I think I'm finally understanding the right wing brain. This, from personal experience.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

I discovered this from having e-mailed with a right winger for a long while, and from being with a boyfriend who is a Libertarian (which to me, just means the person is a right winger but trying to seem cool). My relationship with the Libertarian is slowly dying, and leaving an ugly trail.

But I digress.

About right wingers:

I think right wingers are astounded by, and almost WORSHIP, authoritarian types of individuals. The meaner the better. They see them as heroes.

Symbols of patriotism (JUST THE SYMBOLS, MIND YOU, INCLUDING WAR, NOT AUTHENTIC LOVE OF COUNTRY AND LOVE OF FELLOW MAN), thrill them.

Right wingers get into all that militaristic, tough, punitive attitude. They have a certain abhorrance of weakness (except maybe in their woman).

Very important is the fact that right wingers DESPERATELY NEED to have an enemy. They are repelled by the idea that 'everyone' should be one and get along. They do NOT feel comfortable with the lack of an enemy, and they need to have something to compare themselves to, someone lesser, someone they ascribe negative qualities to, so THEY themselves can feel superior and better, more Godly, etc. etc.

These are people that CANNOT and DO NOT feel good about themselves unless someone somewhere is suffering and being punished.

Has anyone else found this to be true in his/her dealings with right wingnuts?

[texanwitch]

1. Yes, you are right.

They need to feel like they are better then everyone else.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

10. Yup. Sick puppies, aren't they? nt

[CubicleGuy]

211. An interesting view of life...

I was reading a review of "Breaking Bad" (my favorite TV show these days) yesterday, and the writer had an interesting thing to say. The show is about how one regular guy eventually becomes Scarface, basically. The show is about karma, and how every bad decision the characters on the show make come back to bite them in the butt, big time.

Anyway, the reviewer, in talking about karma, had to admit that while he or she might have difficulty believing in heaven, it was absolutely essential that hell exists, so that those who have it coming to them will get it.

That's my take on the Republican view of the purpose of life. They're not so much interested in a happy ending for themselves, but only in making sure that others suffer more than they do.

[SharonAnn]

251. Read John Dean's "Conservatives Without Conscience" and Altmeyer's "The Authoritarians"

There's been a lot of work done in this area and the Authoritarian personality types have some definite patterns and characteristics. They are found in many organizations, especially hierarchical ones, but they can be anywhere.

[FarLeftFist]

2. Very true. Take Chris Christie for example...

The GOP loves a bully who doesn't give a shit about it's own constituents. The mental state of the RWer is one of misery, and misery LOVES company. They will stop at nothing until everyone shares their misery. It is a mental disorder.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

9. I agree that right wing thinking is a form of mental disorder - and I'm not being funny at all

I think these people are one step from being psychopaths. It's just that there are degrees of them, and they do hide behind institutions to shield their mostly-absent conscience. For example, CHURCHES. Churches are a great disguise for psychopaths.

[FarLeftFist]

18. Conservatism always always always boils down to HATRED.

Repost from my comment below:

Without hatred conservatism could not exist. Why else would they NOT want our citizens to have a better life, better healthcare, better education, higher wages, workers rights, etc. HATRED. There is NO SUCH THING as a compassionate conservative. They are a bizarre cult that only cares about 3 things, God, Guns, and Militarism. They are paranoid and delusional.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

24. No doubt about it. These people have a hatred burning in their bellies.

If there were no governments, they'd be out murdering outright.

[xxqqqzme]

217. Yep, money and power

are the only reasons 'w' wasn't a resident of death row in Texas. If he had been born into a middle or lower middle class family, he would have been toast.

[The Doctor.]

37. And that hatred comes out of fear.

Ultimately, they are afraid. That is why they tend not to associate with people that are very different from them. You've no doubt noticed that Tea Party people have a great deal in common, while Liberals that get together on political issues will tend to be from different ethnicity, backgrounds, religions, and philosophies.

They are afraid of anything 'different' than they are because they cannot reconcile and understand those differences. lack of understanding produces a 'fear of the unknown', and puts them in a persistent 'fight or flight' state. So they sublimate their fear into anger and hatred... and even violence.

[dgibby]

73. They are ruled by their reptilian brains. n/t

[certainot]

161. i like the sex on the wrong brain theory- fear is and extreme reaction to uncertainty that

is exacerbated by the need for certainty, which is increased by mixing sex and logic- logic is satisfied with conclusion and finality which comes with certainty.

since nothing is certain, the all-present universal, uncertainty of nature produces fear, and a subsequent need to create certainty- by destroying nature, conformity, sameness, order, wearing uniforms, organized religion, free market capitalism, etc...

here's a great explanation, by an alien, of how sex that was meant to go to the right side of the brain gets into the left, logical side of the brain

http://youtu.be/HnrfuTUlqVs

[donquijoterocket]

173. fear

As much fear of the unknown is the fear that doing something about anything is going to cost them something either monetarily or in terms of their personal comfort and convenience.

[October]

189. Absolutely. They are all ANGRY even when they're "winning." /nt

[RKP5637]

32. It would be interesting to see a study/correlation on this. I agree, churches

are a great cover for psychopaths. Churches have all of the right ingredients including even hearing voices and waiting for god to speak to them to tell them what to do. It's a mental illness that does not get a lot of press unless really severe, because in American society when someone invokes the god word most people back off. These types get far too free a pass in America IMO.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

49. Oh, no doubt about it. Look at how many perverts hide behind prayer and churchgoing

And how many sickos want to hurt the least among us but are there banging their chest before their God pretending to be good people, when in reality they're SCUM.

[kctim]

154. Very interesting

Who are two of the most religious voting blocs in our country?
Who do they vote for?

[SharonAnn]

250. Read John Dean's "Conservatives Without Conscience" and Altmeyer's "The Authoritarians"

The authoritarian personality shows up in many places and it explains a lot of things. There's been a lot of work done in researching this.

[RKP5637]

252. Thanks! n/t

[GreenTea]

212. Republican brain just can't comprehend compassion-REMEMBER ALL "RIGHT-WINGERS" ARE & VOTE REPUBLICAN

[I hate liars]

224. I couldn't agree more...

And I think the source of right wing psychopathy, in many cases, is a childhood defense mechanism to avoid punishment, which is why it is so unconscious, ingrained, and nearly impossible to change.

Kids - especially those who are abused - learn early in life how power games are played. If one's childhood experience is that avoiding punishment or redirecting negative attention requires a pattern of lying, projection, transference, and other destructive behaviors, by the time they achieve independence, the pattern is indelible.

That's no excuse for immoral behavior, but I think it does explain a lot of what we see in authoritarian followers. The authoritarian leaders, on the other hand, are sociopaths.

[Solomon]

3. Absolutely

You see a lot of the phenomenom here. Compromise is a dirty word. A weakness. Lots of people would rather cut the baby in half. It ain't just right wingers. They don't care if they're wrong. What matters is the "Fight." They admire people who fight no matter how stupid the fight is.

[sabrina 1]

266. Compromise is not a dirty word to Democrats. Capitulation that

harms the least among us, iow, capitulating to those bullies described in the OP, THAT is a dirty word and a betrayal of decent people.

The difference:

Compromise = both sides get something that is important to them.

Capitulation = one side gets most or all of what they want by bullying and threatening the other side.

Solution: NEVER negotiate with bullies. When they demand your lunch money and you give it to them, they will be waiting for you the next day demanding more. Bullies are cowards. I have never met one who was not. And they prey only on the weak. They avoid those they KNOW will challenge them.

[RKP5637]

4. I think your analysis is absolutely on track and it's definitely a personality type. In fact,

IMO, it's a variation of a sociopath. Throughout my life I've noticed this personality type. I used to have to deal with many of them in the corporate arena and they all had these same general traits that you mentioned. Some of them covered it up, but eventually it came out. It was also a trait that allowed many of them to advance successfully in corporate management.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

13. Yep. I'd say that right wing thinkers are what I'd call, "FUNCTIONAL" sociopaths

They BLEND better than outright sociopaths and psychopaths do.

[AllyCat]

207. It seems like sociopathy to me too. Just a strange, but common form of it.

[Speck Tater]

5. Conservatives want a strong leader who will tell people what to do...

Liberals want a flexible representative who will do what the people tell him to.

Some conservatives may have grownup with a bullying parent who slapped them around, and that's the only kind of "authority" they can understand. Hence their need to have a strong authority figure slap them around, and for them, in turn, to slap somebody else around, say liberals, women, gays, minorities, etc. etc.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

40. The two right wingers I know had these types of backgrounds:

The one I e-mail:

Raised in the countryside, in poverty. The father was an alcoholic. The mother cheated on the father and finally left him, abandoning the children as well. The mother married one of the men she cheated on the father with, and took the son back (the guy I e-mail with). Once he was in the house, the stepfather beat him repeatedly, until he was 16 and ran away, then joined the military. His own father died of alcoholism. He has a lot of hatred.

The Libertarian I date/dated (the relationship is nearly dead):

He grew up in a family of close-knit immigrants. The mother and father worked out of the home, and the grandparents took care of him. He lacked for nothing. Ever. Good, home-made food, family love, good clothes, private schools, and in the middle of all that, he decided to get some jobs as a kid. Mowing lawns, etc. He was also born with a genius I.Q. and became a math and physics expert. Now, in retrospect, instead of realizing he was born with every privilege, he describes himself as a hard-working, self-made man, and thinks he did it all himself, and didn't start ahead. I don't. I think he had EVERY advantage.

As someone at DU once quoted someone as saying, "he was born on third base but thought he hit a triple."

[LiberalLoner]

57. OMG that first one is almost exactly like my father. And you are right, full of hate and

abusive to anyone he thinks he can get away with abusing.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

65. I'm sorry to hear that. Amazing how different you turned out tho. nt

[LiberalLoner]

75. Thank you. I read once the difference between someone who grows up to be

abusive and one who is abused but doesn't grow up to be that way, is the presence of even ONE single person in an abused child's life who gives him or her love and in whom he or she can trust.

It makes me very sad to know that my father didn't have even ONE person like that in his own life. Sometimes I think I hate him but other times I am overwhelmed with pity for him and especially for the boy he once was, growing up in hell. I can't even describe what he grew up in. He has rickets because he wasn't even given milk as a child, that's how poorly provided for he was growing up with an alcoholic single mother and later alcoholic stepfather and mother.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

111. You do right in having pity for him. :( He probably suffered.

But these people are capable of doing some real harm to others tho. :(

Still, children love their parents no matter what they're like.

[uponit7771]

156. YES!!! One person can make SUCH a difference, the person abused will become the protector vs the...

...abuser after they grow up cause now they have an example of what not to do

[MikeH]

222. It was Alice Miller who said that

The recently deceased writer and psychotherapist http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php">Alice Miller refers to such a person in an abused person's life as a helping witness.

Her books make for very good reading, particularly her early book, now online, titled http://www.nospank.net/fyog.htm">For Your Own Good (a phrase my father very often used). In her book she documents horrendous child-rearing methods explicitly advocated and practiced in earlier centuries (including in Germany during the late 19th and early 20th century). She makes note of the extremely strict (euphemism for soul-murdering) upbringings of those who participated in the Nazi regime, from Hitler himself and high officials, to concentration camp commanders, to ordinary Germans who participated in the regime. Her book has http://www.nospank.net/fyog13.htm">an entire chapter about Adolf Hitler and his brutal upbringing, and how what he experienced growing up as a child foreshadowed what Hitler later did when he came into power.

One thing which which Alice Miller makes particular note of is the absence of helping witnesses in the early lives of Hitler and other dictators such as Stalin and Mao, which she http://www.naturalchild.org/alice_miller/political.html">documents here and elsewhere.

[renate]

89. slightly OT...

... but I think that was Molly Ivins, writing about George W. Bush.

And it is a perfect description of him.

[uponit7771]

155. What does your libertarian friend say when their life is contrasted with someone less fortunate?

Thx in advance for any input

[yardwork]

264. I've known right-wingers from both those backgrounds.

I get very tired of the privileged ones who don't want to give a dime to anybody else to help them. A lot of Republican politicians are from that kind of background. Had every opportunity but claim that they did it all themselves.

I like that "born on third base but thinks he hit a triple."

