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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:15 AM
Original message
Why the GOP should nominate Barack Obama in 2012
Why the GOP should nominate Barack Obama in 2012

A modest proposal stemming from the president's apparent rejection of his own party's liberal tradition

With the possible exception of Jon Huntsman, the Republican presidential field is weak on candidates who could appeal to centrist swing voters, including moderate Republicans. But there is one 2012 prospect who has a proven track record of pursuing policies that owe a great deal to the moderate Republican tradition and who could potentially shake up the race for the GOP presidential nomination: President Barack Obama.

If Obama chose to run for reelection not as a Democrat but as a moderate Republican, he could bring about two healthy transformations in the American political system. The moderate wing of the Republican Party could be restored. And the Democratic presidential nomination might be opened up to politicians from the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party.

In the last generation, the old-fashioned moderate Republicans from New England and the Midwest symbolized by Nelson Rockefeller have been driven out of the GOP by the conservative followers of Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan. Streaming into the Democratic Party as voters, and buying it with ample Wall Street cash as donors, this upscale elite has changed the party from a populist liberal alliance of unionized workers and populists into a socially liberal, economically conservative version of the old country-club Republicanism of the pre-Reagan era. The transformation began under Jimmy Carter, accelerated under Bill Clinton and has nearly been completed under Barack Obama. This is not your grandfathers Democratic Party. It is your grandfathers Republican Party of 1955.


http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/06/21/...


---------------

Even Eisenhower couldn't do to Social Security what Obama has done -- and wouldn't have

wanted to do it!

This is how far we've come with the destruction of the Democratic Party by the Koch Bros

infiltration and influence over the party --

Meanwhile, if you expect to be living on this planet any longer -- it's way past time to

be paying a lot of attention to what's going on --

"Drill now -- think later!" --

Fukushima and Obama plans for new nuclear reactors in US --

Global Warming -- there was a 50 year delay in our feeling the effects of Global Warming --

though warm enough to melt the glaciers. This gave the oil industry time to lie to the public

spending tens of billions of dollars to do it. We are only now beginning to feel the effects

of burning fossil fuels up to about 1960. Imagine all that we did after that date!


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
1. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. It does seem that more and more make voting decisions -
based on personality not policy. Not just the younger generation.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I guess politics has become entertainment and politicians pop culture heroes...
Edited on Tue Jun-21-11 11:34 AM by polichick
While most Americans are liberal in their positions (when labels aren't used), popular personalities and team loyalty come even before policies that have dire consequences for future generations. Crazy!
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
58. dusting off the old "obama's just a celebrity!1!!" line, i see.
:rofl:
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
3. Unrec, this has reached a new low.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. The truth is the truth - almost all the policies the prez promotes were once...
Republican positions. He often points that out himself in making the case.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. It is directly calling the Democratic president a republican.
Which is not true, not even remotely true.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. It's true if you're taking about policy - which is the point. Take your blinders off.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. I don't wear blinders.
This article is a hit piece posing as opinion.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Of course. People with blinders see every uncomfortable truth as a "hit piece."
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. The subject is the article, not me.
It has no impact other than to use innuendo as fact.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. It is fact that today's Dems promote recycled Republican policies - no innuendo there.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. I don't see a fact in that statement.
What I see is a meme used to call attention to an agenda.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. You're too funny - even the prez promotes his policies as old Republican ideas...
That's how he tries to sell them.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Needling the GOP is expected.
An article calling the President a republican is not.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Good grief. He's not "needling the gop" - he's being truthful about policies.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. No.
Ask Romney about his joy that PBO linked up with his Mass. health care. It was done for a reason and it wasn't to make Obama a republican.

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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Obama linked his healthcare plan to old Republican policy LONG before Romney...
...came back into the picture - he tried to sell it to Republicans that way.

The important point is that Dems are pushing old Republican policies instead of long-held Democratic policies.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. That's your opinion and I disagree.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts...
Like it or not, many of today's Dem policies are old Republican policies - that's a fact, not my opinion.

