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BREAKING: Progressive Causus DEFENDS OBAMA, Cutting COST is NOT ...NOT the same as cutting BENEFITS

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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:06 PM
Original message
BREAKING: Progressive Causus DEFENDS OBAMA, Cutting COST is NOT ...NOT the same as cutting BENEFITS
I see most of the M$M stories and the bashers who are coming out against Obama are juxtaposing the word cost with benefits OR implying the first.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/07/992157/-Progre...

But Grijalva and Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Texas), a vice chair of the caucus, defended the president for signaling he would be willing to take a look at changes to the programs, arguing there are ways to restructure entitlement spending to save money without hurting beneficiaries.

This is an article written days ago that has been left out of the DU Bash Obama narrative and even some calls to vote 3rd party...

Thx

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Palmer Eldritch Donating Member (369 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. People would rather chase the wild goose apparently.
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tcaudilllg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
36. Obama has had it.
I'm in on the draft Gore effort. Are you?
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:28 PM
Original message
That's a joke, right? nt
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #36
49. It's the perfect time for progressives and indies to draft a people's candidate...
But so far that hasn't happened. Some still think the lesser of two evils is enough - but fewer than used to think that.

Not sure about Gore though - if he had rallied the people and stood up to a corrupt Supreme Court, we wouldn't be in this mess. We need a really tough fighter if the people are ever going to regain power, and the people have to be willing to take to the streets and get our hands dirty.
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Palmer Eldritch Donating Member (369 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #49
55. Will you support Obama when he is the nominee?
or will you go 3rd Party?
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. The nominee of which party?
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Palmer Eldritch Donating Member (369 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. The Nominee of the Party he currently heads... the Democratic Party
Will you vote for its nominee?
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #59
76. imo he's a better fit in the Republican Party...
Even though I like Obama as a person - I've met him; he's very likeable - my interest is in policies.

I have been a Dem activist for over thirty years, but now only retain my membership for the purpose of the primary. While I'd never vote for a Republican as that party stands, there are few Dems who still represent the people. I'd like to have a different choice in the Democratic primary, and, if not that, a new peoples' party. If Obama remains the lesser of evils, I'll vote for him in November.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #49
65. You guys are trying hard but failing miserably k?
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #65
77. I love how threatened you are. LOL
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Palmer Eldritch Donating Member (369 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #36
54. Al Gore isn't even on the draft Al Gore effort. Good luck with all that!
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. They have also said they would NOT vote to reduce benefits, even if the prez went there...
Liberal "bashers" stand with them.

Stop spinning - you're far too obvious.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. "there are ways to restructure entitlement spending to save money without hurting beneficiaries"
Ok, spin that.

DU is way to quick to conflate overhead cost containment with benefit cuts,

They aren't the same thing.

AFAIK no democrat has proposed benefit cuts. Bloggers have "speculated" that they are "secretly" doing this that or another.

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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Yeap, even when faced with direct quotes the bashers usually move goal or strawman with their wild
...speculation.

This board is being worked
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Sure, but nobody knows exactly what the prez will agree to...
The point I'm making is that the progressive caucus has said they WILL NOT go along with just anything the prez agrees to.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. That's not a good reason to misrepresent his position on cost containmnt for SS
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. It's posters like YOU who are misrepresenting his position...
We're saying he hasn't said exactly what he will agree to.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. WTF?!! He hasn't said he'd take a shit in the morning either, come on this is getting serieal
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Hopefully, you're not really as dense as you pretend to be...
Looks to me like you're working the board like a good little do-bee.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. Whatever, Obama's position has been stated and its clear...I'll believe him on this his track record
...is good.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:21 PM
Original message
LOL - his track record is give up everything before negotiations begin.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
33. Obama promise meter and his approval ratings amongst dems liberals says you're wron
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Can't argue his negotiation track record huh?
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #35
63. Yes, with promises he's kept
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #63
84. I said negotiations.
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #84
94. You shut that down in a hurry
LOL. I agree with you on his track record at negotiations - he's horrible at it. And who cares about his track record on "promises" if it is only on small things that he keeps them, but then fails on the big ones?
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #94
97. Maybe that's how he's been able to fool so many for so long - all those...
...small things he does on the side.
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
29. And yet, they will continue to do so
because it fits their narrative to just hate this president and to bash him toward...toward what end? What good does it do to take every opportunity, baseless or not, to bash this President so close to the 2012 Presidential elections? Hm...
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
91. Unless you have your ulterior motives to do so. eom
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. fair enough, But note the WH has been pushing raising taxes/closing loopholes + th kind of reforms
the progressive caucus outlines in the letter.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Haven't you noticed yet - Obama's rhetoric often doesn't match his actions...
Edited on Sat Jul-09-11 12:21 PM by polichick
That's why we (many of us, anyway) don't trust him in negotiations.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Obama promise meter and his approval ratings amongst dems liberals says you're wron
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. It doesn't matter to the staunch Obama-haters. He makes a single mistake
or two, and they crucify him. And that makes their day. Who knows? Maybe Romney/Bachmann will make all their wishes come true and stop their disillusion.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. I like Obama - I've met him; he's a nice guy...
He's also either the shittiest negotiator on the face of the earth - or not as opposed to Republican policies as people would like to think.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #44
66. FDR had an 83% dem congress
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #66
74. enough Dems in Congress are closet Republicans that they have a working majority
especially in the Senate.

