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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:16 PM
Original message
Pregnant, nude and weeping rape victims hung upside down. Then shot in the head.
Edited on Mon Jun-27-11 02:03 PM by Poll_Blind
But it's a just a video game, right?

Released just a few days ago on June 10th. Available at all video game stores and chain stores like Target, as well.

(*GRAPHIC WARNING*)
"Not even I can save you now. Sorry, babe, it's better this way."

"She wasn't human anymore."

Q:What's happening to us? A: Looks like you're...fucked!

From Duke Nukem, and Girls in Gaming:
It's been reasoned that Duke's persona of 'impossibly well-liked asshole' is a knowing prod at musclehead protagonists of the 90s. But as far as I can recall, none of them were defined by just how excessively they could objectify women. This comes to a disturbing zenith on the alien mothership stage (Warning: Video is rather explicit). The area is littered with naked women being ensnared by phalic-looking tentacles and writhing in pain. Duke can't free them, but the player is free to shoot them to put them out of their misery, backed up with one of Duke's one-liners. And that's the joke. The joke is rape. Are you laughing yet?


Everybody loves a good rape joke, right?

:sarcasm:

PB
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. That Dunn guy has been out-Dunn here, in terms of Jackassery.
nt
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
222. This title is not a good representative of video games as a whole
Many, many people have been disappointed in how truly awful it actually is. For years and years, Duke Nukem Forever has been the butt of vaporware jokes; those jokes, jabs, and sarcastic quips have dogged the development of this thing since Year Four or so.

So now, after all this time, controversy, and last-minute changes, it comes out, and it's a steaming pile of everything bad about violence in video games, executed badly, with bad humor, and just bad badness. A pile. A heap.

The joke is complete, and it's the whole game itself.

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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #222
228. Well said
Edited on Tue Jun-28-11 10:53 AM by Aerows
It's a steaming pile, and isn't in anyway a representation of all games. Look at Mass Effect and compare its artistic and narrative qualities to this hill of crap. It's like judging all movies to be a medium unworthy of existing by holding up "Meet the Spartans" or "The Hottie and the Nottie" as examples.
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BladesOfAiur Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #228
305. I LOVE Mass Effect!
It's like a VERY well written sci-fi novel come to life.
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Ninjaneer Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. Have been looking forward to this game for a while.
Yes, its just a video game.
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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. You are kidding right?
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Hey.. some of us have been waiting a while for the sequel...


A very patient fan of Duke Nukem highlighted his agony over the long-awaited (and most likely never coming at this point) release of Dukes latest adventure by posting a photo of his 2001 Duke Nukem Forever pre-order receipt from Gamestop. The photo, which has been circulating the internet today, is a painful reminder of how Duke Nukem has held so much promise and released so much disappointment.

Once upon-a-time, Duke Nukem was the hit of gaming. Duke Nukem 3D, released in 1996, featured a fun and lengthy story, inventive settings, a smooth-talking, steroid-pumped mans man for a main character and nude strippers. It was a huge success and catapulted its studio, 3D Realms, into the upper echelon of gaming. Shortly after Duke Nukem 3Ds success, Duke Nukem Forever was announced and has been in development ever since. A torturous development cycle full of promises and failures, 3D Realms promises on Duke Nukems future have run hollow.

Poor gamer Slash000 pre-ordered Duke Nukem Forever for the PC on October 18, 2001 and still retains the receipt. Lets hope that, someday, he is able to use that pre-order receipt. If not, though, 3D Realms has promised several Duke titles on the horizon and maybe GameStop will accept his pre-order for one of those.

http://terminalgamer.com/2010/01/04/fan-waits-9-years-f...
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Ninjaneer Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Nope.
Like any other form of art, you are not required to like it. I have read worse in Stephen King novels, and have seen worse in movie theaters. It is what it is. No one is forcing you to play.

It really is just a video game.
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BanzaiBonnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
46. And you are molding your neural networks
so, just as you are what you eat, you are also what you take into your brain. Just in case you didn't know.
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Duppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #46
167. You're on it, BB
thanks.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #167
173. No, she's not. See #184.

The brain isn't nearly as stupid as people like to think.

Shit... that's a great quote!
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #46
225. I'm this?


Variety is a good thing.
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themadstork Donating Member (797 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #46
292. Was that an attempt at sounding sciency?
You'd be better off ditching the science and sticking with the moralizing. You're making mincemeat of the principle of neuroplasticity.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
62. Sick, sick, sick. Why THIS game, pray tell?
Edited on Mon Jun-27-11 04:36 PM by WinkyDink
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
101. the subconscious mind does not make the distinction between "game" and "not-game"
It simply responds to the input and responds most strongly to the input which:

Is engaged in frequently
Is attached to emotions
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Duppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #10
171. so many kinds of wrong!


It's violent porn, even if it's 'just a video game.'

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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #10
210. Art?????
A video game is now art????? Well, I guess if Britteny Spears is a Diva (complete with AutoTune BECAUSE SHE CAN'T FUCKING SING!) I suppose a video game can be "art." :eyes:
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #210
232. A video game comprises several forms of art and is art unto itself.
Games do this in many of the same ways film does, but they do it in virtual space. A team of developers for any particular game will comprise several discrete kinds of knowledge, from writing computer code and building the code libraries and game engine that will run the final product, to modeling characters in 3D space and using photos and digital coloring and shading tools (such as in Photoshop) to create materials to put on those models. Others will create and calibrate lighting in the scene and still others might model and add props, landscape, and interiors. Still other people on the dev team will record sounds and process them, often working out of the same kinds of recording studios the music industry uses. Hired voice actors may read lines and produce sound effects themselves.

The construction of a modern video game is a really huge effort and the final result can be a beautiful thing to behold. I would suggest taking a look at Skyrim on YouTube if you want a sneak peek at what looks to be a really well-executed and visually beautiful game.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #232
249. Exactly
You'll find things found in the creative process in movies in video games and more. You have a storyboard, plot, script, background for characters, etc. Then you have creating the world the player moves around in.

Plus most people have a narrow definition of art. Putting a basket of fruit on a table for decoration is art. It doesn't have to be good art, even Britney Spears songs are art.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #210
275. People had the thoughts about photography. nt
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 04:56 AM
Response to Reply #2
182. It was pretty good, heavily linear, though.
Very much like the original as far as sophomoric stupidity.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #2
224. It's FUCKING SICK SHIT! Thats what it is!
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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:20 PM
Original message
sick
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. I remember Duke Nukem.. played the hell out of it as a kid...
See how well adjusted I turned out?

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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
24. I played it a lot too. Even finished it WITHOUT any God Mode.
1) Fly off the stadium as far and high as possible before the platform rises
2) Lob rockets at the boss
3) PROFIT!

So, it's settled: video games have NO influence whatsoever in your mental health.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hey, according to the SCOTUS it's all free speech and no state could prevent selling it to 10 yr.
olds.
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Their parents should.
The state of California should not be in the business of defining appropriate media for my stepkids.
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Ninjaneer Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. + 100 n/t
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
86. +1 n/t
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
272. Thank you...+1000
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
28. Plus the state has a compelling interest : Those 10 yr olds will make good 18 yr old soldiers
No thresholds or barriers. Ready to see and do anything.
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #28
52. Yeah, playing video games, eating chips and drinking soda
Are what make good soliders. Not, say, going for a jog...


FFS....
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #52
59. I know a young man in Afghanistan today who played a lot of Halo growing up
Edited on Mon Jun-27-11 04:31 PM by kenny blankenship
He's an officer in the Rangers now and was never overweight a day in his life. His 3 cousins have also played a lot of FPS games, yet none of them shows ill effects of "eating chips and drinking soda" which you seem to think are necessary adjuncts to playing Xbox. Two were star athletes and the third was physically stronger even than his two sports playing brothers. Though they've never displayed any metabolic disorder symptoms, some of them did flirt with the idea of joining the military, giving some people who cared about them a few scares over the years. The young Lt. in the Rangers has no economic reason to be there. He's no victim of an "economic draft." In fact his family is so loaded he'd never have to work a day in his life, if he really didn't want to work. Somehow though, he had to take up a job wearing a uniform and killing strangers. I know his jingoism has had a powerful influence on his 3 cousins, my nephews, as have the violent FPS games they all played together. I am so glad my nephews have resisted (so far) the call of "duty".

Based on what I've personally seen in the world (anectdotal testimony) I'd have to say your little rejoinder was pure crap. So FFS yourself.

There's a reason the US military sponsors and writes its own videogame: they need self-selected killers, "a few good men" who spent their adolescence training themselves to pull the trigger on human targets.

AmericasArmy
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #59
102. Prior to videogames war did not exist
we tried to have a few but without bloodthirsty killers raised on virtual violence we couldn't find anyone willing to inflict harm on another human being.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #59
150. I'm glad you do
Edited on Mon Jun-27-11 08:14 PM by JonLP24
knock down some myths about video gamers. Personally I never eat chips while playing because my hands would get greasy and spread to the controller and I hate playing on a greasy controller.

I'm sorry the people you know joined. I had an urge to point out that the AA game is crap and had no factor in my decision to join to join the military and seriously doubt it impacts others' decision to join. Maybe if they were handing out copies of best sellers it would impact their decision. IIRC, they gave me that game (and a pen) after I enlisted.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #52
112. Makes them more recruitabke which is why the Pentagon sinks a bunch of money into Halo
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #112
235. What a horribly written review.
Obviously slanted against the entire medium.

Everyone, don't depend on this article for anything; it doesn't have anything useful to say.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #235
248. I agree
The part about the setting and plot is ridiculous. You can say pretty much the same things about Star Wars. Plus the weapons they have, most people know they aren't real especially the energy weapons.

It doesn't have a lot of information about the Halo tournament except that it was co-sponsored. Was it organized by Microsoft and advertisers jumped in? I know the military advertises everywhere young people might be such as the All-American all-star high school basketball & football games are heavily recruited by the military. I'm sure the military also advertises mostly on channels and shows young people watch. Doesn't mean anything is wrong with the game, they're advertising in places young people are likely to be.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #28
100. Look back on all the horrors humanity has committed throughout history
then say with a straight face that video-games are necessary or even significant in turning us against each other.

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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #28
175. Now that's a valid concern.
Not because they lose the ability to distinguish between fantasy and reality, but because games can certainly glorify violent engagement.

While still in juvenile development, subjects that are exposed primarily to the low-risk/high-reward model of video games might not have the chance to grasp the real-world differences between play and deadly combat.

I knew a guy who thought that joining the Marines, bravely facing enemies with his brothers-in-arms, and putting his life on the line was somehow 'romantic' (not his word, mine... and it fits). He did one tour in Iraq (circa '91) and came back saying, "They were shooting at us and people fucking died for real! Fuck that man! I'm done!".

That's pretty close to his exact words.

We may be raising an entire new generation of volunteers. But they sure the hell aren't ready to be soldiers.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #28
197. +++++ right
there is a definite connection between these kinds of video games and war as we now know it.

I'm sure someone associated with the military could verify this.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
196. It was not a unanimous opinion
it was mainly Scalia's persuasion. The dissenters could well be changing their minds in the future. This is an ongoing debate.

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Jester Messiah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #5
212. Either you're for free speech, or you're not.
The court decided correctly. It is the job of the parents to decide what their kids do or don't play.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
306. they may reverse that decision
Selling this crap to 10-year olds IS the problem.

Jury's out really.
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. Everyone hates that game anyway.
It's a steaming pantload, obvious misogyny aside.
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
8. We should collect all copies out there and burn them in a big pile
right in front of...

Well, church won't work as there is no such thing as god. School, nah, doens't seem right. Burn them in front of the headquarters of the distributer? Yeah, that's the ticket.

Now, how do we go about starting this....
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haikugal Donating Member (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. Limit the age of purchasers...isn't that what the thread is about?
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
31. The game doesn't ENDORSE RAPE like the OP seems to imply.
It's mercy kills. Think people infected with facehuggers in the Alien movies.

