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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 07:42 PM
Original message
No disrespect intended, but is President Obama
still on the liberals' side? How much is he going to concede to the Pugs at the end of the budget talks? How many millionaires and billionaires are going to get taxed as a result of these talks? Will the Koch brothers ever be exposed as greedy assholes? Will Obama be considered a DINO? Or do Dems finally realize that they are on their own, as far as the presidency is concerned?

I'm filled with such revulsion watching all this go down, filled with skepticism about how much farther Obama is leading the country into the realm of the right wing, instead of standing up for the liberal policies he ran on.

I know, far better than a lot of people, that some compromises have had to be made, but this is beyond the pale. We are losing rights, jobs and hope, with the current administration merely echoing the previous, highly corrupt one, and in some places, at some times, it has gotten almost impossible to distinguish one from the other.

How can we survive without some wins for the people of this country--those who can't afford to buy politicians? Are we any better than those in countries where authoritarian rule is the norm? Are we not headed for a country ruled by religious extremists and the rich?

When does it end? When will this country be ruled in earnest by people who actually want to bring forth the best nation possible, with equality for all?
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. i'm really afraid of what's happening in
this country.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. It's being hollowed out and the crazy politician counts seems to be
going up and up. Some of these republican presidential hopefuls are just clearly off their rocker.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. I've wondered the same and
I'm not trying to bash Obama at all. I am just wondering. It seems to me the republicans keep getting emboldened. I know democrats so beside themselves with all of this they won't even bother to listen to him anymore and have lost respect. That is not a good sign.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. can I say it? I TOLD YOU SO
anyone paying attention during Obama's campaing should NOT BE SURPRISED
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. I know - really...
Remember this -

"SHUSHING THE BABY BOOMERS" January 21, 2007 NY Times

"The time has come, Senator Barack Obama says, for the baby boomers to get over themselves."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/21/weekinreview/21broder...

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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Remember that bit about the "excesses" of the 60s and 70s?
That should have been a clue to anyone with more than two functioning neurons.

And then there was the whole hug-the-homophobes primary strategy.

And then there was the decision to make the DLC's chief economist, Austan Goolsbee, his campaign's top economist.

There were plenty of signs, and plenty of people here saw them, though few of those people are still around, interestingly enough.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. the clues were all there
but people - oh, and SO MANY DUERS who should have known better, FELL FOR IT
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. Yes you can...
you were right. I got caught up in hope and change, which was easy to do given all we had gone through w/Bush, Cheney and company.

Never again.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. aw, I take no real satisfaction
it all completely sucks :(

I remember the chill I felt when I realized they were gonna make my piece of shit governor president. I also remember feeling some chills when I read Obama's speeches (yes, READ them - so many people were swayed by how WELL he gave a speech they paid no real attention to WHAT HE WAS SAYING)- I just knew he was not what people thought he was - I remember telling Ms Peggy no I did NOT think he was IT :(
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. I wrote just before the 2008
on the topic, and how my vote (in the primary) was for Hillary, which saw a lot of attacks on me as a result. But I think that Obama has gone amazingly farther to the right of center than even I could have conceived. Campaign "promises" are rhetoric, and nothing more.

I'm glad we elected someone whose IQ is at least sufficiently high that we no longer have to worry about the president being as stupid as shit, but it doesn't seem to make any difference. We all thought we were electing someone who could deliver us from the evil on the right, but it didn't happen, and all we can do is drop our jaw on to the sequence of events happening.

There is a certain finality in my mind about how far we haven't come, and how much farther we can't go.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. Now now let's not get excited
I mean he's playing chess here...three dimensional chess with ninja moves...I wouldn't be surprised if by the time the negotiations are over we all get Monorails! And ponies! You're not against ponies are you?
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LonePirate Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
6. Obama is closer on the political spectrum to Michelle Bachmann than he is to Bernie Sanders.
Obama is a DINO at best.
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Big Blue Marble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. At this point calling him a DINO
Edited on Mon Jul-11-11 08:25 PM by Big Blue Marble
may be too generous. After all, Sen. Ben Nelson said he will not be able to support the deal Obama is advocating.

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Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
34. Good God. That speaks VOLUMES.
He is too right for Nelson? Damn.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. Still? He has always taken great pains to make it clear that he is not a liberal.
I just think many are shocked to see that he is not the post-ideologue that they thought so much as an actual conservative-- free of the crazy Bachmannesque stuff, to be sure, but a conservative nonetheless, more a libertarian, free market type.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Reminds me of Bill Clinton in a lot of ways
And unfortunately, Reagan and George W. Bush as well.

We've had a string of bad (R) and not quite as bad (D) republicans in the WH for 31 years now.

Is it any wonder everything has gone to hell?
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Nothing about Clinton reminds me of Obama.
On the other hand - Obama reminds me of George W. Bush.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Yes, he is a lot like Clinton.
Even the campaign themes were the same--hope 'n change. Remember "The Man from Hope" and Barbara Jordan's masterful 1992 convention speech on change?