[Roselma]

6. Yes. Thanks for posting that. You are right. There is

a personality-type that is drawn to right wing type politics and policies. I see it every day. Lefties are drawn to authoritative leaders. Righties are drawn to authoritarian leaders.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

23. YES! I like that comparison. Authoritative versus AUTHORITARIAN. Perfectly stated! nt

[gratuitous]

7. It's not enough to succeed

Others must fail, for the right wing. And not just amorphous, anonymous "others," but specific others. If those other folks aren't reduced to abject poverty and misery, then all the success in the world doesn't matter to wingers.

[RKP5637]

16. Yep, the types that will continue to beat a dead horse to death as we used to

say in meetings. It was not enough they had won, they had to beat whatever to death, over and over again.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

50. Oh absolutely! They live with a burning, poisonous hatred in their gut.

They have to KNOW that somebody is suffering in order to feel worthwile. Trash people, that's all they are.

[quakerboy]

210. I genuinely think its sadder than that

They have a deep, internal knowledge of their own unworthiness. Deep self hatred. And the way they get past that without sitting at home rocking themselves in a fetal position is to project it out and hate others. Turn it out, and they don't have to look in.

[LeftishBrit]

92. As Tom Paxton said in his song 'A Truly Needy Family of Your Own'

(a satire on Reagan supporters):

For success alone is not enough to make a life complete.
It's seeing the other guy fail that makes it all so sweet!"

[no_hypocrisy]

8. As my sister once explained, authoritarians are easier to live with

because they make the decisions, not you.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

52. That's part of the problem with a lot of the women that I've met who are married to these GOPers

They're a bunch of braindead females. All they do is spread their legs, make their uterus flacid by popping out kids. I could never have a friend like that.

[treestar]

169. Right and you don't have to be responsible for the decisions

That's the only way I can understand people getting something out of someone else being in control of their lives.

And they don't have to bother with compromise and working things out, which takes time.

[no_hypocrisy]

171. 30+ years ago, my roommate married a fundamentalist Christian.

They invited me to their elopement. I found it inconsistent that they chose a justice of the peace instead of a minister. Anyway, we went to celebrate their nuptials after the ceremony. The waitress was taking our orders while the groom was in the bathroom. I asked if I should order beer for both of them and my roommate really shocked me with her response.

She said she had to wait for her husband before she answered. I concurred he should order what he wanted. No, she countered, not for that reason. She had to wait for him before she could order a beer. Now that they were married, he had to answer for all her sins in Heaven when they died. And she figured it would be economic to ask him what to do so he wouldn't spend a minute of extra time answering for her mistakes.

This was someone I used to pass out with, talk for hours in a drunken stupor, knew better than my family.

I grieved.

Epilogue: She's divorced from him, no longer a fundamentalist Christian, and thinks independently for herself.

[treestar]

177. Wow, what a story

I don't even think the Bible itself says that Husbands have to answer for their wives sins.

[no_hypocrisy]

178. Yeah, she really made my head spin with that remark.

[MedicalAdmin]

192. I guess she got tire of getting dry humped.

Literally and figuratively speaking.

[MedicalAdmin]

191. It's easier if: a) you're a doormat and happy about it,

and b) you agree with the decisions.

As I'm neither I find living with authoritarians pretty easy, but they hate living with me.

[BadgerKid]

11. Going a step further...

it's seemed to me their creation of an "enemy," real or perceived, serves as justification for advocating or carrying out any number of behaviors. In fairness, every group could come up with its own propaganda and otherwise attempt to justify its existence, but the RW has ownership of its own special kind of crazy.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

53. Exactly!! You said it perfectly.

They create an enemy so they could carry out their sociopathic-psychopathic desires to hurt someone, and still "BLEND" into the population as if they were decent human beings.

[Gregorian]

12. Yes. That's a good assessment.

I've known these things for a long long time. I guess it was obvious to me. However, dealing with them in real life was a different subject. It took me all the way to my present age of 55 before I learned to defend and protect myself from them. Otherwise, I saw this when I was a child. I was very lucky to have grown up in the perfect neighborhood. In the perfect town.


By the way, there is another attribute that they have. It's one that even liberals have. But I find it compliments the toolbox of conservatives to a greater extent. Jumping to conclusions. And once the conclusion has been made, it's fact that never changes. Such as not believing in global warming, or nuclear power. This may be due to the beliefs being handed down from their authority figures. There's something else, but I'm forgetting it right nnow.

[CJCRANE]

39. Yes, and they stick to their hand-me-down opinions even when they contradict

each other.

For example many RWers have a fear of muslims/arabs (or even a downright hatred) but at the same time they deny global warming and support Big Oil (which of course helps the countries they hate).

Also most RWers support unfettered freemarket capitalism but are against immigration (but of course a freemarket utopia would be a world without borders where money and people can move around the globe without restriction).

[Sarah Ibarruri]

56. I first noticed right wing a-holes were not 'right' in the head when I graduated from college...

That's when I began to really pay attention to what they were saying, and it struck me as odd that they would want to hurt the LEAST powerful, the POOREST, the most HELPLESS. I kept saying to myself, but those are the people one would LEAST want to hurt!!! However, it took me a long time to figure out that these people are sick. Any group with such a deep-seated need to HURT, is a group one needs to be very wary of, and not merely defend oneself from.

We Dems have been remiss in not doing that. Some of us have seen them as ordinary people, but they are not ordinary people. They have a hatred that knows no bounds, and particularly they seek to hurt those who are ALREADY HURTING. Like people who pull the wings off butterflies, or hurt puppies, or drown kitties.

Right wingers are sick a-holes. Even (and maybe more so) the ones in church on Sunday praying fervently.

[Gregorian]

122. Amazingly well stated.

I could give all kinds of examples of the things I've seen. You really pegged it. This is a very low level piece of the human substructure. It's at the foundation of our troubles on earth. Two brothers raised by the same mother can be on two ends of the spectrum. My dad is a brilliant engineer and biblical scholar. And a devout liberal. His sister is a total empty headed conservative. It's almost like she was a vessel that has been filled by other's conservative ideas. She never thought for herself. She let her husband do it. And relatives. And friends. What is strange is that she worships my father. She swears he is a genius. And yet when he writes to her regarding the political situation we are in, such as invading the Middle East, she just can't get a grip on it. She falls back into her empty conservatism.

I'm only saying this because I want to see a resolution. I keep thinking lately that there must be, there are, common beliefs and values shared between liberals and conservatives. The way we've gone, there has been little if no progress toward coming together. I think it's crucial. Maybe it's futile. After all, we literally fought a civil war over this.

And I agree with the religious idiots praying in church. My mom and dad are both very religious, and both cannot stand almost all of what they see in the name of religion.

[Cal33]

176. And one reason they choose to harm and bully the poorest and weakest is that they know

that these can't fight back. So fear and cowardlyness is at the back of their actions.
They are afraid of those who do fight back.

Applying this idea to present-day politics, it's unfortunate that Obama apparently has an
obsession, if not fixation, on his policy of "bipartisanship." By now, most people
would have already seen that one must also choose the right people to have a bipartisanship
with -- which the Corporatists, Neocons and Teabagges definitely are not. I equate having
a bipartisanship with them to having an Al Capone for a business partner. What else can
it lead to but self-destruction?

Bright as he is, Obama apparently doesn't see it. An obsession or fixation will color all
judgments and decisions when the object of the fixation is touched upon -- regardless of
how intelligent one is. I wonder if that is his problem.

I think the above could be a reason why the Repubs. continue to treat Obama the way they
do. He rarely fights back. He lets them get away with almost anything and everything.
That's the type they love to pick on.

I sometimes wonder if Obama could have a special plan up his sleeve to be used at the appropriate
time. But I realize that this is probably wishful thinking on my part.

[lunatica]

14. I've also found that they've made up their minds and facts only confuse them

They have a coping mechanism in place though. If you actually talk to them and inform them of the facts they can't fall back on their 'opinion' when trying to refute you. To them their 'opinion' is as valid as facts are. They will then agree with everything you say and act like they're listening to you. Yet the next time you hear them speaking about things their 'opinion' has reasserted itself completely. They will say the same thing word for word.

And they'll avoid you when spouting their 'opinions' thereafter.

[RKP5637]

36. And often they will say when faced with irrefutable logic, "well, if that's

what you choose to believe" and end the conversation. Like you are clearly inferior to their superior knowledge.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

64. In my lengthy e-mails with the right winger, I found out certain things:

(1) He listens religiously to right wing hate radio on his commutes
(2) He receives e-mail from several right wing hate websites
(3) He obviously does not 'trust' any facts on liberal websites, but HE ALSO CONSIDERS SITES THAT ARE NOT RIGHT WING, TO BE RIGHT WING. FOR EXAMPLE, THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION IS LEFT WING TO HIM BECAUSE IT IS NOT RIGHT WING.

With my boyfriend (or soon to be former, since we do nothing but fight about these issues), he automatically thinks of these things:

(1) That a big government is BAD because it gets in the way of business.
(2) That a country with small government is better than a country with big government.
(3) That attorneys are the source of all evil.

I point out to him that:

Civilized humans, in order to not live in chaos, always organize a representative form of government, and that he's full of shit to think that a place with a small government is better, and that if that's the way he thinks, he needs to move to Somalia and see how he likes that!

That attorneys represent people, and that he'd be the first person to go running to an atty if he were in need of defense. Also, it's right now the last recourse the poor have, since the mega-rich have lobbied in every which way to make the poor even more helpless.

He responds by saying that I don't understand him.

I have a feeling I'm understanding him TOO WELL. He is confused, but mostly he needs to have an enemy. The idea that he wants me, knowing that I'm as liberal as I am and don't mince words, is pretty difficult for him.

[LiberalLoner]

77. I know it's hard but I feel you are making absolutely the right decision. The biggest

commonality I find among right-wingers is lack of empathy for others.

I think it is worse than living alone, to be with a person who lacks empathy. I tried to have relationships like that, because I was caught up in codependency issues before I went for counseling (a TON of counseling.) They were always hell on earth for me.

I think you are dodging a bullet here, even though it just hurts right now. You will be so thankful in a few months that you got away safely. Better things, better people, will be there for you down the road.

Edited to add: I have seen right-wingers make donations, give gifts, etc. but it's always to have the appearance of being "good." They don't actually feel anything toward the recipients but disgust and resentment. They kind of play-act at having empathy but they never really FEEL it. It's kind of like they are emulating human emotions without actually experiencing them. Hard to describe but you know it when you are around it - it will give you the creeps and you won't be comfortable at all around them.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

112. Oh yes. No doubt about it.

How long will it be before I call him a right wing asshole? How long before I tell him he repulses me because his thinking is evil? Not long. And what's the point of keeping on, even if I like certain aspects of him? Anyhow, I'm letting this thing die off. I'm no longer making an effort.

[MedicalAdmin]

198. You need to shut up and spread you legs like a good RW stepford wife...

And then everything will be all 1950's Ozzie and Harriet and shit....

[CrispyQ]

247. Right wing hate radio - grrrrrrrrr.

I watched my mother morph from a fairly open minded democrat to a mean spirited close minded right winger. It happened over about an 18 month period & I had no idea where the change was coming from. But with each conversation, I could see a difference. Then one day she let on that she was listening to Rush Limbaugh. This was back in the very early 90s. I hadn't even heard of him, but when I checked him out, I was horrified.

I remember when he made that hateful comment about Chelsea Clinton, who was only 14 at the time. I asked my mother how she could listen to someone so mean & she laughed. She laughed! My mother had lots of self esteem issues when she was a young girl. For her to laugh & be so callous, well, let's just say that I was never so disgusted with her as I was at that moment.

For years I wondered how listening to an asshole like Rush could have such power over her. Then I read a post, here on DU, & the poster said that people like Rush & Beck appeal to people who are down on their luck or just having hard times. They tell them who to blame -- blame the liberals, the feminists, the Hispanics, the gays, & the list goes on. They always look for someone else to blame for their problems & shortcomings, & rarely examine if their own behavior or decisions might be the cause.

[Mimosa]

276. Saw the same brainwashing happen to an acquaintance

Limbaugh is a bad influence.

[MedicalAdmin]

196. Maybe it's PTSD.

Any cognitive disruption to harmony causes them to flashback to the close up memory of the face of their pastor/father/uncle pumping away above them....

Who knows for sure, but I've noticed the same thing. Maybe they avoid games they know they can't win and people they know they can't beat or join with in a mob...

[FarLeftFist]

15. Conservatism always always always boils down to HATRED.

Without hatred conservatism could not exist. Why else would they NOT want our citizens to have a better life, better healthcare, better education, higher wages, workers rights, etc. HATRED. There is NO SUCH THING as a compassionate conservative. They are a bizarre cult that only cares about 3 things, God, Guns, and Militarism. They are paranoid and delusional.

[RKP5637]

25. Exactly, God, Guns, and Militarism taken to a paranoid delusional state. And it's

a compulsion. There is no talking logic with then, it is a compulsive paranoid delusional state. I ran across one the other day, just a quick look in their eyes one could quickly tell there were some menacing thoughts going on, and then they started talking.:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

66. I'm with you. There is no such thing as a compassionate conservative. It doesn't exist.

Period!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

67. I'm with you. There is no such thing as a compassionate conservative. It doesn't exist.

Period!

[CleanGreenFuture]

17. Yep, you nailed it. Good post to remind us what we're dealing with.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

69. Thanks. I LOVE to investigate the right wingnuts.

Mostly, for my own sanity. I just cannot get past the idea that anyone would want to:

(1) Hurt the least able, and make them out to be monsters;
(2) Destroy his own country and throw it under the bus to further enrich and empower the already mega-rich and powerful;
(3) Hide behind pro-life when he's pro-death, hide behind charity when he's against welfare (and getting tax benefits from charity), hide behind church when he is trying to hurt the least among us, and hide behind family values when he's getting diapered by a prostitute that wanks him off, or visiting Argentinian mistresses on Father's Day.

[graywarrior]

19. They're egomanicas with inferiority complexes

[Sarah Ibarruri]

70. Good description!! nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Conservatives without a conscience by John dean.

Oh and the true believer...read them..it will deepen that understanding.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

71. I read it, my friend, I read it. After reading it, I ORDERED MY OWN COPY! It is amazing. nt

[JustAnotherGen]

21. They operate from

A place of fear. That fear renders them incapable of thinking outside of the box. . .

[Sarah Ibarruri]

72. But you know, then they need to get themselves some psychological help

It's not MY FAULT that they are f****d up, and I will not allow f****d up people to destroy the majority of people in my country, my country, the least able and most helpless in my country, and to turn my country into a fascist nightmare.

If they need help, they by all means should ask for church funds and get themselves to a shrink.

[MadMaddie]

120. Exactly! With that kind of fear you get overreaction like

we saw in 9/11.

Same fear when a black guy gets elected, all of a sudden decisons that have been made in the past by white presidents are questioned.

[carolinayellowdog]

22. It's about gender and male privilege etc.

Hey, I don't communicate with rightwingers at all, and would urge you to ditch that straight jerk for a man who's in touch with both sides of himself/reality/the world. As a gay man, perhaps I'm biased-- but heterosexual masculinity of the winger variety seems to be ALL ABOUT winning over vulnerable opponents/enemies/victims. Rightwinger males absolutely worship big powerful men-- while hating queers and women who don't know their place. Something smells funny to me in all that.

LET HIM GO-- AND FIND A "REAL MAN" who is a real empathetic human being instead of an instrument of the patriarchy.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

74. You'll be relieved to hear that the thing is dying fast. I simply cannot continue this way

To be honest, I have no clue why he wants me so much. If you heard the things I say. I just cannot stop myself from speaking truth. I cannot and will not, and these things hurt him, so you can see that this isn't going to work.

[MedicalAdmin]

199. I haven't met a hard RW guy who didn't want the dick...

... but feared the label more than death.

[CJCRANE]

26. Which is worse: welfare cheat or corporate fraud?

That's my litmus test for whether someone is LW or RW.

It shows whether they side with the underdogs or the overlords (and also whether they base their politics on fact or emotion).

[Sarah Ibarruri]

79. I asked the right wingers that exact question!

To me, the corporate fraud is worse because:

1) They know far better
2) They have more power and money to manipulate (lobby)
3) They already have enough and don't need to be manipulating to get MORE (greedy bastards)

FYI: Both, the Libertarian and the right wingnut said something akin to: It's the principle of the thing.

My response to each was something like to: Apparently not even that, because YOU attack ONLY the poor that cheat, and never the mega-rich that do.

[CJCRANE]

85. Precisely...

Also I'm pretty sure that corporate fraud dwarfs welfare fraud several times over.

Then when you see the multi-trillion dollar bailouts for banks and corporations worldwide it's obvious who is really bilking the system.

[cilla4progress]

164. I long ago resolved this for myself --

in that it is never the poor and powerless who are responsible for bringing down societies...only the rich and powerful have the tools and influence to do that, and should be held accountable! It's only rational, right?


Very interesting thread..thank you!

[Cal33]

221. It depends on what you mean by "bringing down societies." The French Revolution

is an example. The poor were brought to such a point that they felt they
had nothing more to lose. At that point many felt they had nothing to live
for, and life wasn't worth it. So they were willing to risk their lives
through revolution. They had some able leaders, of course.

[cilla4progress]

260. Thank you for this apt observation -

I stand corrected. I need to ponder this for a bit, in order to fit it into my analysis.

I suppose there is a tipping point - where critical mass is reached, and then, indeed, the powerless can coalesce into a force that by sheer numbers can counter the political and financial power of the elite.

What this would hinge on then, are two primary factors at work: 1) cohesion of the lower / middle classes; and 2) high misery, as you indicate. It reminds me of something a PoliSci professor in college used to say (back in the 1970s), about the Cold War and nuclear war: we shouldn't expect it from - at that time - the Soviet Union; they had as much at stake as the west. More likely, it would come from some desperate corner of the planet, where the people had nothing to lose in total devastation.

I wonder if we will reach that point in the U.S? I know many are asking, where are the marches on Washington? Where is the visible outrage? One answer I heard is that no one can afford to get to D.C.!

[hifiguy]

27. There's a book available about this phenomenon:

available at this link: http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/ . John Dean and Thomas Frank have also been writing about the rise of authoritarianism for quite some time now.

See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism

It is quite probably a psychological disorder. What is terrifying is that it is a psychological disorder that can be induced and reinforced by exposure to media designed to do just that.

[GliderGuider]

33. I highly recommend that book! A great piece of work. nt

[FiveGoodMen]

44. "a psychological disorder that can be induced and reinforced"

Hate Radio and the Megachurches -- that's all either one of them does.

Those two forces of evil need to be defeated.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

80. John Dean discusses this in his book. I've been meaning to look up the book Authoritarians

I would love to read it.

[hifiguy]

104. The whole book is available

at that link, Sarah. As well as some updates.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

107. Excellent, thank you. I plan to read it. nt

[Odin2005]

127. Damn, you beat me to it!

[BiggJawn]

139. I was going to recommend that book.

Bob Altemeyer nailed it on the head IMO. Scary place we're headed for.

[nxylas]

184. Umberto Eco's essay Eternal Fascism is also enlightening

Fascism is notoriously slippery to define, due to its lack of intellectual rigor, anti-intellectualism being one of its core tenets. But Eco does a pretty good job of coming up with a workable list of its essential elements. And yes, I believe the Fascist label fits the Tea Party.

[kctim]

28. You are speaking from personal opinion, not experience

[hifiguy]

29. Read this link and try again.

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

It's a mental disorder.

[kctim]

42. I have

and it is no different than the link a friend sent me "explaining" how liberalism is a mental disorder. Both are nothing but opinionated 'studies' that assume their individual opinion is the only correct opinion. Both also take the actions of the very extreme parts of the opposing party and attribute them to the party as a whole.

Basic facts show what drivel both 'studies' truly are.

[hifiguy]

43. Whatever.

:eyes: I am done engaging with you. Period. Congrats. You're only the third person I have put on ignore in six years here, on and off.

[kctim]

59. Thats cool

its easier to ignore than face facts.

[LanternWaste]

149. And easier to minimize people...

"its easier to ignore than face facts..."

And easier to minimize people than remain civil also, it would seem... :shrug:

[MedicalAdmin]

203. And it's easier to run your pie hole than present facts.

Feel free to write out your critique or post a link to a critique. We'll consider it.

[RC]

51. Try this link

Profile of the Sociopath
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1655047&mesg_id=1655648

[kctim]

62. Great link

What criteria do you use in order to attribute all of those to an entire group to prove they are all sociopaths?

[GoneOffShore]

68. Could you provide some of those "Basic facts" please?

You know, just for fun.

[kctim]

152. .

If Republicans all desire authoritarism, then why do they preach individualism and fight against too much government authority over our private lives?
Basic fact: Republicans desire smaller government that respects individualism.

If Democrats all desire a socialist dictatorship to provide for them from cradle to grave, then why do they preach democracy and fight so that everybody has an equal voice?
Basic fact: Democrats desire effective government that respects the needs of individuals.

[bongbong]

170. Simple answers to your simple question

> Basic fact: Republicans desire smaller government that respects individualism.

Because they've been ordered to by their authoritarian heroes, Big Business Billionaires, via hate-radio & hate-churches & hate-websites. repig idols, the billionaires, hate big government because it interferes with their profit making schemes like dumping their pollution into public waters.

> If Democrats all desire a socialist dictatorship to provide for them from cradle to grave, then why do they preach democracy and fight so that everybody has an equal voice?

This is a lie promulgated by right-wing hate-websites. Some Democrats want a "socialist dictatorship", but it might be 1% of Democrats at best. Democratic Socialism like that espoused by Bernie Sanders would probably get the greatest number of votes if you polled real Democrats.

[kctim]

258. You are guilty of doing the same thing as those 'studies'

You disagree with a differing opinion so you try and associate it with the exteme versions in hopes of gaining support for the opinion you favor.

A differing opinion is not a mental disorder.

[GoneOffShore]

248. You are making assertions - not providing sited studies.

You're providing us with a point of view - yours - but not saying anything else.

[kctim]

259. Hardly just an assertion

We can walk down any street and I could prove that not all Republicans or Democrats believe in the exact same thing.

Its funny. The extremes on both sides complain how brainwashing and mental disorders are why the 'other side' all think alike, but yet they are the ones who eat their own for daring not to blindly agree with them on everything.

[GoneOffShore]

271. That's not the crux or point of the article.

You're still making assertions without citing one reference.

Either of us could indulge in that particular exercise - it's not whether Republicans or Democrats believe the same things. It's whether or not there is a particular mind set that exists amongst those who cling to ideologies.

That whole authoritarian submission aspect versus freedom.

Plus you've got a lovable strawman going.

And on another note - go read Lucretius.

[kctim]

272. Those two 'studies'

use opinion to "explain" the particular mind set they are against: liberals or conservative.

Those two 'studies' are based on the assumption that their definitions are the ONLY ones that are "logical": Freedom is this and only this, any other definition is wrong.

And finally, those two 'studies' then take the extreme actions of a few and try and pass them off on the whole, in a weak attempt to present their opinons as facts: Rep or Dem believes in no govt or total govt control so ALL Reps or Dems believe the same.

The point of the articles is to claim all Reps or Dems are evil because they all share the same mind set as the loons on the fringe.
The point of the articles is to convince people that differing opinions should be ignored and dismissed because they are part of a particular mindset.
The point of the articles is to gain support at any cost.

[GoneOffShore]

273. You do miss the point a lot don't you? I can see why you get put on Ignore.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

81. Let me put it to you this way, right wingers are hate-filled people, even if they 'pass'

and even if they 'blend.'

Sick puppies and a-holes, all of them.

[pipi_k]

129. I've known a few hate-filled left wingers too...

In fact, some friends and I were just reminiscing earlier today about one in particular that we all knew.

She hated everyone. Her parents. Her doctor. People who like bathroom humor. People who disagreed with her. People who didn't fall for her "poor me, I'm such a victim of everybody" bullshit.

She was banned from her local Starbucks, the Blockbusters, and she called in a bomb threat to her doctor's office.

As left-wing as they come, and filled with hatred and contempt for everyone.

And she's not the only one, so I don't even want to hear that she's an exception to some idiotic rule.