That's how far right the Democratic party has moved, and how far crazy the other party has moved.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. War and peace.
It's all subjective.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. No, it is not "subjective".
It can be verified by empirical data.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will stand up for working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone




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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #44
62. k/r
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piratefish08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #41
98. +1
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #33
79. Obama has said that he made over 200 Concessions to
Republicans in the health bill, and it's still not enough for them.

Obama also rejected Romney's mandated insurance policies in the campaign, stating clearly that it would 'be unfair to force people who cannot afford it, to pay for private insurance'. Then, he changed his mind. And what could Republicans do? They used to be proud of Romneycare, until Obama stole it from them.

If Romney were smart he would have said that. 'Dems have no ideas of their own so they stole mine'. But by then, the Repubs had decided they did not like Romneycare's mandated insurance. They were wearing blinders when it was a Repub idea and the best way to remove Republican blinders, to steal their rotten ideas. Maybe that's what Obama is doing btw.
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
66. I wish he would decide to admire Nixon, his ideas were
much more liberal than most of "our" party's ideas are today.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
54. kr
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
36. kr
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. But its not bashing

:sarcasm:
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
6. New GOP bumper sticker I saw recently..Dig, Drill, Cut, Kill... GOP
:shrug: Pretty much says it all.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
8. K&R
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
11. shamefully bitter and weak article.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. You're offering a "shamefully bitter and weak" response instead of addressing the critical point...
Edited on Tue Jun-21-11 11:53 AM by polichick
...which is that today's Dem party is actually yesterday's Republican party - and that's a problem.
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
12. I tend to agree with the point
The manner in which you make the point unfortunately will distract from the larger and more valid issue. The party has been moving right because the GOP has been moving right, opening up space for moderate republicans to become democrats.

There is probably some "realignment" coming, or possibly a major shift in the center of the GOP. Conversely, the democrats could basically "trade places" with the GOP. It's happened before. The democrats weren't always the party that they are. It was the GOP that elected Lincoln and ended slavery. The GOP "handed the south to the democrats for a generation", in a way that would be reversed when LBJ claimed to return the favor.

I often consider politics not to be a truly "right/left" on some sort of line, but a circle where we chase each other around. Run long enough in one direction and you find yourself on the "opposite side" of the circle. Obama didn't start this by any stretch, but he may be a strong catalyst in completing the conversion.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
31. I didn't write the article - --
Edited on Tue Jun-21-11 12:15 PM by defendandprotect
The party has been moving to the right because 20 years ago the Koch Bros

funded the DLC -- infiltrated and influenced the party and its candidates --

all the while harbored within the party --

Explain to me how we can have Koch Bros influence and infiltration and not move to the right?

Basically, Bill Clinton who brought in corporations because he understood unions didn't have

enough money to finance the kind of campaign he wanted to run was our first Koch Bros/DLC

president --

Gore would have been the second!

It is Democrats who are willing to sell themselves who have moved the party to the right --

and, btw, completely out of agreement with the nation which is liberal --

80% of the public want an end to the wars --

76% want MEDICARE FOR ALL --

including Catholics by 83% who want government health care including abortion coverage --


If you read my additional comments -- and if you understand them -- we do not have time to

wait for 100 year shift in the party!

The planet is burning up -- and it won't help to have two aging and poorly maintained nuclear

reactors in every state as Global Warming effects increase in number and severity.

Politics is a movement -- it goes in one direction or the other -- like trains/buses --

ther eare none sitting in the middle of the road or driving down the yellow line!

They go left or right --

"You can't be neutral on a moving train" --






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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #31
60. You might be surprised
The shift could happen within the next decade. There is real room in the GOP for someone to campaign from the LEFT of Obama. Sorta a "progressive conservative". Imagine Ron Paul without the insanity.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #60
65. And if you were in Japan now -- or in Missouri -- or had you been in NO during
Edited on Tue Jun-21-11 07:59 PM by defendandprotect
Katrina would you be saying even "10 years" -- ???

