Serious question

[SDuderstadt]

It's often claimed here that both the House and Senate are controlled by corporations. Some go so far as to claim that every member of congress is "bought and paid for".

If that's actually the case, wouldn't every vote be unanimous? I mean, if there is no difference between Republicans and Democrats, why are there such profound differences in the comparative votes?

[Kurmudgeon]

1. Different corporations, differences in their wants and needs.

[SDuderstadt]

2. Facepalm

[riderinthestorm]

9. While it's not a universal, it's a known fact that some politicians are notoriously

bought and paid for by various special interests, typically related to their own investments or interests. Cheney and Big Oil, Frist and Big Pharma, Phil Gramm and Wall St, Bushes and the Middle East oil cartels, etc. etc.

Their votes and the legislation they drive are reflective of their specific corporate master.

[Rex]

11. That is a pretty good answer...probably get a stupid picture

for your efforts.

[demmiblue]

35. .

:rofl:

[Rex]

38. It's the dude!

DUDE! :rofl:

[riderinthestorm]

44. .

}(

[Rex]

46. So...

Now I am curious...what congress person do you think is owned by what product, since we all believe McDonalds owns the WH.

Wendys for VP!!! :P

And we all know Ronald secretly believes the Ds and Rs are just pawns in the game of Monopoly.

It is all but certain.

:dunce:

[demmiblue]

47. .

[riderinthestorm]

43. Yeah, wasn't really expecting an answer.... nt

[fishwax]

49. lol n/t

[hootinholler]

40. Fail

[Rex]

7. Eggxactly.

Why would a toilet paper mogul want what a digital pad fab owner wants? Maybe we are lucky they don't all want the same thing.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Gregorian]

3. Can I take a stab/guess at this?

I think the majority of corporate lobbying sways votes to the right. I was thinking of the Iraq war resolution, but that is not typical. Then I thought about Feinstein's votes versus her personal corporate interest in the war, and that's also not typical.

So I'm making a guess on how this might work. I want to see this get enough recs to have discussion.

[SDuderstadt]

5. Me too n/t

[lunatica]

4. Some people say both parties are exactly the same

Ralph Nader for one. Many here on DU too.

[SDuderstadt]

6. And many here are...

simply wrong.

[Cirque du So-What]

55. 'And many here are...simply wrong.'

That's a synopsis of your entire posting history on DU, dude. SSDD.

[sufrommich]

10. Most aren't beholden to corporations,however many are swayed

by industries in their own states. Even Thaddeus McCotter leaves the UAW alone.

[SDuderstadt]

13. Yep n/t

[whatchamacallit]

12. Yes, congress only ever acts out of conscience and principle

and is never influenced by contributions or gifts... :crazy:

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rex]

15. Good one!

:rofl:

[demmiblue]

18. Some people are naive. n/t

[SDuderstadt]

19. And some people submit...

silly strawman arguments.

[demmiblue]

23. Lol...

:*

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SDuderstadt]

26. Show me where I said that...

dude.

[Cali_Democrat]

16. American Democracy is broken

The damage may be irreversible at this point. The only option may be fleeing to another country like Canada or Finland. They are much better countries in which to live.

[SDuderstadt]

17. That's not the question I asked n/t

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dj13Francis]

20. Two things to say about that.

There is one guy, Dennis Kucinich, who isn't bought and paid for.

Secondly, there are a lot of different corporations out there, with competing interests. Some are owned by the banks, some by big oil, some by chemical manufacturers(dumpers)... They don't always agree...

[SDuderstadt]

21. Do you see where your argument is...

going?

[LiberalAndProud]

22. I know you ask this in seriousness, but I think the question is specious.

If money buys influence, the more of it you have, the more influence you can exert. Ergo, GE's personhood is better, more important, and certainly more powerful than mine. I don't understand how this concept could be hard to grasp.

[SDuderstadt]

25. That's hardly what I am...

asking.

I am hardly claiming that corporations don't have undue influence.

[Rex]

28. And now the backtracking.

:eyes:

[SDuderstadt]

32. Oh, Rex!

I'm sorry! I forgot you were there.

