Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

I spent much of today defending Congressman Weiner.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:37 PM
Original message
I spent much of today defending Congressman Weiner.
Edited on Mon Jun-06-11 06:41 PM by MineralMan
I took him at his word that he was not involved with any of this nonsense. If you don't believe me, the Search feature on DU will corroborate what I'm saying.

Now that he has 'fessed up to his sleazy behavior, I'm embarrassed about my defense of him. I like what he does in Congress. I like his positions. I like what he stands for. But, he lied to me and I stood up for him here on DU, where a number of people were questioning his veracity. They were correct, and I was incorrect in my assessment of the man.

I still like his positions. I no longer believe what he says. Some will say he's not my Congressman, and they're right. I don't vote for him. My representative is Betty McCollum. I know her personally. I've helped get her elected twice now. She's also a strong progressive and I support her positions. She is for single payer health care, marriage equality, and many other issues I believe in. She is also not a liar. There are no rumors about her sex life. She says what she thinks and behaves like an upstanding individual in every aspect of her life, as far as I know.

I no longer trust Congressman Weiner. I no longer believe what he says. He lied to me, and I stood behind him, based on his statements in this scandal. I don't care if he was dicking around on the Internet with women. That's a matter of no consequence to me. I care that he lied about it and caused me to defend him in his lies. That, in my opinion, is unethical behavior, and that I will not tolerate or support.

In his lies, he has given credibility to an ugly pseudo-journalist and added to Breitbart's influence. That is a very negative consequence of this incident. A very negative consequence. His policies have made him the darling of some, and I like them as well. But...he has tarnished his office, tarnished his credibility, and tarnished the cause of progressivism. He no longer has my support and I would welcome his resignation, since he no longer has the clout he once had. There is, surely, another progressive candidate who can take his place. I hope that his replacement will be an honorable person - one who will either not engage in embarrassing personal behavior or who will, at least, take responsibility for it.

For me, Weiner is a dick. He can not longer count on me to defend him. That may not matter to him, but it matters to me, and I suspect it matters to many others. He is a disappointment.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks that explains it.
Edited on Mon Jun-06-11 06:45 PM by RandomThoughts
The lieing is an issue, he did not act very adult by letting people defend him like that.

Although in truth, I don't think he lied, although he had something to hide that Intelligence entrapped him into, or went after him for doing.



I missed on that one also, trying to figure out how he did not know if that was a picture of him. I think the first one was not a picture, so that he would say that, then they would drop the second part after he made the denial.

That was my first thought on the tactic being used. So I think the first picture was not him, and he is lying about that to get that out of the way. A sort of backing down, and just trying to get past it.


Actually it makes sense the first picture was not of him, it was bait to get him to deny it, so they could drop the second set on him.

That explains it, I was not wrong on the topic. That is refreshing.


So it is psyops, it was planned, it was a faction of shadow government that went after him. Not that hard to figure out.


Billy Idol - Eyes Without A Face
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OFpfTd0EIs
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. beer & travel money headed your way
:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
95. OMG
dude, the guy admitted it and he said she was not the only one. the reason he wouldn't say whether or not the picture was him was because he knew it was him. sometimes the most logical explanation is the true one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #95
99. You sure about that.
I have very logically explained how many people are part of the same idea.

And some seem to not be able to comprehend it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. good luck finding a perfect politician
I think you and many others here are over-reacting to something that is being blown-up by the media.

I judge the man based on how he governs! If he sticks up for the little guy, he's with me... he committed no crime. WHat was really sleezy is how this was used to politically harm a liberal democrat, yet war criminals and sociopathic bankers walk free.

I swear, image is EVERYTHING for too many.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. He has. Betty McCullum is perfect in every aspect of her life. LOL!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. No. And it's McCollum. Look her up.
As I said, I know her personally, and have no reason to believe she is anything other than what she appears to be. You mock her, but cannot even spell her name. Feh!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
50. It isn't about being perfect....
It is about owning up to it rather than lying to everyone in the U.S. If he had come out right away and admitted his mistake it would be easy for us to just brush it off and still support him....but when he makes an effort specifically to cover up something, it makes me wonder what else he might try to cover up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #50
60. Yes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
96. bernie sanders. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mlevans Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
131. You sure nailed that. I agree 100%.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RegieRocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
135. Good luck finding a perfect person
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #135
148. No one's perfect, but I know a lot of people whose flaws don't include....
piss poor judgment like this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidthegnome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-11 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
170. You have a good point
At the same time - image IS important. Why? Well, because we live in a society that pays a great deal of attention to media. What Weiner does in his private time is really none of our damn business and I'd just as soon not know. I'd rather not know with any politician at all.