If anything, the original was worse.
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Ninjaneer Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. I can not believe how many people in this thread missed that. n/t
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #31
42. my sarcasm is off today
lol
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Ninjaneer Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. I learned the hard way
:sarcasm: identifier is a must on the interwebz :hi:
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #31
63. Oh, MERCY kills AFTER the rapes. Yes, EVER so Florence Nightingale!
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. Which were committed by the BAD GUYS in the game. You're supposed to KILL them.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #64
141. Apparently "kill people who rape women" is a horrible message to give to our kids
and terrible sexist against women.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #141
194. Liberals are always on the evil aliens side. :(
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themadstork Donating Member (797 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #63
297. Yes, because rapes never happen.
And we should never represent them.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #297
326. There's a difference between representing them and "celebrating" them
but as a male who has grown up in this society

I doubt you'd know the difference.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-11 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #326
367. Celebrating? One more time: the rapes were THE HEINOUS ACTS COMMITTED BY THE VILLAINS OF THE STORY!
Why is it so hard to acknowledge that fact?
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felix_numinous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
12. If you're not a woman who has been raped....
I guess it's no big deal.


It's all fun and games right? I love games, I love art, I love freedom as much as anyone. But I draw the line at violent hunting humans gaming, that is just creepy as shit.
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Ninjaneer Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #12
45. See post #18.
:eyes:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
13. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. + a gazillion. nt
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. Even extreme depictions of misogyny are deemed acceptable in movies and video games.
If you ever get a chance to, check out the documentary "This Film Is Not Yet Rated". It is as shameful as it is embarassing to see so many not only willing to downplay it but (look downthread at responses #17 & #22) to call it cool.

While DU permits a great range of opinion, we should ask ourselves if that kind of commentary is something DU will host.

PB
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Ninjaneer Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #25
44. See post #33 and #31.
Why are you outraged at this and not the countless novels that have a rape scene in it?
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #25
289. Thank you...It seems women still make "politically correct" targets
to a lot of clueless and/or indifferent men on

our supposedly progressive website. :puke:

If you substituted ANY other group, e.g. Latinos,

Muslims, Blacks, Gays for "target practice" in games

like these, there would be an outcry loud enough

to shake the coutry....Unfortunately, though,

as feminist Susan Brownmiller said more than thirty years ago

"When it comes to the treatment of women, the liberal

consciousness is fiercely obdurate".
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #25
290. Not a rape scene.
The scene in DN:F is the same basic scene used in "Aliens".

No, that isn't "rape" either; the first known human victim of an Alien birth is a man (in the original "Alien").

I'm not defending Duke Nukem, but man, your OP is some truly deceitful shit-stirring.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
32. + 2 gazillion
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Ninjaneer Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
33. False equivalency
The protagonist in the game isn't raping anyone and he isn't the one hanging pregnant women upside down. He doesn't have the option to free them. He is still the "good" guy in this scenario. That isn't the same as "deliberate hunting of African American males" or any of the other ridiculous things you mentioned.

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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
34. actually there are such games
you can find them online. To my knowledge no state has tried to ban them.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. But those games also aren't available for purchase at Target, are they?
That's an important point we shouldn't forget. There's difference between something which is brought into existence and sold or given away...somewhere...and something which is brought into existence and sold over an enormous, sometimes multinational distribution network.

PB
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. If there were enough of a market for such games
they would be sold somewhere. The problem here is that there is a market for these games. I would have been on the 2 side of this case (for Breyers dissent, not Thomas) but the fact is the reason these games exist is that there is a market for them.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #40
72. but we know... there would be an outcry. while shooting naked women that are crying, rape, is
fine.

a market for that.

what else can we do to women and sell to men. girls, being stalked, then raped as they cry and beg.... oh ya. already have that out from japan. yum
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #72
180. Context.
It's not pretty, but it's not what you choose to make it out as.

Yes, I know, anything that ever shows women as victims is evil. Hey, what about the games where men are tortured? Ever wonder why nobody gives a crap about those?

Because men are expendable nuisances while women are perfect angels, right?

I actually know the real answer, but anyone who can actually think on this point is ahead of the curve.

Yes, I'm challenging you... because I like you and you told me you were not a misandrist. I'm curious what you have to say here.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #180
330. GTA because it is seeing how bad you can be, sims because materialistic and simulated
Edited on Thu Jun-30-11 01:24 PM by seabeyond
sex. let play fable but they have to walk the good path.

i really dont know any games that torture men but would not let them play and my kids arent into them, anyway. most games they ask for are kid appropriate. lots of building and strategy games, sport games and role play, but anywhere i dont like the feel or ugly, without integrity, offensive, they dont play. hubby doesnt play any of them either. so i really cannot give out much info.

the worse he got is the new LA noir, which is a good game, well developed and we were playing together, but i got tired of seeing naked, mutilated woman and a week later he did, too. put the game to the side.

some people dont like those games.

it isnt about the mutilating, killing, torture in playing these games for any of my people that play.

and btw... it is not only games for me. it is what the kids watch or even read though the have freedom in reading material because they are adult level, they still keep in the realm of responsible.

ugly, abusive, isms, trash isnt a gender issue. it just is not allowed.
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Ninjaneer Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #37
48. What difference does that make?
Art is art, and protected under free speech, regardless of how accessible it is.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
14. Tell me again that misogyny isn't on the rise
this inhuman crap would have caused a good bit of outrage 20-30 years ago. Now people are defending it. :puke: If the victim were a child would you care?
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. Part 1 came out about 20 some odd years ago...
and was in exactly the same tone albeit with inferior graphics....

I'm sure some panties were twisted then too but somehow we all survived to live another day...
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. That's absolutely untrue- The original was NOT "exactly the same".
It still contained objectification of women but it was no-where near this level of violence toward women.

PB
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. So a little objectification is ok... but not too much?
Maybe you should make a color coded chart so we know what is an OK amount...
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Pulling strawmen out of your ass like that must hurt plenty.


PB
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #39
55. So sorry to take your exact statement in context and use it in the conversation...
"It still contained objectification of women but it was no-where near this level of violence toward women"

As per you... There appears to be an acceptable amount (quantified in some unknown manner) but obviously DNF has gone beyond that predetermined number.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 05:43 PM
Original message
why is any? why dont they do this with men? why arent they humiliating and degrading men?
why is it only acceptable with women?

just entertainment. you can have a prison.... were you rape and degrade men, get your hard on and do all the fantasy play you want.
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
145. It is out there...
Not a video game but for media that makes me think of Oz...

Lots of man rape and degradation there if that interests you...
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 05:58 AM
Response to Original message
189. Uncharted has a self-depreciating male character, and the female characters are strong feminists.
Yes there is sexuality in them but it is extremely subdued and Drake (the male character) is always embarrassed in those situations.
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whatchamacallit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #189
318. Thank you joshcryer!
I work for Naughty Dog, the studio that makes Uncharted. Yes, our female characters are strong, intelligent, self-reliant women. Just like real women. :think: Thanks for the shout out!

BTW U3 is almost here and it gonna be BADASS!!!
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #30
49. So you've played both to completion, I presume?
Otherwise, your comments surely lack any authority and you'd just be saying whatever you'd like to get your desired outcome. I've played both games to completion. And while DNF is certainly the spectacular failure that it has been described as, it's certainly no more misogynistic than Duke Nukem 3D.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #49
184. So have I and I can attest to very similar misogynistic crap in both.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #30
183. Bullshit. It had the same shit in it. Women being taken and impregnated by aliens.
You could blow 'em up, too.

Just because the graphics have improved doesn't change that it's the same basic game (though the new one is far more linear).
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Exultant Democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #14
57. Who are the victims you speak of? The pixes in the video game?
Crime rates and violence in the US have been on a dramatic decline over the last 20 years (during the same period in which video games have been getting more violent) so obviously you are not talking about real life victims.

BTW 20-30 years ago their was a god bit of outrage over a large range of free speech issues (Tipper Gore) from rap and movies to video games. Since that time over the last 20-30 years as the US has gotten more misogynistic: the pay equity act was passed, women make up a larger % college graduates then men and even more so with advanced degrees, we have had a credible female candidate for president and 3 out of the 4 last sec of state were female not to mention a speaker of the house. In my opinion all of those things would have been unbelievable 30 years ago.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #57
75. Reducing rape with an eraser
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #75
201. Ahhh, so you believe sexual assaults have only gone down because they're reported less.
Yep, that makes plenty of sense. We're not becoming a less violent society, we're just pretending it's not happening. I should be getting all my stats from www.whale.to .
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
70. that it is. i would say this is as ugly as it gets, but not. lets cut offf dicks in games
let the men bleed out. do all kinds of nasty.

wouldnt happen
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 05:59 AM
Response to Reply #70
190. Manhunt 2 shows a character castrating men with pliers. Yes, it happens.
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:42 AM
Response to Reply #70
202. That's right. Men are never the victims of violence in video games.
The level of obtusity here can be hilarious.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
245. This basic scene was in "Aliens", that was 20-30 years ago, and I don't recall any outrage
Remember the scene in Aliens where the marines had just entered the nest, and found the cocooned colonial woman who was still alive and begged them to kill her? She popped a couple seconds later and they flamed her dying body and the newborn alien.

Same basic scene, and the film's considered a classic. I'll not laud Duke with that label- it's crap, actually, and a large number of gamers and Duke fans agree on that point- but the scene we're all arguing about actually happened, and happened first, quite a long time ago.

In the time frame you mentioned, actually.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #14
286. +100 n/t
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
15. I seem to remember, back in the day, a spirited debate about whether or not
violent video games were capable of shaping young minds.

Does anyone else remember those days? It seems to me that conservatives, republicans, evangelists, and the like said "STOP THE MADNESS" in the context of marketing video games that were violent or of questionable content in much the same way Tipper Gore wanted to regulate music lyrics. During the video debate I remember, if my memory is correct, liberals, progressives, Democrats, and their supporters said "Meh, it's only a video game" and things like "hey the Beatles weren't the end of the world, neither will this be" about the music.

Does it now seem that sides have changed?
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. The Beatles never sang about raping and murdering a pregnant woman for "fun". nt
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Ninjaneer Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Have you played the game?
Where in the game does one rape women, wait for them to become pregnant, tie them up, and then murder them?
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #16
50. Just the murdering part...
Well I'd rather see you dead, little girl
Than to be with another man
You better keep your head, little girl
Or I won't know where I am

You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end'a little girl

Well you know that I'm a wicked guy
And I was born with a jealous mind
And I can't spend my whole life
Trying just to make you toe the line

You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end'a little girl

Let this be a sermon
I mean everything I've said
Baby, I'm determined
And I'd rather see you dead

You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end'a little girl

I'd rather see you dead, little girl
Than to be with another man
You better keep your head, little girl
Or you won't know where I am

You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end'a little girl
Na, na, na
Na, na, na
Na, na, na
Na, na, na
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jeff47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #16
66. And in this game, the player doesn't rape women either.
They were raped by the "evil" people, and are going to die a gruesome death. Much like the original "Alien" movie.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
77. Bang bang Maxwell's silver hammer came down on her head..
Bang bang Maxwell's silver hammer
Made sure that she was dead..
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #77
192. never mind that
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #16
148. Happiness is a warm gun, mama...
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #16
160. But Johnny Cash sang about shooting a man in Reno just to watch him die.
Edited on Tue Jun-28-11 12:36 AM by Selatius
The point is, violence has been in music and art and now games for quite some time, and it isn't gonna change any time soon.
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Brigid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #160
211. But the guy is in Folsom Prison . . .
As a consequence of his crime. And he feels remorse. Context is everything.
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zazen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. women's movement has always been more complex than two sides
particularly around pornography.

Contrary to lies spewed by the mainstream media, the anti-pornography legislation of the 80s was to provide a CIVIL, NOT CRIMINAL, remedy to people harmed in the making of pornography. Radical feminists came at it from a completely different angle than the right-wing. Feminists said, let people like Linda Marciano sue the asses off monsters like Chuck Trainor and the various business interests that made so much money off of her rapes.

I think the threat of taking away their money was a lot scarier than any threat they felt about the first amendment.

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Bold Lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. Not to me, I'm stedfast consistant on the issue of the Bill of Rights.
Not just the ones I like but ALL of them.

