I am trying to get ready for the "Obama had no choice but to sign it!" threads!!!

[Logical]

At the last minute the GOP will dump some POS bill that kicks the crap out of SS and medicare on us and web will be too scared to veto it! I just hope the Senate stands strong!

[Scurrilous]

1. Sounds like a fun way to spend a Friday afternoon!

:thumbsup:

[dmallind]

2. How will they dump it through the Senate? nt

[Logical]

4. I agree that is our only hope! I think we are bad at calling bluffs!

[JoePhilly]

6. Shussh ... let the anti-Obama fantasy run for a while!

Sure, its never going to happen, but panic is much more fun.

[CoffeeCat]

54. Oh please...

Obama has played this game the whole way. This whole thing has been a sick joke. The
Republicans never had to tie the debt ceiling to any of this. Why didn't Obama just
say that a million times and take his case to the American people?

All Obama had to say was, "John Bohner and the rest of the Republicans raised the debt
ceiling eight times, and never batted an eyelash. Why are the Republicans manufacturing
this crisis?"

Instead...Obama offered to cut Social Security!

If you can't see it, I feel sorry for you.

And as for "anti-Obama fantasy" most of us started out very pro-Obama. I was a precinct
captain for him. I believed in him, even while he made mistakes the first year of his
administration, but continually kow towing to the corporations and playing his part in
this current charade is ENOUGH.

The elites, the corporations and the neocons have been trying to get their grubby paws
on Social Security and dismantle it--for decades. They've also wanted the millionaires
and billionaires in this country (themselves) to pay very little taxes. Our politicians
are just about to deliver those things to them--with this legislation. By using the
debt ceiling to manufacture a smokescreen--our politicians are participating in a big
farce and Obama plays his own role.

It's all a lie. You either participate or you don't. Obama could end this now and demand
a clean debt-ceiling bill--but he won't---because then he couldn't help the elites cut
Soc Sec and give the millionaires tax windfalls, now could he?

[bvar22]

74. +1

Well stated.
:patriot:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

3. Your assuming the Senate will pass this POS?

I'm not so sure.

[Logical]

7. I said "I hope the senate stands strong" in my OP.

[leveymg]

23. Have you read the Senate Bill? Is $Trillion in domestic cuts "standing strong" in your book?

This is a phony crisis intended to push through the next round of Right-wing legislation. F-ck em.

Here the Senate "Compromise" from Baucus' website: http://baucus.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=601

What Does the Long-Term Senate Compromise Do?

The long-term solution, unveiled in the Senate yesterday includes $2.7 trillion agreed upon cuts, and allows the U.S. to continue to meet its obligations through 2012. The Senate compromise keeps the promise to seniors and military retires, and does not cut Medicare or Social Security or raise taxes.

* $1.2 Trillion in Discretionary Spending Cuts. The $1.2 trillion in discretionary spending cuts include both defense and non-defense spending. It does not cut Medicare or Social Security.
* $100 Billion in Mandatory Savings. Again these savings keep the promise to seniors and military retirees and do not cut Medicare and Social Security benefits. Savings include:
o $40 billion in cutting out fraud, waste and abuse in programs like unemployment insurance.
o $15 Billion In Spectrum Sales. This provision would save money by allowing the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to auction portions of the radio spectrum.
o $11 Billion In Agricultural Reforms. Baucus fought hard to ensure the ag cuts in this proposal were less than the $48 billion in Farm Bill cuts proposed in the House.
o Higher Education Program Reforms Whose Savings Go To Sustain The Pell Grant Program. The proposal fills a shortfall in the Pell program for fiscal years 2012 and 2013, to maintain the current maximum Pell level of $5,550.
* $1 Trillion in Savings From Winding Down the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to focus on fighting terrorism and strengthening America, not nation building overseas.
* $400 Billion in Interest Savings. By cutting spending, this package reduces the U.S. deficits, and reducing our deficits reduces the interest the federal government must pay on our debt each year.
* Establishes Joint Congressional Committee to Find Future Savings. In addition to $2.7 trillion in concrete savings, the Senate package will establish a joint, bipartisan committee, made up of 12 members, to present options for future deficit reduction. The committee's recommendations will be guaranteed an up-or-down Senate vote, without amendments, by the end of 2011.

Contact: Kate Downen 406-224-5056/Jenny Donohue 202-224-4515/Kathy Weber 406-657-5915

# # #

For more information on Health Care Reform visit: http://finance.senate.gov


montana seal

[dennis4868]

42. SHHHHH......

This is DU...WE CANT BLAME DEMS IN CONGRESS...IT'S ALWAYS OBAMA'S FAULT...hahahaha!

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Logical]

11. I will vote for Obama, but think he will be too scared to call their bluff!

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[county worker]

22. Don't blame the DUers! Look, we remember what was said in during

the campaign and we compare it to what is happening. AND WE DON"T LIKE WHAT WE SEE!

Why is that so f---ing hard for you to understand?

What part of "no change" "no hope" don't you understand?


