Sam Stein (HuffPo): Obama Believes Gay Marriage 'Best Addressed By The States': WH Official

[markpkessinger]

States' rights -- from the nation's first black president. You just can't make this stuff up.

"Although the President believes that this is an issue best addressed by the states, he also firmly believes that committed gay and lesbian couples should receive equal protection under the law," the official said.

Respect for states' rights with regards to marriage is a position shared by many prominent officials and politicians, including Republicans like Dick Cheney. While it falls far short of a full-throated endorsement of same-sex marriage -- a gap that will keep LGBT activists rankled -- as it comes just days before Thursday gala, the White House official's statement offers both an indication of where Obama's evolution currently stands and a hint as to how the president will handle the inquiries that will be coming his way.

Obama is reportedly looking for politically comfortable ways to take a more open stance on same-sex marriage. Stressing states' rights, with a basic federal guarantee of benefits for same-sex couples, could be the path he's looking for.

Read full article at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/21/white-house-obama-gay-marriage-states_n_880993.html

[Crankie Avalon]

1. Making the tough decision, as usual. The buck stops...somewhere else. n/t

[xchrom]

2. indeed. nt

[me b zola]

3. Can you imagine Obama as president if civil rights had been handled this way?

Yeah, there wouldn't have been a president Obama

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gratuitous]

4. Uh, you can't have equal protection with unequal laws

But I'm sure that this pronouncement is the most sensible and reasonable formulation, and besides, if President Obama came right out and endorsed same sex marriage, can you imagine how many votes he would lose from people who would cut off their hand before casting a ballot for him? You libruls are just a bunch of latte-sipping pony lovers, that's all you are!

[WinkyDink]

5. Where have I heard of "Separate but equal" before?

[Unvanguard]

6. Forget "best," same-sex marriage is necessarily addressed by states.

This is just another evasion. He should be glad that that's the case; it keeps him from having to offer a more concrete answer.

[Angry Dragon]

7. A bold and courageous decision by the President

[City Lights]

8. Way to take a stand, Mr. President!

Ugh.

[markpkessinger]

10. I think this line from the article pretty well sums it up ...

"Obama is reportedly looking for politically comfortable ways to take a more open stance on same-sex marriage. "

[Vanje]

9. States fucking Rights!!???

Cowardly

[FiveGoodMen]

11. Not on our side.

Clearly never was.

[Doctor_J]

17. Not on ANY side

he makes Bill Clinton look like Churchill

[no limit]

29. Wall street is doing just fine. And I don't think it's an accident. This president has taken sides

[fascisthunter]

12. Should we leave everyone's rights up to the State, or just gays

fucking absurd and cowardly.

[gkhouston]

14. Craven weasel. n/t

[Ignis]

15. Get your fierce advocacy while it's hot!

:thumbsdown:

[Doctor_J]

16. Wow

I will say that from my view there is almost nothing he says these days that's worth hearing.

[madrchsod]

19. agree...i`m going to help the democrat who`s running for the house

obama does`t need us anymore

[Doctor_J]

22. Yes, he's decided to take what he can get from us, and scrape together

some teabagger votes and Wall Street money to get re-elected.

[SoCalDem]

18. Only grist for the "states-rights" mills

Why even HAVE the "United" States of America, if the "edgy" issues are "left to the states".. That;s one main reason all these issues never get solved.. The revolving-door politics that flips from party dominance to OTHER party dominance every few years, we have nothing but UNdoing the previous administration's efforts, and nothing ever really gets solved..:grr:

[myrna minx]

20. Now that's some fierce advocacy.

:-(

[Dappleganger]

21. Anyone who says that civil rights should be left up to the states is not a democrat.

[no limit]

32. Saddly you will find this is the position of the democratic establishment

so maybe it's time to leave the party since the party had no problem leaving us?

[LiberalAndProud]

23. Even so, SCOTUS will decide.

Marriage law has historically been left to the states until the laws have been deemed unconstitutional by the courts (Loving v. Virgina). I appreciate Obama's "equal protection" disclaimer, and I will hope that he keeps this in mind as he considers candidates for judcial positions as opportunities arise.

[justiceischeap]

27. The Repubs are blocking his nominees for this reason and so many others

at this point in their Presidencies, Clinton and W had 144 judges approved, but Obama has only been allowed 86 (it was on Rachel last night). They're trying to keep the vacancies vacant so they can't be filled by a Dem. Same thing is happening with agency positions.

