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With this deal, Obama has become a Republican

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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:43 PM
Original message
With this deal, Obama has become a Republican
You can't cut a trillion dollars in domestic spending and still call yourself a progressive. And those cuts will never be restored.

The New Deal is dead. And Barack Obama has lost any right to ask this party to renominate him.

Keeping the government going can't be worth ending the social programs. By itself, keeping the government going isn't anything, especially if the rich aren't going to pay any more taxes.

If you agree that the rich won't pay more taxes, you've just plain joined the Right. You can't be progressive on anything and still agree to that.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
1.  I was going to give the last benefit of the doubt before I requested to the admins
that they allow us to openly discuss primary challenges.
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cantbeserious Donating Member (270 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. I Think We Are Past The Point Of Asking For Permission
eom
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
32. We're always allowed to discuss primary challenges
The only thing that's forbidden is third-party challenges.

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hay rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
41. Open discussion of primary challenges to Obama overdue.
Is this going to be Democratic Underground or DINO Underground?

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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
47. Where have you been? Lots of threads asking for primary challenger
I'm interested to see who actually DOES something about them rather than kicking around a wish list.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. So this deal is much worse than the rumored one?
I'd like to have all the details before I react, but it sounds terrible. Cuts $1 trillion immediately??
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. That's the end of the New Deal AND the Great Society
Especially since the war machine won't take any real cuts.

Barack Obama should just stand down. He's worth nothing now.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. I heard the House may not even pass it
Good if it's that bad. Progressives would be heard by all.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. Stand strong, CBC! Stand strong, Progressive and Populist Caucuses!
Only those who vote "no" on this have any right to call themselves Democrats.
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #23
42. +1000 "Only those who vote "no" on this have any right to call themselves Democrats"
Yep. And the President should stand down, as you said above.
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Parker CA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. And the super congress that must, before November, identify $1.5T in cuts. Everything on the table.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Everything is ON the table
The War Machine will be taken off immediately though.
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. The fuckers are already on it
:mad:
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tomg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
50. Actually, the military won't be
Off the table. However, it will be the average service person who will be on the table. There was a post in latest breaking news today that cited an article in the Airforce Times about plans to eviscerate the military pensions. Corporations, contractors, special interests, not so much. One good thing, though, was that reading the comments in air force times, damn if they didn't sound like their brothers and sisters in unions in Wisconsin.
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endless october Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. over ten years; i think that's what i heard.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. I saw the immediately part from this link
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
61. The OP is misleading you. You are correct to wait til you see the details ...
before you light your hair on fire and run screaming in circles.

Most of the cuts are cuts based on reducing forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. Something already "in plan". The GOP likes to call those cuts "gimmicks".

And as for the "death of the new deal" ... those claims too, are premature.

Botom line: The evil impending cuts that have been predicted daily on DU simply are not happening.

But let's not let that stop a good rant.

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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #61
66. Obama will cave on the Afghanistan pullout
And he'll find some excuse to not get totally out of Iraq as well. He owes too much to the MIC. You SHOULD be in the streets demanding tax increases for the rich, not endorsing austerity.
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Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. All cuts, no taxes, triggers for more cuts, no taxes.
Lovely.
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Loge23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
7. Regardless of what we say or do..
Obama is toast. No way he wins in 2012.
Book it.
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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. He did say he was willing to be a one term president
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 07:53 PM by peace frog
Saw a shiny new bumper sticker today, it has the Obama emblem and the words "One and Done" and I have to agree now.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #22
31. Obviously. He just doesn't give a shit what Democrats want.
he just lost the election.
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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. Obviously. He just handed the election to the Republicans
"One and Done".
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. Nonsense. n/t
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. A trillion dollars in cuts means no remaining social programs at all
There's nothing left.

He should have been a Democrat and used the 14th Amendment. This deal proves Obama never gave a damn about the poor. You can't care about the poor and accept a trillion dollars in cuts.

Nothing that FDR, Truman, JFK, and LBJ did could survive a trillion dollars in cuts.

Just admit it's an unforgivable betrayal.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #17
33. Hyperbole. n/t
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. You probably said that about those who denounced Clinton's welfare punishment bill
on moral grounds.

You've made your position clear...all you care about is having a DINO in the White House...even though, as was the case in the Nineties, that ended up being worthless then and will be worthless now.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #36
64. You just made a statement about the impact of this deal that was an excellent example
of hyperbole. This has nothing to do with Clinton.
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ProfessionalLeftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
11. Yep. I cannot support him in 2012. I'll support a challenger.
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 07:52 PM by ProfessionalLeftist
If there is one. I mean look: we've lost social security, Medicare, Medicaid, all the tax deductions that help the middle class (mortgage interest, property tax, etc. - all those). Unions decimated, worker's rights damn near nonexistent again.

What else IS there? It's all gone. Thanks to a "Democratic" president? Uh-uh. THAT is not a Democrat. I know what a Democrat is and Obama is no Democrat. Democrats don't fuck with New Deal programs. EVER.

I'm DONE with Obama.

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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #11
55. I don't think there will be a challenger
at least not from the Democrats. Also can't see any independent challenger aside from Bernie Sanders who may be tempted but will probably refrain from challending Obama anyway. So it's Obama alone on the Democratic ticket, HELLO POTUS Republican X.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #55
63. We have to have a primary challenger, or we're doomed to defeat.
Obama can never be elected after this.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
12. Here they come! eom
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
13. And as usual, he implied but can't say how spending CUTS are going to help
this economy. This is wrong for the people, wrong for the economy and wrong for the party, a trifecta.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
14. Again, most of the cuts are fake. The first trillion can't constrain future Congresses, and half of
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 07:50 PM by BzaDem
trigger is defense. That means only about 1/4 of the deal would be real cuts to already authorized domestic spending, and ALL of it would exempt benefits for SS/Medicare/Medicaid/other programs for the poor/veterans benefits/etc.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Bullshit. If he didn't cut defense before, he won't cut it now.
Obama doesn't care about the poor or the workers. Only the rich win under this deal. He should have used the 14th. That's what a DEMOCRAT would have done.