The middle class is shrinking everyday. Millions out of work for over a year. 50 million still don't have access to medical care. The wars still go on. GITMO is still torturing.

And we have to sit here and hope Obama doesn't give into to the Repubs again which is not in our best interests. Why is Social Security on the table with Medicare and no raises in taxes?

If you look at the vast majority of people in this country they are no better off then when Bush was President and we were promised change from that!

[EFerrari]

28. I am not anti-Obama. I am anti- horrible policy. n/t

[GreenPartyVoter]

41. Ditto

[ej510]

56. +1!

[bvar22]

75. Me too.

He is a likable man with a beautiful family,
BUT,
Slashing Government Spending and "trimming" "Entitlements" during a Recession & Jobs Crisis
IS Conservative Republican Dogma.
It has NEVER worked,
and I can't support it NOW
because I am a DEMOCRAT.

He should be preaching Democratic Policy from the Bully Pulpit,
NOT repeating & reinforcing Republican Dogma.

[treestar]

34. +1

Welcome to DU!

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

49. Oh yes it's just tragic

:eyes:

[fascisthunter]

61. Not Anti-Obama... just Anti-Bullshit Corporate Sellouts

[MilesColtrane]

68. It's to the point now that if Obama reaches a compromise, he's a craven DINO.

If he stands firm and the government defaults, it's his fault because he stood by and did nothing.

If he doesn't do some extra-Constitutional power grab and summarily raise the limit himself, he's spineless.

[villager]

8. Don't you understand? He is a "great leader" who has "no choice" but to repeatedly cave!

n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. Yep. A fragile flower unaware of his veto pen and it's usage.

[dennis4868]

46. right...

if he didn't cave we would have all of this---> www.whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com hahaha

By the way, if he did not cave in many circumstances we would not have many important laws in place now...i.e., DADT Repeal, Start Treaty, extended unemployment insurance. But like the tea baggers, if bills and legislation is not 100% perfect the way they want it coming out of congress (even though congress is not fillubuster proof), many liberals get mad at Obama....crazy stuff!

[villager]

50. hell, on bankster bailouts, domestic surveillance, and environmental protection, I'd take *50%*

yes, he has done a couple of not-too-bad "Rockefeller Republican" things.

But like the Rockefeller Republican he is, well -- we know who his real constituency is.

[dennis4868]

57. Blinded by

irrational thought...so sad...really!

[villager]

63. Glad to see a factual, calm rebuttal on your part!

Which is to say: Your reply was exactly as exepected.

:thumbsup:

[dennis4868]

65. haha....

I learned a few months back that facts are meaningless here for so many....why watse my time anymore :-) Have a good day!

[villager]

yes, you clearly don't "waste your time on facts!"

A nice day back at ya! ;-)

[villager]

67. hmmm.. does DU debate become more fervid when posts are duped!?

:shrug:

[dennis4868]

66. haha

I learned a few months back that facts are meaningless here for so many....why watse my time anymore :-) Have a good day!

[graywarrior]

9. Oy...take a Gov't 101, please.

[Logical]

16. Please be more specific for us members not as smart as you!

[graywarrior]

24. Being specific here? At DU?

Surely you jest. No one here listens to anything.

[EFerrari]

30. Baloney. DU as whole is well informed and usually ahead of the curve. n/t

[graywarrior]

32. I must be logged into a different place

Everytime I come here, the front page is filled with emotional BS. I can't even read half the crap that gets posted here.

[EFerrari]

35. Yes, you must be. n /t

[Aerows]

40. I'm with you

Must be logged into the wrong place, because this is one of the more informed groups of people I've ever met.

[graywarrior]

55. Try being here 10 years

It's exhausting, even after a 6 month break.


And BTW, I have no problem with DU. I have a problem with hysteria and emotional reactions to things not fully understood.

[fascisthunter]

60. well, explain then

[treestar]

43. A bill becomes a law when the House and Senate both pass it

and the President signs it.

Therefore the only way for the debt ceiling to be raised is for the current House to pass a bill raising it. And the Senate. And then the President can sign it.

If the current House passes no such bill (and it does not have to even propose one) then the debt ceiling will stay the same.

So if, like the tea partiers, that is what you want, then you can encourage Obama not to sign anything that includes an increase in the ceiling.

[DevonRex]

48. I see they prefer to just blame everything on Obama.

Just like before.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. Will it be added as another glolrious achievement to "The List"?

[Myrina]

18. Yes, it's "better than nothing" and "a starting point" and ...

.... "we can improve on it after the next election, just wait and see" and .. and .. and ..

:spank: :spank:

[Aerows]

45. "Sold Social Security down the river

and made other odious compromises to appease a group of people that wouldn't be appeased unless I resigned and killed everyone that identified as a Democrat in a horrific manner."

[Aerows]

13. Get ready for "you don't matter" threads, too

You don't matter, up until the polls close, then suddenly, you matter so much you caused him to lose the election. It isn't his fault - it was yours. Oh, but ... you don't really matter.