Someone once said something to the affect of "popular speech needs no First amendment to protect it."
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MyrnaLoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
17. Cool!
thanks for reminding, I've been wanting to play it for a while! Ya do know that during the zombie apocalypse some of the zombies will be women and children right?
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Ninjaneer Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. LOL
:toast:
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
26. I can't get over the fact that DNF was released.
Truly, it is the end times.
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Bold Lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
29. Interesting timing on this thread.
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
36. DN Forever was a disappointment on many levels.
Like many people, I'd been waiting years for the game. I loved the old DN3D...it was crude and a bit misogynistic, but it was done in a very tongue-in-cheek way and was meant to be humorous and not offensive. Duke Nukem was meant to be a humorous cross between a Tom Selleck style 1980's hearthtrob who made women swoon, the dirty pervert at the adult store on the corner, and the most over the top badass alien butt-kicking action hero that Hollywood could come up with. It was fun and funny, and wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

I was going to buy the new one, but on a recommendation from a friend decided to Redbox it first. I'm glad I did. The graphics were terrible, the story was worse, the jokes were crude without being funny, and worst of all...it just wasn't fun. The whole tongue-in-cheek, middle-finger to the world, "screw you all, I'm having fun" mentality of the originals was completely absent. It was just mindless shooting and deadpan one liners, and wasn't even any good at doing those. The whole game felt like it had been written by people who had read about the old Duke Nukem series, but never actually played it. They just didn't get it.

For what it's worth, in the storyline, the women you shoot are already "dead". The plot concept was blatantly ripped from Aliens, and the women are hosts for alien spawn that are eating them from the inside out. You shoot them to put them out of their misery, and to prevent the aliens inside of them from completely developing. It's a gory storyline, but Signourney Weaver went there long before Duke Nukem did.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #36
117. My feelings exactly.
I played the old Duke, and liked the game.
Eagerly awaited DNF, but after reading the reviews,
I'm not so eager anymore.
Sounds like a real bomb.
I think I'll save my cash for the next GTA.



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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #36
168. Such a disappointment...When I see a game that castrates men for "fun" on the market
I'll take some of you apologists seriously.
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #168
203. The apologists will be waiting for you to take them seriously any minute now.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #36
186. The original duke had pregnant females in big pods, too, who begged you to shoot them.
Yes it's taken directly from Aliens.

I thought the game was overly linear like most games these days (game designers know what sells, linear, simple games, that's life). The original Duke had many ways to accomplish a task to the point where you'd really get lost. I thought that the deadpan oneliners were very much DN3D-like, though. They were random in the original and random here. Just stupid really.
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whatchamacallit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
41. I'm in the industry and all I can say is
that's some fucked up shit.
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davepc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #41
273. As is George Broussard and his idea of game development.
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Emelina Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
47. Sick
Sick!
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
51. The Biggest Insult Here
Is how long it took to put out a crap game.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #51
169. No....the biggest insult is that we don't see "cut the dick off" games.
Edited on Tue Jun-28-11 02:24 AM by whathehell
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #169
191. Manhunt 2 employs castration of the male penis with pliers. Among other things.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #191
259. Is it as popular as the women killing games?
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #259
267. It is a Rockstar game
which is one of the top developers in gaming history so it is a like a movie being released with an A-list actor or director. So it is more popular than most games. I'm not sure what to compare it to. Games where you can kill women, you can also kill men. Anyways, it is not as popular as Rockstar Red Dead Redemption or GTA.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #267
278. " Anyways, it is not as popular as Rockstar Red Dead Redemption or GTA."
No..Somehow, I didn't think it would be. :eyes:

GTA..Isn't that the one where they rape and kill hookers?

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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #278
283. Well Manhunt series is A LOT more controversial
Edited on Wed Jun-29-11 07:20 AM by JonLP24
Especially more than Red Dead Redemption. Executions get more bloody as you progress through the game and they have over-the-top fatalities with very graphic violence. The violence in that game has been compared to snuff films. If you want to complain about violent video games, Manhunt is BY FAR your game. Before I continue I should point out to compare Manhunt to GTA would be like comparing The Fighter to Avatar in terms of box office success

To answer your question they had hookers in earlier versions, I don't think there is any that I know of in GTA IV(and I played that game from start to finish). In the earlier versions if you pick up a prostitute the car goes up and down to imply sex--not rape. It isn't a major part of the game at all and people didn't spend $60 for a game just to watch a car go up-and-down. You can kill hookers like you can kill anyone on that game. Like I said it isn't necessary, missions don't require it which you need to complete to finish the game. I always preferred the missions and exploring replicas of NYC, LA, San Francisco, Las Vegas, and Miami. The open-world game play featured in GTA changed gaming as we know it. (Though the Duke game featured in the OP choose to go the non-fun linear route).
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #283
285. I liked the early one which featured
Edited on Wed Jun-29-11 08:48 AM by whathehell
an Indian woman tied up to a pole along with a male figure supposed

to be General Custer....If you "won" the Custer figure fucked

the Indian woman. I'd say that would qualify as "rape", wouldn't you?

It was pulled off the market after a sustained outcry, but the sickening

thing is the fact that it was even put on the market.

I note that you say that "You can kill hookers like you can kill

anyone on that game"...Except that I would bet that all the

"killers" are male, even if the "victims" aren't all female.

Sorry...but IMO, aLL of this sucks in it's goal of making a buck

off offering kids sensationalized violence.

:puke:
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #285
288. WTH are you talking about?
"an Indian woman tied up to a pole along with a male figure supposed

to be General Custer....If you "won" the Custer figure fucked

the Indian woman. I'd say that would qualify as "rape", wouldn't you?"

What game is that?

As far as your last part a second player can play as a female character but you can't do any of the missions as those are one player.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #288
291. You're probably too young to remember, in which case Google is your friend.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #291
296. I did a search of some words you typed
wasn't sure what to look for but is it Custer's Revenge? I'm not sure why the mention of that game is relevant? I see it is on the top 10 worst video games of all time and Mystique made a number of porno games and eventually went out of business. I wouldn't touch that game like I won't touch Birth of a Nation.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #259
268. Women killing games are actually the exception, not the rule.
The vast majority of games employ the killing of male humans or gender questionable aliens. The overwhelming majority.
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zappaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #259
270. what is a "woman killing game"?
when I go to the store, should I ask for an RPG game or a "woman killing game".
yet to see any ads for the "woman killing game" either.
weird....
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #270
277. Umm....That which the original post speaks of?
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zappaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #277
304. sorry
didn't realize "woman killing games" had it's own section at the store.
I will look for this genre next time I'm shopping.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #304
321. There's probably a lot
you don't know.

Did you know that "adult book stores" used

to feature "bondage" and "mutilation" sections, for

men who got off on that sort of pornography?

But that was before the internet.

I'm sure things have "evolved" since then. :eyes:

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zappaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #321
331. "There's probably a lot"
You're probably just saying that not knowing if there are.
If there are, tell us the names and I'll check Best Buy for them.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #331
338. Umm...You need to reread the post...
and then perhaps you won't make the

same mistake your response shows

you made the first time. :eyes:

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zappaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #338
340. so, your saying that these games are available on the internet
but not at stores?
like those magazines you mentioned?
again, what are the names of these games that highlight the killing of women?
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #340
356. Uh..Sorry, bro....You still don't get it.
Please let me know when you

complete your remedial reading course.
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #259
280. Yes, if not more so. Men killing games do very well.
In fact, I'd be surprised if Duke Nukem Forever ends up selling more than 1 or 2% of what the Call of Duty games have sold so far. And yes, the CoD games are men killing games, as are the great majority of all violent video games. People just don't get upset when it's the men who are getting killed.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
53. That Duke Nukem game
has almost universal negative reviews. It is a bad game all around.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #53
216. Yeah, I've stayed away after seeing even hardcore fanboys give bad reviews
and I was a huge fan of the then-outrageous original (and Shadow Warrior)
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Brigid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
54. This is a symptom of a society gone completely off the rails.
THIS is what is considered entertainment these days? It is cheap and tawdry, and the product of a sick and twisted mind.

I am reminded of a TV show that I was a fan of several years ago. But after a while I began to notice that the level of violence directed at the female protagonist. The final straw came when the writers decided that it would be wonderful "entertainment" to have her be kidnapped, drugged, and tortured. I have sometimes wondered what the actress, who really was pregnant at the time, felt at the time, felt about this storyline. It was actually rather mild compared to this video game, but I went absolutely ballistic. I wrote my best poison-pen letter ever to the network (I never heard back, of course) and have never watched that network again. But the most troubling was the response of those on the fan site I used to visit. A few were just as disgusted as I was, but most thought it was great. Just think, there is a fairly sizeable group for whom this sort of misogyny is entertainment. That is scary.
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Ninjaneer Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #54
255. OHHNOooZZ!!! think of teh ChiLDREN!!!!11 D:
:eyes:
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #54
293. And yet you don't mention the show or network's name so we can check for ourselves
Interesting.

I will continue to point out that Aliens did this exact scene in the 80s. No controversy I can recall.

No, it wasn't "rape" then, either.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
56. It's simply an updated penny dreadful
more offensive to be sure, but what can you do?
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BoWanZi Donating Member (502 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
58. Meh. Its just a video games designed for adults, not kids
If you can't suspend reality from fiction like the game, then you have much bigger problems than the violence in the game itself.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #58
67. a game designed for males, not population as a whole. that might be a clue in. nt
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #67
131. Yes, I'm sure this will be bought oeverwhelmingly by men.
Makes you wonder. 'It's just a game'. Anyone who has read some of the Iraq/Afghanistan War stories, knows this kind of abuse against women is very real.

Rape, murder and torture, of women and children. The glorious reality of our 'noble cause'.

Maybe it makes men feel better not to face actual reality by playing a game that lets them think of themselves as the good guys.

It takes a sick mind to spend so much time creating something with such an evil and depressing theme.

There is so much actual good in the world, but for some, there is an odd fascination with evil.

Seems like there has been little evolvement of the human race from primitive times.




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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
60. Where's the video game where victims cut off their attackers' testicles?
There was a time, after I had been raped, when I might have enjoyed that. NOT.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #60
193. Manhunt 2.
I'm sorry about your ordeal, and glad you're outspoken about it. For many males videogames are an outlet from daily life-stress. There are comical studies showing that men would prefer to play a videogame than have sex with their partner (not sure they were scientific, just a survey). I don't know if that's representative but I do know many women who enjoy videogames to get away from daily life stresses. Like any form of entertainment really.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
61. "They" hate us for our freedoms!
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Brigid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
65. Don't tell me that the type of media you consume has no influence on you.
I know it does. Here is a very simple example: When I saw "The Shining" for the first time years ago, I was jumpier than a cat for weeks afterward. I don't always react that way to a scary movie, but for some reason that one really got under my skin. It still gives me the creeps when I run across it on TV, which I have on one or two occasions. There seems to be a primitive part of the brain that reacts to something fictional the same way it would if it were real. Hasn't everyone cried at a sad movie, laughed at a comedy, smiled at a happy ending, or been inspired by seeing an act of heroism -- all fictional? I just don't see how a steady diet of violence, however fictional, can be healthy.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #65
69. Thank you Brigid, you're absolutely right. Media we consume affects us just as organically as...
...the food that we eat. They both become part of us.

PB
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jeff47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #65
76. Sorry, but the science doesn't support your position.
Most studies found no correlation between video game violence and real-world violence.

There's a few studies with weak correlations.

There's also a few studies with a weak negative correlation (video game use reduced real-world violence). In those cases, the authors theorize that the violent video game acts as a way to "get it out of their system" as it were. As in blow up some pixels instead of hitting a real person. A modern equivalent to putting someone's picture on a dartboard.

