If the shit hits the fan and the Survivalists get their long planned day in the sun.

[nomb]

I don't own a gun, have no rations in the basement and no plan.

But with the rash of 'end of times' discussion here lately I'd just like to present a thought:

How long are the majority of fat old guys with a dozen rifles or punk gangbangers likely to maintain their imagined positions when healthy, intelligent and Type-A driven sophisticated urbanites decide to assert themselves?

Just a thought. :)

[Drahthaardogs]

1. Most urbanites have problems hanging a picture

They have no survival skills. They cannot plant a field or skin a deer. What they can and will do however, is find a way to compensate those who CAN plant a field and skin a buck. As Tennessee Ernie Ford said, "a mind that is weak but a back that is strong." The smart and powerful will manipulate the poor and stupid.

[Systematic Chaos]

2. With any luck, the punk gangbangers will make an easy lunch out of the fat old guys.

Thus taking care of two undesirable groups in one wannabe zombie apocalypse.

Hopefully I won't still be fat by then and will be able to scuttle to safety. :P

[ProgressiveProfessor]

26. More likely the other way around

The gangbangers would strut their stuff and the old farts like me would pick them off for target practice.

Seriously, I live out in the middle of nowhere, but am still withing the range of one tank of gas from densely populated areas. I have a decent sized cache. It is not in the main buildings and hard to find...I like it that way.

I do not expect long term disruption but earthquake and other disaster could make for a rough patch. Being able to be self sufficient is good thing in those kind of circumstances

[Systematic Chaos]

34. Thanks for the response, and with it I feel I should clarify something.

I'm not saying I have any issues with the elderly in general. Or fat people. I stand 6'3" and currently weigh about 335, down from over 500 two years ago. Plant-based eating has saved my life. I'm 42 and at my heaviest most 80-year-olds could move faster and further than I ever could. And I still have another 120 or so pounds to drop and a lot of damage to reverse. But enough about me.

When I was talking about "fat old guys" I meant those asscarrots who go to the Teabagger meetings, disrupt townhalls while whining about keeping those nasty government mitts out of Medicare, those so-called border patrol militias who couldn't find their cornholes with both hands...that sort of thing.

But as for fat and/or elderly progressives and liberals of all stripes, your life experiences are a necessary component of our present-day discourse. Sadly, there aren't enough of you to go around it would seem.

I meant absolutely no offense to you or any other members in good standing of the DU.

[ret5hd]

3. hmmm...lemme guess...you're under 25 and think you're pretty tough.

am i right?

[nomb]

4. No. You are incorrect.

[DainBramaged]

5. Remember, the Neanderthals were replaced quickly by a smarter and thinner model

man 10.0 as you will........

[MuseRider]

6. What group do you fall into?

Just wondering.

[nomb]

7. Hole diggers. :)

I get winded walking up stairs now.

[MuseRider]

8. I would suggest then

that you take some time to stock up. Not only is it wise if things fall apart it is generally a good way to be safe for any disaster that might happen, even just being sick for a while.

Don't forget water.

[AndyTiedye]

23. You Might Want to Work on THAT Then

I get winded walking up stairs now.

You might want to do something about that. Digging holes is a lot of work.




If TSHTF we'll hole up in the mountains until the assholes run out of bullets.

[Urban Prairie]

9. Defense of one's stash of hoarded supplies, ammo and arms

Might well become a bit difficult to accomplish vs hordes of desperate, starving people with nothing to lose, who would probably very willingly sacrifice high numbers amongst them to overwhelm the survivalist's defenses, those of whom are left might succeed, then would likely fight and kill each other over who gets to acquire his cache..just sayin'.

[slackmaster]

16. That's why I have enough Mosin-Nagants to arm every household on the block

Safety in numbers.

[TalkingDog]

17. Actually when starvation sets in, people become lethargic and detached.

It's the bodies way of preserving energy. Now, mere hunger could make people desperate, but that only takes 4 or 5 days to work it's way into starvation.

The people just outside a city (suburbs) with supplies are more likely to be a target than folks living in rural areas.

[sendero]

10. It's amazing.

.... the amount of rationalization people will engage in to somehow convince themselves that their lack of preparation is some kind of advantage.

[lumberjack_jeff]

12. +1

Maybe I can trade quarts of applesauce for ipads?

[Urban Prairie]

18. There is quite obviously, no inherent advantage whatsoever in being "unprepared", that is just silly

Other than perhaps tending to be more likely to do oneself in, as painlessly and as quickly as possible, once it becomes vividly apparent that the system has collapsed and the government having been overthrown/shutdown, or if they are willing or prefer to permit someone else to do "it" for them, if they instead attempt to try to survive, lacking sufficient, if any preparations made beforehand to continue to do so.