Yet, we have a right to expect a certain amount of honesty from those who represent us. If they mislead us, lie to us, attempt to manipulate us for their own benefit, then it is (in my opinion) our obligation to respond to this dishonesty. If we don't in this case, why will we bother in others? If we do not hold one responsible for a small lie or even a lie that he felt protected his image, then we will find it far more difficult to hold others responsible for theirs. Yes, some cost lives and others cost little or nothing. The point is that the lie itself wasn't necessary and he has humiliated not only himself, but those from within his own party who supported him and believed in his integrity.

I respected Clinton's political and economic savvy. I liked him as a man and President overall. That said - I've still always felt that lying under oath was a very serious mistake and even crime from a man who was our President. I don't care what his reasoning was, when someone lies under oath there are consequences. Whether they be President, billionaire, poor or middle class or what have you, they are responsible for their actions and words.

Most of us don't expect our politicians to be honest and so we are rarely or never surprised when they do lie. Perhaps if we held them to different standards of behavior we would be able to hold them responsible for the lies that lead us into destruction and disaster. Perhaps not. Perhaps we are too far gone for that already. I still say that truth should be both expected and demanded from those in positions where responsibility is demanded.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. I tend to avoid these dramas
So he wasn't innocent, he really was foolish? Silly democrats..

Sorry ya got let down bro..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. Whatever you say, Kitty.
Whatever you say. As far as I know, what I said is true. I do not shadow the woman, but I know her. Do you know something about Betty McCollum that I do not? Do you know anything about her at all? Please fill me in, won't you?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. Lying matters. It's not sanctimonious priggery (did you have to look that up?)
Edited on Mon Jun-06-11 06:52 PM by Bake
to expect LEADERS to adhere to basic standards of HONESTY.

If you get upset when Repubs lie, but not when Dems lie, that's not sanctimonious priggery. It's hypocrisy.

Bake
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. No, I know sanctimonious priggery when I see it. I expect elected representatives to forge
Edited on Mon Jun-06-11 06:54 PM by KittyWampus
decent legislation, like Single Payer Options in health care, not be saints.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Oh, bother...
You have expressed your opinion. So have I. Is yours of more value? I think not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. A vote is inherently an expression of TRUST.
It's saying "I trust you, sir or madam, to go represent my interests." When that person lies to you, that's a breach of trust.

It's pretty simple. Weiner didn't have to lie. He could have owned up to what he did right off the bat, and few people here would have cared. "Yeah, I did it. So what."

But he didn't. He lied about it, and embarassed a lot of people, here and elsewhere, who defended him.

I guess that doesn't bother you.

Bake
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #24
80. To be fair...there was a lot of "priggery" when some of us chose to
wait and see on this one. To act as if there wasn't is to be disingenuous.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #80
152. well played
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
5. The Breitbart part pisses me off
He's given that scumbag legitimacy
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shireen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
27. +1 nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
64. +1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ctsnowman Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
77. +1000
NT
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
149. That's a sucker punch in the gut!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-11 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #5
169. that's what rips my ass the most of all this.
I was so 110% sure Breitbart was lieing, because that's what he does, right?

and now Wiener is the liar and Breitbart is the 'journalist'. OMG I'M GONNA FUCKING PUKE
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tcaudilllg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-11 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
173. Only because you believe it. Breitbart should mind his own business.
But I remember when Weiner argued, after Brown's win in MA last year, that maybe we should shelve health care reform... and when I heard of him again after this, that's what I remembered. I was disgusted by his weakness then, and it is for that reason that I will be glad to see his influence gone in the party.