Taken together, it looks like there just isn't a link between violent entertainment, such as video games, and criminal violence.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #76
95. right. and companies spend millions on ads cause they dont influence.
and parents spend a lifetime teachng lessons cause there is no influence.
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Brigid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #95
103. You beat me to it.
What you take in through your senses influences you, fiction or not. Fiction is designed to evoke emotions. If not, then what's the point? A few more examples: There was a certain little movie that came out in the early '70's called "The Exorcist." I still have yet to see the whole thing, but there were many stories of people leaving the theater half out of their minds the terror, or even vomiting in the lobby. I have heard of similar reactions to "The Passion of the Christ." Then there was the time I saw "Saving Private Ryan." I still remember going into the restroom on my way out of the theater and seeing a woman in there crying her eyes out. I was feeling a little blue myself. Fiction works on the emotions, and that can't be done except through the brain.
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jeff47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #95
250. Influencing someone to buy something is not the same as influencing them to cause harm
You are welcome to provide better studies that back up your position. Until then, you're declaring the world is flat 'cause that's how it looks from where you're standing.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #250
257. College Students Are Less Empathic Than Generations Past
http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?i...

i never made a statement watching rape will make rape. watching or playing killing will result in a kill.

to suggestion that fed this stuff doesnt have an influence is .... naive.

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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #65
226. As evidence look at the hate radio addicts
Stupid, mean, ignorant sociopaths to a large extent - just like the "entertainers"
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jeff47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
68. Hyperbole much?
Or should we also burn all copies of the movies Alien and Aliens?

For those unfamiliar with the game, aliens were the ones doing the raping. The women will die a gruesome death once the alien embryo matures, much like the victims in Alien(s). The "hero" can either leave the women to this fate, or kill them to end their suffering. Hence, the "it's better this way" quote.

As for "She wasn't human anymore", it's because she's being consumed by the alien implanted inside her. It's the consumption that makes her not human, not the rape.

I'm not saying the game isn't misogynistic. It is wildly misogynistic. But exaggerating doesn't help get your point across.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #68
71. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
jeff47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #71
80. Read that again. I'm not defending the game.
Edited on Mon Jun-27-11 05:59 PM by jeff47
In fact it's a lousy game.

However, one doesn't need to "spin" it as the OP has to make the point that it's a misogynistic game. Making stuff up about the game, such as "Rape is the joke" weakens the argument. Saying the women are "pregnant" is an obvious attempt to make the game appear worse, because the reader is going to assume she's pregnant with a human baby, not going to have an alien kill her.

And now we spend time analyzing the falsehood instead of talking about the point of the argument.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. all one has to do is go into one of the links to get disgusted and know it is at the least
that bad.

a sick sick fuckin mind.
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jeff47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #81
84. You're still missing my point
So I edited the post above in an attempt to make it more clear.

I don't care about the game. I care about the exaggerations in the linked articles and in the post here which are designed to elicit this response from you. Because they are stating things that while not technically lies, are said in a way to make the game appear worse than it is.

When Republicans do that, we're outraged. It's not ok here either.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. you are missing the point. I DONT CARE. a look at the link should outrage every single person
that has a drop of decency.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #85
89. Notice the lengths to which some people will go to try to diminutize what you saw with your own eyes
The bending over backward...The "No, this is OK because..." argument.

The "Cool! I can't wait to play this!" comments.

If the targets of the violence and "cutesy" one-liners were digitally-simulated puppies, or Jewish rabbis or a whole host of other figures, there would simply be fewer people willing to stand there making the argument that it's "Ok". But with women in our society, there is an element of acceptance of misogyny which runs so deep, you have people who don't even realize how despicable they'd sound to themselves in any other context.

PB
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #89
91. point. your whole post, right on. my BOYS get it. they are only 13 and 16.
not a tough one for them. tells something about where these men are in life.
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Bladian Donating Member (308 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #91
92. I think you need to calm down a little.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #92
94. do you? i think you ought to be a little more angry. nt
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #94
161. so true
:thumbsup:
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #89
146. +100!
And this is why I don't visit or post to DU nearly as much as I did in years past. After a while the undercurrent of misogyny and denial of same just became too much.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #146
159. .
:(

PB
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Patiod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 09:20 AM
Original message
+1
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Patiod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #89
221. +1
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jeff47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #85
251. Only 'cause you'd prefer to believe the exaggeration.
But hey, it's lying about something you agree with, so that makes it ok, right?
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #251
256. wrong. adn it should be clear in my post. only 'cause i watched the link and piece of shit game.nt
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Bladian Donating Member (308 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #256
307. Your arguments basically consist of
calling the creators sick fucks and claiming anyone who plays it has a sick fucking mind. Yep. Really persuasive.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #307
308. ya. so? nt
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #307
313. Calling people sick fucks repeatedly works well enough for Susie in Curb your Enthusiasm
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #313
314. i guess it would be about the same as people hysterically ranting pearl clutcher, because
Edited on Wed Jun-29-11 09:06 PM by seabeyond
people think it takes a sick fuck to come up with hanging women upside down, naked to shoot them dead.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #307
325. Of course it's not...
to a sick fuck with a sick fucking mind :shrug:
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
73. if that were a black person or a jewish person...
there would be hell to pay.

but women are the last in line, for drawing that line.

disgusting beyond fucking belief and if this is considered free speech by some, may you rot in a hell
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #73
78. sick fuckers.... nt
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #73
83. Bingo. And there are a number of posters in this thread who literally call the snips I show "Cool!"
Substitution is a great way to analyze something like this. Had the victims been, say, Jewish or African American or anything like that, it's difficult to imagine the same level of excitement would be expressed. Notice when it's women, though, it gets a pass?

It's really disgusting.

Even worse, if those had been puppies instead of women, it would have probably gotten fewer supporters.

PB
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #83
87. .
can i say

i love you.

sigh...

i was so mad and telling hubby about it. of course two sons had to know why i was mad. both boys really bothered that game producers resort to this. hubby too. cause it ruins game for hubby, and all three cant buy a game cause wont play

anyway

son says, what would happen if we did this to men. would they think it cool

i like that he could be bothered, even though it does not effect him, or his gender.

i am bothered that because it is not your gender being attacked, that it does not move the outrage scale.

thank you for your thread
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #87
108. No problem- it's as upsetting to me too. Many years ago, someone introduced me to...
...the concept of substitution in order to evaluate material like these video game snips I showed. The whole point of the exercise being, "If you are OK with (whatever) being done to (this group of people), then you should be OK with (whatever) being done to (that group of people)."

Any difference shows a bias.

Good on your son! Being able to be upset about these things, even though he is of a different gender, is the profile of empathy. Empathy is an extremely important commodity which is in perilously-short supply in the world.

PB
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #108
139. Have you ever played chess or checkers?
What if instead of little plastic figures it were mentally handicapped children you were killing? Not as fun now is it?

/point being you can take your substitution tactic to absurd extremes. "What if instead of nazis you're shooting puppies?"
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #139
205. Do not attempt to bring logic or reason into this.
I'm quite sure that your chess analogy will get you accused of defending rape.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #205
219. Well sometimes in chess you can get a bunch of pieces together
to take down the queen.

What is that but glorified gang-rape?
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #219
281. That might be funny if it weren't so close to the truth.
Logical contortions are what these threads are best known for. Hell, I've already heard DNF being indirectly associated with the holocaust. It should be a rarity to see such a huge collection of incredibly obtuse people. Unfortunately, it's not.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #83
105. I think the fact that he was mercy killing those people slipped your notice
had it been a black guy who was beyond rescue and who only had torture and death to look forward to then yes a mercy killing would have made sense and been perfectly acceptable.

But of course since the plotline revolved around using them to produce more aliens it wouldn't have made much sense to use males (I know this may shock you but men tend to lack the ability to get pregnant, curse you nature and your sexism!)
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #105
155. I think you are trying too hard. very trying in fact
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #155
157. Huhwuh?
It's all right there in the article.

I don't consider basic literacy "trying too hard"
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #73
104. Have you actually read the article?
He isn't killing them *because* they are women.

/besides, since you want to be offended why not assume the women in the game were jews as well?
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #73
106. I don't see the problem with it being a Jewish or an African American person
And I'm Jewish. As has been said up-thread, the player doesn't do this to them, they find the victim in such bad shape that the merciful thing to do is kill them.

The equivalent context would be that there's a video game where you're raiding a concentration camp and a Jewish victim has been tortured so much by the Nazis and they are so beyond saving, that the merciful thing to do is to put them out of their misery. Or, you're raiding a Klan outpost and it's a black person.

Frankly torture and mercy killing is depicted all of the time in movies. It also happens in real life. It's not exactly my cup of tea as far as video games are concerned, but I don't see how it's particularly outrageous to depict in a video game.

Now if you were under the impression that the player actually rapes and tortures a woman and were making an analogy to a game where a player rapes, tortures, or kills African Americans or Jews, I'd agree with you that such a game would be extremely distasteful. But in a free society, people are still entitled to consume media that I find distasteful.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #73
172. This "distinction" was pointed out over 30 years ago by feminist Susan Brownmiller
in a book called "Against Our Will".
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #73
174. It is considered
free speech as much as movies, shows, and books are and deserve to be treated as such.

Don't worry though. Even if people buy this game they'll get bored with it because it has awful review scores.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:16 AM
Response to Reply #73
195. Type "racist games" into google, please, and you will find dozens upon dozens of hits.
Then you will find that said games, as yet, have not violated any obscenity laws, and therefore are protected free speech.

I highly doubt anyone here will defend the content of those games, however. I do realize that this game is being defended on other grounds (ie, the OP is misrepresenting the game, etc).
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
74. Meanwhile the literally billions of faceless males killed casually in every other game go unnoticed
Video-games are often violent. But you're deluded if you think that's directed against women in particular.

There are plenty where you are expected to shoot the guys and penalized for hitting women and children. What does that teach kids?
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #74
79. and in those videos women are being killed too. halo. it is the degrading for male entertainment
that goes over the line. tell me.... where are the males being humiliated. stripped and dicks cut off..... ect
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Bladian Donating Member (308 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #79
90. Bad example
All the women being killed in Halo are SOLDIERS. They all die in the line of duty.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #90
93. so it is a perfect example. the poster was pointing out the men that get killed in games....
there are women that get killed in games too. such as halo. no one is in an outrage over that. the difference being is some sick fucks imagination on how degrading and humiliating and demeaning it can be for a woman.

my EXACT point.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #93
98. My point was that video games don't preferentially kill women
clearly they don't.

And no one seems to care until it's women being killed.

Seems sexist, not so?
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #93
110. Wow
I had no idea Halo was controversial! I thought it was a game about super-human soldiers that is mostly used for its multi-player content.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #110
111. it is not controversial. that is the point. women being killed, and no controversy
i was addressing the poster that chooses to ignore the issue of humiliation and degrading women as being the issue, not killing women.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #111
113. Are you saying it should be controversial?
Sorry for not understanding your post. I get everything else but that part. I played the multi-player myself and you can't tell who is male or female because they characters are wearing gear. I admit I never did the single player campaign because that isn't where the fun is at.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #113
119. the poster says the reason people are angry is women being killed. that is not the reason
he refuses to acknowledge it is the degrading, and sick and perverted manner that is the outrage. no, i do not think halo should be controversial.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #111
116. So to counter my point
that men are killed in video games constantly with nary a peep you point out a video game where women are also killed, but there has been no outcry? (of course they are covered head to toe so it's not exactly obvious).

And that proves that people are equally outraged when men are killed in video games?

You may wish to rethink your argument.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #116
121. again, you brazenly ignore the degradation of women in a sick and perverted manner. nt
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #121
124. Elaborate
what is the big-bad male protagonist doing to the poor helpless women that constitutes degradation of that entire gender in a sick/perverted manner?

Feel free to be specific.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #124
129. if you cannot see the sick and perverted who created the game, nothing i say will help you. nt
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #129
133. Indeed, you can't come up with specifics because you are ignorant of what is going on in this
that isn't an insult, it's a statement of fact. You are literally unaware of the plot.

You seem to believe the protagonist (the 'good guy') is doing these horrible things to women.

In reality it is the entirely evil antagonists he is fighting against (and whom we're to feel no sympathy for).

So the story goes something like: evil people rape and torture women. Good people try to help them.

And you are horrified by that narrative.