So unless Democrats have a super-majority of PROGRESSIVES in the Senate, they will always produce conservative policy.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #74
78. Yep - Democratic voters have been conned for years.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #78
82. you're bumper sticker has it right--we need to root out the corporate whores in the Dem party
primary them and kick their ass to the curb.

it might cause some short term loss of Democratic seats, but long term it would at least lead to the Democratic Party standing for a coherent set of ideas. Right now, voting for a Democrat is like hiring a lawyer to defend you who actually be working for the prosecutor, or one who gets you a worse plea bargain deal than you could get yourself after watching one or two episodes of Law & Order.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #82
86. Agreed. It'll take an electorate that is willing to do its homework...
...voters who refused to be conned and who will call out ALL the corporate whores in no uncertain terms.

Interesting point about lawyers - no wonder Obama is so good as talking one game and playing another.
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #74
79. Exactly. Some people forget that we have three CO-EQUAL branches of government
Edited on Sat Jul-09-11 01:19 PM by BlueCaliDem
and that the Executive is merely ONE of them.

I believe President Obama got a reality check when he promised to close Gitmo within the year, signed the executive order to do so, made plans to bring the prisoners in Gitmo into our country to try them in our courts, but Congress voted down that plan and the funds for it in a heart beat - by 90-6 in record time! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30826649/ns/politics-capito... /

They wanted to make sure Obama understood who had the power, and he wasn't it.

*edited to add link
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #66
83. So what. This president refuses to use all the tools at his disposal...
...or even to simply stand with the people. You really need to ask yourself why.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #83
92. lol
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #44
85. How about the third option? That he understands he's not a dictator
even though some ultra-Leftists don't seem to, and he understands we're a government with three co-equal branches of government, and he knows what kind of Congress he's dealing with ever since they voted down his plan to close Gitmo in July 2009, and refused him the funds he needed to follow through on that promise?

Yeah...being the rational, pragmatic Democrat myself, I opt for the third option.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. You obviously believe he's really on the side of the people...
imo his actions have not shown this to be true.
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #87
98. You obviously believe he's the devil incarnate no matter the evidence
presented to you.

That's what TeaBaggers think, too.

Imho, his actions and track record have not shown that to be true. Had he not compromised and allowed a two-year extension of the Bush tax cuts last December, I would've been where you are now, today, and believe he was the devil, too, since NO DEMOCRAT would allow the destitute and unemployed to go without money before Christmas.

I'm sorry you believe that should've been the price to pay to placate your puritanical pride.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #98
100. You're pretty funny. He's a nice guy but he's not with the people on the big issues...
He's with big pharma, the insurance companies, Goldman Sachs, BP, etc. - in other words, he's okay with small changes but refuses to go after the structural changes that really make the difference.

All you really need to do to see where his loyalties lie is consider his cabinet - industry insiders all the way, instead of public servants who would protect the peoples' interest.

