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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:32 AM
Original message
Paul Krugman: What Obama Was Willing to Give Away ("Horrifying")
Edited on Sat Jul-23-11 11:51 AM by Hissyspit
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/what-obama-...

July 23, 2011, 12:07 PM

What Obama Was Willing to Give Away

Jonathan Cohn summarizes what seems to have been in the deal that Boehner walked away from; its horrifying. Above all, the proposed rise in the age of Medicare eligibility was a real betrayal of both Democratic principles and good government.

Lets recall how the health care debate went. Progressive reformers, myself included, would very much have preferred a simple single-payer system Medicare for all. And theres a reason: Medicare has lower costs than private insurance, and its also a much better vehicle for cost control. Also, the simplicity if youre a citizen, youre covered makes it much less likely that people will fall through the cracks.

- snip -

But its quite something else to take people who are currently being covered by a rational single-payer system, and force them back into the inefficient, parasitic world of private insurance. Thats terrible. And its also politically stupid: if you think for a minute that Republicans wouldnt turn right around and run ads about how Obama is taking away your Medicare, youve been living under a rock.

Oh, and of course, Republicans were also trying to undermine health reform; so seniors would find themselves thrown off Medicare but, in many cases, unable to get private insurance either.

MORE


Krugman's Referenced Link: http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-cohn/92539/obama-boehn...

Obama Admits the Obvious: The GOP Is Unreasonable

Jonathan Cohn
July 23, 2011 | 10:21 am

- snip -

Nobody disputes that, except for the revenue part, the administration and Boehner had agreement over virtually everything else. And it was a deal that, like Obamas previous offers, was strikingly tilted towards Republican priorities. Among the provisions Obama to which Obama had said yes, according to a senior administration official, were the following:

Medicare: Raising the eligibility age, imposing higher premiums for upper income beneficiaries, changing the cost-sharing structure, and shifting Medigap insurance in ways that would likely reduce first-dollar coverage. This was to generate about $250 billion in ten-year savings. This was virtually identical to what Boehner offered.

Medicaid: Significant reductions in the federal contribution along with changes in taxes on providers, resulting in lower spending that would likely curb eligibility or benefits. This was to yield about $110 billion in savings. Boehner had sought more: About $140 billion. But thats the kind of gap ongoing negotiation could close.

Social Security: Changing the formula for calculating cost-of-living increases in order to reduce future payouts. The idea was to close the long-term solvency gap by one-third, although it likely would have taken more than just this one reform to produce enough savings for that.

MORE


Amusing Krugman Follow-Up Post:

July 23, 2011, 12:33 PM

My Name Is Legion (Self-indulgent)

Reading some of the comments here and elsewhere, I have to admit that Im impressed by the range of sins I have apparently committed. Im someone who always wants to run bigger deficits AND Im inconsistent because I said deficits were bad under Bush but good under Obama. Im a slavish admirer of Obama AND someone who has had it in for the president ever since the primary, when I kept warning that he wasnt really committed to progressive ideas.

I really do get around.

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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
1. And yet the deal never happened, never was going to happen, and we are STILL going on rumors.
Obama exposed the LIE that Republicans care about reducing the deficit.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. So what are we going to get?
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iwishiwas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. probably some versions take or give a little of same deal Krugman
speaks of. So disheartening that a Dem. President has put our safety living net on the table.
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Doctor Hurt Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. "safety living net"
lol
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iwishiwas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. I coined it as I wrote it. I wanted to include the word living but the
the phase is a tongue twister.
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #24
87. I like it....
....'safety living net' is much better than 'safety dying net' which is where we and our programs are all headed if we don't get a handle on this evil political situation....
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. IMHO, if we had been quiet, The Raw Deal would have gone through, quietly.
So, being outspoken works - no reason to conclude otherwise.

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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. That is the hands down fact.
Always advocate for that which you believe is the right policy. Let the professional politicians do the same.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Absolutely. I don't trust anyone who tells us to be quiet.
They don't have our interests at heart.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!!
Exactly!!!