Right wingers aren't ALL filled with hatred, and Left Wingers aren't ALL a bunch of saints.

[U4ikLefty]

135. Dishonest.

[pipi_k]

234. Would you mind expanding a bit

on that opinion?

What exactly is "dishonest", and why...

thanks so much

[DirkGently]

160. Lefties are hateful only when they circle back around to authoritarianism, in my observation.

I don't think the OP claimed leftwingers were saints. But in America, anyway, the rightWING is defined by hate. By the Enemies List. It's driven by fear of the Other. Teachers. Scientists. Journalists. Non-Christians (except Jews "holding" the Promised Land for them). Hippies. The poor. Artists. Immigrants. Minorities. Gay people. Women.

Essentially anyone who might observe or analyze or report anything with any tools other than ideology, because logic and reason and observation by definition contradict them. Thus the notion of some kind of amorphous, all-encompassing "bias" among all the world's journalists, and scientists save for those expressly employed to push a right-wing viewpoint. Beware the light-bringers, they are heretic.

Worse is anyone with less-than-equal access to resources, which implies to them a threat that situation might be reversed. Thus the constant framing of any discussion of equal rights as a demand for "special rights." The rumors that "they" are out to take over and teach homosexuality to kindergardeners, or extract "slavery reparations," or enact "Sharia law."

I'd agree people can be fearful and hateful from any number of political or economic viewpoints, but the American rightwing is predominently driven by a desire to take unfairly, and to justify that taking with a cynical view that the world is only about who has more, that those who traditionally HAVE more already are the true and proper owners of us all, and that anything that would tend to upset that order, whether it's education or the notion of equal rights, or any human cooperation that isn't directed to violently enforcing the dominance of the already-dominant, is a bad thing.

*Edited for a variety of flourishes and corrections*

[pipi_k]

236. Well, if hate is caused by fear...

then one would think a group of LIBERAL...tolerant...intelligent people such as we are supposed to be here at DU would be a little more understanding of such things. More...compassionate.

But no.

I see little compassion for people who, by your description, are filled with hate because they are extremely fearful.

All I see is hatred, returned to/upon them with as much, or more, force as the original hatred.


They have emotional problems, but it's OK to hate them.

Nice

:eyes:

[DirkGently]

240. I think it's the stupidity that's hated. That's logic, not irrationality.

[pipi_k]

246. In some cases, yes...

I have seen people address only the stupidity without attacking the people who are doing the stupid things.

But I think there are way more people who don't do that. They ridicule and insult the ones who are doing or saying or thinking stupid things. And they don't even know where the "stupidity" is coming from. Low intelligence? Cognitive disorders? Some kind of disabling mind disease? Bad programming in childhood?

Who knows.

All I know is that it doesn't look very "progressive" for people to hate on others for things they might not be able to help.

[kctim]

153. Could you give an example, instead of a generalization?

[polmaven]

Wait!!!

You just used the words "right wing" and "brain" in the same sentence!!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Good job!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

82. I know lol nt

[housewolf]

30. You might be interested in John Dean's "Conscious of a Conservative"

He was Richard Nixon's counsel and the one who stood firm to a principle of justice and honesty and emerged sort of the "hero" of the Watergate story. He's moved away from the GOP and Conservatism and turned an exploring eye on them. His book, "Conscious of a Conservative" lays out the Authoritarian mindset and bahavior and is a real eye-opener.

Check it out! You'll find some validation for your theories.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

84. Wonderful book. I strongly urge EVERYONE read it! Thanks for bringing this up. nt

[Raksha]

148. Are you sure it was John Dean who wrote "Conscience of a Conservative"?

I thought it was Barry Goldwater who wrote it in the early 1960s.

[Sentath]

175. I think you mean

Conservatives Without Conscience. Author: John Dean. Publisher: Penguin

Freely available is the popularized version of the research he sites, Bob Altemeyer's - The Authoritarians: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.cc.umanitoba.ca%2F~altemey%2F&ei=PrQ6TqDZK-_r0QHdysDBAw&usg=AFQjCNGsOabO7wejBTij6UPawYnIK9epLA&sig2=scz_FI8fVC6lKkyqr2DQIQ

[MedicalAdmin]

204. I've just reserved a copy at my library. Thanks for the heads up. n/t

[The Doctor.]

31. Excellent observation.

(And excellent use of English, with the marginal exception of 'woman' as singular. That's a point I'll get back to.)

They also tend to have an under utilized Anterior Cingulate Cortex. That's the part of the brain that compiles and sorts information for the prefrontal cortex where decisions tend to be made. That leaves them without the ability to make many sorts of distinctions and find similarities. If someone or something is outside of their 'standard', even by a little, they will have a tendency to classify it as 'other' and 'bad'. That's the main reason for their black and white mentality.

I very much like what you've said, because it's one of the few things you can say directly to them that they cannot hide from psychologically.



As for the point I wanted to get back to; How is your 'Libertarian' friend's spelling and grammar? (Just curious)

[Sarah Ibarruri]

86. My Libertarian friend has a high I.Q., and great spelling.

He doesn't have much intelligence when it comes to realizing that if you're going to impoverish people, sooner or later it WILL affect everyone. There will be mass poverty, there will be crime, etc.

[LiberalLoner]

98. My husband has an ex-friend who is a right-winger. He was very smart but has had

failed relationships and has been fired from various jobs because of a problem getting along with other people.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

108. Maybe he needs to join a church and turn into a right wingbot like the rest of them?

Maybe then he will find employment among the right wing. (wink!)

[MedicalAdmin]

206. That's because he was raised with everything...

... but thinks he was raised with nothing.

So when people say they are suffering, that is what he thinks is nothing.

Serious disconnect.

[Old Codger]

34. absolutely correct

They crave attention and will do almost anything to prove they are correct regardless of reality.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

99. They do. nt

[Chimichurri]

35. Absolutely. The right wingers I know were the bullies growing up. Except they only

went after the weaker and younger ones amongst us. They wouldn't dare challenge the one's who were bigger or could defend themselves because beneath all their chest beating, was a huge coward.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

100. That's the KEY to right wingers. They only want to hurt the weak. nt

[Horse with no Name]

38. Terri Schiavo had more functioning brain cells than these cretins combined. n/t

[Sarah Ibarruri]

101. Some of them are not low in I.Q., but they are brutal in their heart.

Mean as hell inside.

[Initech]

41. George Carlin put it best:

"The left brain says give peace a chance. The right brain says give peace a chance but first let's kill this motherfucker. The center brain says give peace a chance but first let's go to the rally and get laid."

[Sarah Ibarruri]

102. LOL! I love it: "The right brain says give peace a chance but first let's kill this motherfucker."

I miss George Carlin.

[Initech]

145. He was a prophet.

It's driving me crazy though I cant remember what album that's from - I think it's either Jammin In New York or Back In Town.

[Permanut]

45. Spot on, Sarah, K & R

and I'll second the recommendation by nadinbrzinski of the True Believer by Eric Hoffer. It was written in 1951, and provided my first look into the mind of a fanatic. Includes the idea of the need for an enemy.

[EC]

46. They also have to feel like they are being persecuted.

That's why so many of the repub pols tell them that Dems are trying to wipe them out, or the Church tells them that Liberals are out to abolish the Christian Church...yada, yada, yada...


I also see a lot of jealousy in them.

[CJCRANE]

60. I wonder if that explains the "both sides do it" response.

When RWers say "both sides do it" it's used as an excuse/justification for their own side:
"whatever the other guy does I can do too!"

But when a lefty says "both sides do it" it's usually in disappointment in their own party:
"two wrongs don't make a right".

[RC]

47. Profile of the Sociopath

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

[elleng]

143. Thanks for this.

Married to/separated from one. At least when I recognized this syndrome, I was able to stop taking anti-depression meds; now take anti-stress, at particular times.

[JoePhilly]

48. Bingo .. their own self worth is RELATIVE.

Here is my example.

I'm a white guy in my 40s and I stay in touch with my friends from high school. They are also white guys in their 40s.

But politically, the group is diverse.

Here's the thing ... we try to get together about once a year, a golf trip. When we do, we catch up on people we used to know.

Regularly, we'll discuss some white guy we knew who is now in jail, a dead beat drugs, what ever. And, at some point, "minorities" get pulled in. They are the ones who "usually" do the things that this White guy we used to know did.

Its like they are building a wall. There is this white guy we knew. He got into drugs, stole from family and friends, ended up in jail ... "just like so many minorities do".

The guys doesn't become a negative example of what a white person does ... no ... he is an example of what "minorities" do.

And then the kicker ... "Glad WE aren't like those minorities" ... even though the actual story is about a white guy we used to know.

But my right wing friends feel better about themselves. After all, they could never fall into the minority trap that the white guy we knew fell into.

It is an amazing stretch ... but apparently, they are limber enough to make it.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

103. Yep! They create scapegoats and think they are immune. However...

I've been keeping track of all the right wingnuts I've seen who have fallen on hard times, and you know what?

When a right wingnut falls on hard times, they're right there with their hand out, asking for help from the government they wanted to destroy.

And only the mega-rich is immune from stuff like that.

I think some men (and I'm not getting sexist here) just get very nervous thinking about reality, how things need to be fixed, the problems in a country, etc., and they'd rather hear that this country is strong, powerful, and only a certain failed segment of the population is suffering, due to their own choices. They just want to isolate themselves from thinking that crap can happen to them.

Well, tell your friends to give me a call. I can tell them stories about right wingnuts who were once doing well, but their fortunes turned, and landing them in the gutter and therefore on welfare.

[shireen]

147. empathy ....

When a right wingnut falls on hard times, they're right there with their hand out, asking for help from the government they wanted to destroy.

Do you know if they changed after that experience? Many times, people develop empathy based on their own experiences of hardship. So i'm curious to know if they remain right-wingers after experiencing difficult times.

[MedicalAdmin]

213. They also steal when they fall on hard times or even moderate times.

There is a RW nut in MN who is doing time for stealing from the charitable organization she worked for. When asked why she stole over 250,000 she said it was because she thought she deserved more money than she was getting paid. She was getting paid almost 100K = benefits. Yikes.

[haele]

225. Most will remain right-wingers after experiencing hard times.

Because even faced with evidence that they might have contributed to their own problems, or that the issue was something no one could have controlled or anticipated, it's always got to be someone's fault.
Someone else's fault.
Never their fault.
Never something that could happen to anyone.
Never a reason that could challenge their pre-conceptions.

The problem can only occur because of an enemy - or the enemy's wiles, or the enemy's minions.

If the enemy is a liberal, then it's never the fault of any good, conservative person or their actions. A conservative would never cheat, lie, or steal when it comes to a fellow true believer. And if the self-proclaimed conservative did screw them over, it was really just a matter of friendly fire, and they didn't really mean to take advantage of their fellow conservative tribesmates...
And maybe, a right-winger who falls into hard times might justify it like Job - they're just being tested, or they might deserve it because they were being perhaps a bit too tolerant and let the loony left-winger make them "soft".

Back again to "it's someone else's fault". Black and white thinking.

Whereas a liberal can believe that a fellow liberal might just be a bit more self-serving than they themselves are, and will freely admit that anyone - in fact, everyone - can be a tool or cheat or liar if they think it will serve them better. And that a person is going to be as responsible as they are personally capable of being responsible, even if it is short (heck, far short) of what living in a society - any society - expects of them. A liberal will say - if we can be better, we should strive to be better. If we can't, then we should strive to mitigate damage - ensure we don't screw it up for everyone else as well as ourselves.

IME, right-wingers don't tend to be very big on being better for or mitigating damage to others - just for themselves.

Haele

[DirkGently]

172. Huge point there. Out-of-group bad folks are "typical." In-group are "bad apples."

Like the Norwegian whose act of mass murder went from TERRORISM! to "lone nut who incidentally subscribed to rightwing ideology" instantaneously when his identity as a white Christian conservative was revealed.

Hardly news, really. Just another in a curiously long string of anomalies where, for unknown reasons, perfectly decent white Christian conservative people commit horrendous acts of ideologically driven violence.

A few bad apples is all.

[Mosaic]

254. I actually beep my car horn at whites

I've been nearly robbed and assaulted by whites so I fear them. It doesn't matter if I am white or a minority, the fear is the same.

