Gang of Six Plan details: Check out suggested corporate tax changes:

[cyberpj]

snip-
The $500 billion in cuts would come from a range of sources, including shifting to a new consumer price index to make cost-of-living adjustments to Social Security. The plan would impose statutory spending caps through 2015, freeze congressional pay and sell unused federal property.

To enact a comprehensive deficit plan, the group calls for congressional committees to report legislation within six months that would “deliver real deficit savings in entitlement programs over 10 years,” the plan says.

It calls on the Finance Committee to permanently reform or replace Medicare’s Sustainable Growth Rate - an outdated formula aimed at determining the amount to reimburse doctors for treating Medicare patients - by $298 billion.

The Finance Committee would be instructed to deliver “real deficit savings” through simplifying the tax code and raise as much as $1 trillion. It would do this by establishing three tax brackets with rates of 8-12 percent, 14-22 percent and 23-29 percent. It would permanently repeal the $1.7 trillion Alternative Minimum Tax. And it calls for establishing a single corporate tax rate, between 23 percent and 29 percent, and to move to a competitive territorial tax system."


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/59345.html

[WinkyDink]

1. new consumer price index to make cost-of-living adjustments to Social Security. = CUTS.

[cyberpj]

3. I've had no SS cost of living increase for at least 2, maybe 3 years.

I was just going to look up 'consumer price index' for details.

[jtown1123]

5. Chained CPI will be worse than the formula they use now.

[cyberpj]

40. BTW, if you didn't know them, here are the members of the 'Gang':

They are called the Gang of Six:
Democrats
Dick Durbin of Illinois,
Kent Conrad of North Dakota, and
Mark Warner of Virginia
and
Republicans
Tom Coburn of Oklahoma,
Saxby Chambliss of Georgia, and
Mike Crapo of Idaho.

[jtown1123]

4. Yep. This is a major shit sandwich. A few paltry corporate tax increases, massive SS cuts.

[kath]

27. and the CPI they've been using ALREADY fucks people over enough, since it grossly underestimates

inflation. The chained CPI makes the screw job even worse.
Read somewhere that if they'd been using a realistic measure of inflation the past couple of decades, SS recipients would be getting about TWICE what they're getting now. But that's not enough for TPTB - now they need to screw old people even more.

I hate these fuckers.

[banned from Kos]

41. Inflation is dead for years. Crude oil $98/bbl vs $147 highs in 2008.

All food items were higher in 2007-08 than now (except coffee). Real interest rates are near all-time lows.

Home prices are still moribund. Luxury items might be higher but that is about it.

The frozen COLA reflects this reality.

[tammywammy]

2. Interesting, appeal the AMT. n/t

[Dawgs]

6. No thanks.

This might be the final straw for me if Democrats support it.

[slipslidingaway]

7. knr - snip ...

"Coburn left the group in May but suddenly rejoined after the group added $115 billion in additional health care cuts and included the provision allowing senators to circumvent the stalled committees..."

[librechik]

8. if it's a chained CPI we are fucked

[cyberpj]

11. Article doesn't say the word "chained". This current chart shows constant increase:

Maybe we should wait for details.

Scroll down page to see chart from 2000 to 2011:

http://www.fintrend.com/inflation/Consumer_Price_Index/CurrentCPI.asp

[jtown1123]

13. Yes, let's wait until we get fucked over...it's not so bad! The article said CPI "changes" which

mean cuts...hello! What, do you think they are increasing the COLA?

[HappyMe]

17. Wait for details? That would be sensible!

Can't have that.

[jtown1123]

19. Well, we know how this group thinks and we've seen the fiscal commission recs

so it's fairly obvious what we have here...also read the WaPo article, there are "significant reductions" to Medicare, so am I allowed to call this shit hole plan for what it is??? http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/gang-of-six-budget-cutting-plan-gains-momentum-in-senate/2011/07/19/gIQANkdzNI_story_1.html

[Abq_Sarah]

21. It IS the chained CPI

The Hill published the outline they received:

http://thehill.com/images/stories/gangofsix_plan.pdf

[jtown1123]

25. Thanks. I clearly wouldn't have mentioned it, if it weren't true!

[dana_b]

31. see reply #21

we are fucked.

[W_HAMILTON]

9. People need to get this straight:

Short of enacting NEGATIVE corporate income tax rates, there is no corporate income tax rate that will allow our country to compete with a country like China where you can pay workers $0.65/hour to do a job that would cost you $7.00+/hour here.

Lowering corporate income tax rates is just buying into the false narrative that income taxes are the reason why companies are moving jobs overseas. Same goes for the false narrative about regulation. Regulation is much stricter in China and the business environment is more unpredictable, yet businesses still flock there -- not because of low tax rates, not because of regulation -- it's because of cheap wages.

[kenny blankenship]

22. China also sweetens deals with incentives - confiscating land & basically gifting it to corporations

Also they pay bribes to CEOs. There is no way the USA (or any future version of it that you would recognize) can match China's "business friendliness".Innovation and education won't save our economy and tax giveaways and standard of living destruction won't either. Competing with China for factory locations is a non-starter for the reasons of Chinese wages which you gave (they still have a BILLION peasants living in the interior who have yet to be exploited, which is a billion more people than live in the whole USA), and also because of the sheer corruption of China's state-run crony capitalism.