Keep shooting down those "trial baloons"!!!

:bounce:

:hi:

:kick:
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Doctor Hurt Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. The H in that acronym is for humble
deservedly so.
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #8
94. I agree 100% Maybe my calls had an effect.
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geckosfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #8
111. He had our necks on the chopping block! The only reason the axe did not fall
is that the rethuglicans let greed get the better of sanity.

I can't believe what is being talked about. They are threatening us with, and acclimating us to the reality of poverty and indentured servitude.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
34. This garbage that the president was lying is really ridiculous
He was serious, this was the deal, thank God the Repubs turned it down, although it could get worse because when they throw a temper tantrum he always gives them more.

But please stop being silly. Presidents who lie like that will have no one's trust, I am certain he was serious and was angry only because they turned him down. What will it take for people to fact the fact that he is there to get done what Bush couldn't, sell out the people on SS. And whether you intend to or not, you are helping him.
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #34
70. Well said
Any attempts to pass it off as high stakes chess or trying to bluff the GOP are absurd. He was serious, and that scares the hell out of me.

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UnrepentantLiberal Donating Member (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #70
75. He's an arrogant punk who has far more in common with Republicans
than he'll ever have with liberals.
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HDPaulG Donating Member (221 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #75
107. +
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #75
123. I'm glad someone said it.
Now be prepared to be flamed!!!

:popcorn:
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #34
74. +
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #34
79. +1000% --
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #34
105. It's possible he's fed up. I hope.

I mean, for all his right-of-Reagan conservatism, Conservatives have treated him badly. I hate to say, maybe our best bet now is that he changes his mind due to feeling personally insulted.

I'm not ready to say why he's there, but it seems if he were any type of front man catering to the wishes less visible powers, we wouldn't be seeing this whole spectacle. It wouldn't be necessary for Conservative media to malign him, call him a Nazi and a Socialist at every turn.

No, what were seeing is conservatism running berserk. Obama's one wing of it, and he thinks he's being moderate. The rest have fed such bullshit to their constituency for so long that they are afraid of angering them if they get just a reasonable compromise from someone who is literally to the right of George W. Bush. The Tea Party legislators are as nuts and fanatic as the people who voted for them. Any proposal they give will have no connection to reality because they've too long misinformed themselves about reality.

The rest of the Democrats in Congress, meanwhile, can do nothing without Republicans.

Meanwhile, the business community has said, in no uncertain terms, default would be a catastrophe. The Conservatives aren't listening.

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Hand_With_Eyes Donating Member (197 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
56. Obama offered the psycopathic GOP our heads on a silver platter
Obama is willing to throw America under the bus. The GOP didn't take it because they believe that if they hold out til the bitter end, Obama will hand them 99% of what they want instead of the 'paltry' 85% that he tried to hand them.

In the world of the blind the one eyed man is king.
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pasto76 Donating Member (835 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
67. I think you are spot on here. Obama has polarized this issue into Pubs being immutable
I think we all knew this already. My opinion is that they have done an excellent job of showcasing this to America.
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MNBrewer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
69. Are you saying that Obama wasn't negotiating in good faith?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
77. How could selling out Social Security and Medicare reduce the deficit -- ?
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
101. LOL! You're kidding?
You are say Obama exposed the Republicans lies yet fail to mention Obama's lies....Obama's lies are far worse. We knew the cons wanted to do this , what we didn't know is that Obama is quite willing to throw the elderly and then sick into the streets to fend for themselves....
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
113. i know a good psychiatrist that can help you with....
....your obamaphilia.

ps: all their feeding us is rumors and hints and speculation, except the catfood commission whose intent is clear.

if you don't see the intent, you're blind.
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Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
114. People are reacting to supposition and freaking out.
Lawrence O'Donnel said the president is doing this just as a means to an end wit the republicans. I don't believe he would have let such a deal go through. He knows he would be hung on a stake by the seniors in this country, both parties.