[proud patriot]

54. sounds about right to me

[LiberalLoner]

55. Excellent observation and so true! n/t K&R

[Bryn]

58. Have you noticed that most conservatives say this:

"Wake Up". I see them on Twitter and facebook. Even my conservative sister says "Wake Up". What's up with this "wake up" thing?

[fascisthunter]

63. their implication is that we live in a fantasy world...

yet, it is their own distorted view and apathy towards human beings that twists their own judgment of others.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

106. Maybe that's what they are trying to tell themselves, since the a-holes are in dreamland.

They think they're immune. Stupid idiots.

[MedicalAdmin]

214. That one is also prevalent on the left.

I see it on DU along with the phrase sheeple.

Both of which are indicative of lazy thinking..

[fascisthunter]

61. probably a result of child abuse too

I grew up near a violent family. The father beat these kids so bad, you could hear the cries from two houses away. Yes, neighbors have called the police because of the disturbance. One of the three brothers was a full-blown sociopath... the oldest of the three threatened the youngest with rape(makes me wonder if he was sexually abused)... that was all I was going to subject myself to... they were all damaged and looked at the world around them mercilessly. The ultimate right wing family... flags, religion, they were a stereotype, and yes they were bigots too.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

96. That wouldn't surprise me. It's probably the reason they love authoritarians

They are only used to authoritarians. They can't deal with anyone who isn't one, and wouldn't know how to.

[southernyankeebelle]

76. I find many who are like this really haven't been in the military. Majority

of soldiers do not want to go to war unless your crazy. I know my dad and father-in-law both served in wars and both have said if you ever been in battle you wouldnt want a war.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

95. Well, both of these, the Libertarian and the right winger, were in the military

And they're both right wingers. I know some in the military don't think that way.

[LiberalLoner]

97. OMG I know so many right-wingers and Libertarians in the leadership of the

Army (especially the senior leadership) that it's almost a universal trait. My husband was literally told (when he revealed himself as a Democrat) "well you chose the wrong profession to be in, didn't you?" He almost slugged the fellow officer who said that to him. It was great schadenfreude when he made 0-6 and the other guy was stuck at 0-5.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

109. Maybe he can just stay out of discussions, and join lib groups.

Sometimes to retain a job filled with right wing assholes, one must keep silent. I find it very difficult, but then I would end up in jail probably if I were in the military. I'd end up calling some right wing an AH. :)

[MedicalAdmin]

216. I too have met military personnel who are RW divot-heads.

Neither of them served in combat and really had "hoped and prayed" for the boon of experiencing combat. Speaking as a former SWAT hostage rescue squad member, I can say that I wouldn't walk into combat without a REAL good reason.

FYI - almost 100% of the members of the SWAT teams were rabid democrats.

[MedicalAdmin]

215. Chicken hawks.

Sheesh. I met a few at a party with my friend Bill. Bill and I were both former SWAT members and Bill also served 3 terms as a recon in Nam. Bill is not someone I would ever fuck with.

But these chicken hawks fucked with him and he set them straight in simple and loud language that ridiculed them for their naive and stupid opinions. I loved seeing that.

[VWolf]

223. "War is sweet to those who haven't tasted it." — Erasmus n/t

[OHdem10]

78. Authoritarian. Absolutists --black or white, no shades of gray.

Certitude. This is why GWB was good for the base.
The Walk had been studied--look determined and purposeful
and absolutely sure of yourself. Say you are a Leader.

This is why they like so many rules but say they fight
for freedom.

Certitude. I have the way the truth and the Light, follow
me. It is my way or the Highway.

This is the type of Republican we have in DC.

However, all regular Republicans are not like that.
There are Republicans who cannot believe what they
are seeing with these Tea Party Legislators.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

94. Well, I have yet to meet a right winger that does not hold right wing ideals...

And right wing ideals do NOT have the well-being of a country's people in mind. They simply do not. They have the well-being of the wealthy classes in mind, only.

[Stuart G]

83. In the 50s there was a book about this attitue..Erick Hoffer

It was called , "The True Beleiver"

[Sarah Ibarruri]

91. I'm going to look this book up too. Wow, there are some really good books out there on this! nt

[XemaSab]

87. You should read Moral Politics by Lakoff

It's all about what you're talking about.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

90. I'm going to order it from Amazon. Thanks for the recommendation!!! nt

[XanaDUer]

88. +1

nt.

[JHB]

93. I've called it " Woim Syndrome"...

...after the toady to Butch the Bully from he Little Rascals.

[wiggs]

105. Yes. Doesn't have much to do with intelligence, has to do with doctrine. That's why

there are dittoheads who worship Rush, patriots who worship some imaginary sacred constitution...why the military is sacrosanct, why the RW's religion is fundamentalism that must inform the govt, why there are teabagger pledges that must be signed, why every issue is black and white not grey, and why understanding of complicated issues by Michelle and Sarah and George is not required but adherence to RW doctrine is all that is necessary to lead the country.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

110. They're idiots, all of them, even the ones that aren't out there screaming,

even the ones that go to church, even the one that I date. Idiots, all of them.

[wiggs]

121. Can't disagree. But I know some smart idiots. One of them is a bright

engineer...however when it comes to politics he somehow is able to deny logic, reason, facts, history, etc. He becomes blind, rabid. We've exchanged many dozens of political emails and I just have to abstain now...there's no changing a closed mind.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

138. My boyfriend has a genius I.Q. and is a Libertarian. But he's still a right winger.

No amount of smarts will wipe away their hatred.

[B Calm]

113. what gets me is how they don't see republicans giving socialism to the wealthy

[Sarah Ibarruri]

115. Oh of course not. Because in reality they don't mind Communism or socialism...

They only use ideas to benefit the rich, and to hurt the helpless. Doesn't really much matter what idea they must use, as long as it benefits the mega-rich and hurts the helpless.

[B Calm]

117. I told one today that democrats all voted no to oil subsidies for oil companies

and the republicans all voted yes. He replied that if not for the subsidies to oil companies the price of gas would have went through the roof. HA HA

[Sarah Ibarruri]

118. That's because the idiots don't educate themselves. I can't be around these people.

I swear I can't.

[NNN0LHI]

114. Generally a daddy figure is very well liked by Americans. Not just right wing Americans either

When Bush's approval numbers shot up to +90% after 911 I realized that.

Don

[Sarah Ibarruri]

116. See, I don't get that about right wingnuts.

. A true father figure wouldn't be an idiot with an I.Q. of 70. A true father figure would know how to speak AT LEAST one language. A true father figure wouldn't be a buffoon. GW Bush was never a father figure.

[DirkGently]

119. Yep. Insecure people with a need to see others suffer to feel they are doing well.

[Whisp]

123. if you understand that rw brain and you want to break up with that winger

don't let him know when you are alone with him.

they have this thing about ownership and 'taming' women too.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

124. Nobody tames me. I'm not kidding. I'd rather be alone.

I don't appear tough, but I am tough.

[Whisp]

128. I wasn't suggesting you were. :)

just don't be alone with him when you break the news. they get attached to what they 'own'.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

133. I've given him an ultimatum. Either he stops being right wing, or this is over.

He claims he's not right wing. I think all Libertarians do that, pretend not to be right wing, and that's all they are.

[Whisp]

134. he's not going to stop, I'm afraid.

Its like asking someone to change their eye colour.

It's really really hard to change oneself, let alone others.

but I wish you all the best, :D
I wish you get what you want

[Sarah Ibarruri]

136. I know he won't change, but at least he has the rules set for him.

Either he becomes legitimately lib, and he understands it from the heart, or this is over.

[pipi_k]

182. Just give up

If being Right Wing is really some sort of mental illness as so many claim, then demanding that he "Stop being right wing" is as useless and ridiculous as demanding that someone stop being anxious or depressed or OCD.

And if it's not a mental illness, but a deeply held set of beliefs, then it's the same.

What if someone said to you, "Stop being left wing"? You would snap to attention, yell out "Yes sir!!!" and all your beliefs would disappear to be automatically replaced by something else?

Sigh...

[Sarah Ibarruri]

228. I know it won't do change him, but it will make him realize that unless he's a leftie...

I don't want to be with him.

[pipi_k]

233. Well if he doesn't know it by now

that probably means he doesn't understand the concept of mixed messages.

I lived for five years with someone who constantly sent me mixed messages. People who do that don't have relationships. They hold hostages.

I really hope your "boyfriend" doesn't wait that long to figure it out.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

261. I don't know how much clearer I can be with him, you know?

Maybe he needs it put on billboards or something.

To be honest, I wish he'd change, but I know I'm insane to be expecting that.

:(

[seaglass]

267. My husband had a lot of rw views when I met him and while I wouldn't

want to call him a homophobe - he did (past tense) have negative feelings about gay men based on ignorance.

Verbal abuse did not change my husband and it's never going to change your bf. I've always felt show works better than tell.

I'll say it again. If you don't think he can change and you can't tolerate him as he is, if you need to continue to verbally abuse him and talk meanly behind his back then just let him go...

[Sarah Ibarruri]

269. I am, I am. It's just a slow-motion letting go, that's all. nt

[spanone]

125. k&r...

[Odin2005]

126. Google "The Authoritarians" by Bob Altmeyer. He has the whole book free online.

[Snarkoleptic]

131. Here's the link...

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

A lot of pegs fall into their slots after reading about the mentality that leads people to conservatism.

[Snarkoleptic]

132. On edit, I see he's written a piece on the baggers as well.

linkski...
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/drbob/Comment%20on%20the%20Tea%20Party.pdf

[TNLib]

130. Yep

Living in the south it appears to be a cultural thing as well.

[Proles]

137. You pretty much summed it up (nt)

[Penguin31]

140. Conservatives see things in black and white

Either yes or no. Friend or enemy. A very, very limited perspective on the world.

[Fuzz]

141. Low self esteem coupled with envy.

[elleng]

142. John Dean has summarized it,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatives_without_Conscience

others have analyzed it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Altemeyer

[toddwv]

144. Excellent post.

[Betty Karlson]

146. I'll resond in an OP of my own.

Because I disagree with you; I think the emphasis of the rights wingnut mind lays elsewhere. What you describe are the symptoms, not the workings, of the right wingnut mind.

But right now, I little time to make that long entry. Will try tomorrow. Sorry about that.

[COLGATE4]

150. Recommend. K&R

[checks-n-balances]

151. This DEFINITELY applies to religious fundamentalists as well

Thank you for posting this, Sarah - a keeper!!

[uponit7771]

157. What does your libertarian friend say when their life is contrasted with someone less fortunate?

When people are made to answer for their logic usually they start thinking harder about what drives said logic...maybe he's not be MADE to think about his position in life.

Thx in advance for any input...

[MissDeeds]

158. You absolutely nailed it

I'd just add that they love the military and wars as long as they aren't expected to fight in them.

Like Howard Dean said,"I hate Republicans and everything they stand for. They're mean".

[proud2BlibKansan]

159. There's also a key point in that Matt Damon video where he smacks down the cameraman

Cameraman says 10% of all teachers are bad. Matt Damon's mom asks him where he got that figure. Cameraman says "10% of people in any profession should maybe think of something else"

Here it's at the 50 second mark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFHJkvEwyhk&feature=related

What kind of a crappy negative outlook do you have to have to assume that 10% of people in any profession are incompetent? I loved Matt Damon's smackdown and this video has gone viral among teachers the last couple days. But my first reaction was how sad that anyone would be so negative to assume that so many workers are in the wrong profession. And it's just a fact - he says it as if anyone would agree with this. Just blew my mind.

[JoeyT]

162. Yeah, that sounds about right.

They go in for tribalism in a big way too. Anything that doesn't come from one of their propaganda channels is ignored. Any fact cited is dismissed as being left wing lies, no matter where it comes from. It would be funny if it weren't sad.

They're also absolutely convinced that they're the ones that are really being oppressed. It doesn't matter that more than 80% of the country and 99.9% of the planet has it worse than them. They're still bound and determined to be the only ones that have ever faced oppression, since they define oppression as "Goddamned liberals won't let me oppress people!".

I already learned my lesson about dating right wingers, authoritarians, and zealots. All at once from the same person. You'd think growing up in an area full of them with a family full of them would have been enough to teach me better. Apparently it was not.