How about Fraking -- has it reached you yet?

How many tornados would have to come through your town to make you think 10 years

might be too long?

How many more BP's are you willing to see happen?

We've already had 10 years of wars bankrupting our Treasury --

Repugs were hoping for 100 years -- can we take 10 more years?


Do you want your taxpaper dollars to go to a new generation of nuclear reactors

here in America -- which is being pushed by Obama who has been underwritten by

the nuke industry?

There are two nuclear reactors in every state -- in fact, if you believe 9/11, the

alleged hijackers flew over the one in NY -- most of them are old and poorly

maintained and leaking. The waste is mind boggling -- and all of this because

the MIC decided they needed a "peaceful" use for atomic power --

and they gave us nuclear reactors to boil water for steam!


Basically, I think you have to understand that we are talking about fascism --

and that the right wing is not entirely the GOP -- and that those who have created

all of these rw and fake organizations cannot afford to have any real liberals come

back into office. It would be entirely too dangerous for them.

We can continue to hope for it -- but I don't think it's likely, except perhaps by

accident -- sometimes things just come out of left -- field -- and too suddenly for

them to cope with --

I'll keep my fingers-crossed on that!


:)



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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-22-11 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #65
80. The system is designed for that pace of change
ANY change that would attempt to reverse the basic trends you describe would take at least 10 years or more BY DESIGN. The senate takes easily that long to alter significantly. The courts? Easily that long if not longer. The House can only be altered every 2 years.

Politically speaking, 10 years is about as fast as it can happen.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #80
82. Thom Hartmann said something interesting today ....
Edited on Thu Jun-23-11 12:01 AM by defendandprotect
That Thomas Jefferson had said that our system/government was designed

to NOT rise again --

In other words, we got a democracy for a short time while the elites worked

to destroy it -- and to ensure that it would never rise again after they killed it!


If you're counting on our corporate president and corporate Congress to turn this

around in 10 years or even more, think you're waiting in vain.


Should the public awaken to Global Warming -- and you might be interested in my thread

on that in GD -- it would happen overnight!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
16. Your campaign to depress Dem voters for 2012 is getting tiresome
Edited on Tue Jun-21-11 11:52 AM by emulatorloo
at least to me. I find your pushing of the unsubstantiated claim that 'Obama is a puppet of the Koch Brothers' especially tiring. Trust me, the Koch's/Rove Crossroads types are going to be spending BILLIONS of dollars in 2012 to ensure

- Dems don't take back the House
- Dems loose the Senate
- A reactionary Republican takes the White House.

You can 'assert' over and over again the Democrats and Republicans 'serve the same Master" or whatever the favored phrase is this week.

However any sane person just need look at the states that are under Republican control since the 2010 election.

In my state of Iowa, we have a teabag house and a Republican governor. Fortunately Dems still control the Senate and they have STOPPED EVERY DAMN EVIL PIECE OF LEGISLATION put out by that House.



EDIT grammar.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. I'm glad Iowa still has some principled Dems in office - in DC precious few...
Edited on Tue Jun-21-11 11:58 AM by polichick
...Dems even try to stop the evil pieces of legislation, while many other Dems are right on board with the evil. That's the point.
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. +1000
nt
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. Few would disagree with you that OIbama is the "lesser evil" -- that's the point ...


Address the issues -- STOP attacking the messengers --
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
34. Did you notice 2010? It's Obama and Dems who are depressing the voters -- !!
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #34
47. Harry agrees.

"I've seen it happen time after time. When the Democratic candidate allows himself to be put on the defensive and starts apologizing for the New Deal and the Fair Deal, and says he really doesn't believe in them, he is sure to lose. The people don't want a phony Democrat. If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat, and I don't want any phony Democratic candidates in this campaign."

---President Harry Truman

QED:2010



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their EXCUSES.