I believe he trying to reason with a 2 year old. It can't be done. There has to be another way. I think he should use the bully pulpit and let the American people know exactly what is going on.
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mother earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
3. K & R, for Obama to even "consider" these as credible
Edited on Sat Jul-23-11 11:49 AM by mother earth
ways to correct deficits and revenues is beyond comprehension. How much and for how long does he get a free pass on betrayal? When somebody tells you who they are believe them the first time. There's no grand chess game. His idea of hope and change is reaganomics & we know that was a complete and utter failure....yet he certainly follows in the footsteps of failures of BushCo too, or perhaps these are victories??? Depends on perspective, but for me, coming from the perspective of expecting those we elect to focus on the needs of "we, the people" this is grand failure, this is colossal betrayal.

To say he's been a great disappointment to the base is putting it mildly. There needs to be a primary challenger, I'm sorry to say, as a lifelong Dem, I'm very sorry to feel this way, but I do.

What of rescinding extension of the Bush tax cuts, and ending the two wars that are bleeding us from the inside out, Medicare for all, and JOBS???
That we can easily come up with ways to answer to cutting the deficit without breaking a sweat, yet we are bargaining with those who brought us this chaos.
It's mind boggling. This is betrayal on a new level.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
51. Well stated, mother earth. nt
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
80. +1000% -- and PRIMARY challenger -- !! Sad that it had to reach this late point ... !!!
THIS is the discussion we should have been having the day Obama eloped into the

White House with Koch Bros/DLC Rahm Emmanuel -- and picked his Wall Street team

to solve the problems they created --!!

It's been a farce from the very beginning -- !!

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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
104. The grand chess game being played is being played by the big
boys; 0 is just a willing whore, just like all the rest of the cons. Judas goat comes to mind.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
4. K&R Very important post.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
5. This was like JFK threatening to nuke NYC if the Russians invaded W Berlin. Bad symbolic politics.
Bad tactics. Worse symbolism. All he managed to do is to de-brand the Democratic Party as the party that will protect SS and Medicare.

Simply appallingly bad politics. This move by Obama was either incompetent or malicious.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
29. Sums it up for me.
He decided the Party's brand was his to pawn.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
6. Interesting How Those Whose Financial Futures Are Secure
Have such a generous hand when giving away ours
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
7. In return for fuckin' what?
I hear this default will be bad. It is not giving things away unless there is no opposing force. We apparently need the ceiling raised and it will not be raised. Then those "cuts" (of whatever they consist, which here is exaggerated to be sure) will not matter much anyway.

there is something wrong with people who look at only one side of a reality.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. They won't matter to whom? I take it you're not on Social Securiy.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Or Medicaid, which covers many who will never have another
choice. The hubris and coldness continues to stun me. The least among us don't matter much.
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kelly1mm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. You are right. Even here on DU, it is the "middle class", or, when generous,
the "working class" that gets the attention/concern/empathy. Thanks for bringing up the poor. Although frustrating at times, I miss bobolink at times like this.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
28. Why is is hubris and cold and mean to admit Republicans are
a majority in Congress and that Boner isn't going to allow the debt ceiling to be raised without some budget cuts of some kind?

Maybe you should ask the people who voted in the republican bastards (or stayed home to teach the Democrats a lesson).
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. Democratic voters did not stay home.
Edited on Sat Jul-23-11 12:40 PM by EFerrari
Independents broke for the Republicans because Obama ignored unemployment. He's still ignoring it.

And a Republican majority in Congress has nada to do with offering them our social programs in this fake crisis. Like De Fazio said, first Obama extends the Bush tax cuts and creates a debt crisis. Now, he wants to cut the big three to solve the crisis he created.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. Now that is really going out of you way to find a way to blame
a Democratic President. Rather than a Republican Congress.