Anyway, he's got a kid now. Better get to work Weiner boy. Playtime is over.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
7.  The person for whom I feel the most is his wife.
Why do guys do this crap?

He can be replaced as a representative of his district.

But he can never replace what his wife once felt for him, and what he has done to her.

I think he is a weasel.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Women in power cheat just as much as men.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
97. I feel for all spouses hurt by their partners.
Edited on Mon Jun-06-11 11:56 PM by tabatha
I have seen many men destroyed by women, and vice versa.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
179. Then it seems they're smarter about it..
When I see my first female office holder tearfully confessing her "indiscretions",

I'll buy it -- Until then, not so much.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Broderick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #7
118. Seems humiliating
To know he was carrying on like this with multiple women right after they got married.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HappyMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #7
119. Yes.
I do like that she didn't stand beside him while he apologized.

To be fair, there are plenty of women cheaters too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buddyblazon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #7
121. Why do guys do this?
Randi Rhodes said it last night on her show:

Because by nature, men are wired to spread their seed (as the male of most species are). She said she actually celebrates that type of male behavior. (kinda weird...I know).

Whether you agree with that or not doesn't much matter...as that is simply Randi's opinion. Though I think it's closer to the truth than most women want to hear.

I guess some of us men just have more self control than others. And I think if you plan on being in a public position...you better be one of those guys with self control.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
8. You accused others into a 'right wing' thing -
Inferring something different than defending Weiner.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. The source was a right wing hack.
The "right wing" inference has been made about others, on many issues, as you know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
49. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
dorkulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
163. Yeah, and it's almost always fucking asinine.
Maybe some folks could learn something here for once.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Melinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
9. I feel as you do in almost every respect , however I will not apologize for believing...
in the presumption of innocence nor for defending it. That's how it works in my America, and somehow I believe it does yours as well, MineralMan.

Good on you for the OP. :applause:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
44. +1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
10. There was nothing wrong with giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Especially considering the source involved.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sonoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. You have a lot of company, MineralMan.
GF is a major Marketeering type (clients include Arbitron, CBS, unnamed financial institutions, etc) and she almost fell out of her chair when I broke the 'news' to her about Weiner. To us, the most damning part is how he left his supporters (such as you) completely hung out on the line.

Personally, I don't give a damn what happens to him.

Sonoman
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
15. Did you defend Obama's promise to veto HCR without a public option?
Edited on Mon Jun-06-11 06:52 PM by MannyGoldstein
Or any of these:

http://vodpod.com/watch/3845839-jon-stewart-rips-pres-o...

I'm not saying that any of us should give Weiner a pass. But let's be consistent here. And while I'm not in favor of *any* lying, at least Weiner's lies won't kill anyone.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. This OP is about Anthony Weiner, not President Obama.
I will not participate in your attempt to sidetrack the subject of the thread. Sorry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. OK, so will you answer that question if I ask on another thread?
I'm guessing that's a question that you won't answer. But perhaps I'll be surprised.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. Sure, Manny. If I see your question in a thread where it
Edited on Mon Jun-06-11 07:08 PM by MineralMan
is relevant to the subject, I'll be happy to answer it. Odds are I won't see it, since this is a very large discussion forum. However, if I'm in a thread discussing President Obama's position on HCR, please feel free to ask again. I have no problem with the question. It's just irrelevant to this thread.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #15
102. +1
Manny for the win, as usual!

PB
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Snoutport Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
17. He and Bernie Sanders were my favorite politicians
And it is sad because he seemed a real straight shooter. So, it feels bad to not be able to feel that way about him.

But, I understand what it feels like to be betrayed by a politician. I was a supporter of our mayor who did a couple kinda sleazy things that left a bad taste in my mouth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dokkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #17
93. Big difference between him and Sander
Weiner voted for the patriot act while Bernie tried to filibuster it. Why Weiner is considered to be at the levels of Sanders is beyond me
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #93
153. because he talks like a badass on the TV..
and that's ALL he does. he's no progressive.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tcaudilllg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-11 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #93
174. Weiner never has been that strong of a politician.
One of those "safe Democrats" who hold onto their seat, but have little to show for it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shireen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
21. you should not feel embarrassed
you trusted him. we all did. he betrayed our trust. period.

i could not care less about his sex life. it's the lying that hurts.


