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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 09:18 AM
Original message
Seeking Arrangement: College Students Using 'Sugar Daddies' To Pay Off Loan Debt
Source: Huffington Post

NEW YORK -- On a Sunday morning in late May, Taylor left her Harlem apartment and boarded a train for Greenwich, Conn. She planned on spending the day with a man she had met online, but not in person. Taylor, a 22-year-old student at Hunter College, had confided in her roommate about the trip and they agreed to swap text messages during the day to make sure she was safe.

Once in Greenwich, a man who appeared significantly older than his advertised age of 42 greeted Taylor at the train station and then drove her to the largest house she had ever seen. He changed into his swimming trunks, she put on a skimpy bathing suit, and then, by the side of his pool, she rubbed sunscreen into the folds of his sagging back -- bracing herself to endure an afternoon of sex with someone she suspected was actually about 30 years her senior.

Taylor doubted that her client could relate to someone who had grown up black and poor in the South Bronx. While he summered on Martha's Vineyard, she'd likely pass another July and August working retail in Times Square. A love match it wasn't. But then again, this was no ordinary date.

A month prior, faced with about $15,000 in unpaid tuition and overdue bills, Taylor and her roommate typed "tuition," "debt," and "money for school" into Google. A website called SeekingArrangement.com popped up. Intrigued by the promise of what the site billed as a "college tuition sugar daddy," Taylor created a "sugar baby" profile and eventually connected with the man from Greenwich. ("Taylor" is the pseudonym she uses with men she meets online. Neither she nor any of the other women interviewed for this article permitted their real names be used.)

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/29/seeking-arrang...
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. job creators
:thumbsup: :sarcasm:
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Republicon Family Values in action: "Pull yourself up by your own bikini strap"
Edited on Mon Aug-01-11 09:23 AM by SpiralHawk
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. could be one of "our" job creators
It's in NYC, it could be a banker, a big donor to Chris Dodd or Chuck Schumer maybe. Using some of the bailout money or the bonus money that's still rolling in on Wall Street.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
2. This is a Republican wet dream - literally.
That is exactly the kind of thing they live for. Cue Billie Holiday's "Love for Sale".
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. If you think only Republicans do this, you are sadly mistaken.
Democrats with money have no problem making 'arrangements'.

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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. You're absolutely right about that.
I've got a friend who is a member of this site right now, and has dated many sugar babies he's met there, some for extended periods. His view is that, since it isn't indiscriminate sex with multiple partners (he's only dated one at a time, and they've been exclusive arrangements), it's no different than any other situation where you help out a girlfriend financially.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. "help out a girlfriend financially"
:puke: delusional

But I know your story IS accurate.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
32. He's kidding himself - what ever happened to the mantra that if you
sleep with someone, you're sleeping with everyone they've ever slept with?
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
31. I saw a shit load of wrinkled Democrat lawmakers taking a trip
Edited on Mon Aug-01-11 03:09 PM by WCGreen
down mammary lane with girls fifteen, twenty years younger than they were when I was a page at the statehouse...

It's bi-partisan sleaze.
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
5. personal choices in action. other available options declined nt
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blackspade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Ah, the personal choice memo.
Yep, she could always work off that $15,000 at McDonalds and just skip a higher education altogether.
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Yes, she should have chosen not to be stalked by predatory lenders
DU abounds with people eager to condemn those who fail to bootstrap themselves to success or who--god forbid--actually commit the mortal sin of entering into debt without actually having enough cash on hand to pay off the debt in a single lump sum.

Godspeed, noble progressive. Godspeed!
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ehrnst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. Any choice that she has will be considered irresponsible at this point.
Edited on Mon Aug-01-11 10:09 AM by ehrnst
If she doesn't pay off her loans on time, she accumulates interest penalties, and doesn't have it to put in savings or retirement or other bills - and she's a deadbeat.

If she takes a deferral, see above.

If she defaults on her loan - she's a deadbeat, and she makes it harder for others to borrow.

If she takes a low paying job that doesn't provide health insurance, and she racks up medical debt - she's irresponsible.

She could do something blatantly illegal, like sell drugs - and she's irresponsible.

The fact that she has more monetary value for being a sex object than for being an academic is the thing that should disturb us far more than fact that she recognized it as a way to deal with the deck that is stacked against her.
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MrsBrady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #13
33. +1
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
7. Well...well....I got nothing. I read it all.
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socialshockwave Donating Member (637 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
10. Still doesn't help me for college.
I'm a straight white guy...I can't even sell myself into prostitution!

;'(
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zalinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Look for a sugar mama
I'm sure there is an old woman that could use a young man's attention. Cougars are all the rage you know. LOL

zalinda
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socialshockwave Donating Member (637 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. LOL, true.
Plus I'm kidding. Luckily because of my mother's disability(lucky? well, I mean for me going to college) most of my student aid is hopefully going to be in grants.