And it's not related to the question: the question is, is this default going to be worse than the budget cuts in question.

Obama did not extend the Bush tax cuts alone. He also had the Republican congress for that. He did not want to do it and did it to get more unemployment benefits. Would it have been OK to do without the unemployment benefit extension then? Just like it's OK now to go into default rather than make any cuts whatsoever?

Please start making sense.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. I'm quoting De Fazio.
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WVRICK13 Donating Member (930 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #42
109. I Guess I Fail To See
how decreasing revenue while increasing spending was a good idea. Maybe he should have made the Republicans own the cuts to unemployment benefits. Then America would know what is really happening and we would not be negotiating on the debt ceiling. Constant negotiations have only shown the Republicans that our President is weak.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #28
81. Republicans are a majority? No....We have the Senate ... and we have the Presidency ... allegedly!!
Edited on Sat Jul-23-11 09:37 PM by defendandprotect
You really think that W Bush, if he had the Prez and the Senate would have been

letting Pelosi or Dems push him around? ROFL -- if it wasn't so sad!!


Voters stayed home because Obama betrayed the nation on universal health care --

did you miss that one?


80% of the public wants an end to these wars --

76% and more of Americans want MEDICARE FOR ALL --

Obama is ignoring the will of the people to serve the interests of elites/corportism --

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Taft_Bathtub Donating Member (197 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #28
96. Republicans only have the House
You know there's another chamber, right?

Oh I forgot, you're still believing the 'helpless Obama vs. evil republican' myth.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #28
116. You do know that Dems control the Senate, right?
:freak:
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
26. So you're saying this default will have no effect?
Edited on Sat Jul-23-11 12:31 PM by treestar
I thought it was going to create so much disaster that the economy could collapse, which would really hurt SS and Medicare a lot worse, presumably.

Why do you make it personal? What does it matter whether I am on it or not? If not now, I will we one day if I live long enough. There are people on it who are Republicans, so being on it does not affect political opinions.

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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. Polly want a cracker?
Parroting RW scare points on DU is just dumb.

So according to you. It's okay for seniors and poor people to take the hit so that business owners and the upper middle class don't suffer from republican tricks?
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. WTF?
You do realize there are Republicans in Congress, do you not? They have a majority.

Do you think this default will have no negative effect, then? Supposedly we'd be making these cuts to get the debt ceiling raised so we don't go into default, which presumably, would be worse.

Why is recognizing this reality so wrong?



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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #40
58. Oh noes. Teh mean old publicans gonna get us.
Recognizing is one thing. Using it as an excuse to dismantle the framework of the Democratic legacy is another.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. Huh? This is about one thing, needing the debt ceiling raised
In 2011. With a Republican Congress - thanks 2010 voters. :sarcasm:

So what will be the effect of the default? Would it be better to allow that to happen then?

And how deep are the cuts proposed? How does that balance with the default results? "Dismantling the Democratic legacy" is a ridiculous, exaggerated distortion.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. Huh? One thing?
Is your personal happiness the only thing that matters. Cutting SS has nothing to do with the budget or the debt or the debt ceiling. Making deals that cost you nothing, that won't hurt you while starving thousand and letting thousands die is cowardly. Being president and trying to use this to get to some image you have of yourself as a grand deal maker is wrong. Letting or helping the republicans frame this debate around their talking points and trying to convince people that you have no choice is almost criminal.

You don't seem to mind the cuts as long as they don't touch you. You don't seem to mind other's pain, just so long as you don't have to suffer it.

The stupid, senseless, shameful thing here was being so out of it, so stupid, so inept that the republicans got to play us this way.

If you think that the only possible thing to do to avoid the debt ceiling crisis is to toss a few elderly bodies on the bonfire, you have a very limited scope. This should have been a slam dunk. There was no need to bring up SS and Medicare. None. The assholes that pay for the republican party don't want a credit collapse. Hell. Even gomer norquist was begging for a tax increase instead. But our president wouldn't have it. No. He had to make a big old deal to appear like the grand negotiator. So he offered up some old people and the poor.