:hug:


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Yes. Once a person has lied to me, it is very, very difficult
for that person to regain my trust. Weiner is replaceable. Perhaps the person who replaces him will be a truthful person. I hope so.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PerpetuallyDazed Donating Member (806 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #25
111. I think that's naive...
Every politician lies, even the "great" ones. His lying about his "sexting" was obviously that line in the sand for you. I think America still needs him. Perhaps this incident might even become a teachable moment about sex in the internet age. ("Is it really cheating if you're carrying on an affair online? What about porn?")
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #21
114. Yes he should and there's a lot of people around here who should feel embarrassed.
The defense of this man around here was vitriolic to put it mildly. It was blind, stupid and sycophantic on the same level as freerepublic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #114
154. stupid and sycophantic on the same level as freerepublic..
that's how this place has been since 1/09.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lucian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
23. Have you ever lied to anyone before?
Edited on Mon Jun-06-11 06:58 PM by Lucian
So a man lied and now he's a disappointment?

If that's the case, then every damn human being should be a disappointment.

-1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #23
33. Oh dear. This thread is not about me, you know.
I don't ask the population to believe what I say. As for lying, of course I have done so, to my regret. I do not remember the last time I lied about something important. I've found that it's unproductive and generally gets me in trouble, so I don't do it. Now, if my wife asks me if a pair of jeans makes her butt look big, I will lie. But, she rarely asks such questions. If a person I'm working with on a project asks how my progress is going, I will not lie, because that interferes with the trust we've developed. If I'm behind, I say so.

If someone asks about the brakes on a car I'm selling, I will tell the person what I know about them. In fact, I will have outlined all the flaws with the car at the very beginning of our conversation. Why? Because I've found that rarely interferes with a sale.

So, no, I don't lie about anything important, and there's no point in lying about unimportant things. Have I lied in my life? Yes, I have. It never works out well, so I gave it up as a bad idea.

I don't even lie about my real identity on DU. See my profile.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lucian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #33
91. Except that you made it about you.
"Weiner lied so I'm upset. Whaaaaaaa."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #91
155. what, are you in fucking junior high?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lucian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-11 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #155
168. Truth hurts.
Besides, I wasn't talking to you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #33
133. I suspect that is
Fat Freddy's cat.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shireen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #23
38. you're missing the point ...
MineralMan came to the defense of a liberal who appeared to be under attack by a right wing jerk. He was being loyal to someone he liked, trusted, and respected. His loyalty and trust was betrayed. He has every right to be livid.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #23
46. I think the point is...
that when a person lies and others stand behind him and defend him, even to the point sometimes of saying (or thinking) some pretty unkind things to others (not that I saw MM do this, but some did), then that's a whole 'nother story.


Weiner lied. Lots of people here defended him. Now they feel betrayed and embarrassed.

Everyone lies every once in a while. It's the defending of the liars that pisses people off.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lucian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #46
90. As far as I'm concerned...
his lies did no harm, except to his wife.

He didn't lie about reasons for an unjust war, for instance. That's infinitely worse.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #90
117. Today a dirty photo...
tomorrow an unjust war.


That's the theme thrown around here against other politicians.


If they'll lie about something small, they'll also lie about something huge.

He didn't just hurt his wife. As someone who reportedly did wonderful things politically, he probably became a role model for lots of young people.

What does his behavior say to young people, I wonder. That it's OK to lie to people and accuse others of having done wrong to HIM by hacking his account? And young men...that it's OK to send questionable (or even lewd...I hear there are worse photos out there) photos to young women?

WE are supposed to be better than that.

He hurt more people than just his wife.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ramulux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
30. At this point..
He doesn't even really matter. The biggest problem resulting from this nonsense is the legitimization and perceived victim-hood of Andrew Breitbart. The fact that the media is now apologizing to him and making him out to be this misunderstood truth teller is a really bad thing. Anthony Weiner screwed us over and has given ammunition to forces which seek to squash progressive voices.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #30
74. exactly..
and let's not forget the matter of Weiner righteously and rightfully going after Clarence Thoma's improper political actions..