I think Clinton had better political instincts, though, as well as at least some sympathy for the least among us.

Still, though, Clinton was no prize, better than Poppy Bush or Dole, certainly, but hardly a stalwart supporter of Democratic values.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I was Happy with Clinton at the time
But I was still in high school. I didn't know what he was doing using the "Democrat" image to shred the safety net and to open up the banking industry for the housing bubble.

Lesson was learned- I look at what they DO, not what party they claim to be from.
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. "shred the safety net"
Where do you get your material.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Welfare "reform"
And Glass-Stegal repeal.

Remember those? I'm sure there were more...but everyone was hung up on Monica.
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Glass Steagall was not part of the "safety net".
Although it should have been revised not repealed.

The welfare "reform", which passed with large bi-partisan support, is the most successful large scale social reform since the New Deal.

I am sure I remember more than you.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. *chuckles*
Edited on Mon Jul-11-11 09:28 PM by Hydra
Those so called "welfare queens"? And the fact that I can't get any financial(money) support for my disabled relative beyond her disability(which was beyond a miracle to get). Yeah, we REALLY needed that kind of "reform."

lemme look up...

http://www.laprogressive.com/economic-equality/progress... /

Gee, that was hard.

BTW, Glass Stegal repeal was needed like FISA repeal- NOT AT ALL.
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. So now you want to have a conversation about SSDI?
Your link is to a stupid article that glosses over our totally changed economic situation. Guess you think that is Clinton's fault as well.

Done
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Umm...what?
Edited on Mon Jul-11-11 09:45 PM by Hydra
Clinton was supposed to destroy a program and put an inferior one in place THAT ONLY WORKS WHEN THE ECONOMY IS IN A BUBBLE? That's laudable?

Here's another one that goes into more detail on what went wrong:

http://griperblade.blogspot.com/2009/02/welfare-reforms...

The problem? TANF moved the responsibility for dealing with poverty from the feds to the states. And the states are broke. TANF isn't bringing in new recipients because the states can't afford to pay any more. In fact, as the economy continues to slide and state budgets become more and more pinched, they're cutting assistance.

What are the odds that a program that was based on phony assumptions and political scapegoating would fail so badly? As any critic could've told you at the time Clinton signed it into existence, pretty damned good. Clinton claimed the program would be tweaked as time went on, that obvious problems with the bill he signed would later be fixed. Instead, the bill was signed and forgotten.


Welfare by it's nature is meant to be in place for "recessions" like this. He shredded it in order to gain a political victory.

2 points, many dead.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. Yes, it's about what they do, not what they say.
I worked on the Clinton campaign in my hometown. I was as giddy about him as many people here were about Obama.

By 1996, I could barely stand the thought of voting for him again.
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banned from Kos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. The GOP has a gun to the country's head and would pull the trigger
in the form of a default if they don't get what they want.

If we default we get rated down to BB and Treasuries triple overnight in cost, many funds have to sell non-AAA Treasuries and we get cut off from new borrowing cold turkey throwing the public debt market into turmoil.

The GOP is a treasonous group who will do anything to kill the federal government.
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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. 14th admendment
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
10. He was never on the Liberals' side. During the campaign too many heard what they wanted to hear,
getting caught up in the history of sending a black man to the White House. Obama is what he is and not what we pretended, hoped, or wished him to be.

People heard what they wanted to hear and saw what they wanted to see. Promises were made that were accepted without question. In fact there are still those who with blind faith will accept anything Obama does or says.

After all, anyone who disagrees with what the President does or says is obviously an Obama-hater.
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
16. don't you understand? He's playing 11-dimensional chess!
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Big Blue Marble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. No, No. It's 13 dimensional chess.
That last two dimensions are so important to bringing it all home.
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Throd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
17. He's on his side.
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Egalitariat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
25. This is his first experience as an executive. He's never run anything significant until now. He's
learning on the fly.
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Ragnarok Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
29. "Watcha gonna do?
Vote for the other guy? Yeah, right." says he.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
30. "STill"?? He never was
I made the mistake of believing he was, shame on me. :spank:
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erodriguez Donating Member (532 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
31. I got this!
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Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
33. He's shooting himself in the foot. Repeatedly.
The right chalked him up as the 'most liberal/socialist person Evah' and thanks to reinforcement from Fox "news", they stopped listening to him before he was even elected.

Many on the left consider him a Reagan-worshipping Republican-in-disguise from his healthcare boondoggle and now putting Medicare and SS on the table while begging Republicans to give him a 3:1 on benefits cuts vs revenue (tax) increases.

Unless he pulls some jedi 11th dimensional chess bullshit out of his ass, he will go down as a 1 term President who accomplished nothing by the time history is done with his record and it will note that while 'St Ronnie boosted SS, Obama worked to weaken it'. Some legacy.
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