If it's easier for you to believe Dems like me think he's the devil, go for it. When you do that, you think as deeply as the teabaggers.
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #85
96. And to think
someone just whipped out the sensible woodchuck cartoon, just this morning, and you are still making this argument.
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #96
99. I've missed it. Sorry. eom
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #27
61. The political situation is a lot different now than it was post 2010 election
Boenher has been prepping the Teabag Reps that the debt ceiling has to get raised. I think he is prepping them for raising taxes as well.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #61
80. The president is the one with the bully pulpit and the people are not with the Republicans...
Obama chooses to adopt Republican framing instead of standing with the people and fighting.
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #80
90. What friggin bully pulpit?? Corporate media?? Get real.
BUSH had the bully pulpit, just like all Republicans do.

Or haven't you noticed that when Leader Pelosi didn't want to talk about Anthony Weiner's resignation, but instead, wanted to return to talking about jobs and the Democratic plan, corporate media immediately cut her off?

Here. Refresh your memory: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/all-major-cable-nets-cut-awa... /

As always, he with the bullhorn gets heard, and the only group that has any significant bullhorn are the Republicans.

Oh you of MUCH too much faith in a "bully pulpit" that doesn't exist - when you're a Democrat, that is.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #90
95. I promise you that if this president said he was standing with the people...
...and not giving in to Republican demands - even if it means going for the Constitutional option, he'd get plenty of coverage.

Truth is, he should state in no uncertain terms that he'll only consider legislation that handles the debt ceiling on its own - but what's really happening is the president's making use of a good crisis, as Rahm always advised.
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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. overhead cost containment - such as Healthcare Reform
that is what I am seeing
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
41. They may not propose but they'll vote for it.

The pattern is clear, it will be a massive fucking of the working call and proclaimed a great bipartisan victory.

Don't see how anyone can fall for this shit any more, it's so transparent.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. posted already
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Wash rinse repeat to negate bashers with facts no?
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. This poster is desperately spamming.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. Jane Hamsher already brought that up in her piece "Breaking Point".
The problem we are encountering in this country is not runaway social spending.
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. They were never FOR Obama to begin with.
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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
31. You assume too much.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
7. Don't waste your time. DU is anti-Obama and anti-Dem. Period.
:hi:
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
24. DU is a forum where people express their views. Are you against that? /nt
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. If their expressed by telling damn lies and half truths then yes I am against that
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. Speaking of facts and lies, this is not "breaking" in any way
and was already posted.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #37
70. To the consumate bashing it is "breaking"...breaks their damn lies
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #24
48. I'm for DU being a haven for Democrats, as it was when I joined.
I'm NOT for DU being the place where Democrats come to get bashed "from the left" since we get bashed "from the right" everywhere else. What haven do Greens and Socialists need? Nobody IRL pays the slightest bit of attention to them unless there's a Ralph Nader spoiler. Certainly nobody in the MSM bashes them or gives them even a fleeting thought.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. This is a progressive forum. /nt
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #48
60. +1...nt
Sid
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tcaudilllg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
39. You are anti-Dem. Leave our hallowed party.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #39
53. Hahaha.
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PoliticAverse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
12. So how would you cut Social Security costs without cutting benefits?...n/t
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Easy, allow for them to negotiate for medicinals just like the VA...come on, he's said this a millon
..times
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PoliticAverse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. That's medicare. I'm asking about Social Security.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. Raise the income cut off, lower admin cost....just a few off the top of my head
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #26
45. Raising the income cutoff is a cut, and admin costs are less than 1% already.
The whole Democratic Congress seems to smell blood in the water - the blood of working Americans.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #45
68. How would raising the cutoff for wealthy americans involve the blood ow
of working Americans?

It wouldn't, because Working Americans are not wealthy americans.

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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #68
72. Yeap, the bashers are going crazy now...they're not even tryin to make sense
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PoliticAverse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #26
47. Raising the income cap is about increasing revenue not cutting costs...

Lower administrative costs?

It's not lie they're massively printing and mailing checks anymore.

Will you be closing Social security offices?

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/admin.html

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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #26
57. So you cut Social Security costs by cutting back on services?

Well, that's not good.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #57
71. That's a non-sequiter. Doesn't follow from what the poster said
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
42. Remember 2009 - The White House cut a deal with Big Pharma that smells like the same old rotten
Edited on Sat Jul-09-11 12:33 PM by slipslidingaway
politics that candidate Obama regularly denounced.

http://www.alternet.org/health/141856

Obama's $80 Billion Deal with Pharma Is a Very Bad Deal for Us

By William Greider, The Nation. Posted August 8, 2009.