This is why centrism=death.

Nothing will survive. We're gonna be back to the Coolidge era, unless we throw him out in the '12 primaries.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. What revenue does this bill have at all?
Are there ANY good parts? I want to know everything before I break off my support of him.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. No revenue. It's all cuts. It's the kind of program only bitter white folks
in the Segregation and Incest Belt could support.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Oh my
I was having a good day and now I'm depressed. Our only hope is with the progressives in the House. No revenues would make this country done for.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
34. Can't you at least admit that it's unacceptable that taxes on the rich won't rise at all?
After all the only reasons we have this deficit at all are

1)The Bush Tax Cuts

2)The Wars(you know, the Middle East ones you refuse to admit are immoral and pointless).

Take those out, we'd have a balanced budget now.
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Imajika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #14
39. I don't know why people don't understand this...
The prize was getting the debt ceiling increase done and to not have to deal with the next one till after the 2012 election. The goal was to prevent the teabaggers from running this dog and pony show yet again.

The only cuts that will matter are the ones in 2012 - and those are relatively tiny (a few billion).

There are no other meaningful cuts that the next budget won't simply rewrite or override.

Obama won, and as the days pass that fact will become increasingly obvious.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. He could have done that by invoking the 14th.
Face it, the Right won. The poor and the workers lost. Our party is supposed to be the anti-austerity party. If we aren't that, we aren't anything. It's worthless to be "the party that doesn't cut quite as much".
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. Yep, and who really thinks in 2012 those new cuts won't..
be agreed to? No reason to think they won't be.
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Imajika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. The 14th amendment thing was never realistic...
It just wasn't. The downsides were just too great, and the President's lawyers did not believe it was a legally tenable position.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Translation: they don't have the guts to right the Reich-wing
And just as in every other skirmish, they gave in to it.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Better than a horrible deal
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 08:26 PM by mvd
The President's lawyers aren't the only lawyers who have an opinion on that, but unfortunately they count.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
16. DISGUSTING to hear this come out of the mouth of "Democratic" President.
:puke:
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SnoopDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
20. Obama has always been a republican... He was ushered in to kill SS and Medicare
Mission accomplished.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
26. I don't know what anyone is worried about.
When has a Republican ever honored a contract? Where I live, rules, laws and other people's rights are easily dismissed just by citing a higher need.

So, we just take back the house and undue everything that they voted on.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. I'm not sure that will even be possible now.
Unless every Dem in the House and Senate votes against it...we'll have no right to ask people to vote Dem in '12. We can't campaign on a "not quite as vicious" platform and ever win.

At the very least, we can only retake the House if Obama isn't renominated. He's clearly shown now that he doesn't want this party to recover from 2010. Obama wants this shit to go on forever. That's the only conclusion that you can take from an "all cuts" deal.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. I might take a break from DU except for the Lounge
This is all so awful. I know the Republicans tried to take us hostage, but the hostages have to fight back at some point.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Don't blame you.
Might be the healthier choice.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #28
44. "he doesn't want this party to recover from 2010"
airplane glue
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Do you ever plan to make an actually coherent post?
You can't actually be happy about this Tea Party wet dream of a deal.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Certainly not when I quote your lame shit, Burch
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #49
57. You could try making an actual case for why we should still trust the admin at all.
Unless, by not doing so, you're admitting that no such case exists.

It's not as though our only options are a Democratic president who always caves in to the Right on everything matters or "President Palin, President Palin, President Palin". We can't be expected to let our choices be reduced to that.

Obama needs to announce his withdrawal from the 2012 contest now, so we can nominate someone who actually FIGHTS for us.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. Palin?
You ARE bored.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #59
65. Or Bachmann, or whoever...
Why don't you care about this? You can't seriously say that these massive cuts are "no biggie".
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
35. It actually helps the President for angry progressives like you to be complaining like this..
the hard-core RWingers might think its a good deal for them and vote for it.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. You're assuming Obama gives a rip about us
Or that he ever wanted to avoid massive cuts at all.

Why do you still trust the guy?

(still, I wouldn't mind the Right voting against this out of stupidity, since the Right is getting everything and making no concessions at all).
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
40. oh there is nothing wrong with cuts, they could cut a lot more and
no one would ever notice.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Not from programs for the poor
Those programs are already on life support.

And remember, the war machine will always be spared.
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Trey9007 Donating Member (140 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
54. Wow... is $100B a year really that much....
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 08:27 PM by Trey9007
IMO, its not that big of a number.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Yes it is when probably followed by more and more..
with no revenue.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
58. Really? The New Deal is Dead?
Social Security was ended today?

Um, no.

btw ... this wasn't about "keeping the government going" ... it was about paying for the debts we already owe.

There was NO WAY that new taxes were going to pass the House or the Senate. None.

Obama did not create that situation, VOTERS did.

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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. He could have invoked the 14th.
And if it means massive cuts, keeping the government going, in and of itself, isn't really worth it. No one should ever settle for "not as bad".

And it will be impossible for Obama to get any enthusiastic support from anyone other than Wall Street in 2012. No one in any poor neighborhood and no workers will still believe in him after this. And he never really had support in the uptight white 'burbs anyway.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
62. Agreed. nt
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
67. Locking
Seriously, this is getting crazy. Obama was never going to get Congress to agree to a tax hike at this point in time.

It seems like we're all getting each other more and more worked up as the evening progresses...

This is setting an impossible bar for approval.
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