Who are the far left in the United States.

[Ozymanithrax]

Right wing pundocrats call Obama a member of the "Far Left," which is idiocy on a cosmic level. Like most of our Presidents he is a centrist, occupying the ever shifting center of our political spectrum. But people keep using the term "far left," applying it to everyone from Sanders, Kucinich, Olberman, and Stewart to Obama and Bill Clinton.

So what is the far left? What policies does it champion? Who are its spokespeople? What holds it together into a cohesive political force that keeps the right crapping in the diapers?

[vi5]

1. Anyone who doesn't enable the Republican agenda.

And sadly, I think most of our Democratic leaders actually believe this is the definition of "far left" as well.

[Ozymanithrax]

2. It does appear that far left is a propaganda point.

or at least that is my conclusion.

I'm still looking for them.

[Shagbark Hickory]

3. Much of far left ( like socialists, communits) don't have representation in the US

As you alluded to, the personalities that fox news mentions are not really far left.

[vi5]

7. Hell...

Forget the "far" left. At this point it seems clear that much of the moderate to slightly left doesn't have representation in the US.

[Ozymanithrax]

8. With this I agree

[Shagbark Hickory]

15. Roger dodger.

nt

[deacon]

4. Anyone who disagrees with a GOP "idea." - n/t

[pansypoo53219]

13. they have only one idea now.

tax cuts.

[WingDinger]

5. Adding a vague term FAR, makes it a rhetorical device. To disenfranchise all those

not goosestepping to their false equivalencies, and who still utter the name of the author of our malaise. Bush.

[JHB]

6. The old formulation of "the ultra-left" was usually best translated as...

...anyone outside of the speaker's circle of friends whom he didn't consider to be even more to the crazy-right.

[dembotoz]

9. i would like to think they think i am

[Ozymanithrax]

18. If the far left is just one person, we are in deep trouble...

[msongs]

10. today's democrat "centrist" is what used to be considered far right wing nt

[MineralMan]

11. It's all a self-defined thing, really.

Nobody really says that they're part of the "Far Left," really. That's a term used by people who are as far FROM the left as they can get. Lots of people on the left, though, think everyone who doesn't agree with them on every issue are part of the right. It's all self-defined. There's no practical definition.

[Ozymanithrax]

20. I think you have a point...

The problem with self definition is that it is almost impossible to come to a real agreement in policy, or anything, when everything is self defined. If we can not agree on basic definitions, we can not communicate.

[MineralMan]

31. When it comes to politics, there are as many definitions as there

are people who care about politics. Only the apathetic agree on everything.

[Ozymanithrax]

33. I'm not talking about policies but words.

Any group of people needs to share definitions that agree on a majority of points. Words are just symbols, and if we can not agree on the meaning of words we can not comunicate nor work towards a common goal.

[MineralMan]

39. I understand. Some words, however, have only general

definitions. In politics, "left" and "right" are such words. They have no clear definition, and are open to interpretation. English is full of such words:

Brown - a general description of color. In itself, it is meaningless, except in a very general way.
Windy - Wind is the natural movement of the lower atmosphere. Windy can describe a zephyr or a hurricane.

Left - In politics, generally egalitarian and democratic.
Right - In politics, generally conservative and uneasy with major changes.

Just as there are many, many shades of any generic color, there are many shades of political left and right. The terms are meaningless, except to describe entire halves of the political spectrum.

[socialist_n_TN]

12. Near as I can tell, it's me and about 5 others on this

board. :) In truth, there's a few of ways to look at this question. In propaganda speak, the far left is anybody that's to the left of A) the Democratic Party leadership or B) to the left of Mitch McConnell and John Boener. A) or B) depends on your team. Since the media is a propaganda arm of the system, most of the time the far left is B), but sometimes it's A). In historic terms the far left consists of communists, socialists, and anarchists. In the relativistic terms of todays politics, the far left is anybody who's OK with the policies of FDR.

[Ozymanithrax]

16. Well, if it is people who are OK with FDR,

then the Far left today are middle of the road liberals. Progressive and leftists at the time though he was a tool of the banks and his policies watered down pablum to make the masses happy.

That shows me that even the far left has drifted right. Eisenhower would be considered far left by that definition.

I agree with what you and others say. Far left is just a way of labeling people that don't agree with a group, like the Troll under the bridge in Billy Goat Gruff. It has no real meaning, politically.

[socialist_n_TN]

27. Well I was using the FDR comparison to illuminate

that "relativistic" nature of the political spectrum today. I'm a Marxist, so yeah FDR was the "centrist" of the bourgeoisie system, so in real terms I'm way to the left of FDR. But in today's RELATIVISTIC version of the political spectrum, FDR's (and Ike's for that matter) positions are "far left".