"The White House has cut a deal with Big Pharma that smells like the same old rotten politics that candidate Obama regularly denounced.

So now we know why the president wants everyone to make nice in the healthcare debate. His White House has cut a deal with Big Pharma that smells like the same old rotten politics that candidate Obama regularly denounced and promised to end. The drug industry agrees to deliver $80 billion in future savings and the president promises the government will not use its awesome purchasing power to negotiate lower drug prices.

Wow. This is roughly the same deal that George W. Bush cut with the drug makers when he was legislating Medicare's new coverage of drug purchases. It is the same bargain that Democrats in Congress universally condemned as wasteful and corrupt. The deal does not smell any better now that a Democratic president is embracing it..."



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/09/flashback-obam...

"How Barack Obama has changed!

We recently learned that President Obama has secretly made a sweetheart deal with Billy Tauzin, the former congressman turned chief lobbyist for the pharmaceutical industry. In return for $80 billion in projected cuts -- and $150 million in supportive television ads Obama has apparently sworn to protect the industry from congressional efforts to, among other things, let the government use its bargaining power to lower prescription drug costs.

Now flash back to April 2008, when the Obama campaign put out this ad, in which Obama held Tauzin up as an example of everything that was wrong with the game-playing in Washington..."



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Kaleva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
58. I think the article says that current beneficiaries would not be affected.
But maybe the retirement age will be raised for those under the age of, say, 50.
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whosinpower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
14. At what point does a smaller SS cheque = hurt
That is the question.

It was floated around a few days ago that is would only be 14 cents - HOWEVER, this math does not wash with the supposed savings - so it is far bigger than 14 cents.

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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. WHAT?!?! I lowered my care insurance COST and got MORE coverage, it can be done...
...some of the positions around here aren't sounding rational at all on this subject.

M$M gets again
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
62. Car insurance is handled by private corporations.
We should not go that route.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #19
75. if they raised or removed the cap on income taxed (not percent of tax) they could solve all
future problems with Social Security, raise benefits, CUT the rate, and still be in the black forever.
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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
25. The Un-Rec police are out in force I see
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #25
46. Probably has something to do with sentence in the OP and also the fact that the article ...
was posted on DU, maybe the poster assumed it was not posted.

"... This is an article written days ago that has been left out of the DU Bash Obama narrative..."

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mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
34. One of the best ways for SS to save money is by stopping this nonsense of making it
so hard to get disability benefits. When people who have been disabled either born or at a young age go for their disability they bring with them 15 to 18 years of doctor reports and still get denied thus they have to reapply 3 or 4 times before they get on. Supposedly to stop people from defrauding disability, they are wasting SS funds trying to stop fraud while ignoring that if someone gets on disability for faking it, it is still cheaper then the nonsense we are seeing now. Fighting the system for 3 or more years wastes money both for the disabled as well as the government.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
40. No, but "adjusting" COLA payments is cutting benefits,
And that is indeed on the table.
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Liberalynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #40
64. Agreed!
Edited on Sat Jul-09-11 12:51 PM by Liberalynn
This is my problem with it. Its double speak that it is "containing costs and "curbing waste" and "strengthing SS" and not a cut.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #40
69. Link and quote, I don't believe anti Obama rhetoric from people on this board anymore
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #40
73. Except Pelosi said it is not going to happen. Stories here yesterday
Edited on Sat Jul-09-11 12:57 PM by emulatorloo
One of those "rumors" that got accepted as DU Fact yesterday. Pelosi is close to the negotiations, she has a better idea of what is going on than some blogger.

EDIT link and snippet

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx...

Pelosi Reassures House Democrats Inflation Measure Switch Not Likely

By Kristina Peterson and Corey Boles, Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

WASHINGTON -(Dow Jones)- Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D., Calif.) reassured angry House Democrats that a proposal to change a key measure of inflation linked to Social Security was not likely to be part of a debt ceiling deal, lawmakers said Friday.

Pelosi calmed Democrats upset over a proposal to change how the Consumer Price Index is calculated that would curb Social Security benefits, dimming the prospects of an idea once floated as an area of bipartisan support.