If the USA successfully competed with China for manufacturing it would have to convert itself into a Medieval shithole of unchecked crony capitalists ruling with tanks and whips over hordes of rightless serfs. I can see Republicans and Conservadems salivating at the prospect, but the majority of US citizens stand to suffer horribly under this Must-Compete-With-China direction. The Democratic Party MUST oppose this or else sink into a well-deserved oblivion.

[IndyPragmatist]

37. For unskilled labor you are correct, but not skilled

Look at Germany. They stopped trying to subsidize unskilled labor decades ago, and now their manufacturing sector is filled with workers that have far greater skills than Chinese laborers (and Americans for that matter). China will catch up in wages...it may take a few decades, but they will lose the massive advantage they have in labor costs over time.

We need to start working towards manufacturing that we can compete with. Part of that means not trying to convince every high school graduate that they need to go in to a 4 year university and pile up debt while they decide which major to choose. Let's put more emphasis on skilled trades that won't be matched by China and Mexico for decades instead of jobs that can be done by nearly every adult on this planet.

[kick-ass-bob]

10. Why would you sell property in the best buyers market in history?

Do we want to lose as much money as possible?

[n2doc]

18. Of course. The oligarchs don't want to pay full price n/t

[pscot]

12. Nothing about our wars, our 1000

overseas military bases or the billions being spent groping air travelers and spying on us in the name of national security.

[electropop]

16. The cost of running an empire is huge.

But without the empire, we would just be another wealthy country like Germany, Japan, or Canada... Only corrupt like Nigeria...

[n2doc]

14. I see the rich will have their taxes reduced yet again

top rate of "23-29%" Woo hoo. The only way to do that AND bring in money is to raise the taxes on the bottom 90%.

[Shandris]

24. Is there NOTHING we will refuse to give the oligarchs? n/t

[Octafish]

15. Hey,Obama! Pruneface cut Corporate Taxes from 50% to 28% and the country's never been the same...

...which was the point: The rich got richer and the poor got poorer and the middle disappeared.

A dream picture, starring Red Ink Ronnie.

[joeybee12]

20. The Koch brothers are touching themselves over this...nt

[Mojambo]

23. What a fucking DISASTER of a plan. n/t

[marions ghost]

26. I need 'Gang of 6 Plan for Dummies'

:scared: Is this as bad as I think? (not a whiz at economics)... I DO get that the basic premise of using domestic social programs to balance the budget, reduce the deficit, while no tax increase on the rich/corp or decrease in military spending is wrong. But what does this proposal really mean? is it really a capitulation to the Republicans? Is three tax brackets better? What does a single corporate tax rate mean? What is a competitive territorial tax system? Is there anything positive in this at all?
:dilemma: What to write to congress critters?

[jtown1123]

29. It's very bad. Here are some key snippets

It lowers tax rates for the wealthy, while getting rid of tax deductions that middle class Americans rely on, forces fast track Social Security changes, cuts Medicare and Medicaid. That's what you need.

[marions ghost]

34. Thank you.

Bad :thumbsdown:

Big :thumbsdown:

[jtown1123]

30. Oh and it cuts Social Security off the bat using Chained CPI

[marions ghost]

32. Thanks. I looked up "chained" CPI

and found this article that explains it pretty well:

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/13/business/la-fi-hiltzik-20110713

"Basing Social Security cost-of-living increases on the chained consumer price index, which presumes people will trade down to cheaper goods as costs rise, would force elderly people on fixed incomes to forgo essentials."

[jtown1123]

35. Yes. It also compounds and gets worse each year.

[marions ghost]

36. Greeaaatttt

So every year you can look forward to being worse off. Nice.

[wysimdnwyg]

28. "Overall, the group claims it would result in a $1.5 trillion net tax decrease."

How in the hell is a net tax decrease supposed to help close the deficit???

[dana_b]

33. magic math??

somewhere in their fucked up minds it makes sense.

[saras]

38. Sounds like a plan - a teabagger plan

Change the CPI to cut Social Security
Impose spending caps (with a supermajority requirement) so no one can fix anything until right before the NEXT election.
Sell off public property (if it's unused, that's bad management, not surplus property).
Require plans to cut social programs in the future even more than this plan does.
Cut the amount paid to doctors.
Lowering taxes for the upper classes.
Restoring systemic loopholes (the alternative minimum, even though it didn't work well)
Pathetically low corporate taxes, incompatible with historical success.

And a lot of hot air and badly worded propaganda - "real deficit savings"...

you could make it worse, I suppose. You could give corporations no tax burden at all, or you could require the rape of random civilians, or you could outlaw coherent speech...

but basically everything about it moves in the wrong direction, just to larger or smaller degrees than expected. And the fact that one ore two minor elements may become only a little worse, we're supposed to celebrate it.

[xchrom]

39. Recommend