[LiberalAndProud]

30. I can only agree.

[no limit]

31. And when Bush got his 144 he wasn't happy, he was going to shut down the entire senate

what threats has Obama made? absolutely none.

[LiberalAndProud]

35. The silent acquiescence is hard to understand. I don't get it.

Best case scenario is that he is very optimistic about 2012. I realize he's encountered obstinate opposition in almost every endeavor, and that's got to be a factor. Still ...

[justiceischeap]

36. I remember the whole filibuster threat about this too. nt

[Doctor_J]

24. Deleted

Bitter snark aimed at a true believer.

[justiceischeap]

26. Careful, you could get deleted for calling out another member. nt

[Doctor_J]

28. yeah, I thought of that after I posted

I am deleting

[justiceischeap]

25. I'm gonna have to hold my nose to vote for him again.

I hate that I have to put aside my fight for equality for the better of the nation. I hate voting against my own well-being.

[JAnthony]

69. I think a lot of us will hold our nose, but I sure hope we vote! n/t

[PoliticAverse]

33. I suspect his position will further 'evolve' after the 2012 election. n/t

[KittyWampus]

34. Funny, this was Howard Dean's position. Howard Dean- the darling of DU.

[no limit]

37. What exactly is your point?

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[no limit]

53. So are you upset over Obama's position on this or no?

[KittyWampus]

61. No. Here's something for you-Obama’s Views on Gay Marriage ‘Evolving’

Obama’s Views on Gay Marriage ‘Evolving’- Looking For Way To Support Same Sex Marriage.

Edited on Tue Jun-21-11 05:00 PM by KittyWampus
Funny thing- Howard Dean was a "states rights" kind of guy when it came to Gay Marriage and running for POTUS. And many, many liberals support him and his evolution on this issue.

Huffington Post posted this SAME story put no one seems to acknowledge that Obama IS EVOLVING JUST THE WAY DEAN DID. This is clearly written in the NYTimes story.

Seems convenient to leave that out when posting the HuffPost version.

Obama’s Views on Gay Marriage ‘Evolving’
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG
Published: June 18, 2011
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/19/us/politics/19marriag...


Now President Obama says his views on same-sex marriage are “evolving,” and as he runs for re-election he is seeking support from gay donors who want to know where he stands.

snip

The White House would not comment on whether Mr. Obama was ready to endorse same-sex marriage. But one Democratic strategist close to the White House, speaking only on the condition of anonymity, said some senior advisers “are looking at the tactics of how this might be done if the president chose to do it.” And Representative Barney Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat who is gay, said in an interview that a top adviser to Mr. Obama, whom he would not name, asked him this year, “What would be the effect if he came out for same-sex marriage?”

snip

Many gay leaders say because the president has a strong record on issues they care about — prodding Congress to repeal the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy, which barred openly gay men and lesbians from serving in the military, and withdrawing legal support for the Defense of Marriage Act, which defines marriage as between a man and a woman — he is not under intense pressure to announce a change in his position before the 2012 election.

But with the political climate around gay rights changing drastically — a handful of recent polls show that Americans, by a slim majority, now support same-sex marriage — some strategists see little political cost to a shift in position......
snip

[no limit]

89. So you think gay rights should be up to the states? Was the civil rights act wrong then?

Or are the rights of some people more important than others?

[dbackjon]

92. Then you do NOT BELIEVE IN EQUALITY

Can I Vote on your rights?

Can I MAKE YOU A SECOND CLASS Citizen?





Either you support full equality NOW for all Americans, or you are a bigot. Plain and simple.


And yes, Obama is a bigot.

[TriMera]

57. Nice try at a diversion, but we're talking about the here and

now. We're talking about the person that we elected as POTUS and his current stand on the issue.

[KittyWampus]

65. Obama’s Views on Gay Marriage ‘Evolving’- from the NYTimes story HuffP. ripped off

ma’s Views on Gay Marriage ‘Evolving’- from NYTimes article HuffP. ripped off

Obama’s Views on Gay Marriage ‘Evolving’- Looking For Way To Support Same Sex Marriage.

Edited on Tue Jun-21-11 05:00 PM by KittyWampus
Funny thing- Howard Dean was a "states rights" kind of guy when it came to Gay Marriage and running for POTUS. And many, many liberals support him and his evolution on this issue.

Huffington Post posted this SAME story put no one seems to acknowledge that Obama IS EVOLVING JUST THE WAY DEAN DID. This is clearly written in the NYTimes story.

Seems convenient to leave that out when posting the HuffPost version.