Study history. Study politics. Learn what the debt ceiling is. Learn how is has been used in the past. Don't fall for every RW talking point you hear.
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #62
92. THIS nt
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #62
98. Thank you! +1000000
Edited on Sat Jul-23-11 10:42 PM by woo me with science
Good god.
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #61
91. Poor people often don't vote.
It isn't necessarily because they like the Republicans. The world is not as black and white as you depict it to be.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #26
38. Why do you want so badly to appease the Republicans?? nm
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #26
41. The default will be a boom to those banks hording money. Is that who you favor? It wont hurt the
homeless.
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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
45. As predicted.
Moving to the "he had to do it to try to avoid default" rationalization.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #45
59. Only because they believe the president
to be a poor, put-upon weakling without any skills or powers.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
47. Do you support any cuts to SS?
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
89. Implying it's either/or.
Grow up.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
97. And THANK GOD IT PASSED too ...
...sarcasm thingy for anyone who thinks I'm serious.
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rucognizant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
100. will not matter much?????????
Oh it will Be BAD! I have $70. for the next 11 days until SS payday Aug 3. My car tank is almost empty. My friend had to borrow $10. from her son to get through the next 11 days.............I am going to have a Gallery opening on a very frayed shoestring, Thurs, because after 2 dead summer seasons, for whatever reason...people are buying from the local art gallerys this year, & several have tried to stop by mine. My sign isn't even out.
Everything I have to buy has doubled................my incom has not gone up one penny for 3 years..............I am not a consumer just a survivor. The lack of income trickles ( rushes) down to all the local small businesses, younger people who are trying to earn their way.......I can't support them any more, I just buy the bare necessities.............
That's just PLAIN STUPID, BAD ECONOMICS! Approx 65% of the people in town are in my position......................How is THAT building a strong AMerica???????
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
9. And rest assured that the Repukes will take him up on it next time
I hope you're enjoying the beginning of the end of our party (the one of FDR, HST, JFK, LBJ).
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
12. I still fail to see how it's a "deal" and why it needs to be done. Social programs
aren't what's contributing to the deficit. Obama needs to make that simple truth clear. And he wants to trade our social safety net-which helps fuel our economy- for a POSSIBLE end to the Bush Tax cuts WHEN THEY WERE ALREADY SET TO EXPIRE IN A YEAR. How is this a "deal"? It's blackmail, nothing less.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
17. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
18. Taking away granny's wheelchair to save Richy's golden parachute.
A parachute that might be taxed..someday..if we have the votes..if the Republicans agree...if it doesn't snow in Siberia.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
22. I think I finally figured out who Obama is.
The cool cucumber who makes nice speeches and promised change is also cold and calculating. He measures all issues intellectually and there seems to be no room for compassion in his calculations. Even though Bill Clinton gave into much right wing pressure, he always had the least of people in mind when he made policy. Somehow I prefer a President who is human enough to fall from grace by getting blow jobs in the Oval Office to this.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Obama brags about how little he listens to his supporters.
It's chilling when you put it together with the power he has. Yesterday he was boasting about how much he was willing to give the Republicans as if it was some kind of virtue. I hope he doesn't get a second term.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. It's either him or another GWB. We're doomed. n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. I think Jeb is planning on 2016. The next six years are going to be
very bad for our people. Nothing being done to help them with jobs or to protect them from predatory lenders and both Democrats and Republicans trying to pick their pockets of the little they still have left. It's unreal.
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Fuddnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 01:25 PM
Original message
I think they'll draft Jeb in 2012.
He's the really dangerous Bush.

Obama needs to separate himself from the pack. If the repukes field a sane (read Jeb) candidate, they win.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
55. It's possible. And I agree, he is dangerous. n/t
:(
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
86. Why would they take that chance, when Obama is performing so well for them?
Bush never got this far with Social Security and Medicare --

Remember when people were upset with Bush for wiretapping and torture and wars?