[DainBramaged]

163. NASCAR- uses symbols of patriotism to pretend it is America's sport

along with invocations before every race, yet their customers generally are not the brightest bulbs in the box. And they are mos definitely Southern Centric in everything they do. Oh, and they are a private company, so they don't give a fuck.

[klook]

167. The whole idea that driving a car is a "sport" cracks me up. (n/t)

[DainBramaged]

174. Try driving at two hundred miles an hour at 140 degrees for three hours

think you can do it? Any fat guys in NASCAR? Know what kind of a regimen the drivers go through? Know why Mark martin in his fifties still drives?

[klook]

230. So effin' what?

Still ain't no sport.

Psst, it's the car that moves the man, not the man moving the car. Capiche?
- Richie Whitt, Dallas Observer

Competitive welding is physically demanding, too. Is it a sport? How about playing the piano? Eating hot dogs?

[DainBramaged]

249. As if you could make a quarter lap driving one...meh

[klook]

262. "But I came here for an argument!!"

"OH! Oh! I'm sorry! This is abuse! You want room 12A, next door."



I imagine you and I could have a productive discussion about something, Dain -- possibly even a productive argument. But obviously this isn't it. See ya in the funny papers.

[DainBramaged]

263. Your Mother was a hamster and your Father smelled of elderberries.....

Having BEEN a real honest to goodness racer back in the day, and a pretty good engine builder, I'd say this isn't an argument....however, my SPORT of choice right now IS NASCAR, because I am well versed in it.


PS


I stopped getting the newspaper years ago because what's in the paper isn't news....we'll have a productive discussion down the road.......


:hi:

[JVS]

275. With all forms of auto racing, it's not driving the car that is the sport.

It's being able to drive the car faster than any of the other participants and still being able to keep it under control so that you don't get killed that's the sport.

[Yavin4]

165. A Sizeable Portion of the Population of Europe Also Believed in Authorian Conservativism

Two world wars on their continent and the brutal authoritarian governments of the Soviet bloc changed their perspective.

That's the biggest reason why they have so much social welfare. They believe that a population that is cared for is a peaceful population.

Aside from the war in the Balkans, Europe has had one of the longest stretches of peace maybe in its history.

[klook]

166. Perceptive insights into the nature of the right-wing True Believer

There are some "conservatives" who just basically don't want to pay taxes but aren't really mean (just oblivious). But you're talking about a different type -- the zealous right-winger.

The cognitive dissonance these people have is truly puzzling. Just as they fancy themselves rugged individualists with a disdain for authority (while worshipping authoritarian overlords), most of them are unbelievably lazy, while endlessly patting themselves on the back for their superior work ethic. For example, when * was re-elected in 2004, there was a right-wing jerk where I work who was gloating all over the place. This guy was the laziest co-"worker" I've ever known, always shirking and avoiding tasks at every opportunity, and making sure somebody else had to do all the work. In a different job, I unfortunately shared an office with a RW idiot who listened to Rush Limbaugh every day on the radio. This went on for a few weeks until he was finally let go because he did nothing work-related all day long.

Many of them I've known are adept at sucking up to the right people in authority to get themselves appointed to management positions, where they can be even lazier -- plus have the added benefit of having subordinates to abuse...for example, the RW boss I had one time who'd get drunk every day at lunch and call staff members into his office one by one to issue slurred ultimatums and chew people out over things they hadn't done, things they had no idea they were supposed to be doing, because this moron couldn't manage anything. He was also a slum lord, imagine that?

Turns out this guy ended up doing some jail time over embezzlement at a former job. Another self-made man who pulled himself up by his bootstraps! :rofl:

Another thing that's been touched on in this topic: Right-wingers say they hate welfare, but they absolutely LOVE welfare when it means taxpayer money gets transferred into their pocket! For example, the well-known case of the publicly financed land grab that paved the way for the construction of the Texas Rangers' stadium in Arlington, TX, when Shrub was president of the franchise. This and other examples of the phenomenon are well documented in David Cay Johnston's excellent book Free Lunch: How the Wealthiest Americans Enrich Themselves at Government Expense (and Stick You with the Bill).

Thanks for this topic, Sarah -- interesting reading. It's important for us to understand who we're dealing with on the Other Side.

[janet118]

181. This group also attracts very, very non-scientific thinkers . . .

I could call them stupid or incurious, but that doesn't quite cover it. Without a right-wing infrastructure of (tax-free, tax-deductible) "think tanks" to back up their mythology with "facts" and hire the smart ideologues to go on the tv, they would not be able to feign intelligence by rote repetition of false research studies and bogus talking points.

[klook]

231. That is true - ready-made talking points masquerading as observations. (n/t)

[GoneOffShore]

274. Our side seems to have a proportion of non-scientific "thinkers" as well.

As evidenced by the amount of woo that is often found here on DU.

[treestar]

168. Yes, that is exactly what they are like

Whether it be the poor, the Soviets, the Muslims, the libruls, there has to be someone they can feel superior to.

[snappyturtle]

179. K&R and bookmarked......excellent post. I'm happy that you recognize

your situation and better still that you won't become a victim of it.

I became a victim. I tried co-existing for the sake of my 95 yr. old mother (RW to the nth degree). I could write a book complete with an evil twin (RW)and an abundance of their hatred. I contend that RWingers are lazy. It's easy for them to rally behind the loudest RW radio hosts and politicians and religious leader.....they don't have to think. They cannot be cured because a cure would mean thinking and sharing and showing compassion. It's much easier and better for them to continue to exist in their manure fed beliefs. They both live off the government BIG time and at the same time confess their hatred for it (Obama)or their pick de ju Democrat. Mind boggling.

[dotymed]

180. Yes Sarah, and you are being kind.

However, another thing I have noticed by reading the polls in the last 1-2 years, is that the majority of responders want, pretty much what we want. End the tax-cuts for the wealthy, leave social programs intact, raise the standard of living for average Americans, equal treatment under the law, no matter what your income level, etc..

However, the argument is still being framed as us against them. That is what the establishment, including the MSM wants. I think that the political rhetoric in America has gone so far to the right, that many who identified with the old right, now find themselves not being represented by their politicians, just like we on the left feel.

A lot of people who identified themselves as RW a few years ago, feel abandoned by their party. The zealots of the tea-party have wielded so much influence on the "R" party that it is closer to a corptocracy than a Democracy.

While the RW of old, the working and investor class majority, no longer believe that their interests are being represented either. They see that minority tea-partiers, funded by the elite, are being appeased, to the detriment of many hard working members of the "R" party.

Obama is not compromising to the demands of the average republican, he is going along with the wishes of the wealthy, who wrap themselves in a flag and pretend to be conservative family values representatives.

I believe the polls when they say that the majority of Americans (not "R' or "D") want the wealthy tax cuts recalled, they want universal health care and regulations placed on financial institutions so they are not stolen from at every juncture.

Especially those who have taken the time to watch documentaries like "Capitalism, A Love story" and "Inside Job" are realizing that people calling themselves "family value republicans", snort coke, rent prostitutes, receive obscene pay and outsource American jobs.

They are waking up to the fact that "their party" has no use for them if they are not wealthy.

Hopefully, "The Great Awakening" will come soon and people will no longer identify with their party because of past accomplishments. Instead they will choose politicians who they believe will represent their beliefs.

Many of those are the same important beliefs that Progressives have. Of course the issues that "they" have used as wedges to divide Americans will still exist. Hopefully, those issues will be put aside in order to retake our

government "for and by the people." It has become obvious to almost everyone that we are currently a government for and by the corporations, which is not in the best interest of either "party" of people.

The old saying: "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" may come in to play as the wealth keeps being disproportionately siphoned off by the top 10% of Americans. A temporary truce in which neither "party" compromises it's core values could have a huge impact on the status quo.

Hopefully, some "true, average Americans" despite party affiliations can accomplish such a truce long enough to fend off the thieves. IMO, that is the true "spirit of compromise."

[DirtyDawg]

183. You have just described...

...why Southern, white, red-necks hate blacks so much. They need somebody to look down on. It's also the reason they, along with their associates across the Nation, consistently vote against their own self interests and put Republicans in power. Be it Muslims, blacks, hispanics, homosexuals, Liberals, you name it, they believe that they're inherently better.

Of course it's not the only motivation the Party uses...if you think about it, GOP could stand for 'greed', 'obstruction' and 'prejudice'...the greed and prejudice goes without saying, the obstruction is the strategy they use in Washington and across the country to keep anything positive from getting done while a Democrat is in office. Like Andrew Shepherd (The American President) said...all they want is to make people afraid of something or someone and then tell you who's to blame for it - other than themselves of course.

[ZombieHorde]

185. Interesting observation, but Libertarians and Republicans differ on most social issues.

War on drugs, abortion, and gay marriage being the major social issues in the US today.

[Jim_Shorts]

186. Very interesting subject, Sarah

I have a theory that right wing brains are wired completely different than liberal brains, not unlike the difference men and women. A lot of good posts on here describing character traits and I agree with the idea that at their core right wingers are mean people. It also explains why we keep losing so many battles in congress, we just can't stoop to their level.

My ex father-in-law (a big rightie) was doing a job repossessing cars and relayed a story (with great delight) how he went into a shop and pronounced to everyone how he was taking an elderly vietnamese mans car. The man pleaded with him not to take his car because his wife was sick and didn't want to lose his job if he couldn't get to work. He just laughed at him, walked out and took the car. What was disturbing to me was how he smiled from ear to ear when telling the story.

Have seen your other posts on this subject and it's too bad I didn't live in your state Sarah, I would get you out of that love-hate relationship. :)

[colsohlibgal]

187. I Hear You

I just don't have patience anymore for right wing men. Once I find out I just can't help going after them...and often I'm surprised because they at first come on as having a full brain.

Libertarians just seem bi polar or something...I know Thom Hartmann always said they are just republicans who want to smoke dope but....they are often right about our war machine mentality and the evil of the Fed, which is why you see strange bedfellows like Rand Paul and Bernie Sanders.

As for dating I screen for lefties.

[on point]

188. Another very important mind set is delusional, non logical thinking

They do not care for facts, logic or anything that make sense if it clashes with the emotional and psychological attachment to their world view. This leads to delusional thinking as their world view strays ever farther from the reality they live in. This brings up the force fascism instinct as they must crush alternative views that threaten their delusions.

[paulkienitz]

190. not all, by any means, but it's pretty common

I do know some authentic libertarians who are not infected with this punitive authoritarian streak, and some people who don't believe in global warming or public education who seem to be genuinely gentle souls...

[kestrel91316]

193. You nailed it. Authoritarians to the very core of their being.

[NewJeffCT]

194. Right Wingers feel they have been victimized & stabbed in the back

that is their mentality.

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2006/06/0081080

[BNJMN]

195. I think many are apolitical and just see the RW as 'stronger' and more likely to win, so they butter

their bread that side.

I know a few disillusioned Boomer aged ex-Democrats that are just in it because they think they will somehow benefit from being on the winning side. Willfully forgetting that the RW will jettison their own (lowest earning) layers ...one by one...to benefit the richest 1%.

By definition, most presently voting RW will not make the cut.

Also, and this has probably been mentioned above:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_authoritarianism

And:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_tent#The_effects_of_a_move_towards_.27big_tent.27_politics

People who can't stand ambiguity (in these 'Diversity Fatigued' times) are destined for the RW.

[Mimosa]

197. Heck YES! Sarah, you have nailed it. Well put.

Sarah Ibarruri said "I think right wingers are astounded by, and almost WORSHIP, authoritarian types of individuals. The meaner the better. They see them as heroes."

I've seldom read a description which tracks so well with my frequent observations.

Remember Nazis and Italian fascists? They worshiped patriarchal authority figures. They didn't care in what direction they were being lead by ignorant types, including Mussolini, they had a deep desire to be lead.

Today's Tea Party fascists are similar.

[trekbiker]

200. having worked as an engineer for nearly 30 years

I've known a great many conservative types. Many I used to consider friends. I used to find their conservative views amusing and did not take my arguements and debates with them very seriously. Not any more. Over the last 10 years I've become more and more disgusted with them and I have no respect for thier right wing opinions.