It's not so much that the "far left" has drifted right, it's just that the leadership and the media have drifted far right and they look at everybody else's politics in the light of what THEY think of as centrist. That doesn't mean it IS centrist. It just means that they try to portray right wing positions as centrist.

[readmoreoften]

46. There'll be a meeting of about 1500 revolutionary socialists in Chicago this weekend.

http://www.socialismconference.org/

There are more active leftists in the US than you think. Don't give up hope.

[socialist_n_TN]

47. Naw. I am revolutionary. That means I'm by nature

an optimist. :) I just wish we were a little more organized, but that seems to be coming too.

I wish I could go. I think they had one of these things in Atlanta a few years ago. I could make Atlanta on the spur of the moment. Chicago, not so much.

[Warren Stupidity]

14. the center right

[Ozymanithrax]

17. In today's world, I think you are correct.

[Rex]

19. There is no far left, this is akin to being a Foxnews 'journalist'

and railing on the Main Stream Media - while forgetting you ARE the M$M. Works on really stupid people like Beck supporters.

[Ozymanithrax]

22. I would say there is no organized left...

and that "Far Left" is just a way of saying that group doesn't agree with right thinking/conservative/Americans.

[Rex]

24. True, I should have posted organized far left.

Mike Malloy is far left for some people...to me he is just an angry fella (and rightfully so).

[markpkessinger]

35. Will Rogers beat you to it! ;) n/t

[sixmile]

21. Far Left is rw code for Jews and blacks

and leftover hippies...

[TheKentuckian]

23. I had always thought the "far left" were communist and anarchists

but apparently that title is for anyone in the mold of Eisenhower and leftward. Maybe even Nixon, remember in 08 when many TeaPubliKlans labeled McShame as liberal?

If McShame is left of anyone's center then I reckon "far left" includes Poppy Bush and Bob Dole in this crazy motherfucker of a nation.

I want people's description of center so we can work out in both directions from there. I'll go first, my idea of center is Eisenhower.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. FYI anarchism can have members of both extremes

and the GOP these days fits the definition... to a T

Anarchism is a political philosophy which considers the state undesirable, unnecessary, and harmful, and instead promotes a stateless society, or anarchy.<1><2>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism

[TheKentuckian]

42. TeaPubliKlans are faux anarchist. They lurves them some wealth extraction schemes

wars, and Theocracy.

They are only anarchist until they have offices and turn authoritarian fast, quick, and in a hurry.

Now some of them are hardline Corporatist but that isn't anarchy either, they wish to transfer the powers of government over to the corporations leaving the same control systems or even more insidious ones in place.

[personman]

48. Classical anarchism is socialist. (sometimes, communist)

We are the libertarian-left. Nothing like the authoritarian-right.

In fact, libertarian used to mean socialist... Still does to some of us.

We are opposed to both government AND capitalism. Very important distinction.

We tend to favor more cooperative forms of decision making than traditional hierarchical government, and more participatory forms of economics than hierarchical capitalism.

Here in the western world there are capitalist fundamentalists who try to warp the word in to an ultra-corporatism and ultra-nationalism, but if you read the works of people like Emma Goldman, Bakunin, etc., you see that traditional anarchism is precisely against those things.

-Andy

[WCGreen]

26. There is no real far left in this country...

There is definitely a far right, but only a little left of center...

Sanders is more of a populists,in my humble opinion...

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

28. Bob Avakian? If you're asking yourself who he is. You're probably in the 99%

of people who don't know either. :evilgrin:

[Ozymanithrax]

32. Now I know...

Very interesting. But does the Far left only include Communists?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

36. I was being sarcastic, but I would think the extreme point of the left would be communism

as the extreme point of the right would be fascism. It's probably simplistic to put it that way. But at least that's how it used to be perceived. My point being no real "far leftists" would support the Democratic party. But neo fascists seem quite at home in the rePuke party.

[Ozymanithrax]

38. In political science terms, you are right..

In real politic, the center has moved right.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

40. Shiiiit, the so called center is so far right that so called "Reagan Democrats" are now

supposed to be mainstream. Which is horrifying.

[Ozymanithrax]

41. Republicans would brand Reagan a tax and spend far left liberal..

History is funny.

[CrossChris]

29. It's a bogeyman/placeholder used to move the center further right.

I wish Democrats didn't use this method, too.

[Stinky The Clown]

30. There is no meaningful "far left" in the US

There is some small number of lefties here and there. Marxists, communists, and such.