When voters put party over principles they're going to have a rude awakening!!

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WVRICK13 Donating Member (930 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #86
110. The Republicans
had a harder time of controlling the agenda when Bush was President because the Democrats were more vocal. Now we have become lemmings, refusing to criticize the Democratic President. Being screwed is being screwed, no matter who is crewing you.
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Flubadubya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #110
122. Exactly, and you can't rape the willing...
It is so ironic that the folks on DU who cry out the loudest that criticism of the President will cause us to end up with a Republican administration next time, are actually the ones who are most likely to help cause it.

If the President would support and implement Democratic principles, there would be no criticism at all.

Just sayin' :shrug:
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #27
93. Lookin like it. nt
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #27
103. When Obama was running I used to think he was smarter then bush
now I know he's just more articulate....he and GWB are cut from the same mold. Screw the people.
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Fuddnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #25
49. Well, he is surrounded by his Wall Street supporters.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #22
33. Read this to find out who Obama is.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

We owe a debt to Madfloridian for this digging.
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theFrankFactor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #33
44. Curious lack of "I Got This" comments over on that thread. LOL!
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #44
60. They know which threads to not touch.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #33
64. +!!!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #33
85. Nice work by Madfloridian ... but ghastly "work" by Obama ...
"Obama: Just remember, as we move forward, that there are real consequences to the work that is being done here. There are people in places like Decatur, Illinois, or Galesburg,Illinois, who have seen their jobs eliminated. They have lost their health care. They have lost their retirement security. They don't have a clear sense of how their children will succeed in the same way that they succeeded. They believe that this may be the first generation in which their children do worse than they do. Some of that, then, will end up manifesting itself in the sort of nativist sentiment, protectionism, and anti-immigration sentiment that we are debating here in Washington. So there are real consequences to the work that is being done here. This is not a bloodless process."


Obama considers stealing from citizens "work" -- ?

Rather, nationalism and anti-immigration hatreds are taught by the right to polarize the nation.


This is simply unregulated capitalism which is merely organized crime --



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TK421 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #33
120. that is creepy n/t
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #22
53. Also, when the PTB came to Clinton and asked them
For a lil teeny tiny war over in Iraq, not a big deal really, just this one lil teeny tiny war, he said emphatically, "No!"

And six weeks later, every Talking Head in the nation was blathering on about Bill and Monica.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
83. Generally agree ....
but remember that Clinton gave us NAFTA and the other trade agreeements --

which Koch Bros were strongly after --

and Clinton ended 60 years of welfare guarantees -- with a "nod" from Al Gore - !!!


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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #22
102. I agree completely.
Obama cares about Obama and no one else......he wants to make history and hre'll do it dancing on the bodies of the elderly and the poor...
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
23. Was? Or, is it "still"?
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
31. So THOSE are the Austerity Peas,
Targeting the most vulnerable among us
to pay for extending the tax cuts for the RICH
and several unnecessary wars.

CAN YOU HEAR ME YET?


Who will STAND and FIGHT for THIS American Majority?
You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.


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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
35. K & R and bookmarked, Hissyspit, and thank you.
The ongoing howls of denial and attempted revisionism is really going to be something.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
37. R&K
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
39. If this was the deal,
"Among the provisions Obama to which Obama had said yes, according to a senior administration official, were the following:"

...I'm curious as to why an anonymous senior administration official would be releasing it now?

Why doesn't it include specifics about the revenue increases? Also missing is the long rumored raising the retirement age.

Still, if this is what the President is negotiating, the negotiations continue. If Boehner agrees to a deal, it should look close to this report.