Perhaps it's the overt recognition that women can be subject to harm? Perhaps we should go back to the video games of old where women never get hurt?
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #110
115. Everything is controversial when the audience wishes to be offended
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #79
97. Lot of women in war world II themed games eh?
Edited on Mon Jun-27-11 06:31 PM by WatsonT
Point is if you're to tally up the death toll in these video games between the genders men are going to represent the vast majority of those killed/dismembered.
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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
82. In most video games...
men were slaughtered almost exclusively. Really, the fact that some violent video games are now including women (and sometimes children) in them should be a sign of increasing equality.

And yes, there are video games where men's genitals have bad things done to them, sometimes by the player themselves.

Duke Nukem, if you know the history of the game, was a groundbreaking game in many ways, especially for its high level of violence and "un-PCness". I'd say that this new game is mostly a homage, and very tounge in cheek as well. It is meant to be over the top, that is the whole persona of the game.

Aliens raping women doesn't seem all that crazy to me. Reality is worst in many ways. Not to mention countless songs, movies, books, etc. etc.

The game is tacky IMHO, but it is intentionally trying to be in some ways, if you know the history of its long awaited release.

It's the puritan, uber-PC (always based on their own idea of what's offensive) scaremongerers that scare me, not the video game.

As for rape jokes, or any other sort of joke, since when has any subject ever been off-limits to comedy? Doesn't mean people will find it funny, but in a certain context, some might. Humor is a way of dealing with horrible things.
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Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #82
96. Duke Nukem has always been that game
that took things to the extreme and this one is no different. They try to make people go WTF because its great free marketing.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #82
107. do you want to talk about the white comedian that got it for lynching, dude recently that "joked"
about gays.

you are entertained with rape and murdering naked women hung upside down and see it merely as "unpc", but are outraged at those that may be bothered.

class
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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #107
153. Lots of assumptions there...
I am not entertained by rape or murdering. But if that's you're test, then I guess all those Lifetime viewers are ;-)

I even said I think it is a tacky game. I didn't buy this game because it looks rather stupid and boring. But that's just my personal opinion.

I don't even think it is "unpc" in my opinion, just tacky. There have been countless movies/books/stories where the hero kills infected victims who are doomed anyways. Not exactly controversial, certainly no more controversial than actual discussions on legalized assisted mercy killings. The wisecracks of Duke Nukem are the identity of the game. Duke Nukem's whole persona is to be as over the top, uber-manly, and insensitive as possible. He is a caricature.

But I think you miss a more obvious point. The game is not meant to be taken seriously. At all.

I don't understand the controversy that many DUers find with video games but say nothing about all sorts of other forms of media.

Many people would be disturbed if a woman breast fed her father in a video game, but if it's in a novel it's genius.

While video games are mostly about entertainment, some of them also add quite a bit of nuance and moral dillemas and social commentary. I would say Duke Nukem is known for being the exact opposite. Kind of like when you go into the movie Predators 2, you aren't expecting a masterpiece. Or when you go into a comedy with an R rating, nasty sex jokes are expected.
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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #107
154. Dupe
Edited on Mon Jun-27-11 08:53 PM by MellowDem
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
88. Misogyny and Duke Nukem go hand in hand.
And yes, I'm defending this game, because I believe in free speech. It is also your right not to buy the game if you don't like it.
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ohheckyeah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #88
99. It's also our right to say it's a sick
fucking game in our opinion. I don't advocate making the game illegal but I have no problem in saying that it's sick and twisted and I seriously have to wonder about anyone who enjoys playing this kind of game.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #88
109. gonna defend a game stringing up blacks, tying gays onto barb wired fences? nt
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Bladian Donating Member (308 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #109
114. Honestly, why are you SO venomous about this topic?
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #114
118. Maybe not everybody's as cool with the topic of simulated rape and murder as you are?
:shrug:

PB
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #118
140. There is so much wrong with this game
that you can trash it honestly. Here is a great review of the game that absolutely trashes it honestly--http://arstechnica.com/gaming/reviews/2011/06/duke-nuke...

Now it has been pointed out repeated that the character isn't raping anyone. That she is bearing alien children and the character can either do a mercy kill or let the woman die on her own due to the aliens growing inside of her. Pretty much the only games I'm aware of that simulates rape are Japanese games that aren't mainstream.

OK, there are games that allow you to simulate murder like movies simulate murder. However Duke (In what is a terribly offensive game) is fighting aliens which isn't murder.
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #140
156. Agreed. That level was absolutely terrible.
Was that supposed to be entertaining?

I mean, I stand by my statements on this thread, but that had to be one of the stupidest concepts in a game I've ever seen. Literally torture to watch, so it would probably be even worse to play.

Gearbox should be embarrassed for making such a terrible, unfun game.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #114
122. honestly? raping women and hanging them upsidedown, naked (at the most vulnerable)
and shooting them, as they cry?

honestly?

why am i bothered?

truly, it is beyond your scope why a woman may be offended? obviously you are the market this game maker is looking for.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #122
128. Ok, you didn't read the article
You imply that it's the same guy raping/hanging them upside as it is putting them out of their misery.

The bad guys did the first part, the good guy did the second.

So the message is: evil people rape and torture women.

Good people try to help them (in this case a mercy killing as he states that he cannot save them and they are suffering horribly).

Yeah, can't have kids get the impression that it's bad to rape women and good to try to help them. :eyes:
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #109
123. The whole point of Duke Nukem is shock and offense
Edited on Mon Jun-27-11 07:14 PM by chrisa
The plot of Duke Nukem is: Aliens have come to earth and stole Duke Nukem's beer and women. Do all that you can to get both back.

Honestly, how could anyone take something like that seriously? It's supposed to be offensive humor that makes you cringe. The character of Duke Nukem is a parody of macho action heroes. He's way too over the top (and so is the game itself) to be taken seriously.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #109
125. If the good guy in that game is doing it to those people
for being black/gay? Obviously not.

However that is not the case here.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #125
132. if creators made a game about that subject, there would be an outcry. it wouldnt be
oh, but the hero.... he is doing good killing them off.

it would be what sick, bigoted fuck made this fuckin game, and what bigot wants to play it.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #132
134. If there were a game
where the bad guys were going around killing blacks/gays and your job was to stop them I really don't think there'd be an outcry.

And you are aware of the concept of "mercy killing" right?
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #134
135. if they put out a gmae where KKK was lynching black men, hero kill 'em hanging, no outcry?
Edited on Mon Jun-27-11 07:25 PM by seabeyond
bullshit.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #135
137. Not an accurate analogy
in this game A) this isn't the entire focus of the narrative and B) the women are beyond help and have two options: die now or suffer badly for a long period of time.

Create some equivalent scenario where some small portion of a game is killing off people whom you cannot help and would otherwise just be tortured by the bad guys and yeah I don't see any issue with it.

You seem awfully intent on this. I wonder why.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #137
142. I wonder why. ... i dont find rape, hanging women naked, upside down, listening to them cry
and shooting them as entertainment.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #142
144. Indeed, what do you consider entertainment?
Edited on Mon Jun-27-11 07:33 PM by WatsonT
You are apparently ok with men being torn to shreds in violent war games as you've said nothing on that subject.

Is it only wrong to portray women as fragile victims, but acceptable to display men as such?

Or should all video games depicting realistic violence be banned?

Movies as well I assume?

Can you think of any movies where a woman is raped? I'm guessing yes you can. Shall we ban all of those?
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #144
200. Now, since we established that this game is being misrepresented, how would you feel about Raplay?
A game where you stalk girls and then quite literally rape them, in fairly realistic 3D.

Free speech or obscenity?
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #200
218. Never heard of it
and I'd say both. Free speech because I am kind of an absolutist on that, but also obscene.

They should be free to sell it and everyone else should be free to boycott it.

/and for that I'd support a parental warning since the entire point of the game is nothing but rape apparently (again, never heard of it before, just going off what you said).
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #218
269. Here's the wikipedia article:
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #137
199. I agree. If there was a game pitting Native Americans against colonists, I doubt anyone would care.
Sounds like a fucking awesome game, actually.
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #199
207. You've never played "Custer's Revenge"?
One of the nadirs of the 8-bit era. Yet, "all computer games since its release have been but a loose variation on its plot and main themes".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Custer%27s_Revenge
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #199
220. Could be fun
in those types of games I usually play as the historical losers since I figure that would be more of a challenge.

Although if it's to be realistic the native forces would have to see constant degradation of their forces through disease whether they fight or not, which wouldn't be as fun.
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Liquorice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #135
147. It would never be allowed. Misogyny is the most accepted prejudice in the world. nt
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #135
198. You may wish to google "Ethnic Cleansing: The Game"
Enjoy the outrage.

None of these games to my knowledge have violated obscenity laws.
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Liquorice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #198
242. That game wasn't available for sale at your local Target. In fact, nobody distributed
it. No store would have EVER carried that sick game, and if they would have, there would have been outrage so overwhelming it would have been taken off shelves within days. To compare that to this mass-marketed game found at any major retailer is ridiculous.
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malmapus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
120. Yes, a rather pathetic video game. Look at what G4 thinks of it.
Some people may like the crap, it's not my kind of game.

G4 Duke Nukem Forever Video Review
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #120
127. thank you. creepy hateful view of women. and posters ask women, why?
why are you bothered with the game.

appreciate this. hubby has heard the same about the game. says, no one is buying.

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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #120
136. Sounds like Adam Sessler. I'm not surprised he made a special point to call them out...
...on the misogyny. He also called out Infinity Ward for a homophobic spot they produced.

PB
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zappaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
126. oh my goodness!
Oh my! I was just telling me grandson the other day about this man named Elvis Presley who played colored music!
I saw him on Ed Sullivan and...oh my goodness...he was gyrating like some sort of pervert!!!
While clutching my pearls and felt myself getting the vapors!
Mark my words, this Presley fella will bring about the end of civilization!
Disgusting!
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #126
138. Didja watch the clips I link to? You gonna compare that to Elvis Presley playing "colored" music?
Edited on Mon Jun-27-11 07:30 PM by Poll_Blind
Oh my! I was just telling me grandson the other day about this man named Elvis Presley who played colored music!
I saw him on Ed Sullivan and...oh my goodness...he was gyrating like some sort of pervert!!!
While clutching my pearls and felt myself getting the vapors!
Mark my words, this Presley fella will bring about the end of civilization!
Disgusting!


:shrug:

PB
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zappaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #138
143. sure
it's the same level of outrage by the pearl-clutchers.
elvis and his moves were awful and degrading and making people do crazy things!
same old tune...different lyrics.
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ohheckyeah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #143
164. Aren't you just so clever to use the
pearl clutchers meme?

Elvis gyrating is not nor has it ever been comparable to rape and murder.

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zappaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 04:14 AM
Response to Reply #164
179. Didn't say it was
the outrages are what are exactly the same.
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #179
335. No one should ever have a negative opinion about anything ever.
Edited on Thu Jun-30-11 03:07 PM by sudopod
For example, if I said that your unusual affection for farm animals is uncivilized, I would certainly be in the wrong. One time, when I was in New Zealand, I encountered a local gentleman engaged in the very same act, and we had a long discussion about the pros and cons said behaivor. I came away with a much better understanding of human nature and how we all have different tastes. Also, I was surprised at how the natural oils in the wool act as nature's own skin moisturizer. That man had the softest hands of any farmer I've ever known.

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Jester Messiah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #164
214. Spot-on usage, as I see it.
"Won't someone think of the children!?" The same old mantra used for ages to shut down provocative works.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:57 AM
Response to Reply #126
204. If you thought his dancing is the downfall of society, you should see the fool's gold loaf....
Edited on Tue Jun-28-11 06:59 AM by JVS
sandwiches he ate and the black velvet paintings he adorns.
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Brigid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #126
266. Elvis Presley's gyrations didn't encourage or celebrate violence.
Not much relevance here in this debate over violent video games.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
130. Hey, what do you expect from people who read the bible?
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Azathoth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
149. Oh here we go again...wild-eyed hysteria over 30 seconds from a 10-hour video game
Edited on Mon Jun-27-11 08:07 PM by Azathoth
And a decidedly mediocre game at that.

