There are really only two options left

[MadHound]

The first, a straight up and down vote on a clean bill to raise the debt ceiling. You know, that oh so ordinary thing that Congress has done time and again.

Failing that, the only other option left is Obama's use of the Fourteenth amendment to prevent default.

That's it, that's the only two real options left for Obama and the Dems. Both Boehner's plan and the Reid plan are dead in the water. The president's four trillion dollar plan is only slightly less draconian than the Reid and Boener plans, and should be unacceptable to anybody with a merciful bone in their body.

So that's it, that's what is left. A clean vote on a debt ceiling hike, as has always been done. Or the president has to exercise his 14th Amendment option.

Anything else is going to hurt our economy, and more importantly, hurt millions and millions of people across this country.

[Skidmore]

1. What are the chances that there will be a clean bill not

bastardized by those Teabagger cretins? I'd say slim to none.

[MadHound]

5. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised to see one appear on Monday

And I'm willing to bet that it will be passed. There are enough moderate 'Pugs and Dems in the House to pass it, even if it is opposed by every single Teabagger. I imagine after Boehner goes through the motion of passing his bill, and watching it die in the Senate, cooler heads will take over(prompted by thorough tongue lashings by their corporate backers) and the Teaparty will be cut loose and the adults in the chamber will take over.

[NightWatcher]

2. hopefully after Reid's and Boner's plans dont pass the other side, they'll pass a clean ceiling bill

Reid's Sentate plan wont pass the House
Oompa Loompa's plan wont pass the Senate

The only remaining option will be to pass a clean, one paragraph, debt ceiling hike or face disaster. The markets are going to be watching the votes in the House and Senate today and tomorrow.

If/when the pukes dont do this, they are daring Obama to step in or else we'll default. I figure Obama will have to act by Sunday before the Monday markets open.

[MadHound]

7. Yep, that's what I'm thinking,

Boehner's plan won't go, Reid's plan won't go, but I think there will be one more weekend of posturing before the adults take over, introducing and passing a clean bill.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

3. IIrc, an up-down vote failed a few weeks ago.

And if I further recall correctly, 50+ Dems joined in defeating it.

[MineralMan]

6. That was in May. The situation is different now.

Now, it's crisis time. Lots of stuff happens at crisis time.

[sad sally]

22. The unspoken crises is all these weasels are chomping at the bits

to start their not-so-much-deserved long vacation, which starts at the end of their work week. Officially, it's Monday, August 8th, but traditionally they aren't in session on Fridays, so that probably means they'll be outta' there at noon on Thursday the 4th.

Hell, there aren't even any real holidays in the month of August!

Look at their "work?" calendar so far this year: 1 1/2 weeks off in Jan; 1 week off in Feb; 1 week off in Mar; 2 weeks off in Apr; 1 week off in Jun; 1 week off in Jul and now this 5 week hiatus.

No wonder the system is broke!

[Thurifer]

4. Already tried

There was a vote on a clean bill to raise the debt ceiling on May 31, 2011. It failed 318-97

[MadHound]

8. Times change,

Situations change.

Expect that their corporate masters will weigh in over the weekend in order to restore sanity. The moderate 'Pugs will thus be forced to cut the Teaparty loose and join with the Dems in passing a clean bill.

[BobbyBoring]

9. Could someone explain how the 14th

can be used in this situation?? I'm lost!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[elocs]

10. Google and search are your friend. You are able to unlose yourself, yourself. n/t

[MadHound]

11. It gives the president the Constitutional backing to raise the debt ceiling alone

Section 4 of the 14th Amendment.
"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned."

Since the president is, as per the Constitution, the one who is responsible for enforcing it, he could unilaterally raise the debt ceiling in order to preserve "the validity of the public debt" and to not allow credit ratings agencies question the public debt.

It would provoke a Constitutional crisis, but a lot of Constitutional scholars think that the President would be on solid ground, and politically speaking, the corporately controlled Supreme Court would have ample motivation to have it pass Constitutional muster, since their corporate masters' asses would be on the line(remember, it is the rich and corporate in this country who actually own most of our debt, not China, not Japan, despite what the wingnuts say).

[BobbyBoring]

17. Thanks

I didn't go far enough. How the hell did we get from equal protection to the debt of the US??

Guess I'll google that too

[Doctor_J]

12. I can't understand why the prez and Pelosi and Reid don't get their story straight

"While george bush was borrowing 4 trillion dollars in 8 years, this same right-wing congress raised the debt ceiling 7 times, to borrow money to spend on foreign wars. Now that the president is trying to save millions of americans from economic disaster, these same reactionaries insist that they're debt conscious. They are partisan hypocrites who are only fooling fox nation"

every day, every time anyone is listening.

[WingDinger]

13. Problem is, the hubbub has created its own reality, and we might be downgraded

just cuz we cant get our shit together, without the Republicans going all delusional. I wouldnt trust lending to delusional people. The Republicans now sell that they started this, and now only draconian cuts will satisfy the attention they have now created.