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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
55. Tell the left Obama is a Republican, tell the right he is a socialist ...
The goal of the first is to reduce Dem turnout by about 3% ... the goal of the second is to increases right wing turn out by about 3%.

Obama's margin of victory in 2008 ... 6%.

That's what this is all about.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #55
59. Interesting analysis n/tv
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #55
61. give this man a cigar, we have a winner folks!
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #55
83. Which is more believable? Look at the corporatist agenda and policies of Obama...
and a DLC harbored within the Dem party over the last

20 years FUNDED BY KOCH BROS!

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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #16
57. it's the Party Leadership's Fault
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FredStembottom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-22-11 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #16
81. 1) the Republicans are, indeed, worse.
2) Today's Democratic party is yesterday's Republican Party

Both are true.

And it's no one's fault here at DU.

Talk to the Democratic Party about dis-spirited Democrats.

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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #16
92. You know what?
The OP posted an article. It's what we do on DU. Agree with the points, don't agree with the points, argue your own points. But PLEASE stop pretending like you "know" that the OP has some sinister ulterior motive. If you have proof to the contrary, please present it, otherwise, counter the points in the article intelligently and quit embarrassing yourself.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
17. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Hope they're not using our tax money to pay them. :)
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
24. Kick
:P
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creon Donating Member (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
28. No
The GOP has no use for Obama.

It is funny though. Good gallows humor
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
30. Sorry. Just noticed that you posted the same article after I posted.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Imagine yours is also getting un-d .... ???
Edited on Tue Jun-21-11 12:16 PM by defendandprotect
and notice the attacks on the messenger -- not the issue, of course!!


:)
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. I assure you....
Edited on Tue Jun-21-11 12:41 PM by Bobbie Jo
"Message" and "Messengers" noted.
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Fuddnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
39. I 've been contemplating a LTTE for a few days expressing that feeling.
Especially with the Republican Party freak show primary.
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Patriot 76 Donating Member (95 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
40. What are you going do about it? Nothing, same as your type has always done.
All talk.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #40
46. Well, thanks for the many suggestions you offered -- !!
Meanwhile, you have no idea what I have done personally or politically --

Nor have you commented on the subject --

just another cheesy way to try to attack the messenger as far as I can see --

We do need rule changes here at DU -- because I think this is going to go beyond

simply picking up the party and trying to leave the Koch Bros funded DLC/Dem Party

behind --

Obviously we are going to need candidates from outside of the party --

those who haven't been pre-bought and pre-bribed by Koch --

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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #40
93. Does the word
"irony" mean anything to you? :eyes:
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
43. So just out of curiosity, who was the last "real" democratic
president?
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. On economic issues i.e. Medicare, the Great Society, War on Poverty it was LBJ
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. Ouch ....
True, LBJ was socially liberal in his policies --

working to move JFK's civil rights legislation, programs for the poor and

Medicare --

but, imo, he was a co-conspirator in the assassination -- without any doubt --

and I think much of the country was immediately quesitoning that --

therefore, I think these programs allayed his fears that the country would turn

on him.

According to Pierre Salinger, both he and Bill Moyers recognized that LBJ was

"clinically psychotic" in the White House --

Many reports that he was haunted by what he had done -- and that he was more and

more trying to tell the tale -- evidently they hired a psychiatrist for a million

who would listen to him -- let him confess -- and never reveal the truth.

LBJ was long connected to criminal interests -- organized crime -- especially via

the oil industry and Clint Murchinson.

They say LBJ even took envelopes with cash pay-offs while he was in the Oval Office!