After decades of blonde bimbo jokes, Japanese tentacle porn, and 80's action star parodies, these fits of moral indignation ring a little hollow. Lord Macaulay certainly had it right :eyes:
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ohheckyeah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #149
165. Nobody is wild eyed or
hysteric..... :eyes:
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LetTimmySmoke Donating Member (970 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
151. The game isn't my thing. But let's not start another moral panic on video games.
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ohheckyeah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #151
166. Nobody is in a moral panic.
People are expressing their opinions and feelings about the 'game' and the derision is uncalled for.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #166
237. No, they ARE in a moral panic. Also, they are clutching pearls, wringing hands, throwing hissy fits
and shouting "GET OFF MY LAWN!!!"
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #237
360. "throwing hissy fits" - really?
Somehow, referring to someone protesting the depictions of rape, sexual torture, violence, murder, and humiliation directed at women as having a "hissy fit" seems to prove the points they're raising.
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jeff47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #166
252. Clearly, you are not reading many of the posts in this thread. (nt)
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #166
284. Au contraire. nt
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lunasun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
152. sick shit the stupids will buy thier inappropriate age children no doubt to keep em'busy'
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-11 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
158. Sometimes it seems males are afflicted with violent sick imaginations
This stuff is toxic, yet they approve of it as 'just games'.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 05:12 AM
Response to Reply #158
187. This is a homage to "Aliens." The original Duke 3D had the same thing.
You could find impregnated women in pods who begged you to kill them.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #187
294. "Please...... kill me.... kill.... me..."
Colonial settler, Aliens
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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
162. Sadly, parents will buy this for their impressionable young boys
w/o doing any research on what is involved because the kids will WANT it & the majority of parents don't understand (or care) about the video game rating system. Just make sure little Jeremy is happy & off my back.........
These impressionable young boys will be "brainwashed" that this is an acceptable way to treat women. Not hard to figure what this will lead to in the future.

This is simply disgusting, not to mention very unacceptable in a civilized nation. We are truly a 3rd world nation.....sometimes by our choices. :puke:
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
163. Horrible to the nth degree.
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Lucian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 02:23 AM
Response to Original message
170. So, you can't tell the difference between a video game and real life?
Duke Nukem sucks to the Nth degree. It's a video game. And a horrible one at that. The ratings are really poor. No one I know bought it.

I know it's fake.
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ImNotTed Donating Member (250 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 02:50 AM
Response to Original message
176. I'm with you, PB
Recced, as opposed to people who would actually play this garbage, who are wrecked!
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 02:52 AM
Response to Original message
177. The appeal of Duke Nukem is limited. I'm not a fan, but there's a cult following out there...
not unlike Star Trek. I suppose this sequence is the kind of thing that makes the Duke Nukem persona who he is.
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JoeyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 03:50 AM
Response to Original message
178. It's a shitty game that's trying to use outrage as a selling point.
Edited on Tue Jun-28-11 03:51 AM by JoeyT
Outrage is the cheapest form of advertisement. GTA and Postal would never have become as popular as they ended up being without it.
I actually don't understand why there aren't any new games where you can castrate opponents with a well aimed shot. You could do it in the old Fallout games, and it was pretty hilarious. Well, the descriptions were, the graphics weren't really up to showing much back then.

Anyone that thinks guys wouldn't play a game that let you castrate opponents is kidding themselves. Within an hour of release there would be trick nutshots posted to Youtube of guys jumping off buildings and doing flips as they fired on another guy's crotch. The more graphic and realistic the damage the more fun they'd have doing it.

That's not to say the game is ok. I'm just saying they're hoping to use the outrage to their advantage.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 04:40 AM
Response to Original message
181. Here is my problem:
Edited on Tue Jun-28-11 04:45 AM by woo me with science
Show me the person who should be trusted with the power to decide for me which video games I am not fit to evaluate and form a judgment about on my own.

I haven't met that person yet.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #181
188. Obscenity laws exist and I while I've yet to find a game that breaks them, I am sure...
...that you could make one that would.

Not saying I disagree with you, just trying to make sure you know that free speech is not irrevocable.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #188
208. Of course you are right that they do,
Edited on Tue Jun-28-11 07:46 AM by woo me with science
but, like you, I have not yet seen one yet that I think fits that description.

In our country, at this time, I would be far less disturbed by the existence of an obscene video game than I am by the prospect of handing more power over to an authority figure to decide for me what video games I may see and evaluate on my own.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 05:06 AM
Response to Original message
185. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
206. I must be approaching the "Get offa my lawn you dang kids" age because
Edited on Tue Jun-28-11 07:17 AM by deutsey
I can't understand why anyone, male/female, adult/child, would want to play something like that.

:shrug:
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Jester Messiah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #206
215. Not many do, the game is widely considered to suck. [nt]
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
209. Rape celebrated and glorified! Pictures and links!
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BrendaBrick Donating Member (859 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #209
317. Interesting.....
I clicked on the link and saw all of the pics. I never heard of this...the "rape" (aka etymology - *abduction*) of the Sabine women.

I looked it up on wiki and found this: (in part)

Story

Pietro da Cortona, 1627-29 The Rape is supposed to have occurred in the early history of Rome, shortly after its founding by Romulus and his mostly male followers. Seeking wives in order to found families, the Romans negotiated unsuccessfully with the Sabines, who populated the area. Fearing the emergence of a rival society, the Sabines refused to allow their women to marry the Romans. Consequently, the Romans planned to abduct Sabine women. Romulus devised a festival of Neptune Equester and proclaimed the festival among Rome's neighbours. According to Livy, many people from Rome's neighbours attended, including folk from the Caeninenses, Crustumini, and Antemnates, and many of the Sabines. At the festival Romulus gave a signal, at which the Romans grabbed the Sabine women and fought off the Sabine men. The indignant abductees were soon implored by Romulus to accept Roman husbands.

Livy is clear that no sexual assault took place. On the contrary, Romulus offered them free choice and promised civic and property rights to women. According to Livy, Romulus spoke to them each in person, "and pointed out to them that it was all owing to the pride of their parents in denying the right of intermarriage to their neighbours. They would live in honourable wedlock, and share all their property and civil rights, and--dearest of all to human nature--would be the mothers of free men."<1>

War with the Sabines and Other TribesOutraged at the occurrence, the king of the Caeninenses entered upon Roman territory with his army. Romulus and the Romans met the Caeninenses in battle, killed their king, and routed their army. Romulus later attacked Caenina and took it upon the first assault. Returning to Rome, Romulus dedicated a temple to Jupiter Feretrius (according to Livy, the first temple dedicated in Rome) and offered the spoils of the enemy king as spolia opima. According to the Fasti Triumphales, Romulus celebrated a triumph over the Caeninenses on 1 March 752 BC <2>.

At the same time, the army of the Antemnates invaded Roman territory. The Romans retaliated, and the Antemnates were defeated in battle and their town conquered. According to the Fasti Triumphales, Romulus celebrated a second triumph in 752 BC over the Antemnates.

The Crustumini also started a war, but their town too was captured by the Romans.

Roman colonists subsequently were sent to Antemnae and Crustumerium by Romulus, and many citizens of those towns also migrated to Rome (particularly the families of the captured women).

The Sabines also went to war with the Romans, led by their king, Titus Tatius. When Tatius attacked Rome, he almost succeeded in capturing the city because of the treason of Tarpeia, daughter of Spurius Tarpeius, governor of the citadel on the Capitoline Hill. She opened the city gates for the Sabines in return for "what they bore on their arms;" she believed that she would receive their golden bracelets. Instead, the Sabines crushed her to death with their shields, and she was thrown from the rock, which since has borne her name, the Tarpeian Rock.

The Roman forces attacked the Sabines, who were now in possession of the citadel. The Roman advance was led by Hostus Hostilius, and the Sabine front by Mettus Curtius. When Hostus fell, the Roman line gave way, and they retreated to the gate of the Palatium. There Romulus gathered his men and, promising to build a temple to Jupiter Stator on that site, led the Romans back into battle.

The battle continued. Mettus Curtius was unhorsed and fled the battle, and the Romans gained the upper hand.

At that point the women intervened in the battle to reconcile the warring parties:

went boldly into the midst of the flying missiles with disheveled hair and rent garments. Running across the space between the two armies they tried to stop any further fighting and calm the excited passions by appealing to their fathers in the one army and their husbands in the other not to bring upon themselves a curse by staining their hands with the blood of a father-in-law or a son-in-law, nor upon their posterity the taint of parricide. "If," they cried, "you are weary of these ties of kindred, these marriage-bonds, then turn your anger upon us; it is we who are the cause of the war, it is we who have wounded and slain our husbands and fathers. Better for us to perish rather than live without one or the other of you, as widows or as orphans."<1>

Following the reconciliation, the Sabines agreed to form one nation with the Romans and the Sabine king, Titus Tatius, jointly ruled Rome with Romulus until Tatius's death five years later.

The new Sabine residents of Rome lived on the Capitoline Hill.<3>

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rape_of_the_Sabine_Wom...

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Travelman Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
213. The makers of that game have every right
under the First Amendment to make that game.

And the state of California has every right under the Tenth Amendment to regulate who may purchase that game.



The Supreme Court really blew it with this ruling.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #213
217. would you say the same thing if it was a state law regulating who can purchase a comic book?
The history of state attempts to regulate access to expressive content to minors because it is deemed too violent has a long history. Would you have supported the efforts in the 1950s to ban "horror" comics?


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Travelman Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #217
231. Sure.
States restrict minors' access to all sorts of things. The states have the right to do that. Minors don't get the same rights as emancipated adults. This is not some sort of new concept. Minors can't buy Playboys, for example. Or hardcore porn. Or cigarettes. Or guns. Or alcohol. In fact, in most states, minors may not enter into a binding contract of any sort, so they can't even legally buy a car on their own when they're 16.

I have no problem with that at all if it's at the state level. The feds can't tell people that they can't make that game and sell it, but the states certainly do have the right to regulate that sale.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #231
239. cigarettes,guns, and alcohol don't have first amendment protection
And there is a long history of the First Amendment being construed to accord only limited protection to speech with sexual content and of treating minors access to sexual content differently from the access allowed adults. There is, however, no similar history with respect to speech with violent imagery, which has, like it or not, been part of children's literature for ages.

So you may want the Constitutional protection accorded violent imagery to be restrained, the fact is that historically it hasn't been subject to the same standard as sexual speech. Personally, I'd like to see this distinction eroded, not by regulating more speech, but by regulating less.

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zappaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #239
240. +1
the most outraged are likely parents who want the government to babysit for them instead of raising a child by themselves.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #239
328. Great post. I agree. nt
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
223. OMFG, that is fucking evil.
:grr:
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #223
295. Ever see Aliens?
Same scene as when the Marines in that movie found the colonial settler- the one who asked the Marines to kill her, please.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #295
319. DOH, I'm an idiot. That's what I get for not reading the article fully!
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
227. Duke Nukem Forever
is so crappy, it's not even worth taking the time to download it for free, and not just because of disgusting crap discussed in the article.

The game went way over the line, and pretty much everyone that has reviewed it has acknowledged it. The reviews were so bad, that the PR company threatened reviewers that they wouldn't get copies in the future of other games if they didn't give it good reviews. That, of course, came out, and caused yet another bru-ha-ha and the PR company got fired.

You can't judge every game by Duke Nukem Forever. There are plenty of other games out there to play that have real artistic value (Dragon Age, Mass Effect, and Fallout come to mind). PLENTY of reviewers have said "this isn't right" in regards to DN4, so let's not judge the entire industry by one shitty game that goes way over the line.
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
229. SCOTUS approved.
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4lbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
230. I think the Stonekeep award will be renamed the DNF award.
For those that don't know what I mean, Stonekeep was a game in the 1990s that was infamous for being, at the time, the game that took the longest time from conception (vaporware) to completion (actual product you can buy on store shelves). It took 6 years.

Now, DNF (Duke Nukem Forever) demolishes that by going from 1997 (conception) to completion (2011). Fourteen years!