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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. This is the end game. If the people dont object soon, we will be beyond the tipping point. nm
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. We could try to organize a day of action here .
A way for people to do their contacts again and to enlist their networks / hook up with ongoing efforts.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. I am up for it. I am willing to try to use the system, but feel it wont do much. We are merely
pushing back the inevitable. They are too strong for us to defeat with mere emails and phone calls.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. That's likely true but imo, it's still important to show up.
Maybe as the weekend progresses, we can get a sense of the better day. :hi:
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theFrankFactor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #39
63. Don't Worry Pro... Obama's "Got This" LOL!
Edited on Sat Jul-23-11 04:40 PM by theFrankFactor
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #63
72. .
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
52. REC. REC. REC. REC. nt
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
57. It's not horrifying. You just weren't listening during the campaign...
...when he said he would negotiate away Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid to Karl Rove and Grover Norquist.
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Hotler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
65. Obama Admits the Obvious: The GOP Is Unreasonable
You just now realizing this Mr. President? Sad. Just sad.
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cottonseed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
66. Krugman's bonus is based on clicks. Headlines and an outrageous premise brings them in.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
68. It is quite obvious that SS and medicare were offered to prove
a point. Point being, they do not intend to negotiate in good faith nor do they believe in the shared sacrifice of their campaign donors. IOW, fuck "the people."
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
71. K&R n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
73. Pelosi on raising Medicare eligibility age: "That's not part of what we're talking about"
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #73
115. The president is not listening to Reid and Pelosi however
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WiffenPoof Donating Member (676 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
76. The New Deal...
...has become the Raw Deal.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
78. Thank you for the info -- as horrific as it is ... the final betrayal of Democratic voters -- !!!
Edited on Sat Jul-23-11 09:25 PM by defendandprotect
Medicare: Raising the eligibility age, imposing higher premiums for upper income beneficiaries, changing the cost-sharing structure, and shifting Medigap insurance in ways that would likely reduce first-dollar coverage. This was to generate about $250 billion in ten-year savings. This was virtually identical to what Boehner offered.

Medicaid: Significant reductions in the federal contribution along with changes in taxes on providers, resulting in lower spending that would likely curb eligibility or benefits. This was to yield about $110 billion in savings. Boehner had sought more: About $140 billion. But thats the kind of gap ongoing negotiation could close.

Social Security: Changing the formula for calculating cost-of-living increases in order to reduce future payouts. The idea was to close the long-term solvency gap by one-third, although it likely would have taken more than just this one reform to produce enough savings for that.


I could understand that the Democratic Party was once a party which could be trusted --

but we've had 20 years of Koch Bros/DLC influence over the party, infiltrating and influencing

the party, its agenda -- and its candidates, including its presidential candidates.


We have to figure out what to do about Obama before he does any more damage, imo --

And get busy thinking of 2012 and a truly liberal candidate --

And we need to find out what's left of the Democratic Party after Koch Bros 20 years there --

Is there anything worth saving or is it a rotting corpse?



:hi:
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
82. "according to a senior administration official"
really ?
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TatonkaJames Donating Member (502 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
84. It's all a show, simple as that
Edited on Sat Jul-23-11 09:46 PM by TatonkaJames
A last minute "Breaking News" interruption will come on the tube hours before the so called "deadline of Debtageddon"
so they look like they rode in on white horses to save the day.

This should have been a one page debt raising legislation as it has been in the past, but with Republicans playing chess,
trying to figure 7 moves ahead of the Dem's, saying no to everything, it's all based on having ammunition and winning in 2012.

If I were President, I would have been on TV every day, using my bully pulpit to show what arses the Repubs are.
I'd ask the American people to call their reps, and after a couple of weeks, with 80% of Americans, not R's or D's, Americans
saying not to touch the Small Three, this might have been settled long ago. But it's Washington, and they are the land of playing games.

This is all fear mongering. If they did what is obvious, cut defense, cut pork, cut Congress and Senate pay and let them buy their own health insurance,
stop the wars, aid to every nation that is mostly siphoned off to the criminals, legalize drugs for revenue and control who is on them and help them get clean,
Stop corporate welfare, make it illegal for off shore accounts for private citizens and corporations, WE'D HAVE MORE THAN ENOUGH TO PAY FOR EVERYTHING WE NEED.