But on the other hand, the only clear advantage, IMO, that those who HAVE meticulously prepared for such "contingencies", is if they do not have to leave their fortified, hidden, camoflaged, and best of all, a not easily accessible and very isolated location, (or for some of the truly prepared, additional "fallback" locations to retreat to), for any reason and for quite an extended period of time, else risk potentially exposing/revealing themselves and maybe their location(s) as well. In that case, the passage of time and perhaps also being part/one of a group of connected survivalists by location and/or communications , likely are their primary and best allies to successfully "wait it out" and then someday being able to emerge "safely" into the bombed/hollowed out brave new world, being the "Mad-Max"-like remnants of the economically crashed/civil war trashed/nuked post-apocalyptic landscape.

[sendero]

29. There are degrees of preparedness.....

... and I will be the first to admit that if a "Mad Max" scenario develops, no preparation is likely to save you.

However, that is pretty unlikely. What is far from unlikely is temporary food shortages, power shortages, stuff like that.

And preparation can definitely stave off such contingencies.

[lumberjack_jeff]

11. Indefinitely.

:rofl:

[toddwv]

13. Every tribe will need a warlord.

Sorry, but those beta male wienies who are afraid EVEN NOW to step out of the house without an AR-15 and a couple of fragmentation grenades are not exactly leadership class.



If we have learned ANYTHING from post-apocalyptic films, to be a good warlord, you must have innate organizational skills, the ability to inspire others, access to resources (yours or somebody else's) and a snazzy trumped up moniker...and good cardio definitely helps, oh and minions...what's a good warlord w/o minions? I mean c'mon!

[a la izquierda]

33. Hahaha...

this is why I do not worry about my husband. He is not afraid of anything, yet does not feel the need to have a cache of weapons. We have a baseball bat and three dogs. If we needed a gun for some reason, he'd get one. He's a good leader, has a cool head, and good organizational skills.
We will start a greenhouse once we buy our own place, and I'm learning to can veggies. I think we'd be okay.

[elocs]

14. If rain is predicted eventually that prediction will come to pass.

If your life is lived around preparing for rain you will miss out on enjoying some beautiful and sunny days. Just make sure your roof doesn't leak and you have an umbrella and a mac.

[slackmaster]

15. I'm not fat and I own more than 40 rifles

Your stereotyping has no place on a "progressive" forum.

[fivepennies]

19. But are survivalists

really expecting 'a day in the sun' or are they planning to go underground? Most of those I know are not planning to make targets of themselves or wave any red flags for the bullies if it can be avoided. That's why they call it survival.

[slackmaster]

21. In my neighborhood, people would organize

We have several natural leaders in the immediate area. We would definitely help each other out.

[fivepennies]

22. You're very lucky.

Or maybe you're a good "chooser" in terms of neighborhoods. There will probably be more of that going on than most people would expect. We'll pull together or fall apart.

[formercia]

31. We can see it happening already

Peckerwoods drawing attention to themselves and provoking the Authorities. It rarely ends well. There seems to be a standoff about once a week in these parts.
Having a big Gun serves little purpose, since the PTB always has one bigger.

[BiggJawn]

20. And after their 6-month supply of MRE's run out?

What happens then? Do they come to the village, intent on robbing the NON sociopathic people who decided to band and work together?

[The Midway Rebel]

24. I bet you'd be surprised.

[saras]

25. The winners will be the ones who can organize violent organizations with discipline

There's no reason to expect the leaders of these organizations to be adept at physical fighting, any more than big Mob leaders have to be buff.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

28. Only for the short term

Violence is not the formula for long term survival.

[WinkyDink]

27. And those urbanites have no food or weapons? Yeah, they'll strike fear.

[undercutter799]

30. lol at survivalists

at the core these are the people who are upset that they can't beat up somebody or rape women simply because they are stronger

thank god for civilized society

[Imajika]

32. LOL, urbanites would be in deep trouble...

There is no food in the cities. Once the distribution network goes down, the cities starve. In a real armageddon type scenario the die off in urban areas would be massive - probably pushing 80%. In the urban areas, the law of the jungle would replace all civility until those areas are reduced to almost no population.

The rural lone or family survivalists wouldn't fare much better. What good is all that stockpiled food and material if you don't have enough bodies to defend it.

The real winners (if you can call them that) will be people in rural areas who were reasonably prepared for catastrophe and are ready to work together in small to mid sized groups (up to and including the small town level). You'd have to include only people who could contribute some skill of value (along with their immediate families) and be prepared to keep masses of refugees away from whatever plot of land your calling home.

[Zebedeo]

35. I am shaking in my boots

afraid of the army of "sophisticated urbanites" that will be coming to my farm bent on asserting themselves. I hope my dogs will alert me to their presence in time for me to chamber a round in my rifle. :scared: :rofl: