Apartment complex to require dog DNA for testing of unscooped poo

[Liberal_in_LA]

unscooped dog poo is a problem in my neighborhood. You dog owners need to scoop that stuff up

NH complex with lax pet owners to test dog doo DNA

The manager of a New Hampshire apartment complex says she's going to test dog doo to help ensure that pet owners clean up after their animals.

The Timberwood Commons in Lebanon opened this year and already has had problems with residents who aren't scooping up the messes.

So manager Debbie Violette is going to use commercially available DNA sampling kits to check the DNA of dog leavings.

She says residents are being told Friday they must submit samples from their dogs so DNA profiles can be put on file.

Violette says she hasn't decided what to do if she catches a pet owner not cleaning up after their dog. But they'll probably be fined.


Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/06/24/national/a094534D36.DTL#ixzz1QVcM9DsP

[ejpoeta]

1. wouldn't it be easier to just say you aren't going to allow pets anymore

if people don't pick up the poop?

[mitchtv]

6. that would allow one or two persons

to ruin it for everyone, collective punishment. That they are not doing it leads me to believe that the manager probably has a dog.

[RC]

27. Sure why not. All it takes is for one or two "pet lovers" to ruin it for the rest of us.

[notadmblnd]

10. or maybe just add a fee to the rent for cleaning it up?

[robinlynne]

35. if you are not willing to clean it up you should not have a pet.

[notadmblnd]

50. I agree. but I don't think taking DNA samples of pets is the way to go either

The complex should have a designated area for pets to do their duty and just add a fee to the renters with pets to pay someone to clean up (obviously someone is cleaning up after them now). Then, no one has to play amateur poop detective or I got ya games with the tenants.

[TBF]

2. Just when you think you've read it all ... nt

[KamaAina]

3. I was sure it was going to be in SoCal

:wtf:

[mitchtv]

8. oh , me too

sounds like it

[cui bono]

31. Don't be a hater.

:P

Guess where I live... ;)

[KamaAina]

46. Can't help it.

Guess where I live. (Hint: "Do you know the way...?") :P

[cui bono]

68. I already looked it up when I saw your comment...

and my guess was right. :P

[valerief]

4. I see a new theme for Maury Povich's show. nt

[hlthe2b]

5. How incredibly expensive that would have to be...

to test all possible "suspects" against a "violate" specimen..... Something tells me the manager does not have a clue (in more ways than one).

[Lionessa]

11. Compared to having the maintenance/ yard man/woman clean it up, you're darn right!

[JuniperLea]

54. Ever tried to get someone to do that?

My maintenence guy won't... the gardener won't... even the trash collector won't empty a trash can if there is visible dog poo in it.

I don't blame them. People who own dogs need to be responsible for those dogs. I have two, and you will never find their poo. Never. It's the right thing to do.

[Lionessa]

69. Yeah, I do that, my daughter does that, my daughter's apartment's

maintenance/yard man does it. So yeah. And our trash is collected all the time with clear plastic garbage bags of poop on top, because we don't put it out till the last morning before pickup.

You must live in a real uptight area that can't embrace the reality of living beings needing to poo.

[JuniperLea]

84. Born, raised, and lived all my life in Los Angeles County...

Never more than five miles from The Pacific Coast Highway... the only more liberal, more laid back area I've ever personally experienced is San Francisco... and even there, everyone picks up their own dog's poop.

Living beings needing to poo isn't the issue... the issue is responsible pet owners. I am a responsible pet owner and I expect other pet owners to follow the rules just like I do. It's seriously creepy, lazy, nasty, exceedingly rude, revolting and thoroughly disgusting and subhuman low-life to allow your animal to poo and then just leave it there. It's wrong, plain wrong, and absolutely wrong no matter how you slice it.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

74. Ever tried to get someone to do that?

Yep. And they come pretty cheap.

My association allows dogs in the common area. A couple years ago we had one owner who refused to pick up after their dog - well not really refuse - she always had excuses. She knew someone else would pick her dog's poop up to keep the peace.


Anyway, after much heartburn and aggravation, we hired a "Doggy Concierge" for about 75 bucks month split by the three dog owners. We included it in our dues as a "dog tax".

Depending on how big the association is, I assume the fee might be a bit larger. The companies we looked at based on per back-yard and number of dogs. The guy showed up twice a week, put on his disposable booties (so as not to spread disease from yard to yard) and was in and out in a few minutes.

The service we used based their prices assuming no one would make an effort to pick up anything. I think it was 10 bucks per trip or 8 bucks a trip for twice a week. That was for two oe more dogs. It ended up being 16 bucks a week. We used them as a safety mechanism in case the more responsible owners were on vacation or unable to clean up for any reason. At least the mess would be manageable.

The lazy bums have since moved so we are back to policing the yard ourselves.

[robinlynne]

39. I think it's extremely smart. you get caught one time and you will never do it again.

[hlthe2b]

45. Umm... video cameras would do the same & be defensible...

in terms of $$$ towards security. Unless she has a very good idea who is "guilty," she's going to be doing one hell of a lot of costly testing--that benefits no one.

[JoeyT]

77. I think she's probably got a good idea who's going to get blamed.

If she's trying to get rid of a tenant she dislikes, only one DNA test will be required, if that. Cameras don't work for that sort of thing.

If someone is enough of a control freak to demand DNA testing rather than getting a few inexpensive cameras, it's perfectly reasonable to question their motives.

[WatsonT]

61. I think the idea is that it won't have to be used very often

fine someone pretty harshly the first time and maybe publicly display the faces/names of those who are guilty and I suspect the problem will mostly disappear.

[Cleita]

7. People with too much time on their hands.

Violette, go get a pooper scooper and clean it up yourself. As the manager it would seem it's your job. I had to scoop deer and dog poop in a campground I once worked at. It was part of my job.

[stuntcat]

18. right? like there aren't a million more important things to spend their time on.

I mean I don't appreciate poops in my yard, but I can't waste too much brain on each of them either. This is silly.

[Cleita]

19. I don't either, but there are just people who are not

good citizens and don't clean up after their pets. Just clean it and be done with it. Right now I have a fenced yard so I close the gates so that other people's dogs don't come in and poop and dig in my yard. There is a leash law, but some of my neighbors are not good citizens and let them run free so rather than get into a rumble with them, I deal with it in my way.

[KittyWampus]

22. "just clean it up and be done with it"? How many times daily? This is an apartment complex.

ETA- I see someone else down thread mentioned cameras... that would not only help with the dog poop, but also with security in general.

[Cleita]

25. Daily if need be. She is the manager and as an

apartment manager myself once, once of my jobs was to sweep away debris and clean up or repair anywhere that was needed. It's her job. I cleaned thousands of cigarette butts in the walkways and parking garages as well every day. Should I have those DNA tested too?

[KittyWampus]

26. No, I think the camera is the best option. Edit- managers generally aren't custodians. Or superinten

superintendents. It generally isn't their job to do maintenance or clean up.

[Cleita]

29. If there is a custodian, then the manager can get him

on the job. But if the job combines both, which many do, then it's her job.

[KittyWampus]

38. BTW, we may have come up with our million dollar idea- marketing security cameras that also

catch residents' dogs leaving illegal scat!

[Cleita]

40. Unless the tenants that are caught complain about

their privacy rights, it might work very well.

[stuntcat]

65. LOL @ illegal scat!

rebel scat }(

I'd understand cameras. DNA tests just seemed like silly talk.

I find new dog poos in my yard every other day. My neighborhood's so crowded though, and I have enough problems with the humans already.. I try not to let the rebel scat bother me.

This morning I found bunny scats!!!! :loveya: LOL

[KittyWampus]

71. We get deer scat. Like bunny pellets but bigger.

[awoke_in_2003]

58. I hate people...

who let their dogs poop in my yard. I am tempted to by a pellet gun and shoot the pet owners (not the dog- they can't help it) in the ass

[Cleita]

64. If you know who the owners are put the poo in a bag

and put it on their property with a note that says, "I think this belongs to you."

[awoke_in_2003]

76. when I was younger...

you made sure to light the bag before ringing the doorbell :)

[KittyWampus]

21. I'm sorry, you really think someone else should be cleaning up dog shit from another's animal?

REALLY?

On a regular basis?

It's the manager's job to clean up dog shit?

It most certainly isn't.

But I do like the idea of installing cameras.

[Cleita]

28. On another post I mentioned cleaning up cigarette butts

as well. It's the manager's job to maintain the building and if that involves cleaning up dog shit and cigarette butts, then that is what the job requires. Also, it wouldn't hurt for other tenants to remind each other about cleaning up after themselves. I'm sure some have seen whose not being a good citizen and could say something or clean up themselves if they don't like stepping in it. It takes a village, but the manager is the person being paid to make sure it's done. I just think that DNA testing is a bit much when there are other solutions.

[KittyWampus]

30. We don't even know what is in this particular manager's job description. Guess it all depends on

that. Have a great, dog-poop free day! :)

[Cleita]

36. I think since she's complaining about it, it is her job.

If it wasn't, I doubt if she would be bitching about it.

[JuniperLea]

51. No, it isn't her job

It's the job of the dog owner to be responsible.

[Cleita]

55. That's true, but some dog owners aren't.

I've been cleaning up other people's shit on and off the job for years and while the majority of people do not litter and do clean up after their pets, there are the few that don't. Now you can start a war over it or you can just give in to the fact that some people are not good citizens especially if part of your job is maintaining a place like an apartment building. Quite honestly clearing off dog poo while you water the plants and wash the sidewalk isn't that much more trouble, although, I have been known to deliver said deposits to the yards of the dog owner if I saw it happen. :evilgrin: One of my main offenders in the campground for leaving a pile of cigarette butts in a spot where he took his coffee break, was a sheriff. I saved the butts in a bag and handed the bag to him on my last day of work.

[JuniperLea]

59. Well, I started a war... I think...

I'm now president of the HOA in my town-home complex and things are changing. There are no new rules, just the old ones that we all signed off on to obey when we bought in the complex. I'm enforcing the old rules that have been ignored, and I've even posted posters with the rules and numbers to call when people see the rules being broken. That let the floodgates open! I knew there were a lot more people who felt as I did... but I didn't realize how many! Boy, did we get letters!

I'm going to tuck that "re-gifting" idea for future use! :rofl: I had thought of it, but never did it. I did see another neighbor picking up and she doesn't even have a dog. 100+ pit bulls leave very, very large droppings!

Things are getting better... idiot irresponsible dog owners don't like it, but they are in the minority.

[WatsonT]

62. By that logic no one should ever complain about littering

I mean how hard is it to pick up after someone else?

[Cleita]

63. My point exactly and there are ways to get to the

litterers when the opportunity arises. In the meantime everyone else doesn't have to step in trash or dog poo because of irresponsible people.

[Lionessa]

9. Right as if random dongs never go into apartment complexes to do their

business. This is ridiculous.

So for those that already have leases, wherein the requirement for DNA is not listed, do they have the right to just say no, or are leases now like all other contracts where the owners/managers/lessors can change the rules anytime they want but the customers/clients/lessees can't change anything and simply have to go along?

[SoCalDem]

16. inadvertantly funny typo of the day

:rofl:

[Lionessa]

48. Yep, I just noticed it as I was coming to read your response, my bad.

[cui bono]

41. Or coyotes. n/t

[Lionessa]

49. Good point. I wonder what the manager will do when none of the dogs

are responsible.

[spanone]

12. i think our dogs are smarter than us humans.

[True Earthling]

13. It's a bluff... WAY too expensive. A scare tactic.

There is NO WAY she will follow through.

[demosincebirth]

17. They can bill the owner of the dog that is responsible.

[Occulus]

34. What if they don't see it happen?

What if their dog somehow gets out?

If I were a resident, even without a dog, I'd move. What's next- eviction and advertising costs until the end of the written lease if you have a noisy party?

If my landlord did this or something like it (DNA testing of cigarette butts in the trash if it's a no-smoking place, for example), I wouldn't feel secure to behave normally in my apartment. He gets my rent and I obey the law and don't destroy the place; requiring more of me is just wrong.