But in the end, either he had enough conscience left to drive him insane --

or like Nixon at the end, his actions and fears made him insane.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. I'd guess JFK -- A coup that not only took our president but our people's government ...
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. ... well, you have to agree that even Nixon was to left of Obama ...
but see my comments on LBJ just below this post --

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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #50
71. Nixon, like Obama, governed in a manner reflective of the times
And in the 1970's the country was MUCH farther to the left in terms of economics and reigning in big corporations than it is today. Nixon governed as a Republican in the era of FDR and Obama is governing as a Democrat in the era of Reagan. Not surprisingly, their positions are similar on a lot of things.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. Disagree -- and certainly anyone who understands "Watergate" understands it was
Edited on Tue Jun-21-11 09:47 PM by defendandprotect
a rightwing conspiracy -- especially to STOP the 1972 elections if they found

it necessary -- See: Huston Plan -- which was based on "Operation Northwoods" --


Nixon did everything he could to illegally and secretly move politics to the right --

from wiretapping even Kissinger, to trying to bribe the head of the FBI - Pat Gray --

with an offer of a spot on the Supreme Court!

Interestingly, Nixon's AG John Mitchell spit out to the public at one point that ...

"This country is going to go so far to the right that it will make your head spin!"

How would Mitchell know that unless he knew there was a conspiracy in place?

Nonetheless, here we are today, further to the right than we would have ever dreamed.


Nixon was also connected to the rightwing political violence which took our president

and our people's government -- see: Madelaine Brown on that re the party the evening

before the assassination and the private meeting -- and the list of those who attended

that meeting. In fact, the journalist Helen Thomas was also a guest at the party that

evening -- and noted those who were arriving for the meeting.


The morning after the assassination, Helen Thomas filed an Affadavit reporting the meeting,

which also included a list of the names of those who she had seen arriving to attend the meeting.


Nixon was there -- as was a long list of others, including LBJ - Hoover and so on.

Unfortunately I don't have the list at hand, but you will find that Madelaine Brown

names all of them. See: YouTube

Sadly, like many others here, you evidently have a very limited knowledge of Watergate and Nixon.


As for Obama, he is heading up a party where Koch Bros. funded DLC has been harbored for

20 years. Brought in by Clinton who knew that the unions didn't have the kind of money he

wanted to run his presidential campaign. Certainly Koch Bros/DLC was infiltrating the party

and influencing the party over these two decades -- including its candidates and elected

officials of the party. And, therefore, Clinton was a Koch Bros/DLC candidate and president

and Gore would have been the second Koch Bros/DLC candidate and president.


Obama and the Democratic Party couldn't be more out of accord with the public --

80% want an end to the wars -- 76% and much more want MEDICARE FOR ALL --

This is a liberal nation and there is only a cry AGAINST the corporate agenda which

Obama is pushing -- backed by tons of campaign funds from those corporations he is

supporting -- from nukes to oil industry, from Big Pharma to private H/C industry.


If you want any more info on any of this, let me know --

:)







Nixon, like Obama, governed in a manner reflective of the times
Posted by Hippo_Tron
And in the 1970's the country was MUCH farther to the left in terms of economics and reigning in big corporations than it is today. Nixon governed as a Republican in the era of FDR and Obama is governing as a Democrat in the era of Reagan. Not surprisingly, their positions are similar on a lot of things.




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Dept of Beer Donating Member (957 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #43
52. That's an excellent question.

It is all in the branding as what is called or defined as "real."

Real can be played with on supermarket packaging just as easily in the branding of a candidate of any party.


Most probably could use the "Real" moniker as in real assholes.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
51. what has the President done to social security? not a damned thing.
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Dept of Beer Donating Member (957 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. We can only hope that he does nothing or vetos any bill
that will hurt the average American.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #51
68. Yes, Obama HAS planted the seeds for the destruction of Social Security.
He championed the Payroll Tax Holiday, which as you know FUNDS Social Security.
He THEN "fixed it" so that any shortfall would be covered by money from the General Fund,
thereby directly connecting funding for Social security to The General Fund,
lending credibility and veracity to the Republican claims that Social Security payments are contributing to the deficit,
because NOW they are!

Doesn't it make you wonder WHY they went to such lengths and convolution?
Wouldn't it have been so much easier to give everybody a Tax rebate,
or simply send everybody a check from the General Fund.

