The House Won't Impeach if BO Raises the Debt Ceiling

[titaniumsalute]

Why? That would be real political suicide. The vast majority of the people polled in the past few weeks have wanted the debt deiling raised. CEOs want the debt ceiling raised. Farmers want the debt ceiling raised. Small business owners want the debt ceiling raised.

If BO raises the ceiling using the 14th Amendment the House would have to hold impeachment hearings on a President who made a decision to uphold the constition. I think the negative PR would be too ovewhelming and it would dramatically backfire.

[flamingdem]

1. Sure. They'll wait until the heat dies down and start impeachment proceedings, believe it nt

[titaniumsalute]

5. If they do it would be real political suicide

I would welcome it frankly. The President says "I was obeying the constitution." Most scholars agree that it is constitutional for him to do it. I think it would the most bad for repukes.

[coalition_unwilling]

20. Most scholars DO NOT agree that it is consitutional for Obama to

use the 14th Amendment to trump Article 1, Section 8. In fact, Obama's own attorneys in the White House don't believe it is constitutional.

[Tx4obama]

24. That is NOT what Obama's attorneys said. Please stop making things up.

The attorneys said that they "thought that it wouldn't be a winning argument".

The attorneys said NOTHING about it being constitutional or not.

[coalition_unwilling]

31. Oh, for Christ's sake. Everyone who has commented on what

Obama's attorneys have said (whether agreeing or disagreeing with the substance) has conceded that his attorneys were rendering an opinion on the 14th's likely constitutionality IF TESTED IN THE JUDICIARY.

And you want to be pedantic and actually stand on the words the attorneys actually used?

Welcome to my Ignore list. I've got way more important things to do than listen to and debate with a fucking pedant.

[AlinPA]

10. And drag it out until they win the senate in 2012. Which they will.

[joshcryer]

29. god let that happen, please oh please oh please. We'd have supermajorities in the House, Senate...

...and Obama would be reelected so resoundingly and we'd be just I mean, I have no words by how bad this would be for these idiots.

[DainBramaged]

2. They are too fucking stupid to understand logic

they'd burn the house down to keep the lawn from getting too much water

[titaniumsalute]

6. Well that is certainly true

Maybe I should have said "They will impeach him..." but it won't matter. I think it would be real poltiical suicide for the Repukes to do it though.

[BumRushDaShow]

3. They will because they are peopled with racist psychopaths. n/t

[Vinca]

4. He would never, ever do it. The real question is what he'll give up.

[maryellen99]

you really think he would let us default and let people suffer

You really think he is that heartless?

[Vinca]

32. He's not heartless, but I don't think he has that kind of courage. I hope I'm wrong.

[Tx4obama]

7. All of this impeachment talk is BS and not based in fact for logic.

'To impeach' means to bring forth criminal charges.

There would be NO criminal charge to bring forth.
The President invoking the U.S. Constitution is NOT criminal.

If folks are going to talk about impeachment then they should first state what the 'criminal charge' would be.

[H2O Man]

9. Partly right.

Impeachment is not based upon prosecuting any criminal charge, despite the words "high crimes and misdemeanors." It is a civil action; those "high crimes and misdemeanors" can, but need not, be violations of criminal law.

However, there is zero chance -- absolutely none -- that President Obama could possibly face impeachment from this business .... except in the wildest of imaginations of the most grossly uninformed.

[Tx4obama]

28. Thank you.

I went and checked it out, it's always good to learn something new :)
By reading the text below, I still think President Obama is SAFE from any impeachment charges if he were to use the 14th amend of the U.S. Constitution.
p.s. It would be amusing to actually see the GOP 'try' to use the fact that Obama 'used the Constitution' against him - it would make the GOP look even more insane than they already are.


From Wikipedia

High crimes and misdemeanors is a phrase from Section 4 of Article Two of the United States Constitution: "The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."

"High" in the legal parlance of the 18th century means "against the State". A high crime is one which seeks the overthrow of the country, which gives aid or comfort to its enemies, or which injures the country to the profit of an individual or group. In democracies and similar societies it also includes crimes which attempt to alter the outcome of elections.

The first impeachment conviction by the United States Senate was in 1804 of John Pickering, a judge of the United States District Court for the District of New Hampshire, for chronic intoxication. Federal judges have been impeached and removed from office for tax evasion, conspiracy to solicit a bribe, and making false statements to a grand jury.

In the impeachment of Bill Clinton in the late 1990s for perjury, the exact meaning of the term high crimes and misdemeanors became the subject of debate. A particular subject of debate is exactly what rises to the level of high crimes and misdemeanors. Some felt that the act of perjury, a federal crime, rose to that level. Others felt that this particular act of perjury, while illegal, did not reach that level because the lie was specifically in regard to a matter of personal infidelity and that the questioning that led to it was allegedly politically-motivated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_crimes_and_misdemeanors

[titaniumsalute]

16. That was basically my point for the post

In addition, I've heard from some scholars that if the debt ceiling isn't raised that the president cannot decide individually who gets paid and not. That is unconstitutional.

[gulliver]

8. I think the House just gave him the green light.

They voted down the Reid proposal. McConnell and Boehner are hanging by a thread now. Obama has all the justification he needs.

[SoutherDem]

11. They would impeach. The Teabaggers would make sure

Well at least they would have the hearings, there may be a few Republican's who would not vote to impeach and it may end there, but if it went to the Senate it would end there.