Obama’s Views on Gay Marriage ‘Evolving’
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG
Published: June 18, 2011
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/19/us/politics/19marriag ...


Now President Obama says his views on same-sex marriage are “evolving,” and as he runs for re-election he is seeking support from gay donors who want to know where he stands.

snip

The White House would not comment on whether Mr. Obama was ready to endorse same-sex marriage. But one Democratic strategist close to the White House, speaking only on the condition of anonymity, said some senior advisers “are looking at the tactics of how this might be done if the president chose to do it.” And Representative Barney Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat who is gay, said in an interview that a top adviser to Mr. Obama, whom he would not name, asked him this year, “What would be the effect if he came out for same-sex marriage?”

snip

Many gay leaders say because the president has a strong record on issues they care about — prodding Congress to repeal the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy, which barred openly gay men and lesbians from serving in the military, and withdrawing legal support for the Defense of Marriage Act, which defines marriage as between a man and a woman — he is not under intense pressure to announce a change in his position before the 2012 election.

But with the political climate around gay rights changing drastically — a handful of recent polls show that Americans, by a slim majority, now support same-sex marriage — some strategists see little political cost to a shift in position......
snip

[justiceischeap]

40. What's his position now? I'll tell ya, he's completely evolved

2 years ago...

A boisterous crowd cheered former Gov. Howard Dean’s support of Freedom to Marry legislation and health care reform Saturday at a Vermont Democratic Party reception at the Hilton Burlington…

“Vote your conscience, not your district,“ he advised legislators.

“Stand up for doing the right thing; for being a human being,“ he continued. “Put human rights above politics—because if you don’t, you’ll regret it for the rest of your political career.“

http://www.marriageequalityri.org/blog/category/politics/P50/

[KittyWampus]

49. Aw, so he's "evolved". How nice. Easy to do when you're not actually IN elected politics anymore.

[justiceischeap]

93. Your subject line is the problem

They are all COWARDS because they wait until they are out of politics to evolve into supporting equality. I bet you can't even see the sadness of your own title beyond your blind support of Obama. It was Obama who has asked the LGBT*.* community to "hold his feet to the fire" on this issue yet many on DU complain when we do just that.

P.S. You can't move the bar on the Dean thing, you're the one that brought him up. I point out that he has evolved and then you try to rebut your own original statement by throwing "IN elected politics".

[KittyWampus]

63. Obama’s Views on Gay Marriage ‘Evolving’- from NYTimes article HuffP. ripped off

Obama’s Views on Gay Marriage ‘Evolving’- Looking For Way To Support Same Sex Marriage.

Edited on Tue Jun-21-11 05:00 PM by KittyWampus
Funny thing- Howard Dean was a "states rights" kind of guy when it came to Gay Marriage and running for POTUS. And many, many liberals support him and his evolution on this issue.

Huffington Post posted this SAME story put no one seems to acknowledge that Obama IS EVOLVING JUST THE WAY DEAN DID. This is clearly written in the NYTimes story.

Seems convenient to leave that out when posting the HuffPost version.

Obama’s Views on Gay Marriage ‘Evolving’
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG
Published: June 18, 2011
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/19/us/politics/19marriag ...


Now President Obama says his views on same-sex marriage are “evolving,” and as he runs for re-election he is seeking support from gay donors who want to know where he stands.

snip

The White House would not comment on whether Mr. Obama was ready to endorse same-sex marriage. But one Democratic strategist close to the White House, speaking only on the condition of anonymity, said some senior advisers “are looking at the tactics of how this might be done if the president chose to do it.” And Representative Barney Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat who is gay, said in an interview that a top adviser to Mr. Obama, whom he would not name, asked him this year, “What would be the effect if he came out for same-sex marriage?”

snip

Many gay leaders say because the president has a strong record on issues they care about — prodding Congress to repeal the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy, which barred openly gay men and lesbians from serving in the military, and withdrawing legal support for the Defense of Marriage Act, which defines marriage as between a man and a woman — he is not under intense pressure to announce a change in his position before the 2012 election.

But with the political climate around gay rights changing drastically — a handful of recent polls show that Americans, by a slim majority, now support same-sex marriage — some strategists see little political cost to a shift in position......
snip
Through this world I've wandered and seen lots of funny men; Some will rob you with a six-shooter, some with a fountain pen. And as through your life you travel, as t

[bowens43]

47. making excuses for him?

admit it, he's been a disaster.

[KittyWampus]

LOL!