Oh, and if you are not familiar with Duke Nukem, in the previous version, Duke Nukem 3D, he pretty much did the same stuff. Although, I don't remember killing women in that one, there were strippers and druggies.

Duke Nukem's character is supposed to be a blend of Bruce Willis' "Die Hard", John Wayne, and the Bruce Campbell hero in "Army of Darkness". He even says "Ooooh.... Hail to the King, baby!"

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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
233. Nothing gets people riled up more than the video games...
while real terror and tragedy of epic proportions takes place in afghanistan and pakistan everyday. (and countless other places were the US military/mercenaries tendrils reach)

yet, we just sort of stamp our feet and scream, "MEH" at that.

when people have no control over what really matters in their life they choose instead to go crazy over things that don't.

Video games - in your face.

The real tragedy of war - not so much. (thank you MSN)

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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
234. No one can tell
me that these violent, misogynist videos don't desensitize males. I can't imagine how difficult it must be to be a young woman today having to deal w/ dudes who play such crap.

Our culture has hit a new low. As in 1984....'War is Peace.' 'Death is Freedom.'

Any 'progressive' who believes these types of videos are OK....isn't a progressive person.

I've read that the military uses these types of videos in Iraq....gets them all riled up before heading out on their detail. And we wonder why they all come home with PTSD. Just think what the women enduring this violence must feel...Double PTSD?
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zappaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #234
241. what a load of horseshit
I am a progressive and I think these type of videos have a right to exist.
you have the right not to purchase or play them.
Part of being progressive is understanding the first ammendment...which you obviously don't.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #234
243. Reality check.
"I can't imagine how difficult it must be to be a young woman today having to deal w/ dudes who play such crap."

In all likelihood, you DO deal with more than one person who "plays such crap" in their free time. You don't have a clue that they do, because they don't have horns or smell of sulphur.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #243
261. Reality back at you....
I can guarantee you that I don't. Given today's 'culture' and high levels of willful ignorance, I'm pretty much a recluse.

I'd rather be around animals than 99% of the people in my part of the country. Having and using one's brain is a curse today.
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #243
336. They do, however, frequently wear Hollister shirts
and smell like Natty Light.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #234
253. I gotta say
the last paragraph is BS as someone who went over there. However, I don't know what it is like in every unit but it couldn't have an effect of PTSD. PTSD comes from serious psychological trauma that I never heard coming from video games. Things like war, experiencing a death, physical or sexual assault, etc.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #253
262. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #262
263. We didn't watch violent videos either
or ones that were organized by our unit. Like I said I can't speak for every unit because I was only in 1.

24 for IQ? Nice personal attack. For some reason I never picked up personal attacks from video games or videos.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
236. Geez, the first checkbox is working overtime in this one.
:nuke:
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
238. I have no idea who could possibly enjoy or be interested in stuff like this?
That there is a market for this is troubling.

Make it illegal? No, I don't think so.

But if I were forced to associate with someone who was showing an interest in this stuff I would keep a very close eye on them.

Very close.

Don
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themadstork Donating Member (797 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #238
299. Do you feel the same way about those who watch the various serial killer shows?
Very troubling.
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Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
244. Art is a difficult thing at times.
I had an epiphany when it came to art. There were times when I looked at or took in a form of "art" and would think to myself "Who the hell likes this garbage" or "This is sick" or even "What does this do for someone who looks/plays/uses/listens to/etc... this crap."

This epiphany came after a visit to MOMA in NY. There was an exhibit where there were just a bunch of naked people positioned around the museum. They would stand perfectly still and stare off into space. I'm a bit of a prude so it bugged me to the point where it dominated my experience at the museum. In almost every doorway, hallway and exhibit room, was a naked person. When I was trying to take in art that I wanted to see I found myself feeling very uncomfortable at the notion that there was a naked person standing in the same room. I left quite pissed at the exhibit.

Then the epiphany hit me when I asked myself a question. "What is art?" When I answered that question, I no longer found myself detesting any form of art. Sure I still choose what to, and what not to expose myself to, but I do not detest it.

I cannot detest this form of art, but I can choose not to experience it. And, if I was exposed to it, I would not question it, nor would I detest it for what it is... Art.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
246. Remind me not to buy this video game
However, the first ammendment is the first ammendment.

You don't fuck with it, OK?
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
247. I play alot of games, and I have to admit, this is pretty twisted
and the game is junk... check out the reviews.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
254. Desensitization of the species.
Amazing how many, even here, find these things a form of entertainment.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #254
258. I would like to respond to your short but thoughtful post by including this quote-
"Be the change you want to see in the world".
- Mahatma Gandhi


If you want to see Peace, then create Peace in your own environment. If you want to see women respected, then respect women around you and in general.

Saying you want Peace but then habitually playing violent video games, for instance, is hypocritical and counter-productive.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #258
264. Pardon me.
Is the point of your response to my post suggesting that I play these games? Where did you get that idea?
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TNLib Donating Member (683 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
260. Sounds like a terrible game
I really enjoy playing video games and won't say anything bad about them. I especially enjoy the more adult oriented rpg games. But I wouldn't let my kid play anything like the games that I play.
I play adult oriented video games at Night after my child goes to bed.

As a women I also don't pass judgment on others who play violent games. My best friends are gamers and they are the most non violent men (geeks) I've ever known.

I guess my point is this game does sound terrible and lame but I wouldn't pass judgment on the Duke Nukem fans that would enjoy playing this game.
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
265. Zero Punctuation skewers DNF... twice
Edited on Tue Jun-28-11 08:29 PM by 0rganism
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
271. Where is the 'rape' aspect to which you are referring?
I just watched the vids and to me, it is similar to what happens in ALIENS; victims are collected and used as host for more xenomorphs.
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davepc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #271
274. Well the orginal ALIENS was a rape metaphore in of itself
So there's that.

The whole thing is an embarrassment to everyone involved.

Shit game from a shit studio.

Just part and parcel of the incompetent leadership at 3dRealms that it took 15+ years to get out to door after a lawsuit and sale of the IP.

Shit game with shit writing.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #274
287. No, it wasn't, quite.
The first victim seen onscreen being killed by an Alien birth was a man, in the dinner scene from the original "Alien". In "Aliens", it was a woman, and in Alien3, it was a dog.

Alien Resurrection was an entirely different animal best not spoken of in the full light of day. ;)
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davepc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #287
301. the victims being men was in fact the point
The creature is a metaphor for rape. The director and the designer of the creature have said as much.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #301
303. The creators (O'Bannon specifically) were a tiny bit more specific
Interspecies alien rape... via the mouth... with a decided life cycle.

It's certainly not what the hysterics on this thread are equaling it to. My point was, Alien did almost exactly this, did it first, did it a long time ago, and there really wasn't much controversy.
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #287
310. I am well versed in the ALIEN franchise...
Edited on Wed Jun-29-11 08:24 PM by and-justice-for-all
and I have never thought for a second that 'rape' was being suggested. I do not sit and over anaylize a movie, I simply want to watch it and enjoy it, which I do with the ALIEN franchise and others.

But ones the picture has been painted for me, http://www.cracked.com/article_18932_alien-film-franchi... I can now see it, but it does not change my view of the films.
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #274
309. I guess if that is something your looking for, your going to see it..
but I am a huge fan of the ALIEN frnachise and I have never come to the conclusion that you reached; I can not agree that there was any rape metaphor in the franchise.

The game maybe something that you find offensive, but as violent as it is, it is a matter of parenting.
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Supply Side Jesus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
276. **YAWN**
wake me up when something substantial come ups....
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #276
279. Of course....Nothing is "substantial" if it's only about females, is it?
Wake me when you get a conscience. :boring:
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #279
282. No, it's "substantial" when an OP doesn't need to be extremely deceitful to gain attention.
If this were truly an issue, such lies and invalid comparisons wouldn't need to be made.
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Supply Side Jesus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #279
302. of course, but you never make a peep when it's males
hypocrite, double standard, but this doesn't surprise me. conscience indeed.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #302
320. Oh yeah....Those poor, oppressed males...All the "peeps" they've been missing!
:rofl:

Ever hear of "false equivalence", sweetie?
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #302
344. dur
You have the very views of a misogynists... I'm a man, and I think your statement is a red herring. Don't stand up for guys.... thanks.
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Liquorice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #279
311. Yep, I've seen a lot of that around here. nt
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JesterCS Donating Member (627 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
298. errr. anyone
who has played Duke Nukem knows thats the staple of the story. Aliens steal the women to impregnate them. They game has a mature rating, and while yes, graphic. Doesnt make me want to go out and rape someone with tentacles. Video games in my eye are pure fiction and entertainment. Anyone who thinks Video games emulate real life has serious mental problems.
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themadstork Donating Member (797 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
300. Would like to point out that there's a difference between genuinely feminist analysis and
hamfisted moralist grandstanding.



For starters, the one is way older than the other.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #300
312. How does one clutch pearls with hamfists?
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #300
322. And as a male
Can you tell me what feminist books and essays

you have read to discern the difference?

Studies show that most men and boys refuse

reading even fiction authored by women

let alone "genuine feminist analysis".
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
315. Worse atrocity----the SCOTUS giving foreign companies unlimited "free speech" rights in elections.

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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #315
323. Sure, change the subject
That will work. :eyes:
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Scout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #315
329. so start a thread about it! oh, you don't really think it's that bad, tho, right?
you just want to be snotty about THIS op.

transparent
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #315
332. I lol'd
However, I'm afraid many will miss your point, and continue with the moral panic on this thread.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #332
333. it is disgust. it has nothing to do with this morality others use to shut people up
pure and simple disgust seeing naked women hung upside down to be shot dead. maybe you all ought to get off the moral issue crap. unless all vulgar and trash is going to be tied into morality. sometimes it is just calling trash what it is.
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #333
339. Duke Nukem
It's not meant to be taken seriously. It's not a political statement or attempt to dehumanize or belittle women. Duke Nukem is just a character in an absurdest / satirical land besieged by aliens. It's all supposed to be extremely cheesy and ridiculous, to the point where it makes you cringe. Duke Nukem is also supposed to be extremely offensive, to the point where you stare at the game for a couple of seconds and say "wtf is this shit?"

The title relies on cringe-worthy laughter, kind of like shows like Family Guy, where some of the content is so offensive and ridiculous that you either get pissed off, laugh, or both.

DNF is less easy to forgive, however, because it's a very bad and unfun game. If the game were actually funny, people would forgive it more. For example, with that "Hive" level with the suffering women, it was terrible because human suffering is never funny. There's no potential for humor there, not even cringe-worthy, dark dark humor.

It's not supposed to be taken seriously in the least bit. Getting offended at Duke Nukem would be like getting offended at Family Guy - it's the dumbest form of humor possible, so it's really not even worth analyzing.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #339
341. Family Guy is a good comparison
One of the funniest episodes of Family Guy opened with a scene with a racist sunflower. The sunflower made me cringe, not laugh, but the rest of the episode was great.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #341
343. and we dont watch it. we dont find it funny. we dont desensitize ourselves to ugly
to the point where it becomes acceptable and our society rears it ugly sexist, racist, homophobic head.... again. and i think the family guy, the jackasses, the nukems, the snookies all feed that in our society.

then, we have progressives tell us that if we dare to not want the shit in our life, if we dare to challenge the trash that is produced, we are pearl clutchers, prudes, or moralist.

my brother, who has lived in the gutter, raised kids in that gutter, have one in juvie, another two kids, two men at 20 and working on another, and another son member of some gang, lectured me..... that i just dont live in his world. he told me.... "i am not insulting you, but you do not see the same thing i do".

why the fuck is it an insult to me, that i refuse to have the crap in my life.

i have worked hard for years.... to not live in trash.

i dont apologize because i think this is perverted shit, or trashy shit and i dont want it in my life.

yet there is a group on du, that think they are oh so cool, so hip, so progressive, so fuckin awesome cause they watch the shows that are about degrading and dehumanizing other people.

and what a laugh.... ha ha ha.

not funny
not entertaining

and as much as you all have the right to defend, watch and participate

i have the right to say it is trash.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #343
351. I'm not sure how to respond
I'll give it a shot. You have every right not to watch and every right to criticize any form of entertainment. I believe in freedom of choice & freedom of speech. I do think the point at least when it comes to Family Guy is it is not meant to be taken seriously. Regardless of what is in the show I know Seth MacFarlane is a progressive and vocal supporter of LGBT rights. Also the show has a diverse following, not just white straight males watch the show.

