You don't have to spank a child in order for them to be a good person...

[cynatnite]

We've raised three great children with that philosophy. We still have a 12 year old son here at home. He is has honest and as caring as they come.

Yes, I was spanked as a kid. No, it didn't hurt me and I turned out okay. That doesn't mean I wouldn't have turned out as I have had I not been spanked.

I know I'm opening up a hornets nest with this thread, but I don't like hearing someone who is pro-spanking. It bothers me a lot.

[fishwax]

1. k/r

:kick:

[pnwmom]

2. Logical consequences are much more effective, with the only downside being

that they require more thought and effort and self-discipline on the parents' part.

Striking out requires almost no effort at all.

[seabeyond]

12. exactly. hitting instills fear to get child to behave. logical conseq (i like) takes time,

patience and effort but well worth it teaching the child to want to make the good choices. those last. the fear doesn't.

[muffin1]

3. K&R

My parents called it 'spanking', but it was 'beating'. NOT okay. I'm 50 years old, and I still feel the effects.

[madamesilverspurs]

4. Yeah, I still remember

being told, "This will hurt me more than it hurts you." Didn't believe it then, sure as hell don't believe it now. I don't remember the infraction I was whacked for, but I do remember the whacking and the subsequent disappearance of any ability to trust those bigger than me, especially if they held any authority. Adult temper tantrums are NOT discipline.


-

[nenagh]

43. I have never heard that phrase...'Adult Temper Tantrums'

Great phrase... thanks.

[Richardo]

5. delete

.

[Raine]

6. My parents NEVER spanked me or my brother

and we never got in any real trouble. I couldn't/wouldn't hurt my parents by doing really bad things. My mother had been physically and verbally abused by her mother and was determined she would NEVER do that with us. I'm so thankful for my parents.

[Luminous Animal]

8. My parent's spanked and when I grew up I decided that it was an abusive thing to do...

so, I didn't. And it has worked out well for us all.

[SoutherDem]

7. My dad spanked, my Mom didn't

My father died when I was eleven. Did I love him? Yes. Did it crush me when he died? Yes. But, today I will more quickly remember the spankings (usually with a belt) than I do the good times we had. Three years ago when facing major anxiety attacks I started seeing a psychologist. She within two visits started focusing on my father's and my relationship. I felt she was looking in the wrong direction, I thought it was the new VP at work. After I came to grips with issues with my father, without anything changing at work my anxiety attacks got better then all but went away (today I may have one or two per year). My mother who didn't ever hit me could control me with a few simple words, usually something like "I am disappointed in you", my mother is still alive and I have to really work hard to think of a bad time with my mother, yet the good time can fill a book.
Having no children I am often corrected for having an opinion on the subject, basically I am told until you have one of the little terrors of your own keep your mouth shut. But I can't but believe if you start young enough and are consistent spanking is not needed.

[ejpoeta]

29. you are right. my sister does not have kids.... but she is a lawyer and a child advocate.

she and i had a discussion once about spanking kids. we grew up in a situation which honestly i don't remember much of. but my dad was verbally abusive and she says hit her. i don't remember that, but at the end before i left at 16, he tried knocking me down the stairs and hit me a few times. but anyway, she said people hit their kids out of anger. and if you hit an adult, you'd go to jail. i think about that... if i didn't like my neighbor's behavior and i tried to correct it by smacking him, what would happen? I would be sitting in a jail cell. Hitting a child is like picking on someone who can't fight back. I look at my kids and can't imagine hurting them.

My oldest used to have meltdowns. She hasn't had any in a while now (thank god) but I would have to physically restrain her. When she was small enough, I would pick her up and carry her out of stores. She would be hitting me and pulling my hair, knocking my glasses off my face. I mean, in some respects, you have to fight that knee jerk reaction your body has to react to that attack on you. I would let her hit me all the way to the car and put her in it and shut the door and stand on the outside while she would rage and scream on the inside and breathe deeply. I am sure people were staring at me the whole way! I often thought I looked like a kidnapper or something and no one batted an eyelash or raised a finger!!

I'm sure my sister could tell some stories about the families she's dealt with in her work. And she doesn't have kids. I often say that very thing about people without kids. But it's the ones who say I shouldn't take my kids out in public. Or have something to say with no frame of reference. You actually DO have a frame of reference... Your own childhood is one. It may not be your own kids, but it is something. It is really hard to understand though unless you are standing there in the store with a kid having a full on meltdown while you have a baby sitting in the cart and you have no idea what to do. That happened to me. And I had a lady try to hand me money to give Emily whatever she had wanted to pacify her and I gave the lady the dirtiest look and told her to get the hell out of here. I do not reward bad behavior. Period! Ever! No exceptions! I just had to figure out how to get Emily out of there while I had a baby sitting in the cart.

[Texasgal]

9. I'm pro-parenting

If you spank or not it's your business not mine.

If you are abusing that's another issue. Swat on the butt should be your parenting choice.

[seabeyond]

10. spanked, even with a belt. and fine with it. worked for me. i didnt like and made sure

i didnt do wrong, or get caught very often.

dont hit, spank, or use belt on boys and they have done a fine job with choices in life and who they are.

my mom told me she wished she could have raised us differently. more like what i was doing with my boys.

told her

no guilt. different situation. was the time. she was 22 with three, three and under. little money.

big difference to the 90's, in my 30's, financially secure, children with an age spread and only two.

[pnwmom]

13. But you wouldn't do it with your own children -- which says a lot.

[seabeyond]

20. i saw with two brothers how ineffective of a parenting tool it was. not to mention

i am a pacifist and two boys bucked up with words or time outs.