[gulliver]

12. You can't impeach by obstruction. You're right.

There is no way they could impeach. The GOP would implode. I think they are doing so right now.

[Cirque du So-What]

13. If the President is as much a corporate lackey as many are saying

then why in pluperfect hell would he fail to do the bidding of his corporate masters by NOT invoking the 14th Amendment as a means to avert default?

Yes, that premise is laden with false assumptions, including the one that the plutocrats would allow default in the first place and the one that Barack Obama is a corporate lackey. To me, it makes about as much sense as constructing 'alternate history' worlds in the mind - wondering what would have happened if Hitler had pulled off victory in WW II or if native Americans had thrown the first Europeans to arrive back into the sea. It didn't happen, so why concern ourselves with idle conjecture? Same with the debt ceiling: any scenario that involves allowing default just ain't gonna happen! The overlords won't allow it!

One other thing: is there an electron shortage or something that prevents typing three more characters to make 'Obama' instead of the repugnant abbreviation 'BO?' If speed and efficiency are such an overriding concern, may I suggest just typing 'O' instead? Everyone smart enough to figure out who 'BO' is won't have a problem deciphering 'O,' yunno. Maybe I'm oversensitive, but recall the days before the election when every freep, RW nutjob & racist was deploying 'BO' like a fucking weapon. Perhaps you mean nothing by it, but many people - myself included - perceive a slight that could easily be construed as racist.

[dionysus]

26. .

:thumbsup:

[joshcryer]

30. Corporations do not want the United States to fall into an actual, real, decade long depression.

No way in hell.

[stklurker]

14. 14th

"on a President who made a decision to uphold the Constitution"

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.



Its a very big stretch to say the president can do this.. its pretty clear in the 14th Amendment, which is why he and the WH lawyers really dont think its an option. His oath to uphold the constitution pretty much puts him in a tough spot here.. it clearly says "Congress" and by the Separation of powers makes this a dicey move at best.


The other thing is.. it really doesnt solve anything, and the SAME Congress will be having to address this right now anyway.. Politically I think its better to let it run out.. I think it will leave the Tea Baggers holding the bag with the American People...

[TheKentuckian]

27. What is better for the people and future of the United States?

What makes you think anything will get hung on the TeaPubliKlans anyway? There seems to be decades of pretty damning shit and they abide.

Those whose first and commanding thought is about political machinations are about as wrongheaded as these idiot terrorist in DC.

[AndyTiedye]

15. Of Course They Will Impeach

The Repiglickin' media will be covering the impeachment hearings 24x7,
giving hours of coverage every day to Congressional teabaggers to bash
the President.

The Senate would not likely vote to remove Obama from office, but the
Repigs would get a lot of mileage out of it nonetheless.

It would still be worth it if there were a chance the Supreme Court
would uphold such a move, but there is no way that would happen.

[titaniumsalute]

17. I've read that the Supreme Court would never hear it

The reason being is they would have to "hear it" if there were suits made against the President. The problem is a suit needs to be based on some sort of "harm" to a plaintiff. They would apparently have a very difficult time justifying "harm" by the President acting to hold off a default of the government which essentially would be helping millions of people.

[Ozymanithrax]

18. Then why commit political suicide with...

the debt ceiling debacle
tax breaks for millionaires
opposing the a public option.

If you think about it, Republicans have been on the wrong side of public opinion polls on a lot of things...and they are still here.

I for one would like to see them complete an act of political sepuku.

What I have noticed is that they do what they think will get their base to the polls to elect them. Since we have a government elected by a majority who vote, their strategy appears to work more often than not.

[titaniumsalute]

19. Take away the social security and medicare

and see how many of their faithful show up at the polls.

[Ozymanithrax]

23. It still may be enough for them to wein...because

Cuts to SS and Medicare can only be enacted with the help of Democrats. I won't vote for a Republican that cuts Social Security or Medicare. Being an equal opportunity won't vote for, I won't vote for a Democrat that cuts Social Security or Medicare.

Republicans will do what they think will get their voters to the polls. They don't care about those of us won't vote for them. Cutting SS and Medicare will suppress voting on both sides. They bet that more of theirs will turn out for them.

[TomCADem]

21. Yes, They Would. You Assume That This Is All Just Negotiation...

...Instead, the actions of the righth are driven by ideology. It is like trying to debate whether the actions of the Norway terrorist actually advanced his political agenda. The right wing seriously does believe their facist B.S. We should not underestimate how crazy they are or assume that they are rational. Indeed, given their warped views that President Obama is some Kenyan Marxist, they probably believe that their actions are entirely rationale.

[jwirr]

22. Plus I think they will just be very thankful he took this issue off the

table and got them off the hook. They seem to be losing the battle to blame it on Obama.

[cascadiance]

25. They might impeach if Obama DOESN'T use the 14th Amendment...

It would be just the Republican's style as they did with Clinton and the "perjury trap" they put him through that they would try to create a scenario where they could find reasons to impeach him whether he does or doesn't do a certain controversial action like the 14th Amendment. If they scare him in to not using it, then they actually might have a BIGGER argument to do an impeachment than if he used the 14th amendment and by doing so rescued our economy.

That is why Obama really MUST use the 14th amendment. And I really feel though that Obama is doing the right thing by waiting to play his card in this situation until the very end, as it does allow the Republicans to look more like fools until then.

Now it looks like Bernie Sanders is asking for this too as I speak. He's quoting Tom Harkin's earlier comments!