Things I have noticed about right wingers (and I dont think the word "conservative" should even be applied to them)

- they lack empathy
- they lack creativity
- they can laugh but are rarely funny themselves, this goes back to a lack of creativity I think
- they always need an enemy or someone/something to blame
- they are rigid and idealogical and have no problem selectively weeding out inconvenient facts
- they are afflicted with cognitive dissonance so any rational arguement with them is nearly impossible
- they love authoritarian leaders
- they love the fetus but could'nt care less about anyone once born

ever notice that very few scientists, artists or creative types are right wingers?

ever notice that many politicians and corporate managers are right wingers?

I really think the right wing mind suffers from some level of sociopathy

[B Calm]

239. Good post

[jwirr]

201. I have had the exact same experience. Basically insecure personality. nt

[Populist_Prole]

202. Fantastic thread. Welcome to my world

this thread has so many replies so far and so that what I was going to say has already been said here. Where I used to chafe at RW-er friends and family, I now cannot, literally, stand to be around them. I fear I'm going to haul off and kick their heads off...and while I'm in good shape, I'm not like that.

This is what those people do to me.

[AllyCat]

205. I think this is actually a personality disorder. But this sounds about right to me.

[Skidmore]

208. Which is why we should work to make an enemy of the teabagger

ideas and not keep painting a huge target on ourselves. Why can we say to them "you are right, there are huge problems in this nation and the idea that that you can be expected to pay the bill with no income is ridiculous."

[alp227]

209. BINGO! High on emotion, little on substance.

They get upset at desecrating the US flag but attack Muslims who get upset at depictions of the prophet Muhammad. US flag = RAH RAH RAH! Poor people, poverty = YOU'RE A LAZY BUM.

They love to support libertarianism because of its appeals to "individual liberty" but never consider the real-world implications.

[BNJMN]

218. It *is* a personality disorder. Link:

Right-wing authoritarianism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_authoritarianism

[louis-t]

219. You've covered a great deal of the issues RWers have.

There are more things (the paranoia, gullibility, lack of common sense, believing only what repugs tell them even when confronted with overwhelming evidence to the contrary).

[felix_numinous]

220. If you do not learn to completely accept yourself,

and in fact learn self loathing, it becomes your social blueprint that gets projected onto all your personal relationships and then onto society. We are all mirrors for each other, every social interaction is an opportunity to either act out our inner unresolved issues or a chance to learn from and rise above our assumptions and associations.

The hatred that is being acted out in the world right now has roots inside each person and how they are taught to relate to their own doubts and fears. We all have choices, and when we are taught to hate and fear others, we become blind to these other choices or ways of responding.

Some of the most challenging relationships are the ones that involve unmitigated rage and hate, abuse and violence--these people have rejected HUGE parts of themselves, because their wild and natural spirits were broken at a young age.

People I know that are the most hateful seem to have rejected their natural, authentic true, playful and creative selves--and they act it out by hating people who are the most creative, original and playful....it is because they were never allowed to BE free themselves. It is a vicious cycle, because then they pass on their repressiveness to their kids...

This capitalistic corporate society has enabled the most unhealthy social attitudes to dominate--conformity to the most superficial and impulsive behaviors, while discouraging any kind of self examination--the corporate paradigm ridicules true originality and uniqueness, unless they can profit off of it!

If there is any country that needs to LOOK IN THE MIRROR, it is the US. Interesting that the US is literally being run by a rogue element whose power depends upon the denial of it's existence. To deny your own shadow is to be controlled by it, and this has definitely happened to America. This began by the conditioning of individuals to accept a radical blindness to our own nature (and to the Earth!!), by obstructing any and all forms of social reform or responsibility for criminal behavior.

Many ancient cultures have social practices that include a reverence for travelers and strangers from foreign lands. They treat travelers the best since they know that they will learn the most from them. I often wonder if there was a movement that involved creating a social climate that allowed people to heal their rejected selves and fostered self love, perhaps many people would learn new ways of relating. We badly are in need of a renaissance of art, poetry, playfulness--because creativity and love opens us up to each other. I think it is the only way.

For now I am encouraged by the many enlightened and loving people in the world~~ :)

[hifiguy]

235. Now that was an excellent post.

Thorough, reasoned, thought-provoking and logical. :applause:

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

226. It's been going on for a longer time,,,,,

then you think. It is the basic good against evil. It is the argument of mans' inherent goodness or his inherent ability to always choose evil.

It is the story of Thomas Hobbes against John Locke.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Hobbes

Read "Leviathan" by Hobbes you will understand conservatives.

Study "An Essay Concerning Human Understanding" by Locke. This work may mark the beginning of the modern Western conception of the self.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Locke

Now add to the Hobbes mix, an increasing narcissistic society driven by the corporate powers.

Examples; You need to have this because you deserve it.
New and improved, You only want the best, you deserve it. Be the first on your block to have... whatever. You too can be.... The marketing just goes on and on.
If you are aware of it you will see more and more examples, watch tv commercials sometime. Read print media ads. Be aware, it can be a scary thing.
It is one reason why we are a consumer driven society. That leads to corporate power, that leads to political favors being granted, we have been captured, kidnapped.

Then add to that mix the complete lack of personal responsibility and greed we seemingly need to have to get what we need.
It's not my fault. I deserve this.If not me than who? The American Dream! .............

It all leads to a disregard of ones fellow members of the world.

Until we change our personal attitude toward our fellow man, we will continue to be on the road to complete destruction of our civilization.

[Mimosa]

244. N_E_1_ for Tennis, *pretty please* start a topic about Hobbes and Locke

I'd love to discuss these philosophers and their legacies at length in a dedicated topic. There's a place to accommodate Malthus and Rousseau in such a tipc, too. ;) I have long sensed that Hobbesian ideas influence many modern conservatives although they may be unfamiliar with his ideas.

PM me if you start such a topic. :)

[JDPriestly]

227. Yes. The catch is to avoid becoming like them once you recognize this.

[Arugula Latte]

229. Spot on.

This country always has to have an "enemy." Always. Over the years many have been cast in the roll of The Enemy, including Native Americans, immigrants (Italians, Jews, Irish, etc., and now Mexicans), Communists, and Arabs.

[civilEmpathy]

232. An unpopular, long reply

As the title indicates, I'm going to make a rather long and unpopular reply. I would ask anyone reading this to finish reading my message before passing judgment, and I apologize in advance for any toes that I step on.

This is my first post on DU, and in fact on any forum for a number of years. I wouldn't reply to this if the post and resulting discussion hadn't inspired some strong feelings in me.

I would never have known about DU if it wasn't for a friend of mine posting links to various threads on his facebook profile, which out of curiosity I often followed. Many of the posts I disagreed with, some made good points, but the majority of them seemed to be filled with a certain level of vitriol, and in my observation, hatred towards Republicans and conservatives.

I was raised by Democratic parents, and for a long time considered myself a Democratic liberal. I've changed that classification of myself in the last few years (I now consider myself to be a somewhat left-leaning independent), but I can understand from personal experience the point of view that Republicans, conservatives, and right-wingers are evil, psychopathic, and mentally ill.

However, I've since come to believe that classifying such a large, heterogeneous group under such polarizing attributes is unfair. Worse, I believe that it is damaging to the quality and effectiveness of political debate and discussion.

The reason that I'm posting such a long reply on this thread is that I've seen remarks here that I'm having a difficult time classifying as anything but bigoted and vitriolic. While many threads I've seen have degraded conservatives, this particular one seems to have that quality as a central topic.

I am not saying that dissent against conservatives is uncalled for; I myself have many disagreements with that particular point of view. But to label it is a mental disease, to decide that an entire branch of philosophy represents sick minds and psychopathic tendencies does nothing but decrease the civility and rationality of the state of political debate.

If anyone bothers to respond, I'm confident that my motivation will be attacked. I'll admit that I was at first angry upon reading through this thread, but after calming down I decided that if even one person would be willing to give their political opponent a second look, to attempt to understand a challenging set of viewpoints that they may not agree with but may respect, then I might make a miniscule but positive impact on the state of American politics.

I apologize for the long post, and I apologize again for any of my words which may be taken as insults. If you read this post and make a thoughtful comment, thank you in advance.

[hifiguy]

238. There is a huge difference between conservatives of the past

and those who call themselves conservatives today. Once upon a time the label of "conservative" did not equate to a brutal, oppressive and reactionary set of beliefs/worldview. Actual conservatives, Andrew Sullivan being the first one that comes to my mind, are not regressive and borderline totalitarian. I wish I could think of more examples but I am drawing a blank. Sullivan and his ilk may be cautious about innovations be they economic or social, but they are willing to listen and evaluate ideas on their own merits. Even 20-30 years ago there were far more "true" conservatives represented in politics than there are now. The know-nothing right wing was held in check for years by the likes of William F. Buckley and the genteel old-school East Coast WASPs who dominated the party.

All that began to change in the late 1970s, and it led to the election of Raygun. The "conservatism" that arose during that era came from well-funded ultra-right "think" tanks and the crazier elements of fundamentalist Xtianity. These elements of the right were and are hostile to virtually everything good in this country's political history. They are belligerent, militarist, racist, sexist, homophobic, and rabidly pro-corporate capitalist in the Ayn Randian sense of the term. Edmund Burke and Michael Oakeshott would be appalled by such people taking over the once respectable name of "conservatism." These people are not "conservatives" they are reactionary radicals. They have now taken over virtually the entire Repuke party.

This hard, new neo-fascist (and there is no other word that properly describes them) right created a gigantic propaganda machine, funded by the Scaifes, the Coors family and the Koch family, that has served no purpose other than to spew provably false propanganda and talking points at top volume 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. The addition of right wing hate radio and Murdoch's Faux News has only made these efforts easier to realize. Filling the media with falsehoods is a proven method of subverting democracy. It has been done before and the examples need not be repeated here.

There really is such a thing as the authoritarian personality, and it is a borderline personality disorder. Authoritarians are motivated by a sense of inadquacy and a paranoid fear of change or loss of their (perceived) special status in society. Thus the unending hostility of (mostly) white males (of which I am one) to non-whites, women, GLBT folks, those more educated than themselves and any other identifiable group that is not theirs. Low level paranoia about loss of status, stoked constantly in people with limited hard reasoning abilities by the propaganda machine, eventually turns into a truly fearful and paranoid worldview in which the supposedly threatening "other" must be shouted down, oppressed, and in extreme cases, eliminated. And there is plenty of eliminationist rhetoric coming from the extreme right.

Authoritarianism, and its even crazier brother fascism, are mental disorders when acted out in the political realm of society. And if the 20th century showed us nothing else, it showed how dangerous that philosophy can be when revved up to a fever pitch. At their least destructive they are brutally oppressive philosophies rooted in fear, where simply being poor or different is nearly criminal. At their worst they are genocidal and maniacal. That the neo-fascists in the US have combined this poisonous political philosophy with the crudest, most retrograde forms of religion makes them doubly dangerous, because primitive, exclusionist Xtianity hates reason above all other things. Their insistence on the destruction (metaphoric for now, though there are plenty of freaks who would love to see it done literally) of everyone "not them" and the stamping out of dissent, free-thinking and non-conformity should be frightening to any thinking person.

This is not something to be taken lightly.

[civilEmpathy]

242. I think you may be unfairly categorizing

a larger group by the extremes of a smaller subset. I won't deny that there are conservatives* who are "belligerent, militarist, racist, sexist, homophobic," etc. However, this does not imply that EVERY conservative shares these qualities, just as not all liberals should be categorized as communists that believe all currency, religion, and individuality should be done away with, even though there are some that believe this.

According to a fairly recent Gallup poll (http://www.gallup.com/poll/148745/Political-Ideology-Stable-Conservatives-Leading.aspx)**, approximately 41% of Americans consider themselves conservative. To claim that this entire group is suffering from a mental disorder or so thoroughly inundated with propaganda as to be incapable of thinking for themselves seems to me to be pessimistic to the point of error.

One comment in this thread argued that conservatives see things in only black and white, which makes it difficult for them to experience empathy and sympathy for those who do not share their beliefs. When you label every conservative according to rather extreme ideals, you are committing this same classification error.

Both left and right are capable of capable of producing radicals, and both left and right are capable of performing atrocious acts at their far extremes. But political views is a large, broad, spectrum with many axes. Categorization and demonization of all conservatives, in my opinion, serves to do nothing but polarize opinions and muddy the waters of civil debate.