"She basically reassured the group that there's no way it's going to happen," said Rep. Barney Frank (D., Mass.), following a Friday afternoon meeting of House Democrats in the basement of the Capitol building. "After this, I do not think reducing the CPI in any way is a viable option."
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Liberalynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #73
81. That's different than what CBS was reporting
Edited on Sat Jul-09-11 01:22 PM by Liberalynn
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20077942-503544....

as first linked and clipped in http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Post #32

"But she reiterated that any savings from changing the CPI would have to go back to the Social Security Trust Fund."

If its all "our imagination" why is she already commenting on where the "savings should go" if according to her changing the way COLA is calculated , is not even being considered in the deal the Pres is negotiating with Boner? IMHO she knows darn well its in all ready in there, that's why.

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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #81
93. I would like a quote from here, our M$M is untrustworthy
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Liberalynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #93
101. From FireDog Lake
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PoliticAverse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #73
89. Read what you posted...
"After this, I do not think reducing the CPI in any way is a viable option."

That implies that after the resulting outcry it's unlikely to happen not that it was never under discussion.

In other words the tremendous negative reaction put a stop to it for good.

Also if you've been following the news you'd know that Pelosi wasn't "at the table" in the negotiations.
And the story appeared in the Washington Post - you know, the paper that broke Watergate, not as you apply
in "some blog".


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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
43. Are they against "cutting or "slashing"
Edited on Sat Jul-09-11 12:26 PM by MannyGoldstein
Social Security's overhead is less than 1%. It's a brutally efficient program, nothing really you can take out.

I think we're in "cut" vs. "slash" territory, here:

So, a reporter asked, what does slash mean?

Havent you got, like, a dictionary app on your iPhone? Carney replied.

Q: Well, its a word that you use instead of cut.

Carney: Slash is, I think, quite clear. Its slash. Its like that. (Carney makes a slashing motion with his hand.) Its a significant whack.

Q: So it means a significant

Carney: Im not going to put a numerical figure on it.

Q: So it means a significant cut.

Carney: I think slashing is a pretty sharp, direct

Q: Its not the same thing as cutting the point is, its not the same thing as cut.

Carney: Its slash. (Laughter.) And I dont mean the guitarist. (Laughter.)

Q: A pledge to not slash benefits is not the same thing as a pledge to not cut benefits.

Carney: Im not again, were talking about a policy enunciated by the president back in January, and that is

Q: This is a diction you guys have chosen.

Carney: No, no, I get that, and we did choose it, and the president used it. But Im not here to negotiate the semantics

Q: Just so everybody understands just so everybody understands, when you say slash, you dont mean cut.

Carney: We have said that to address the long-term solvency of the problem of the program, because this is not an issue that drives short- or medium-term deficits, that we would look the president is interested in looking at ways to strengthen the program and enhance its long-term solvency that protects the integrity of the program and doesnt slash benefits.

Q: Which is not the same thing as not cutting benefits.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
50. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
51. Sorry, facts presented go against the agreed-upon narrative...
and will therefore be ignored.

Sid
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
67. Grijalva's view on all this seems mixed to me
Understandable given what's going on.

Here are some quotes from him from a recent interview:
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/artic...

Rhonda Bodfield Arizona Daily Star | Posted: Tuesday, July 5, 2011 12:00 am

Read more: http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/artic...

What is your take at this point on President Obama's leadership?
There's a method of operation within the White House to compromise from a position of weakness. We saw that with the Bush tax cuts, and now we're seeing those same discussions with the debt ceiling. And when he gives in that way, he marginalizes a lot of us Democrats who are fighting on the other end. ... I'm in politics. I understand the art of self-preservation. But the strength Obama brought to the presidency was his charisma and his personality. And I think if he draws a couple of lines in the sand the American people will respond.

What's your prediction on the ability of Congress to reach a deal on the debt ceiling by Aug. 2?
I see a shorter-term reduction plan. Everything will be put off in terms of revenue generation. Those will be separate decisions.
I see raising the retirement age being on the table.
And further reductions in reimbursement for Medicare providers.
It's skewed the wrong way. I'm laying the scenario for something I wouldn't vote for.


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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
88. Democratic reps calling them entitlements, we are all screwed.
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cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-11 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
102. Locking
Cross posting between gd and gd:p is not permitted. The original thread can be found here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

cbayer
DU Moderator
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