Most of the people branded "far left" by the screaming loons who make such accusations would have been Republicans in Nixon's day.

I was.

[Ozymanithrax]

37. Liberals also occupy a point on the let side of the political spectrum,

though not as far left as Marxists, socialists, or communists. I tended Republican until Reagan, who showed me Republicans didn't give a fig about working people. Though, honestly, until Reagan I was too ignorant of politics to know what the labels meant. Voted for Nixon in my first election because it felt right, and then supported Carter. Reagan educated me on real politics and moved me left.

[readmoreoften]

45. This is true. There are less than 5,000 organized revolutionary Marxists in this country.

The largest organized group has about 2500 members. I will say, however, that a small number of revolutionaries are doing a heavy number of the organizing in the US, and that there are about 14-20 different communist and socialist activist organizations in Texas alone. Some groups are located in smaller cities and towns as well. Let me point out: that's in Texas

Many people in the Greens and the Democratic Socialists of America would probably support Eisenhower's platform. That's how far to the right we are.

[markpkessinger]

34. WHAT "far left?"

Is there any significant constituency remaining in this country that could, under any objective analysis, be called the "far left" of the political spectrum? Even some of us Progressives who have had a lot of criticism for President Obama are advocating positions that, historically speaking, are solidly politically centrist, so to suggest the President (who has been to the right of Richard Nixon on many domestic issues) is part of the "far left" is absurd on its face. We're only "far left" relative to the extreme, radical right-wing fringe with which, sad to say, this President has been far to eager and willing to compromise.

[fascisthunter]

43. Big Bird... supposedly

[readmoreoften]

44. The far left have zero to do with the Democratic party. Here are their names:

The International Socialist Organization, based out of Chicago with chapters all over the US and sister organizations in Britain (Socialist Workers Party), Australia, Greece, Egypt, Armenia, Russia, Puerto Rico, Zimbabwe and other locations.
Solidarity (a multitendency organization)
Party for Socialism and Liberation (largely concentrated in NY, DC, and CA) you might know them as ANSWER
Freedom Road Socialist Organization
Freedom Road Socialist Organization-Fight Back (splinter group)
Workers' World
Socialist Party USA
Revolutionary Communist Party (World Can't Wait/Maoist Organization headed by Bob Avakian)
Kasama Project (non cultish Maoists who disdain Avakian)
The IWW (autonomist union movement organizing Starbucks, etc.)
Various self-identified anarchist groupings like Food Not Bombs, etc.

The Green Party is not even "the Far Left" in this country. I'd say they are something like the "center left" as the Democrats are current the "center right". The Republicans are the hard-right capitalists and the Tea Party are basically a proto-fascist organization that could go "hot", but not likely.

[personman]

49. Anarchists, socialists, communists, radical democrats, anti-war activists.

As Chomsky has pointed out, we are only a center-right nation if you only count the leadership. On many issues BOTH parties are well to the right of the American public and the international community.

What policies does it champion?

An incredibly wide range. Many are strong supporters of unions. Many believe in cooperative/democratic organization of the workplace, the community, or both.

Socially we tend to be liberal or libertarian. Economically we tend to desire a more equitable distribution of wealth.

I speak mainly for anarchists and socialists (as I consider myself a libertarian-socialist, or anarchist socialist.)

We anarchists tend to believe in the old quote: "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely." So we tend to favor decentralization of power, and criticism or rejection of authority. (government or capitalist authority)

And here is a shameless plug: check out my site http://AnarchismToday.org There are some excellent videos of different dissidents and leftists. Some interesting news and blogs as well. Hasn't been updated in awhile, and I've had to halt new memberships until I find a better way to deal with spammers.

http://DemocracyNow.org is an excellent news source as well. They post all shows as videos and transcripts, as well as stream live when they air.

IMO, those are great ways to see views that are alternatives to politics as usual.

Who are its spokespeople?

Some names that come to mind: Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Micheal Moore, Amy Goodman.

Other famous examples would be George Orwell, Albert Einstein, even Helen Keller IIRC...

Historically famous anarchists would include Emma Goldman, Peter Kropotkin, Mikhail Bakunin, Alexander Berkman, Pierre-Joseph Proudhon I believe was the first to call himself an Anarchist.

What holds it together into a cohesive political force that keeps the right crapping in the diapers?

Our shared values, and our belief in solidarity amongst peoples. Solidarity is a powerful concept: What happens to one of us happens to all. Lead to many labor strikes and general strikes throughout history.

Just my own attempt to offer some answers... It is a helluva lot easier to repeat conventional wisdom than to formulate and articulate your own path.

See my sig for more info on Anarchism.. well my views on it at least.

-Andy