To make it seem palatable, the defunding of Social Security was labeled "temporary",
but do you really believe that Obama & The "Centrist" Democrats are going to raise taxes
in an election year
?

This move also trivializes the Payroll taxes as something that we can call a "Holiday" on,
making it so much easier NEXT time.

Nothing good will come from this.


Who will STAND and FIGHT for THIS American Majority?
You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their EXCUSES.



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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. At the time I thought it was a stupid idea and still do
You are very correct in your post..........
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
56. Of course, the author offers up NO Democratic alternative.
More reactionary venting, no practical, reality-based thinking.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
63. And he hasn't exposed the moon landing hoax, either.
SHAME!!!
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zappaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
64. congrats!!!
Although I am one of the thousands you have on ignore for having the temerity to ask you to back up your always wacky claims, I have to congratulate you on the single dumbest OP I have ever seen on DU.
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #64
76. +1
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #64
101. +1
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
67. I wouldn't go that far
Edited on Tue Jun-21-11 08:53 PM by mvd
If he didn't have so much to deal with, I'd give President Obama a C. But because he does, I still have him at B-. If he'd tried harder for things like the public option instead of reducing their significance, I would understand their defeat better. He's done some good things on social issues, diplomacy, and keeping the economy afloat. But I would take a harder line because if you don't, the Repukes just bring things further right.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
69. Embarassingly accurate,
Of course the Republican Party will go Bachmann instead.
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
72. K&R....great idea!....n/t
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
74. I recced this because it's true. After 40+ years of being a good Democrat I no longer
recognize the party I once loved so much. This President has been one disappointment after the next. Not because he didn't do everything I hoped he would, but because he has chosen NOT to fight for the working class Americans who need his help so badly. For those of you who are starstruck by Barack Obama I'd suggest that you go enlist so you can fight in one of his wars. Or, if you're too old to fight, just have one or two of your own children sacrifice themselves on the Altar of Spreading Democractic Ideals.

Kudos to defendandprotect, bvar22, and a number of others who refute the propaganda with facts.



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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. Can't argue with that n/t
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #74
84. While you do what?
Abandon the Dems and sacrifice the rest of us on the Altar of Spreading Republican Ideals?

/facepalm

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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
77. What a steaming hunk of chode this OP is. nt
Edited on Tue Jun-21-11 10:55 PM by Maru Kitteh
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MikeMc Donating Member (636 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-11 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
78. I + one-ed this for a net-0.
Obama is Rezzi and Suharto. Still, he beats each and every repug politico out there. That's the rub.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 05:23 AM
Response to Original message
85. It started with Jimmy Carter? He started transforming the party into the Republican party?
I can't believe the dogshit dragged into this forum and propped up as gospel.

This fucking place needs an enema.


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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #85
86. It wasn't Carter's fault
It's easy to see now, thirty years later, that Carter's loss to Reagan put this country on a rightward slide that hasn't come close to stopping yet.

The Iran Hostage Crisis was the leaden straw that broke the Democratic party's back and the media behavior is an eerie precursor of 24-7 cable news that has so screwed up our politics here, remember America Held Hostage, day 296? Ted Koppel became a household word because of that one show.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #86
87. Damn right it wasn't Carter's fault.
The decision to primary a sitting Democratic President was one of the biggest blunders ever recorded in American History. And yes, it's easy to see how that started a rightward slide.

Which makes the continuous yammering on and on about primarying Obama truly insane. Nothing like enabling the right wing to prove just how far left one can be. :eyes:

Like I said, this place needs a fucking enema.



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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #87
88. Funny, I never mentioned the primary..
It was the hostage crisis and everyone knows it.

Reagan conspired with the Iranians, the hostages were released minutes after Reagan was sworn in.

The primary wasn't even on the radar screen for most Americans at that time, it was Day 312 of America Held Hostage, *that* was on the TV every single night..