[tomm2thumbs]

38. Bloomberg could teach him a thing or two

and that's saying a helluva lot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37IJW9H08N4&feature=player_detailpage#t=927s

[LiberalAndProud]

42. I would point out that Bloomberg is advocating for state law.

It may be unfortunate, but this is the stage. I don't see an alternative path.

[markpkessinger]

58. Advocating for a state law is not the same thing ...

... as saying the issue is "best left to the states." Of course, anyone who supports gay marriage would advocate for a state law in his or her state. But the President does not advocate gay marriage: he advocates the "separate-but-equal" solution of civil unions, and even with regard to those, he is saying leave it up to the individual states.

[LiberalAndProud]

62. I just think we're focusing on the wrong issue at the national level.

It seems to be our energy would be better spent to apply some pressure to extend the language of the Civil Rights Act than to focus on venues historically reserved for states.

[tomm2thumbs]

67. I think the video at the article link was quite informative

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GknRjbq86ak

[LiberalAndProud]

75. Yea, there is that.

Actually, I believe Obama's team when they say he "has always been against gay marriage". I do always try to give the benefit of the doubt where Obama is concerned, but his public stance on gay marriage has always seemed to be patronizingly conciliatory in a really waffly kind of way.

Having said that, I still think that marriage is only one aspect of the struggle for equality, and marriage law may not be the best place to focus our attention at the national level.

[Taverner]

39. ((facepalm))

[Taverner]

41. "Buchanan Believes Slavery 'Best Addressed By The States' WH Official

...

[Vanje]

43. +1000! nt

[tomm2thumbs]

45. makes smart sense to me

((severe sarcasm warning))

:sarcasm:

[bowens43]

44. Cop out-in-chief does it again....................

Is there anything this guy will make a stand on?

[Behind the Aegis]

46. What a crock of shit! Not unexpected, but shit nonetheless.

Are you willing to put your marriage on the line, Mr. President?

"Fierce advocate," my cute gay ass! Someone get our president a fucking dictionary!

[TriMera]

51. and a history book. n/t

[Horse with no Name]

48. What a fucking coward. Business as usual.

So, I am left to be at the mercy of the assholes in Texas because "my President" is too fucking cowardly to attack social issues.

So...no doubt "choice" is going to be the next issue he throws back to the states. He might lose a fucking big donor if he were to actually take a stand on something except waging illegal wars that benefit them.

[Withywindle]

50. Pathetic.

Just fucking pathetic. Kick that can a little further down the road, why don't you, and not spare a moment's thought for the real people who are suffering in real time right now.

[markpkessinger]

54. The fierce urgency of whenever it is politically expedient! n/t

[hifiguy]

55. That doesn't really square with the "full faih & credit" clause

of the Constitution, does it?

[sufrommich]

56. Isn't this pretty much what he said during the primaries? nt

[Canuckistanian]

59. A Profile in Courage-iness

How bold and refreshing.

[theaocp]

60. Quite the

profile in courage.

[Behind the Aegis]

64. What about the cousin-fucking states?

Are their marriages going to get the 'Best Addressed By The States' treatment? Oh, wait, their not homosexuals, so no need to "evolve." :eyes:

[KittyWampus]

66. Funny, HuffPost ripped off NYTimes article that shows Obama looking TO SUPPORT GAY MARRIAGE

Obama’s Views on Gay Marriage ‘Evolving’- Looking For Way To Support Same Sex Marriage.

Edited on Tue Jun-21-11 05:04 PM by KittyWampus
Funny thing- Howard Dean was a "states rights" kind of guy when it came to Gay Marriage and running for POTUS. And many, many liberals support him and his evolution on this issue.

Huffington Post posted this SAME story put no one seems to acknowledge that Obama IS EVOLVING JUST THE WAY DEAN DID. This is clearly written in the NYTimes story posted below.

Seems convenient to leave that out when posting the HuffPost version.

Obama’s Views on Gay Marriage ‘Evolving’
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG
Published: June 18, 2011
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/19/us/politics/19marriag...


Now President Obama says his views on same-sex marriage are “evolving,” and as he runs for re-election he is seeking support from gay donors who want to know where he stands.

snip

The White House would not comment on whether Mr. Obama was ready to endorse same-sex marriage. But one Democratic strategist close to the White House, speaking only on the condition of anonymity, said some senior advisers “are looking at the tactics of how this might be done if the president chose to do it.”