You may go now.

[Rex]

34. See post 6.

:eyes:

[LiberalAndProud]

30. Okay, then let's talk about choreography.

Let's say Corporation XYZ wants a certain piece of legislation passed, does the entire Congress need to vote "yea" to achieve that? Clearly the answer would be no. But there can be much manipulation and calculation going on behind the scenes to minimize political fallout at the polls while still ensuring that the bill becomes a law.

You would be hard pressed to convince me that this doesn't happen for every piece of legislation that one corporation or another deems important.

[SDuderstadt]

41. I'd like you to...

convince me.

[LiberalAndProud]

42. Convince you of what?

That they make deals on Capital Hill? Darling, if you don't already believe it, I don't think I can convince you.

[SDuderstadt]

45. This....

"You would be hard pressed to convince me that this doesn't happen for every piece of legislation that one corporation or another deems important".

Have you never seen legislation that got passed over the objections of industry? How about the Affordable Care Act? Dodd-Frank?

[LiberalAndProud]

48. Even these "victories" were affected, and I believe you know it.

The Affordable Care Act didn't even begin debate until major concessions had already been made by the President himself. Big pharma and big insurance put an indelible print on the discussion, and Obama's actions underline my point. For all the lip service that the public option got early on, it went no where. Why is that?

The Frank-Dodd act is a piece of watered down legislation that doesn't even begin to address the underlying problems we know about in the financial sector, let alone those we might find if we even cared to look. But it makes it look really good after the far more important Glass-Stegal act was repealed, that is if you don't pay attention. I can't find a satisfactory explanation for the repeal except that Corporations wanted it. Maybe you can explain it to me.

If not for the influence of multinational corporations, we would have had much MUCH better legislation, of that I am certain.

[SDuderstadt]

50. Do you understand the legislative process?

Do you realize that most bills that get introduced die a quiet death?

Again, no one is arguing that corporations don't exercise undue influence. However, as long as the majority of American citizens choose not to be involved in the political/electoral process, and as long as we do not reform the campaign finance system, we'll continue have issues. But, in my opinion, it;s simply not true that corporations control Congress.

[LiberalAndProud]

51. Most bills that get introduced die a quiet death.

Yes, I know that. The ones that are underwritten by the Koch Brothers or some Scaife foundation -- those usually make it all the way to full fledged law. Isn't that wonderful?

[SDuderstadt]

53. Please prove that...

you're engaging in a lot of begging the question.

[OneGrassRoot]

29. I'm very jaded ...

I don't feel every single politician at the national level is "bought and paid for," but I do believe most are, to varying degrees.

I echo what others have said, in answer to your question, which is that different corporations/lobbies have different interests and thus different requirements which could explain the lack of unanimity in the voting process.

My most skeptical comment in response to your question is that I think at this point we're basically witnessing kabuki theatre. They go through the motions of it appearing to be a representative democracy, and when certain bills already have the votes to pass (usually in favor of "big oil/pharma/insurance/etc.), certain members are then given the freedom to vote in a way that's pleasing to their constituents...to maintain appearances. I also think that for many career politicians, their vote literally goes to the highest bidder.

As Cenk so astutely noted this evening, "Our politicians are no longer interested in where the votes are coming from, they're interested in where the money is coming from."

The campaign finance process and "lobbyists gone wild" environment has created and nurtured this monster, so even the most principled politician can eventually get caught up in this ethically corrupt system.

It's really second nature now for DC as a whole, in my humble opinion.

:(

[Rex]

31. No one does, this is just more flamebait.

NO DUr thinks every politican is controlled by corporations, it was just an effort to get a fight started, nothing more.

[SDuderstadt]

33. You wanna bet on that...

dude?

[Rex]

36. See post 6.

:eyes:

[SDuderstadt]

37. You may have the last...

emoticon, dude.

[Rex]

39. I know.

:hi:

[Raine]

52. Do you think they would be that obvious. EVERYONE would be on to

that. People actually knowing exactly what is going on would be dangerous to the overall plan. :yoiks:

[SDuderstadt]

54. Do you understand what the...

OCE does?