But I do feel for these young women in this situation. to have to sell yourself to get through college - ugh, terrible. It speaks wonders to the way young people are treated these days.
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zalinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. Believe me, I know.
My son can't find a job, so I'm his 'sugar mama' at this point. I'm on disability too. It is tough out here, and that's why I'm so angry at this President. Obama is not only the President, he is also the head of the dem party. I knew he was going to be bad, but not this bad.

Cutting expenses instead of putting people to work, means that the economy is going to get much worse. I'm doing what I can to help people out, but I've got limited funds.

zalinda

Oh, I knew you were kidding, but some young guy out there may be that desperate.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. Yep. Supply vs. Demand.
Women don't have to pay since there's an abundance of men who'll do it for free to begin with.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. that changes
as one gets older.....the balance shifts. i have a (platonic) male friend who is 63. he has an unlimited supply of female friends his age for sex, but the problem is that he wants the younger women, but they don't want him. c'est la vie.
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Courtesy Flush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. They have male sugar babies too
I think it will become a growth industry. We are, in a modern way, returning to slavery. We face a future of debasing ourselves for the pleasure of the rich.
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. You *could* always rent yourself out as a
... bad example.



"See this here scar on my elbow kiddies? Don't you ever, I mean ever run with scissors!"
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
11. There are a lot of people doing things they don't want to do to pay for college

Some of it legal, some of it not.

:shrug:


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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
18. To each his or her own, I guess.
It's not something I could do, on either end, but I gave up judging what people do to get by, as long as it doesn't harm the people involved or others.

I suspect that many "babies" get more than they expected, though, out of these arrangements, and not all for their own good. Much room for abuse here.

That said, I was good friends with a young woman who put herself through college and grad school this way, way back in the early 1970s. It worked out OK for her, although it hardened her in ways that didn't seem beneficial to me. I lost touch with her when she went elsewhere for her PhD, so I don't know how things ended up.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. "It worked out OK for her..."
...what many of these young women don't realize is that later on...later on, they will DEEPLY regret this. It's not something you can take back or erase. It's kind of like when people go off to wars and the horror of it all doesn't hit them for 20-30 years later. Because the ability to erase history and deny becomes less effective over time. The "lock box" gets rusty. The anger and pain wants to come out...the older, wiser woman realizes that she was a victim. And no amount of money is worth that.

This is abusive and it should be openly warned against. It probably can't be stopped, but it should be actively slammed for what it is, sexual predation.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Some will deeply regret it, I'm sure. Others won't.
Many of us have stuff from our younger years we regret. As for my friend, she knew what she was getting into. I know that because we talked about it and she was very clear that she understood exactly what her choice meant. How does she feel about it today? I wish I knew, but we lost touch over the years, so I can't ask her. She got her PhD, though, which she could never have paid for, given her impoverished state at the time. The last thing I heard from her was that she had an assistant professorship at a small college in Ohio.

Not everyone has his or her life destroyed by choices that are poor ones. Some do, but not everyone. As I said, I think it's a terribly risky thing to do, and has the potential to be destructive or even deadly. Sadly some will take that chance without a lot of thought.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #25
34. Most will regret it
Edited on Mon Aug-01-11 03:46 PM by marions ghost
--at least the healthier ones will. If there are no acknowledged regrets then I would look for deep denial or depression. Being victimized at a young age and doing things your conscience tells you you should NOT HAVE to do (and your heart tells you you don't WANT to do) WILL have repercussions later. (This is why I equate it to young men who are sent to "wars" before they know what they're getting into, to kill--which many don't want to do (and afterwards feel they shouldn't have had to do, but they needed a job).

I'm not saying people can't get over it, but it may take some work. They may end up paying some of their hard-earned money to a good counselor later. Most of the women who do this are young and naive. It would be interesting to follow up and see how they feel about it years later, when it really sinks in about what they did to get ahead --not that it was "wrong" morally, but that they were used and abused and (as u say) took a huge risk. The deep-seated anger comes partly from even being put in that position in the first place.

Would be a good subject for a psych study --I doubt it's been done. I'd like to know how many women who agree to this have already been abused in their lives. I bet there's a connection. Most women don't enter into this kind of transaction unless they feel they could truly "never have paid for" the education just as your friend did. They tell themselves they had no choice at the time. But many wake up later and have to go through some analysis to understand why they made that choice.

This can only be compared to other "poor choices" that involve being victimized. Being victimized in some way --is a specific psychological whammy with typical future consequences. It's really not a matter of forgiving yourself for classic thoughtless mistakes. It's somewhat out of the ordinary. Since you're obviously a man, MM, suggest to take a poll on this of women you know & trust. Don't take my word for it.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. People can make their own choices.
It's not predation, it's capitalism.