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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #88
89. Of course you didn't.
Edited on Thu Jun-23-11 06:42 AM by JTFrog
Probably why you aren't my go to expert on American History.

Carter wrote that the most intense and mounting opposition to his policies came from the liberal wing of the Democratic Party. He blamed this on Ted Kennedys ambition to replace him as president. (Our Endangered Values: Americas Moral Crisis)

For example: Kennedy, was originally on board with Carter's health plan. He pulled support from that legislation late in the game. Carter states that this was in anticipation of Kennedy's own candidacy and effectively delayed comprehensive health coverage for decades. (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/09/16/60minutes/mai... )

This is a clear case where the constant attacks from the "left" helped enable the right wing to defeat Carter. To deny this is to deny that we need air to breathe.

And thirty years later Carter is widely considered our greatest living President. It's insane. Just fucking insane.

*edit for typing too fast and missing words





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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #89
95. Why are you trying to deflect the blame from Reagan and the Republican's perfidy?
You're taking a very "inside baseball" tack on this subject, as I already said, the Iran Hostage Crisis and the economy were the two big things on the average American's mind, not Ted Kennedy.

They don't call them "Reagan Democrats" because they voted for Ted Kennedy in the primary.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #95
96. I'm not deflecting blame from Reagan nor the Republicans.
It's a fact that because of the decision to primary a Democratic incumbent (a no win scenario every time) we ended up with Democrats all over the spectrum, including "Reagan Democrats". Carter claims Kennedy and the liberal wing of the party intentionally sabotaged him and his legislation. Do you think he made that shit up?

It was because the party was so fractured that we lost and ended up sliding down that slippery right wing slope.

And folks are trying for a repeat of this failed process.

INSANE.

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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #96
97. So your claim is that Regan Democrats thought Carter was too conservative?
So they voted for Reagan instead?

:crazy:
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #97
99. So you're theory is primarying an incumbent Democratic President had no effect?
Edited on Thu Jun-23-11 09:17 AM by JTFrog
:crazy:


:eyes:

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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #99
100. Sure it had an effect..
A tiny one next to America Held Hostage, day 337 and the poor economy..

You are straining at a gnat while swallowing an entire herd of camels.
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 06:41 AM
Response to Original message
90. Impeccable logic!
I can't recommend this enough. Honest to goddess this should be prescribed reading.

"This is not your grandfathers Democratic Party. It is your grandfathers Republican Party of 1955." Masterful!

Thanks for posting! :hi:
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
91. Eisenhower has become one of my favorite presidents -
he was behind the largest INCREASE of folks into the social security program: http://www.eisenhowermemorial.org/social-security.htm

Also he proposed a re-insurance that would have effectively worked as a universal health care: http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=194115

If only Mr. Obama were more like Ike!
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #91
94. Some more from the article about Eisenhower vs. Obama, here:


"In spite of an economic boom, Eisenhower worried about the effects of military spending on the civilian economy. In spite of a near-Depression, Obama exempted defense spending from the government spending freeze.

Eisenhower wound down the Korean War that he inherited from Harry Truman. Obama expanded the Afghan War that he inherited from George W. Bush. In Afghanistan Obama pursued the "surge," a strategy backed by neoconservatives that will have led to the unnecessary death and crippling of even more Americans before the inevitable U.S. withdrawal.

Eisenhower refused to take part in the British, French and Israeli attack on Egypt, during the Suez crisis in 1956. Obama, in contrast, agreed that the U.S. would provide most of the muscle in the Franco-British-American attack on Gadhafis regime in Libya.

In committing the U.S. to a third ongoing war in a Muslim country, President Obama lied to the public and trashed the Constitution. The administration lied when it said that the purpose of the Libyan war was only to protect civilians in a few areas of Libya from being massacred by Gadhafis forces. Pilots from the U.S. and other NATO countries soon began trying to assassinate the Libyan dictator from the air."
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