And Representative Barney Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat who is gay, said in an interview that a top adviser to Mr. Obama, whom he would not name, asked him this year, “What would be the effect if he came out for same-sex marriage?”

snip

Many gay leaders say because the president has a strong record on issues they care about — prodding Congress to repeal the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy, which barred openly gay men and lesbians from serving in the military, and withdrawing legal support for the Defense of Marriage Act, which defines marriage as between a man and a woman — he is not under intense pressure to announce a change in his position before the 2012 election.

But with the political climate around gay rights changing drastically — a handful of recent polls show that Americans, by a slim majority, now support same-sex marriage — some strategists see little political cost to a shift in position......
snip

[markpkessinger]

70. Sounds a lot like ...

"Looking For Way To Support Same Sex Marriage" sounds a lot like wanting to have his cake and eat it, too. He wants the political benefit of appearing to support it, but does not want the political risk of actually taking a firm stand.

[TriMera]

71. Why are you spamming the thread with this? You've made your

point: Howard Dean BAD! President Obama GOOD! That's your take on it and I think we've got that, now.

[KittyWampus]

72. No, actually that isn't the point. The POINT is Obama is looking to support Same Sex Marriage.

And if you read the NYTimes article, that Huff Post ripped off, you'd know that.

And rebutting the bullshit of the OP is not "spamming".

[TriMera]

76. Then he should just come out and support it. After all,

over 50% of the population supports marriage equality and most people who don't, aren't going to vote for him anyway. What does he have to lose by standing up for what is right?

[EFerrari]

84. I hope those hostage negotiators free him soon!

[City Lights]

85. He's looking to support it?

Either he supports it or he doesn't. There's no looking. Talk about wishy-washy. Sheesh. I honestly don't understand why it's so difficult.

[mysuzuki2]

68. The federal government has ALWAYS left the definition of

marriage up to the states. Eligibility for federal benefits and tax filing status was always based on the laws of the state where the individual resides. That is until DOMA. As far as I know DOMA is the only federal law which attempts to define marriage. So, let's ;eave marriage up to the states and repeal DOMA.

[LiberalAndProud]

79. DOMA did set a precedent, didn't it?

And it calls the entire states' rights stance into question. At least Obama has dropped his defense of DOMA, which makes his current states' rights stance somewhat more palatable.

[Scottybeamer70]

73. He wouldn't want to lose a vote from

a possible funddie who would never vote for him in the first place.
It's always about the election....to hell with the people suffering discrimination.
I see how it's going with abortion and state's rights.......not a good sign at all.
What's the use of having a national law if the states are just going to undo it?
I must have missed that memo.

[WillyT]

74. Yeah... Because Civil Rights Should Always Be Left Up To The States...

http://negroartist.com/civil%20rights%20imagery/images/Black%20civil%20rights%20demonstrators%20attacked%20by%20police%20water%20hose_%20Birmingham,%20Alabama%20May%201963_jpg.jpg



:banghead:

[TriMera]

77. It seems to me that anyone who says that this is a

"states' rights" issue has never had to have their rights voted on by a majority that already enjoys said rights. Civil Rights should never be put in the position of being "granted" by the majority.

[mmonk]

78. States' rights?

I'm beginning to wonder if he ever read history concerning the issue of states' rights.

[Bluebear]

81. Well at least we can see how he "evolved" on the issue.

[TriMera]

82. He is a constitutional scholar. He knows exactly what he

is doing. He is giving the appearance (albeit pitiful) of being supportive of marriage equality and, at the same time, throwing the issue into an arena where it will languish until he is out of office and well clear of it. It's quite cowardly, actually.

[Bluebear]

80. States' rights -- from the nation's first black president.

:(

[EFerrari]

83. Gross.

[treestar]

86. So being black means one can never advocate anything is the province of a state?

Totally dumb. Marriage is something states regulate.

[Vanje]

87. ...so if, say, Alabama , enacted a ban on bi-racial marriage ,

You'd be cool with that?

[treestar]

88. Of course not.

The OP commented as if one who is black may never think anything is within a state's powers. And to counter your bad faith arguing tactics, I am not concluding, simply by mentioning that there is an issue, that the states do have the ultimate say over this. But it is a possible legal position on any issue. States still have powers and jurisdiction over many things. The OPs statement was ignorant and showed no desire to consider the President's position at all.

[Vanje]

90. Me?

Me? I think its a good reason why states SHOULD NOT determine who is worthy of marriage.

[MisterP]

91. many thought they were getting a Frederick Douglass, instead they got a Stephen nt