[Pithlet]

27. I think I've told this story here before

It's one I'll never forget as long as I live, and I think about it whenever the subject of effectiveness comes up. I was about six years old or so, and we lived in an apartment complex. I was outside playing in front of the building and this kid was picking on me. His father comes outside and takes his belt off and just starts whaling away at him right in front of me. He'd stop and say "tell her you're sorry!" "I'm not sorry!" He'd start right in on him again, then stop and, "Tell her you're sorry!" "I'm NOT sorry!" This must have gone on several times but it seemed like forever, and I just stood there, frozen. But yeah, clearly, this wasn't an effective tool for this poor kid, either.

[seabeyond]

37. wow. that would traumatize me, not to mention the kid being walloped on.

wow. lol

i was such a sensitive child. i would haev been screaming and crying.

[Pithlet]

39. It just may be a part of why I'm anti-spanking.

Who knows? I can still see his little red face, defiantly determined not to say sorry. It really was horrifying. It's etched in my memory forever.

[seabeyond]

42. you know why i think it doesnt bother me. i knew, always, that my parents did it as punishment,

always. it wasnt out of anger. whenever we had done something for a whippin, it was not extreme, it was two or three hits on the butt. they were not angry. and that "gonna hurt us more than you" was really true. they felt bad afterward. i felt done with the wrong. two/three swats and all forgiven and i could go on. the pain was gone secs after the swat.

i always and still do have unconditional love. always had support. could always trust my parents to want the best for me.

so thinking about this, i think the actual type of punishment is not necessarily the abuse.

[Imagevision]

11. I send them to their room early, they disrespect their mom? their ass is grass

[muffin1]

17. Ass is grass?

What does that mean?

[PassingFair]

31. Sounds like something a Stephen King stepfather would say.

:scared:

[muffin1]

34. Yeah, I had a flashback just seeing those words.

I wish people would think before throwing out phrases like that.

[ejpoeta]

14. I remember when my oldest was a toddler. A friend insisted that we needed to spank her.

I didn't want to spank her. I was spanked and didn't want to do it. But she never listened and I did spank her. You know what she did? She turned around and started hitting people. So what she learned was that hitting was an acceptable thing to do. I still struggle with my husband over this.... but I don't do it. I give rewards and I take privileges away and that seems to be the most effective thing. As long as you are consistent that is.

[seabeyond]

21. the most ironic, and i have seen it, is a parent spanking a child saying ... NO HITTING

what? i say.

[ejpoeta]

33. i love that. i think that is the most hilarious thing. i have seen that one myself.

[Zanzoobar]

15. My old man pounded us almost every day

We turned out OK. All eight kids are employed and as happy as the next guy on the bus. I don't recommend whooping on kids. I have issues with it, but as wild as all of us were it may just have prevented a long stint in the graybar hotel. I wonder about it sometimes.

Once again, it's really hard to throw anything into a class and get away without Venn looking at you sideways.

[Iris]

19. Do you think frequent spankings could have made you wilder?

Then again, put 8 kids together, and they're going to be wild, so maybe that was what your dad thought was best.

[Zanzoobar]

32. No clue

The variables are too many. Everything from an armchair perspective is possible.

[mzmolly]

16. Fellow non-spanker

here. :hi:

[Pithlet]

18. I don't think all spanking is abuse. But I do think it's wrong.

I draw the line at belts or objects. That is abuse and if I know that's happening I won't hesitate to report. I don't care who it is. I do think spanking is on its way out as far as mainstream parenting goes. Another generation or two and it will be rare, IMO.

[whatchamacallit]

22. Never took my hand to my kid, never had to

Just lucky I guess...

[abelenkpe]

23. No spanking here

My father used to beat my brothers bare butt frequently. He'd make my sis and I watch. I hated him for it. Still get this angry feeling and wish there was something I could do to defend my brother.

So now we have kids. I would never hit them. Of course they've never given me reason. They're sweeties, so polite and sweet. Maybe I just lucked out. Of course they are only 5 and 7....

[Danger Mouse]

24. I think hitting a kid with a belt or other object is child abuse, plain and simple.

Spanking itself I find to be highly questionable...but if you need to hit them with something like a belt, something is very very wrong. Just my .02.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

41. True.

My dad came after me with a paddle when he was in a drunken stupor once. I ran away. It never happened again.

[Avalux]

25. I agree with you. I didn't spank my three kids.

But I was spanked - I was scared as a kid a lot of the time; if I didn't eat dinner I got a spanking. They spanked kids at school too. Like you said, I guess I turned out OK, but spanking really isn't a deterrent except it makes kids afraid and they may tend to hide things so they won't get in trouble. I did.

[backscatter712]

26. Talk to anyone in the psychological community - they'll cite research & tell you spanking is harmful

And that it's less effective than other parenting methods.

[Philippine expat]

28. Maybe not

but spanking doesn't harm and is not abusive

[muffin1]

30. Bullshit

[Iris]

35. not ever?

[cynatnite]

38. striking a child is no more right than an adult striking another adult....

I can't see how striking a child is a good thing.

[madrchsod]

36. i never spanked any of my kids...

i never thought it was the thing to do. i effectively voiced my displeasure with their actions.

my folks spanked me too,but one grandmother lived with us and the other next door........

[YellowRubberDuckie]

40. I think there is a point where a child out grows it and it just makes them hate their parents.

But when we were 2 and grabbing Grandma's pictures off her shelves, a little smack on the hand taught us not to do that. But when a 16 year old breaks curfew or sneaks out, it just makes the kids hate you and makes you an idiot for not being able to reason with your own kid that this is inappropriate behavior. I have found that if you inconvenience a kid it does WAY more good.
I do not and probably will not have children.
Duckie