(Oh, and the cigarette thing is a hypothetical; I can't imagine a landlord testing butts in the trash and winning an eviction based on it because there are too many reasons why such might be there in the first place for that to be proof in and of itself).

[demosincebirth]

72. " What if they don't see it happen?" Thats what the Dna test are for.

[True Earthling]

73. No - they can't bill them unless it's in the lease.

[Iggo]

14. Who's gonna pay for the tests?

They ain't free, ya know.

[provis99]

24. obviously it will be a part of the fine.

[JHB]

53. And what if there is no match?

If it's from a non-resident dog or a wild animal, they won't know that until after the test is done, but thereon one to bill?

Who eats the bill then? In the end, I will be the rent payers.

[SoCalDem]

15. Why not just put up cameras that focus clearly on grassy areas

and fine the people who do not pick it up.. Or hire a damned security guard who patrols the area ..or maybe even hire some unemployed people to clean up the area, and add their pay into the maintenance fees..

[Cleita]

20. A sensible solution that probably won't be implemented

because it's too sensible.

[Bold Lib]

23. Does dog poo HAVE DNA in it?

[Sentath]

44. Yes

Any multicellular animal with a soft internal digestive tract will excrete the dead cells from the digestive tract lining, like shedding skin flakes externally.

[JHB]

70. Might the sample also include DNA from whatever their meal was?

[Sentath]

81. Of course,

But that should be more digested, and hopefully not dog.

[robinlynne]

32. right on. I love dogs. I clean up after my dog.

[immoderate]

33. When they catch them...

...they should rub their nose in it. x(


--imm

[Lone_Star_Dem]

37. Wow. What a shitty place to live. nt

:D

[Stevenmarc]

42. New show featuring Cesar Millan, CSI Timberwood Commons

[Jackpine Radical]

43. C'mon, you're shitting us.

You're not? No shit?

[izquierdista]

47. How to deal with it

Here, watch and learn:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q4fvLejpCE
Let me know if you need it closed captioned.

[JuniperLea]

52. I don't blame her...

I'm tired of NOT being able to open my kitchen window because some irresponsible dog owner allows her dog to crap in the planters.

I have two dogs. I clean up after my dogs no matter where we are... the beach, a park, or home. I do it because it is the right thing to do.

Did you get that last bit?

IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. PERIOD.

Anyone who needs forced to pick up after their dog doesn't deserve to have a dog.

[TorchTheWitch]

56. this is so stupid for a number of reasons

1) it's an invasion of privacy... there is no legitimate reason for the landlord to have a DNA sample of a tenant's pets that they can do anything they want with especially when there is no guarantee that what the landlord establishes as the DNA of a specific tenant's pets actually IS;

2) there is nothing in the lease requiring tenants to submit the DNA of their pets, and the lease can't be changed any time the landlord feels like it without the permission of the tenant and a new lease with the new rules being signed;

3) the offenders (the people not cleaning up after their dog) can easily just submit the DNA of someone ELSE's dog - and maybe one of the OTHER tenant's dogs;

4) it's the most expensive remedy the manager could have come up with, and she'll STILL have to pick up the poop in order to test it - picking it up and disposing of it is a lot less disgusting and a lot less work than picking it up and testing it;

5) there is no way to know if the manager is establishing the DNA of each dog correctly or keeping accurate records or keeping those records private;

6) there's no way to know if the manager is testing the poop correctly using only a sample that couldn't have been contaminated by another dog or another animal or another person;

7) the first person that gets fined is probably going to refuse to pay (if they're smart) and make the landlord prove in a court of law that A) the poop was in fact found on the premises not picked up, B) that the poop belonged to their dog, C) that the test was performed accurately with no possibility of contamination, etc., and the landlord will not be able to prove any of these things and therefore would lose such a case.


The easiest thing to do is the same thing other landlords have done... either allow dogs and resign yourself to having to pick up poop, hire someone to pick it up, or threaten to no longer allow dogs after the pet owning tenants leases expire and follow through if the problem doesn't get rectified.

