. He has alienated far too many who voted for him in '08.
Edited on Mon Dec-13-10 02:01 PM by Individualist
I value principles above party.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
53. I'll vote for the most progressive, anti-war, candidate on the ballot.
Edited on Mon Dec-13-10 02:00 PM by Tierra_y_Libertad
Even if I have to write one in.

Hell, even Obama has a chance if he miraculously becomes anti-war and a progressive.
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
56. I will look at the two candidates that have a chance of winning...
and vote for the one who will come closest to serving my personal interests, my families interests, States interests, and this nations interest. I see absolutely no chance that a Republican will ever be the best of two candidates.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
57. Delete. Processing error
Edited on Mon Dec-13-10 02:13 PM by Recursion
Grrr
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. OK, how many?
More than in 2006 on our side. But the old white conservative people were even more enraged because whether you admit it or not, we've been succeeding at moving a progressive agenda forward. And that made them mad.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
58. I will
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
59. I have no problem voting for him
If not him, are you going to vote for Sarah?
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
60. Nearly all Democrats, a plurality-to-majority of independents, and a sliver of Republicans
Pretty much like last time; how much it's a "plurality" vs. "majority" of independents will determine who wins.
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Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
63. I'll vote my principles, which I always have done
I voted for Obama based on his campaign. If nothing changes in the next two years, and I expect that we're seeing the real man, so it probably won't, then I'll vote for some I have more confidence in. If there isn't a good candidate running, I'll vote for the least worst, in which case Obama could still get my vote.

Contrary to what some assert, a democratic vote is not necessarily a Democratic Party vote. With his continuation of Bush policies, Obama has dragged the party away from the principle.

Time will tell, and group bevavior in response to events just prior to the 2012 election will most likely decide. I predict fear-mongering will escalate pre-election. (Pretty safe bet, huh?)
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semillama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
68. As long as we are talking campaign promises
perhaps everyone should bookmark the following for quick reference:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises /

According to Politifact, Obama's kept 123 campaign promises, compromised on 39, broken 24, is stalled on 85, and has 232 in the works, with 3 still up for evaluation.

I was surprised at the sheer number, actually, but percentage-wise, he's actually not doing too bad. Of course, some of those broken promises are big ones, such as cap and trade and public option, but he's done quite a bit for us, too.
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semillama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
69. If we're talking Obama's agenda, then Politifact is your friend
perhaps everyone should bookmark the following for quick reference:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises /

According to Politifact, Obama's kept 123 campaign promises, compromised on 39, broken 24, is stalled on 85, and has 232 in the works, with 3 still up for evaluation.

I was surprised at the sheer number, actually, but percentage-wise, he's actually not doing too bad. Of course, some of those broken promises are big ones, such as cap and trade and public option, but he's done quite a bit for us, too.
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Lucky 13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
70. ASK ME AFTER THE PRIMARY... and I really do think there will be a primary.
In the primary, my vote would depend on who he's up against:

If it's a person who is more progressive than Obama (which at this point, it's getting hard NOT to be more progressive than Obama) then I'll vote for that person and campaign for them tirelessly.

If it's a person of the SAME centrist leaning as Obama... I'm voting for that person and not Obama, because likely that person hasn't called me a drug addicted, purist, sanctimonious, fucking retard.

If that person HAS called me a drug addicted, purist, sanctimonious, fucking retard AND has centrist leanings like Obama... then fuck it. I'll toss a coin.

If that person is FURTHER right than Obama, I will double check that those are my two choices from the DEMOCRATIC party, and then vote for Obama.


I can't answer any questions about what will happen beyond the primary.
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Batgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
71. I remain strongly convinced the greater threat posed to the soul of this country
is seen in the thick veins of insanity flourishing and mutating within the current GOP.

And so I will vote for the Democratic candidate.

While acknowledging there's plenty of valid criticism of Obama (which can be seen not just here but throughout the left blogosphere), I'll still use my vote as one tiny sandbag against the wingnut floodwaters.

I can only speak for myself, and what feels right for me.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
72. Depends on who he's running against.
Edited on Mon Dec-13-10 03:06 PM by MilesColtrane
If there's a Republican in the race, I'll vote for Obama every time.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
73. He will get NYS's electoral votes - no doubt
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
77. I will. And I bet the vast majority of DUers will too.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #77
79. And that will net what, a couple of hundred thousand votes at most
Meanwhile you've got millions of teachers, millions of civil libertarians, millions in the LGBT community, millions against the war. Sure, not all members of these groups will vote against Obama, but I'm betting that either a large minority, or even a majority in these groups who will vote against Obama, far outstripping the votes from DU :shrug:

And let's not forget, these groups are far better at GOTV efforts than DU ever dreamed of. If they go against Obama, you can figure another few millions who won't vote him, since that GOTV effort will be gone.
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philly_bob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
78. DU Pendulum swing. Obama gets no votes in 2012. Overwrought rhetoric. (nt)
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #78
86. K&R..... until Palin captures the facebook endorsement....
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
82. i`ll hold my nose....
i have no doubt he`ll be elected again. the big money is on him. they like what he`s selling and they won`t take a chance with some nut ball on the right. the worse thing that could happen to them is a sarah palin anywhere near washington dc.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
85. I can't vote for Obama again even though it isn't about him
as much as it is about the kind of candidate that this particular crew of Democratic Party leaders promote to candidacy. I don' see him as being out of step with them.