*I have been using "conservative" interchangeably with "right-wingers," the main group being described in this thread. If I have done this in error, I apologize and would welcome terminology corrections.
**Once again, I am very new to DU, and if people object to the use of Gallup I will attempt to find a better source of statistics. I was simply trying to get an idea of the relative number of self-claimed conservatives in the country.

[DFW]

256. Don't confuse "conservative" with "a conservative"

These days, it's a subtle difference, but a huge one. Remember Kennedy's "Ich bin ein Berliner" speech?
In German, if you want to say "I am a Berliner," you say "Ich bin Berliner." If you say "Ich bin ein
Berliner," you have just said, "I am a jelly-filled donut." (no idea of the fate of JFK's translator
after he gave that speech) It's a tiny difference, but it completely changes what you are trying to say.

I, for one, am conservative. I have worked for the same outfit that recruited me at age 23 (I'm 59 now),
have been with the same woman for the last 37 years, do no drugs (not even nicotine or alcohol), am
scared of debts and have none, have two normal, well-adjusted children, don't like financial risks with
what savings I have managed to accumulate, drive my cars until they die, blah blah blah. You, know, just
conservative.

However, I will never ever be "a conservative." I detest the arrogance, lies, cheating, fear, hate, and
"us-against-them" attitude of the Bible-toting, flag-waving, FOX-believing "me-first" mob that so proudly
hijacks the term "conservative" these days. "Republican" is NOT synonymous with "conservative" any more
than "liberal" is synonymous with "Democrat." Those are fallacies created and perpetuated by carefully
programmed media that is bought and paid for by interests that want nothing else than to encourage large
portions of our population to vote against, essentially, themselves.

[Mimosa]

243. Welcome, CivilEmpathy

I think I understand where you're coming from. Please try get to know Democratic Underground as a community before getting your back up on a few comments on this topic. Sarah's OP is part of a continuing conversation. There is a back story to the OP with which there is no reason you'd be familiar.

I'd like to address your thoughts at length. You've expressed some ideas worth discussing on their own. Don't be shy about putting them together in a topic of your own. I'd really like to talk with you. There was a period when I was more in sympathy with the conservative philosophy. I've read and undestood Erik Von Kuehnelt Leddihn, Hayek, Jacques Barzun, David Horowitz's books including Radical Son, and the better conservative thinkers. I listened to Rush Limbaugh for 10 years. That doesn't mean I was a follower, but I was willing to learn, to approach conservatism with an open mind. When I joined Democratic Underground back in 2002 (My membership started after I lurked a while) this was a far more radical board. Despite changes -I'd say we've shifted rightward, as has the Democratic party- DU remains a board where people bring a LOT of original information and ideas to the table. And despite the size of DU, there are opportunities to make friends. :)

CivilEmpathy, hang on. Read a bit more. PM people when you've enough posts to be able to do it. And start a topic about the issues you mentioned. :D

[civilEmpathy]

245. Thank you, Mimosa

I appreciate your welcome, and apologize for making uninformed comments. My experience with DU has been a few threads I was linked to by a friend, from which I received an overall negative impression. However, it's quite unfair (and in lieu of my comments, admittedly hypocritical) for me to judge DU off of them, and I apologize for that.

I may or may not get too active in DU- as I mentioned, I haven't posted in forums for several years and I'm not sure how much I would get out of it or put in to it. That being said, I'll likely continue to stalk the threads, and if I'm feeling particularly talkative, I might make a post. No promises.

Thank you again for your welcome, and for giving me some faith in the DU community.

[Crunchy Frog]

253. I kind of get where you're coming from, but

agree with others who have replied to your post.

I think that it's wrong to use the terms "conservative" and "right winger" interchangeably, because I think they are very different phenomena.

I actually don't have a problem with conservatives as such. I don't have a problem with people who simply have differing political beliefs and can engage in calm and rational discourse and exchange of opinions, and not think you're the spawn of Satan if your political beliefs differ from theirs.

But this is where I have the problem. In so much of current right wing discourse, I AM seen as the spawn of Satan for my political beliefs. How do I have a rational discussion with someone who thinks my President is a covert Muslim who was really born in Kenya, is a communist, and is planning on setting up "death panels" as part of his health care reform? Can you see where the problem is here?

I actually respect and admire some of the old time conservatives like Eisenhower and Barry Goldwater. I even think Nixon wasn't half bad as a president (if he hadn't of been a crook, which is nothing to do with political philosophy).

It's the contemporary right wing movement "conservatives", (and I hesitate to even use the term "conservative" to describe them) that I think fit into this authoritarian phenomenon that the OP is describing.

The "Tea Party movement" is not a spontaneous upwelling of a previously unheard from political minority. It has been highly orchestrated by some of the biggest money and most powerful individuals in the country who have been running a nonstop propaganda campaign of pure hatred, and have been doing so for years, presumably for the purpose of creating conditions in this country that they regard as corporate friendly.

This is not normal political discourse. Most of these people are simply parroting lines from Rush Limbaugh or Glen Beck, or from whatever they've heard on Fox News. I'm open to real people discussing real points of view that they've actually thought through for themselves. I'm not open to parroted lines from RW radio and Fox News.

I think that the real conservatives are probably just as disgusted by the current right wing phenomenon as I am, and some of them, (mentioned elsewhere in the thread) such as Andrew Sullivan and John Dean are openly expressing that disgust.

One thing that I have noticed about the direction of current RW ideological trends is that it seems largely shaped by the political, economic, and moral philosophy of Ayn Rand. I do think that Ayn Rand's philosophy is sociopathic to the core.

And to be perfectly frank, I don't think too much of most people on the extreme left either. It's just that those on the extreme left are not in any way participating in current political discourse in this country. They certainly don't have a whole batch of freshman congresspeople at their beck and call, and don't have their own radio talk shows that dominate the airways or their own version of Fox News. They truly are on the fringe, even at places like DU.

I don't think you have anything to apologize for with your post. It was well thought out and reasonably presented. I hope you will take my critique in the same way.

[GoCubsGo]

237. Spot on, except for one thing you left out.

And, that is WHY they are militaristic, authoritarian, punitive, abhor weakness... It's because they are afraid of EVERYTHING that us different from their own narrow, little worlds. Nothing but goddamn bullies. Every bit of nasty behavior you see is a cover for the fact that they are a bunch of the biggest cowards this planet has ever seen.

[quaker bill]

241. The need for an enemy is huge

and the Republican party is always willing to provide.

These folks are generally "type 2" on the scale of individuation. They love rules, simple rules, and clear authority. They have a clear sense of "right" and "wrong" in terms that are black and white. Shades of gray or colors are seen as weakness or "lack of strong convictions", instead of a clear grip on reality where most things are in fact some tone of gray.

It is a form of arrested development from which only some ever recover.

[Mosaic]

255. Democrats on the other hand

Like to work together and reach a consensus. We like society, take pride in things like NASA, and Social Security, Medicare, and other things that take care of the common good. We don't want a strong leader, we want a wise, fair, and intelligent leader. We want a real man as leader, not these phony Georege "AWOL" Dubya type cowards.

[Fla Dem]

257. Yes, and they wrap their arms around religion

They use their strong conviction (real or fake)of religious ideals to convince themselves and the world in general that they are compassionate and caring. When in reality they are selfish, judgmental and their real beliefs are rooted in individualism.

[notsoevil]

265. Lurker Alert

I know this will probably get tombstoned, but look:

I'm conservative, and I wasn't always that way. I grew up rather left-wing. I was an idealist, and my experiences changed me. Life was, in many ways, rather cruel to me, and over time, I adjusted my belief system to accommodate what I learned.

Contrary to what you may believe, and despite how you interpret many actions, not everything is out of malice or selfishness. Imagine two people falling off of a cliff...you catch them both as they fall, but you only have the strength to save one. The best decision, at least to me, is to save one. It is not the ideal outcome. No matter who I choose, the other will suffer. Don't think that for many of us, this doesn't weigh heavily.

For example, I do not hate the poor. I empathize. I pity them. I do what I can to help. I volunteer. I give. But, if I do believe that the greater good and advancement of society is best served by an economic system harnessing our worst values, one in which people can become poor...then it's inevitable that some must be deprived in some way.

One of the more influential texts in my life is the short story titled "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas". If you aren't familiar, it's about a utopian world where all are happy on the precondition that one child must suffer unimaginably in order for this to be possible. Some choose to leave that society. I would too. The difference between that story and our world is that we aren't free to leave society. We can't. I'm one man, and in many ways very different from others, but like all people, I'm still an animal driven by the most basic desires. I can control myself, mostly, but many people cannot. We're all imprisoned by one another through our interdependence, and it is our flaw of selfishness that causes the majority of suffering in the world.

I come here everyday to read, you know. I listen to people, including you. I respect many liberals because their love of others is so strong. Consequently, I imagine if I ever were to marry, she will probably be very left-wing. Most liberals believe, whether or not it's true, that you can save both the people from falling off the cliff. Maybe you can. But, my life experiences teach me that attempting to save both often results in none being spared. I could be wrong. Every day, I hope I am.

But, because of that, don't think I'm a bad person. The truly cruel lurk in all spectrums of politics, and often, it is because they lack the self-control and heart to enforce in their actions what they understand as rational in their minds. The decisions I make may seem cold, emotionless, evil, and stupid. You are wrong, however, if you think that's what I want. No one is always right, and the same goes for me, but, I always try to do what is right. I would never want people to suffer unnecessarily. I love people as deeply and fully as any of you. Be angry with me, be frustrated with me, but don't hate me. I don't hate you.

For the most part, and if it means anything, a lot of us feel that, despite our differences, you all are trying to do the right thing and you are going about it the best way you know how.

Lastly, as far as your boyfriend goes OP (and clearly, the relationship is of significance to you): obviously there was some element that drew you to him, and really, the question is whether or not, at heart, he makes you happy, and that you want the same for him.

Thank you for your time. I'll be lurking.

[DirkGently]

270. Welcome, notso. We're way outside of that frame of reference here, though.

First, I'd suggest no here has suggested any basically conservative point of view is evil and vile and hateful. But there is an evil, vile, hateful conservative point of view. And it's not a rarity. It's not an exception. It's becoming basic Republican / conservative American ideology.

I don't think most liberals would have a problem grasping that there's some level of "help" we can't afford. A number and size of lifelines which, thrown out all together, could sink the ship.

But that's not what our current discussion is about. It seems to be what a few people have distorted it into, but it isn't. There is no current danger that too many resources are being directed downward.

Most of our shared resources go not to the neediest, but to the GREEDIEST. Most of the shouting about people pulling their own weight comes from people riding the escalator.

Moreover, the whole "who has more cookies" argument misses the point. We ARE all in this together, and the point ought to be to make it WORK as best it can for everyone -- that's what "progressive" means to me, anyway.

What passes for conservativism in America these days appears to be a series disproven economic, social, and ideological arguments, held together primarily by fear and an increasing willingness to treat all of reality like fundamentalist religion -- that is, the more someone WANTS something to be true, the more entitled they are to claim it is true, regardless of facts to the contrary.

And all of it geared to making things work for an increasingly smaller number of people. Which ultimately of course, will not work at all.


Edited for: various.

[dionysus]

268. pretty much. people who are impressed by bullies, assholery, and seeing people suffer.

[FlaGranny]

277. My personal observation.

My family, including aunts and uncles, have always been of the Democratic/liberal persuasion. The beginnings of change for one portion of the family began back in the 1950's when they "got religion." These were people who adored FDR. The deeper they got into their born-again religion, the more conservative they became and the more prejudiced. They began to believe that they were oppressed, they started believing what they were told by their authority figures. They started parroting biblical passages that they believed made their point. I could have ignored the religious stuff, but it turned political. I am still close to a cousin from this branch of the family. I occasionally warn her not to "listen" to everything she hears a preacher (or Glenn Beck) say. I was horrified when she told me she liked Glenn Beck. I watched religion turn part of my family from open-minded people into people who no longer think for themselves. Religion and political extremism are unholy bed partners and I know enough about that to be frightened.

Edit: If you have any people like this in your family, you might be familiar with their sideways pitying glances toward you, because they believe that even though you are a kind and gentle soul you are going straight to hell when you die.