But that wouldn't go along with their plan to dominate and control the populace.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #84
88. UNEMPLOYMENT SHOULD BE OBAMA'S ISSUE ... AND THE GOP ISSUE ... JOBS!!!
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TatonkaJames Donating Member (502 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #88
90. Amen Brother
While they're posturing for 2012, they don't give a shite about us. they send aid to something like over 100 countries
but can't create a job here ? Record profits from corps in each of the first two quarters and no jobs ? Tells you who owns
and runs this government.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #88
95. It's so obvious. If they don't get it, they don't want to. n/t
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
99. Strong K&R We have a Trojan horse in the White House.
Time to take our party back.
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Muddy Waters Guitars Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
106. Obama was never going to accept such a deal- he was showing up how extremist the Republicans are
Like other Democrats in-the-know, Obama clearly understood that the GOP has become so radicalized by Grover Norquist and the Tea Partiers, that they wouldn't accept any deal, at all. A large portion of the House GOP are like the pre-Civil War Fire-Eaters- they genuinely want a default, and with Norquist's extremism, they have the power over the party. They wouldn't accept even slight revenue increases, the cuts would never go deep enough (they'd want to eliminate agencies like the FDA and SEC, which the public would never accept), plus they'd demand even more outrageous additions to the military-industrial complex's budget.

By pretending as though he was ready to accept even the GOP's most extreme demands, he was presenting a popular picture of a compromiser and a problem-solver to the American public at large- while knowing that the GOP would reject it anyway, thus showing how utterly extreme and delusional the Republicans have become.

This is what Paul Krugman just doesn't get. He's a wonderful advocate for Americans in general, but he's a poor student of history and politics. If he would study his history more, he'd realize that Obama is simply working straight from Abraham Lincoln's playbook. Acting like a compromiser, giving a show of conciliation, but ultimately letting the radical reactionary conservatives strangle themselves.
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #106
119. There's the thing: Was it Lincoln's playbook... or Neville Chamberlain's?
Edited on Sun Jul-24-11 12:18 PM by JHB
Note that by the time Lincoln took office, seven states had already seceded (South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas), and the rest did so after Fort Sumter, so they were all gone within two months of his taking office. They'd already gone over the cliff by the time he was in a position to do anything effective.

I'll believe this was a master-stroke to show the extremism of the Republicans if he spends the next few months continually bludgeoning them with it. One speech won't do it; a one-shot "showing" won't work (it hasn't so far, and Republicans have been showing this for decades).

He has to go on the attack actively repeatedly confront the Republicans with their hypocrisy, intransigence, and Soviet-grade adherence to The Party Line. Or at least not undercut others who will push the Republicans hard on these, allowing him to play "good cop".

In other words this has to be a turning point in how he deals with Republicans (and how he treats "centrists" and "the left"). But either-way, it's no "master stroke". Republican obstructionism has been in place long before he even went to Washington as a senator, and they telegraphed that they'd only make it worse once he got to the White House. A "master" would have been roping these dopes years ago.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #119
121. Would you like to bet on which way he's going to fall?
:eyes:
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #121
124. Let's just say I have an opinion on that, and I'd like for him to prove me wrong...
...but he's already passed up numerous chances to do so, and I don't expect him to do anything different now.
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WVRICK13 Donating Member (930 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 06:32 AM
Response to Original message
108. I Voted For Obama
but I hope there is a credible Primary challenge. This has gone beyond reason.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
112. Why does Dr. Krugman use the verb "was"?
Obama still IS willing to give it away, and WILL give it away. Does anyone think he's going to suddenly retract his offer??? Has he given any indication that he's going to become a Dem all of a sudden?
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area51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #112
117. +1 n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
118. Deleted message
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