Their behavior has been appalling. At every point, they've ignored their base and promoted their biggest funders. That's fine. As long as we understand each other.

On the other hand, I've been a Democrat longer than most of them. I can work locally with our candidates with a clear conscience.

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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
89. I will.
Next question.
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
92. Do you realize.
That the Gitmo closing was blocked by republicans. The closing requires legislative approval and funding, Obama can't get the funding or approval. But do you also realize that Obama is slowly CLOSING Gitmo by not sending more detainees there and by freeing detainees that were held on questionable charges. Some of the people at Gitmo are dangerous, for the sake of the world in general, they are better locked up for life, trial or no trial.

Do you realize that the Pentagon is knee-capping DADT by instructions to officers that delays or outright stops proceedings against gay soldiers. Do you realize that the number of charges that a gay soldier can be brought up on a=have been slashed. All of those actions are ones that Obama could take administratively, and he did. Repeal of DADT is a legislative matter, all that Obama can do in that sphere is give lip service to the need for repeal, as he has done on every occasion available to him.

Lastly. I am disappointed with Obama on some issues, but I have every intention of voting for him in primary and general. There is no one better out there.

Ok. Now you can go back to worshiping Julian Assange.
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
94. I will vote fgor Obama.
Do you realize, that Gitmo closing was blocked by republicans. The closing requires legislative approval and funding, Obama can't get the funding or approval. But do you also realize that Obama is slowly CLOSING Gitmo by not sending more detainees there and by freeing detainees that were held on questionable charges. Some of the people at Gitmo are dangerous, for the sake of the world in general, they are better locked up for life, trial or no trial.

Do you realize that the Pentagon is knee-capping DADT by instructions to officers that delays or outright stops proceedings against gay soldiers. Do you realize that the number of charges that a gay soldier can be brought up on a=have been slashed. All of those actions are ones that Obama could take administratively, and he did. Repeal of DADT is a legislative matter, all that Obama can do in that sphere is give lip service to the need for repeal, as he has done on every occasion available to him.

Lastly. I am disappointed with Obama on some issues, but I have every intention of voting for him in primary and general. There is no one better out there.

Ok. Now you can go back to worshipping Julian Assange.
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messiah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
95. Democrats will always vote for the Democrats
If Bush Jr was on the ballet against his Republican duplicate self democrats would vote for Bush jr.
So called liberals will go to the polls again in 2012 and vote for a conservative while claiming to be liberal or even a socialist :rofl:.

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GOTV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
98. For all my criticism I'm planning on voting for him but ...
... there's a lot that can happen in two years.
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
99. Democrats will vote for Obama.
Non-Democrats can go piss up a rope, and I don't care who they vote for, some moonbeam pie-in-the-sky idiot is all they seem to run, anyway.


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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #99
100. Really? All of them?
Not from what I'm seeing and hearing, both here and in the real world. A lot of Democrats are thoroughly disgusted at what Obama has done, how he has squandered his opportunities to bring about some real change.

What are you going to say to those staunch Democrats who are left wondering where their leadership went? Going to tell them to "piss up a rope"? That's certain to win friends and influence people :eyes:
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #100
101. Yep, tough love for those that are the opposition.
From either side.

You aren't going to vote for the man, or support Democrats.


Democrats support this president, as evidenced by polling, by a VAST majority.


The squeaky fringe is just that, squeaky, and fringe.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
102. Got my vote.
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
103. I think Obama is in a very strong position for 2012.
He'll get the usual 85% of dems, plus a lot more independents (the largest part of the electorate) than many Democratic Congress people got in the recent mid-terms.

I think his chances for re-election are excellent.
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
104. me. n/t.
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stuntcat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
105. I will.
Long as I have to live in the US I won't vote against the democrats. I blame their Fails as much on the whole public as I do the people we elect.

This is just what the baby-boomers are giving to us, Growth/Success/Dreamlife on a silver frickin platter :eyes:
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ChoppinBroccoli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
106. And The Answer Is:
About 85% of Americans will, once they see the kind of train wreck the Republicans will offer them. Not a single one of the Republican front-runners has a snowball's chance of getting 100 electoral votes right now.
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