Personally, Family Guy is not a show I often watch. I'm more of a Simpsons guy. Not a fan of Jackass, some of the stunts & skits they do is funny but I'm turned off that they often go to gross humor such as eating an animal's penis. I don't watch Jersey Show and will probably never play Duke Nukem.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #351
352. sigh....
not talking about you personally.

out of all the people to rant at, you are one of the few that does not deserve it because of your balanced approach. lol
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #339
342. it is meant to offend, it offends, then people want others to not be offended. waht sense does that
make. it is like howard stern or rude pundit that works so damn hard to be offensive. them when people are offended, their fans defend them. ridiculous. at the very least call it what it is.

the WHOLE game is meant to dehumanize women. that is the character of the man they created.

it is trash.

you dont want to be offended, your right. but i have the right to say it is trash, gutter, perverted, disgusting..... hanging naked women upside down to kill. if those 7 words do not make you cringe, it is what i feel on the desensitizing of our society that is doing us so much damage. that goes beyond this game. that we see being fed upon all over our society.
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toddaa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
316. I love horror movies
I'm a sick fuck.

Oh wait. This is a video game thread. I'm in the wrong moral outrage line.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #316
327. That's nice...
:boring:
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
324. "The liberal mind is fiercely obdurate when it comes to the treatment of women"
Susan Brownmiller, author "Against Our Will"
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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #324
345. Maybe you'd be taken seriously...
if you could prove that this is an issue about the treatment of women, or effects the treatment of women in a negative way, and is not just entertainment.

It would also help if the OP wasn't mostly hyperbole and falsehood.

I would have to say that the sudden outrage at this game shows selective outrage. Men are the "victims" much more often in video games than women, if you believe the whole "video games make people do things" line of reasoning, I would have expected a lot more outrage way before this game came out.

What it usually comes down to though, is that a lot of the people most outraged have little understanding of video games and never play them. I guess if you have never watched a movie, your first violent movie you saw would shock and outrage you.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #345
346. beck and oreilly are merely entertainment. surely you would not argue
they influence peoples thinking process?
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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #346
348. They are the truth to many people...
however, somehow I doubt that anyone who plays DNF thinks of it as anything but entertainment. Fox News is entertainment to you and me, but to many people, it is deadly serious. That's the difference.

DNF is selling horribly. Do you know why? Not because of its shock value and offensive nature, which it has had forever. But because it is a boring video game that is not entertaining. Entertainment is all that really matters for gamers and most video games, though preferences vary greatly by genre. That's because it is not taken seriously. It is, indeed, a "game". Not news.

There are some genres and games that are becoming much better at storytelling, so that you feel for the characters and that have superb writing and really cause the player to make gut-wrenching choices. I have heard "Rain" is one of those games.

DNF is just a shooter. And compared to other shooters nowadays, it's bad. So they try to make it up by living off the legacy of the game as being one of the first shooters and playing up the tacky trademarks of the game, including the now tired "unpc" over-the-top main character that was such a huge controversy in the 90s, who is now seen more like a relic. Back in the day the "Simpsons" was thought of as controversial and edgy. DNF just looks like it is in a mid-life crisis and "trying too hard" if you know what I mean.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #348
349. misogynism is very real, very much a part of too many mens lives. and this feeds it.
Edited on Thu Jun-30-11 07:05 PM by seabeyond
it may be entertainment to you to shoot naked women hung upside in a most vulnerable and humiliating manner, but not entertaining to me.
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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #349
353. I didn't buy the game...
and that is just part of the story, like countless other stories, and not the main source of "entertainment". Shooters are entertaining because of the challenge and tactics and strategy and, to a degree, the graphics, none of which DNF has much of. Story is rarely a big emphasis, like most action movies. So you get stupid, overdone premises like women being impregnated by aliens.

I don't know if this feeds a man's views of women. That is quite an assumption to make. If the game is seen as a "game" and as purely entertainment, it is hard to see how it would have much of an impact on how women are viewed. And its lack of popularity at the very least shows that misogyny is not the driving factor of whether men want to play the game or not.

Considering its mature rating, any mentally stable adult male who plays the game would understand the context of the DNF series and how it is intentionally over the top.

All it comes down to is that parenting matters much more than any video game or other form of media does.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #353
354.  parenting matters much more than any video game or other form of media does
Edited on Thu Jun-30-11 07:23 PM by seabeyond
i will agree with you on this, lol.

my husband didnt know about the crap. read up on the game and wasnt going to buy because like you adn many say, it is a crappy game, with crappy reviews. but... if game was marked higher, he would have done research and not bought the game because of the storyline of misogyny. and it is not just that one scene. there are many. go further into it, the door is a crotch that opens, boobs to knock around. it is thru out the video. as a critic says, creepy and hateful to women.
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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #354
358. Or just hypersexualized...
I mean, if the main character is an egotistic ladies man and the game uses extreme humor, it's not surprising to me that they made an alien door that looks like a vagina (along with the wise cracks by Duke). I would say that it's not creepy and hateful so much as just juvenile, like jokes fifth graders would make. Duke is a misogynist, it is his character, and he is a caricature of the macho dude from 80s action movies. Caricatures can say and do offensive things.

The creators were intentionally going for offensive and controversial to sell the game. I just have a hard time buying controversy that is intentionally manufactured as part of a marketing strategy too seriously.

Most gamers would find the game boring, that's why they didn't buy it. Juvenile sexual jokes and pixelated boobs don't titillate adults. But Duke is a cult classic for many hardcore gamers because of its history and this game is famous for being in development for 14 years, so those who buy it are probably doing it more out of nostalgia and respect for the history of the series than anything else, and the series has always been pushing the envelope and "edgy", though this time it seems stale by now.

I would say the game is poking fun and itself, and you are supposed to laugh at how ridiculous it is, because it is.

If people find it offensive, fine, but I don't think there is much of a danger of it spreading creepy views to people who play it.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #345
355. Maybe you would be taken seriously
if you weren't such an obvious "fan"

of these mindless adolescent boy toys.

You might score more points playing in Mom's basement

than you are on this board, because as you MAY

have noticed there's a rather obvious

male-female split on this thread regarding them.
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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #355
359. Thanks for the personal attacks...
Like I was saying, it's hard to take this seriously when you refuse to show how people who play this game will be corrupted by it.

And when you resort to personal attacks right away, it makes your argument look even weaker.

The split I see is mostly between people familiar with the history of Duke Nukem and those who are not.

Do you like being a bully or something?

I like this one line thing.

Hope you feel better.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-11 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #359
361. and thank you for yours as well.
Edited on Fri Jul-01-11 06:23 PM by whathehell
"Like I was saying, it's hard to take this seriously when you refuse to show how people who play this game will be corrupted by it".

The question of the players being "corrupted" is not the entire issue here.

Imagine, for instance, that this game, instead of featuring pregnant women, featured Blacks awaiting a lynching by Bad White Guys...These bad white guys

get killed, but not before they lynch the black guys.

Here's another scenario...How 'bout a game which features Jews being about to be shoved in overns by Bad Guy Nazis....The nazis are eventually killed, but not

before the Jews are burned in the overns......Would you find any of that offensive?

I certainly would, and I'm neither Jewish nor Black.

The whole CONCEPT of making a game of killing "pregnant, powerless, weeping women", is like making a game of killing those once (and to an extent, still) powerless minorities is in ITSELF insulting and hurtful....Regardless of the "effect" on the men playing it.

When you make a "game" of hurting the "weaker" who in real life ARE hurt on a consistent basis

by the "stronger", it's shows NO respect for them or their feelings.
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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-11 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #361
362. Your examples are poor comparisons...
I don't see what would be wrong with a game that depicts events that actually happened. Black people were lynched. Jews were killed en masse. Context would matter of course, but nothing makes having those in a video game automatically offensive. No more so than having them in movies, books, etc. Sure, it could be made offensive in any media context.

However, this is just pure fantasy, aliens invading and trying to take over the world. Have aliens ever attacked and raped women? No.

The whole concept of this game is not to kill women. That is where your strawman pops up.

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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-11 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #362
363. I think not...but even if they were, the fact that you think it would be "okay"
to have games featuring Blacks being lynched

and Jews being gassed, tells me all I need to

know about your naivete and lack of maturity.

I'm afraid you'll have to either learn more

or live longer in order to have a conversation

on this topic which could, in your words,

be taken seriously.

Happy trails, bro...You have some

growing up to do. :hi:

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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-11 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #363
364. Heh, maturity...
speaking of which, I guess you better stay away from R rated movies, much less lots of books, that do indeed show and talk about lynchings and the Holocaust. I guess the subject matter is too mature for you.

Like I said, it is all in context. Why video games should be off limits for exploring historical subjects seems rather perplexing to me. Certainly, movies and books are able to. Your inconsistency doesn't add up.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-11 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #364
365. If you think we should have video games depicting lynching of Blacks and gassing of Jews
Edited on Fri Jul-01-11 09:41 PM by whathehell
I'd suggest you ask DUers their opinion,

especially Jewish and African American DUers.

You could perhaps make it a poll.

Go ahead....Their feedback might tell you something.
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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-11 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #365
366. Do you think there should be movies showing such?
Or books? If so, why not video games, or any other sort of medium?

You keep trying to change the subject and make strawmen, and it's kinda getting predictable now.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-02-11 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #366
368. if/when there are movies showing sick, perverted misogynist shit, then i will speak up and out about
Edited on Sat Jul-02-11 09:38 AM by seabeyond
them as much as i do about computer games that have misogynist shit that feeds our society.

it is not a matter of allowing

it is a matter of calling them out. it is a matter of society saying this is not entertainment, it is sick perverted misogynist shit and i have no interest in watching or playing it.

people dont buy, producers dont make.

not making illegal. the problem with this issue, is whenever people come out and call it trash.... you and others start claiming, you want to make it illegal. no one said illegal. but we do have the right to call it trash without being labeled prude, pearl clutcher, swooning on a couch.

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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
334. Gods on Olympus the nerd rage in this thread is delicious.
Edited on Thu Jun-30-11 02:53 PM by sudopod
NO, DON'T TAKE AWAY MAH ALIEN RAPE! WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?!

I cut my teeth on Mortal Kombat, but this is an all-round travesty, and pointing that out doesn't make the OP Just Like Hitler(TM).

Maybe if Sony could get the PSN back up then the kids have something else to do. :3
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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #334
347. i find it hilarious...
you think this is somehow worse than "Mortal Kombat". It's certainly no worse than countless sci-fi movies.

It's a tacky, bad game. But I fail to see the selective controversy being generated here when so many other games, movies, books, etc. throughout history have had this or worse.
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #347
350. Did you read the article? That's all the OP said.
Edited on Thu Jun-30-11 07:14 PM by sudopod
He said it sucked ass and that the sociopath humor was over-the-top. I guess that makes him the head Censorship Nazi who wants to destroy your freedom to break into bases and kill dudes.

The overreaction is hilarious in a tragically nerdy way. Sometimes, games are just bad, and it is OK to say so. It isn't a betrayal of Bill of Rights to say so. ;)
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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #350
357. The article said that...
the joke was "rape" and the implication of many of the responses on here is that anyone that plays such a game is "sick". Yet, sociopathic behavior is on all of those mainstream crime shows every night, along with a hefty dose of violence, but you never hear people say that those who watch it are somehow sociopaths themselves.

I agree that the game is bad, but I just think that the characterization of it as some sort of corrupting evil that celebrates rape and will influence young men to do horrible things is an old tired canard that we heard throughout the 90s. I think some of the fear of the game's effect on society is an overreaction is all, based on no evidence, and with some evidence actually pointing the other way. I have no problem with people's opinion on the game as entertainment.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
337. Correction: "hanged." n/t
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