[MadHound]

15. Not all, not even most 'Pugs are delusional

They are however scared, scared that if they go ahead and raise the debt ceiling, they will get primaried by some Teaparty nutbag.

They need to put their own career aside for the good of the country. If all the moderate 'Pugs joined with the Dems in the House, they could easily pass a clean bill that raises the debt ceiling.

[kenny blankenship]

16. We might be downgraded because S&P is attempting to manipulate this crisis AND the next ELECTION

S&P, Moody's, Fitch are all accomplices of the banking mafia.

They are not neutral impartial observers of anything. They were CENTRAL to the mortgage fraud bubble and are completely corrupt and politicized. None of them have changed a bit - neither shaking themselves up in the wake of their scandal nor being reformed by the government that gives them recognition and authority. But they might still be prosecuted. That gives them a very explicable axe to grind against any Democratic Administration, present or future.

-=-=-=-=-

Standard and Poor’s Should Not Be Able to Play Kingmaker in the 2012 Election

Standard and Poors is evidently meeting with high-stakes gamblers and letting them know where to place their bets as they manipulate the global economy. But they are also playing a much more sinister game. Like a cat toying with a mouse, they are also inserting themselves in the political process and setting themselves up to be kingmaker in the 2012 election.

It appears imminent that the credit ratings agencies will downgrade US debt. It’s completely irrational and unjustifiable, but it’s not a matter of “if” but “when.” And just as the battle over the debt ceiling between Republicans and Democrats was largely consumed with pinning responsibility for any default on the other (“nobody wants to be Newt”), so now the battle seems to have shifted to who will bear the blame for an inevitable credit downgrade.

(snip)

Yet here is S&P’s John Chambers meeting with Pimco, and telling them they favor the Reid plan — information they have not made available to the public. If you read the consent order issued by the Massachusetts Securities Division in June of this year (PDF), that’s exactly the activity that got Goldman Sachs in trouble. Goldman was selectively giving information to “large institutional investors” that it did not make available to the public.

(snip)

I don’t care whether you’re rabidly pro- or anti-Obama, a Republican or a Democrat or an Independent or a Green or none of the above. What S&P and the other CRAs are doing right now is completely illegal and outside the boundaries of their own codes of conduct. They’re acting as Wall Street’s tasers in Shock Doctrine 2.0, and making themselves the key player in determining what happens not only with the 2012 election but with the world’s economic future. They are playing a very dangerous game with the world economy that could have devastating consequences for all of us, regardless of what your partisan identification is.
-=-=-=-

You have to read the whole thing as it's impossible to capture in four paragraphs. The one line synopsis is: S&P is violating current law in feeding its advice to large clients and withholding the same tradeable information from the public, AND the advice has to do with what THEY (S&P) intend to do to the government's credit rating, the economy and the reelection prospects of Barack Obama.

[BobbyBoring]

18. How in the fuck

Do S+P and Moodys have any credibility after their blunders in rating CDOs??

[kenny blankenship]

21. Someone forgot to prosecute them and reform them.

But they still have good housekeeping seal of approval from our government, although they should not.

Rating Agencies Don't Deserve Government Blessing, Tavakoli Says

But according to a confidential report obtained by The Huffington Post, one prominent analyst is saying markets should not be so reliant on the pronouncements of these companies (S&P, Moody's Fitch et al) , which have repeatedly proven themselves to be poor judges of credit quality. The rating agencies, which offered rosy assessments of financial products that later went bust, deserve to have their government seal of approval revoked, argues Janet Tavakoli, president of the Chicago-based consulting firm Tavakoli Structured Finance.

"Either through intention or incompetence the rating agencies lied in the sense that they made false statements that had grave consequences for investors and the global financial markets," Tavakoli says in the report, dated Tuesday.

"The rating agencies do not merit the [ Nationally Recognized Statistical Rating Organization designation ]," or the government stamp that makes ratings a centerpiece of the regulatory structure, Tavakoli says.

The NRSRO designation has been bestowed by the Securities and Exchange Commission upon 10 organizations, giving their ratings what Tavakoli calls an "appearance of being issued from a position of authority."

The Dodd-Frank Act did nothing to clean up the suspected (but obvious) criminal conduct of the CRA ratings agencies like Standard & Poors. A Senate report recommended that the agencies be rated themselves according to the accuracy of their reports. No wonder the CRAs are on the warpath against Democrats. And since they aren't under investigation they are able to fire back at will in public.

[rdking647]

20. we should tell s&p and moodys that

they are no longer "Nationally Recognized Statistical Rating Organizations"

after all they did such a great job rating mortgage bonds.

[damntexdem]

14. And a clean, or dirty, vote in the House is in Boehner's power.

But the 14th option is in Obama's power.

[rdking647]

19. there are other options

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/07/28/balkin.obama.options/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

i like the idea of issuing the trillion dollar coins.