[mitchtv]

26. bulls eye Aerows

my opinion doesn't matter anyway. Since I've been a Dem for 40 years, I am a fringe, voter now.With newbies defining Democrat for me.

[Aerows]

29. Yep

And since I don't matter, and I'm a fringe voter, I'll just say that my solid Dem voting record, support and values apparently "don't matter".

I'd say I was fed up with both sides, but since both are so far to the damn right I can barely tell the difference between the two (other than right and mental institution), I really don't know what to say anymore except I'm fed up with Washington, with a few exceptions.

[meegbear]

15. And how are you trying to get ready for it? Is there a ritual or something?

[Logical]

19. Remember how I felt when we extended tax cuts for the rich!

[county worker]

17. Let the debt ceiling stay where it is. Obama tell the people that he wants to protect

the American way of life and values from the tea party and let them get the blame.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

20. Nothing like that will get through the Senate

and even if it does, President Obama won't sign it IMHO- and people will understand.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[quinnox]

36. Just like the tax cuts for rich BS

Yep, we have seen this farce already.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[quinnox]

27. The excuses are going to be flowing freely

The Obama can do no wrong crowd has a list ready explaining how any deal reached was a brilliant political maneuver and success for Obama despite the cuts to core Democratic social programs.

"Well, it could have been a lot worse!" Admirable leadership by the president!

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

33. I'm trying to stick with the hope of a clean bill to raise the ceiling.

[dennis4868]

37. Of course...

there is no thread saying, "I am trying to get ready for the spineless dems in congress introducing a debt ceiling bill and they had no choise but not include revenues." ITS ALWAYS OBAMA'S FAULT HERE AT GOOD OL DU!

[treestar]

38. Are you recommending he refuse to sign any bill

And see if the Repubs allow the default?

IOW, you believe that the Repubs don't really want the default and will pass the debt ceiling increase clean when Obama wins a game of chicken with them?

[dennis4868]

47. what many DUers do not...

understand is that the Repubs are perfectly willing to run the country off a cliff...Obama as president cannot allow that...so yes, we have dysfunctional politics which leads to dysfunctional politics and policies, but stop blaming Obama for this shit!

[treestar]

71. This is what they refuse to acknowledge

That the Republicans have any power and that the Republicans are fine with anything that hurts the government. As if Obama has a choice and can play this game of chicken.

[Starry Messenger]

39. The sovereign remedy:

[CoffeeCat]

51. That is the FINAL act of this MASTERFAKE theater!

It's all bullshit. This stupid fight over the debt ceiling, the threats, the fear.

It's all a big chaotic cloud, designed to ensure the final result they want--which will be horrendously
unfair to the middle class and a big ol' gift-wrapped windfall to the billionaires and
millionaires.

Our politicians can't cut Social Security as a stand-alone bill. They couldn't continue
to give tax breaks to millionaires, while the middle class tanks--as a stand-alone bill.

So, they create this big confusing street fight--full of screaming Senators, outraged Congress members
and a whole lot of screaming, whining, threatening and bullying--as economic
armageddon for the United States is impending. Impending I tell you!!!

It's all lies, lies, lies and more lies.

We are being played to--as if we're children watching Barney. That's what they think of us.

When we see the final result of this atrocity (cuts for seniors, ass kissing for millionaires) it will
be very clear why they created this prolonged smoke-and-mirrors stage act.

[woo me with science]

73. Shock doctrine. Scam. Theft. Exactly. nt

[WI_DEM]

52. I prefer to wait and see if he does it or not. If he does you are justified in what you wrote.

[woo me with science]

72. This is not over on Aug 2. Not by a long shot.

I don't give a damn if by some miracle we come out with a clean bill on this....THIS time.

He publicly validated every Republican lie and talking point about this economy and what it needs to heal. He took what used to be malignant *Republican* framing of the economy and turned it into a bipartisan narrative for the country.

As a result of what he has done, we will be fending off assaults like this to the most vulnerable among us for YEARS to come.

If putting SS and Medicare was intended to be a rope-a-dope (which I don't believe for a moment...This whole debacle was ginned up and staged as hell), it was a failure and a devastating and lasting assault on our party and our country.

[DCBob]

53. it will never reach the Presidents desk... and even if it did.. he would veto it..

do you read??

[Marr]

58. It was all a brillaint rope-a-dope.

...or something.

[fascisthunter]

59. hahahaha.... pre-emptively, well done!

[JoePhilly]

62. Here's an idea ... use the time to work on the text of your OP when that DOESN'T happpen.

[swilton]

64. Less heat over the weekend-

I'm prepared for that also!

[Faryn Balyncd]

69. The same folks who yell "Don't criticize until you see the final bill!"

(Same song, second stanza.)

[damntexdem]

70. I'm ready to ignore such threads while contemplating how I will not vote for Obama in 2012.

That is, if that is what he ends up doing. My relationship, or future lack thereof, with the Democratic Party as a whole would depend on the roles of Congressional Dems in such a catastrophe.

[Bluebear]

76. You were psychic.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x729119

[JVS]

77. Oh, you'll find even better. Some have decided to forego that route and declare it a win.