[JuniperLea]

60. The easiest way is rarely the right thing to do...

As to the rest... you really have no clue. As someone who has been a property manager, and who is currently the president of a townhouse HOA, I say you are so far off base you are not even in the ballpark.

[TorchTheWitch]

67. "off base" about WHAT?

I don't care if you're a property manager, it's STILL a stupid idea for all the reasons I gave. Maybe it's the fact that you're a property manager and not a tenant why you aren't seeing the very obvious problems I identified with such an idiotic idea, but the problems are BOTH for the tenants AND the landlord.

DNA testing is not going to solve the problem and is problematic in all the ways I identified... the landlord has no right to the DNA of a tenant's pets when it's not stipulated in the lease, the landlord cannot guarantee that the testing to establish the DNA of a tenant's pets IS the DNA of those particular pets, the landlord cannot guarantee that the DNA records will be kept secure and private or they won't be used for nefarious reasons, the landlord cannot guarantee that any poop they test is tested correctly, uncontaminated by another source and was even collected from an area where it shouldn't be, the landlord will STILL have to pick up poop AND test it rather than just picking it up and throwing it away which is more work and more disgusting than JUST picking it and throwing it away, DNA testing will be FAR more expensive than just hiring someone to pick up the poop that the tenants aren't picking up, if they fine anyone and they contest the fine the landlord WILL lose since they cannot prove that any testing they did was accurate, positively established to come from the fined person's pet, nor that the poop tested came from an area where it shouldn't be. Sorry, but none of that is off base and good luck to you trying to refute it (which I notice you didn't bother with and just made an accusation of my being "off base").

[JuniperLea]

82. I live there... my post was clear... I'm not the property management either...

I'm president of the HOA... that's Home Owner's Association. I'm a home owner in the complex I spoke of. And to reiterate since you miss so much, we all signed off on the rules in escrow when buying into the complex. The rules state no dogs off leash and no dog poo in the planters or other landscape areas or lawns. I'm not sure how you got past all that without a clear understanding, but you sure as hell did it!

People in communal living situations, owners or renters, have the right NOT TO HAVE DOG SHIT IN THEIR YARD! I'm not sure why that is so hard to grasp.

Clearly you have no clue about the collection of DNA samples, etc., as painfully simplistic as it was written. Your post is nonsense.

Now, what were you rambling on about nonsensically and off base... once more and again... ?

[Iggo]

79. Heheheh...rectified. (n/t)

[Politicalboi]

57. Good thing no other dogs in the neighborhood

Will be using the lawn to take a dump on. That can confuse things. :crazy:
Like someone said up post, security cameras are the best solution. They deter crime, and will make people pick up the shit when they take their dog out for a walk.

[pipi_k]

66. Not that I think it's OK for people to leave their dog poo all over but...

how much fun would it be to mess with that lady's head and leave human poo on the lawn?

Would she then demand DNA testing on the residents?

After that, people could leave horse manure.


Imagine the possibilities for entertainment...

[JCMach1]

80. That's too funny!

[zen_bohemian]

75. wouldn't it be cheaper to just put cameras in all yard and public areas?

poo on ground, landlord goes back to the cameras and runs the video and knows who didnt pick it up., I would think it would be cheaper overall than to do DNA.

[tammywammy]

78. That's what I was thinking. n/t

[Lucian]

83. That's a bit much.

[tomm2thumbs]

85. wonder if apartments required dog walkers have bags visible when walking in their complex

my guess is if folks have the bags, they'll use them (or at least have zero excuse not to) -- leashes are required... the complex could certainly try it on their own private property at least

for those that don't think it affects them, consider after the feces dries, it is quickly broken up into bits, strewn up in the air by leaf blowers as minute particles, and some of it no doubt lands right on the doorknob of your apartment where your moist hand lands when you and your kids first enter your home ready to eat dinner.

enjoy.

[a la izquierda]

86. Wow, that's dumb.

And I lived in an apartment with a bunch of slobs who refused to clean up after their dogs (I have three, and carry little bags on my leash when my dogs go out to potty). I can't tell you how many times I stepped in poo, or how many times I caught my dogs "snacking."