I'm not going to be a party to it because intimacy for money isn't intimacy.

For those who are willing to transact sex? I think their ethical compasses are fucked up. She's a victim, but only of her own values. Same with him.

From an economic standpoint, it's better to be a professor. Sex for grades requires no out-of-pocket investment at all.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Not about choices
A person who is financially hard up is under duress and will do things they would never do otherwise for money--especially when young. I'm sure you'll agree that anytime you are having sex with someone you don't want to have sex with, you are being victimized whether you realize it or not. And some of these young women think that it can be forgotten--until they are seeing a shrink twenty years later about it--not for "morality" issues, but because they are angry at themselves and at the predator.
Usually with the sex-for-grades crowd, the women are convincing themselves that they want to do it
and they like the guy. They often think of the guy as a boyfriend. It's not quite as much of a transaction for bucks as the sugar daddy thing. But in those cases too, there are often later regrets. I work in academia so I see a lot of it.

This is sexual predation by older fat cats with no scruples. Women who engage in this are victims and need to be warned about it. "It's not predation, it's capitalism"--has truth to it, if youre talking about rapacious, exploitative capitalism. Which you might.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. We all did stupid stuff when we were young adults.
But they were our choices. It's weak to later seek absolution for those mistakes on the basis of regret.

Accepting money from someone in exchange for sex is the clearest form of consent. Sellers remorse isn't the same thing as being a victim.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. I'm not saying it is not consent
Edited on Mon Aug-01-11 04:51 PM by marions ghost
of course it is consent, although the exchange of money does make it a transaction for sex which is prostitution, but I'm not arguing the legality of that. I'm talking about the future ramifications for the woman involved. Anytime you have sex with someone you absolutely do NOT want to have sex with--this makes you a victim of predation, even if you don't realize it at the time.

This is not equivalent to "doing stupid stuff." Sure we all have done stupid stuff. And we all make bad choices. But how many choices involve being victimized? How many of those bad choices put you in a situation of being used and abused by others, and is that really a free choice, even if you feel it's "worth it" at the time? Also you have to consider that women are confused enough about being sex objects in this culture. Women who have been previously abused (and so many have) may not even be able to make the distinction until years later, that they were abused.

Also I'm not really talking about "seeking absolution." That implies a whole lot of guilt. I'm not saying the woman should feel guilty. I am saying she will likely be angry at herself and at the predator many years down the line. That anger could come out in subterranean ways, directed inward or outward. Whenever it's an unhealthy situation (I think we can agree on that at least)--there WILL be lasting repercussions, in most people. This is exploitation by greedy irresponsible men--a case of victimizing those who are in a weaker position. Because if the women did not need the money pretty badly, (like the temp workers at Fukushima) they would not do it.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #27
42. So lets get rid of minimum wage laws and worker protections..
and let people just make their own choices, since predation and exploitation aren't real. It's just capitalism.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
21. I guess it beats having 25% of your wages garnished at $9/hr.
Edited on Mon Aug-01-11 12:03 PM by hobbit709
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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
22. MTV reality 'True Life' showed how common this was. The older wealthy males
had not problem allowing themselves to be filmed badgering the 'sugar baby' for sex.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
28. All aspects of the "sex industry" flourish when females are impoverished.
Edited on Mon Aug-01-11 12:40 PM by WinkyDink
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
30. See? Cutting opportunities and government help DOES spur entrepreneurship! This is great!
All those jobs!
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
37. The saddest part is that it was his generation who saddled hers with so much debt.
Edited on Mon Aug-01-11 08:20 PM by Maven
And then made it impossible to escape from.
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Blecht Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
38. Why is this news?
Impoverished women getting together with wealthy men, cash is exchanged, sex occurs!

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buckrogers1965 Donating Member (515 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
39. So how does a fat old man
get a sugar momma? *L*
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canetoad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
40. If I thought
This was a planned, sane and considered life decision taken by young women, I could almost support this approach. Supply and demand; old men need sex and adoration, young women need money to pay for an education.

In reality, it's not that simple and not all participants are so pragmatic. Have we become such a hardened society that prostitution is just another job? A means to an end?

This was not the intent of 60s and 70s feminism.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 02:18 AM
Response to Original message
41. Since I will not cross the virtual picket line at the HuffPo... any mention that most of the rest of
western civilization offers higher education virtually free?
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. Nope, not a word.
American exceptionalism: Our young people 'win the future' by hooking it to pay for college education.

Most of the Johns in the article work in finance. Thank god it passed.
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Lance_Boyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 06:29 AM
Response to Original message
44. Do we need separate threads each time a whore turns to whoring?
What's the news, here?

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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. Thanks for the
male perspective, Lance. What would we do without it?
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