When Spitzer got exposed it was in the middle of similar actions.. Not to mention Edwards, who I GAVE MONEY TO..

To have given Briebart legitimacy really, really really really sucks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
markpkessinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
31. Perhaps if you hadn't placed him on quite so high a pedestal to begin with . . .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liquorice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
32. I agree. But I do feel some measure of sympathy for him. I think he
has some fairly serious psychological issues and should get help. There's clearly something going wrong with him.

I didn't defend him because I had a feeling he was lying in that initial press conference, but it's still sad to see it all turn out like this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. Oh, don't get me wrong. I have sympathy for him.
I just don't trust him any longer, and I'm very angry that he added credibility to Breitbart.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chowder66 Donating Member (597 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #36
128. Breitbart would have broken this story either way
weiner could have told the truth from the getgo and breitbarts story still would have been true. The lie does not change that.

So.........
One story of breitbart's is true out of several bullshit stories = brietbart is legitimate?

One lie out of 13 years of service = Weiner is illigitimate?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Never Stop Dancin Donating Member (173 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
34. You must be feeling pretty foolish by now
that's okay--we're all guilty of serious lapses of judgement from time to time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. No. I don't feel foolish. A bit embarrassed, but not foolish.
A political office-holder who I trust can count on me for support and defense when he or she is under attack. I will never feel foolish for doing that. If that person embarrasses me by failing to act in a trustworthy way, that's embarrassing, but doesn't make me feel foolish. Why should it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
35. Oh MineralMan, tell me what it's like . . .
"My representative is Betty McCollum. I know her personally. I've helped get her elected twice now. She's also a strong progressive and I support her positions. She is for single payer health care, marriage equality, and many other issues I believe in. She is also not a liar."


I'm so jealous. My "representative" is Adrian (fucking) Smith. He's an oily little prick who attended Falwell's Liberty University. "Club for Growth" bought and paid for his election.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. It's hard work, actually. I met her shortly after I moved to
Minnesota, because she was my Congress member and I'm active politically. Since then, I've learned a lot about her and work to help get her elected because I support her positions. I'm lucky to live in a district where she can win elections.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GOTV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
39. It wasn't smart to do so ...
... whether you believed Rep Weiner or not it's not right to defend actions which, if true, don't matter anyway.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. I did not defend his actions. I defended his denial of such actions.
There is a difference. I defended his truthfulness. That does matter. Truthfulness is a very, very important thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flpab Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. I did also
I work with a majority of conservatives and i have heard nothing but trash all week about him and feel very let down that he lied.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GOTV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #41
136. I don't think that was a good strategy on your part ...
... or on the part of his other defenders.

And I think it will be a bad strategy in the future when some politician who we like is accused of embarrassing personal behavior.

Maybe this is a better way of putting it: If a politician is accused of X, before you defend him consider, would I still support that person if X is true? If so, don't deny that X is true, deny that X is important.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JazzQuipster Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #136
160. I agree...
I'm a newbie here, though I've been lurking on DU for a long, long time. I recently was prompted to join and post here by a thread touting the conspiracy theory that "they" (right-wingers) were out to get our guys, and offered up three examples, 1) the Kucinich redistricting, 2) the charges brought against John Edwards, and 3) Weinergate, which at the time he was still denying.

I thought the point of the thread and some of the people posting on it were misguided and decided that I wanted to post my opinion. I mean, yes the Kucinich redistricting is part of an evil right-wing plot, but the John Edwards affair? Edwards brought his troubles upon himself and I said so. I also said that I wasn't convinced that Weiner was innocent. Some people were going through elaborate contortions about the YFrog, the Twitter and the Intertubes...things of which I have no understanding, but I was judging Weiner by his own weak responses to the questions. It seemed like people here were doing more to defend Weiner's honor than Weiner was.

Well, somebody here jumped all over me accusing me of being a freeper, a liar, of promoting Fox News/hate-radio talking points, yada-yada-yada. I have to tell you, I was a bit surprised by the level of intolerance this supposed progressive displayed toward my opposing view. I always used to think that it's only the other side that has its rabid defenders, but it appears on our side, too. We have to remember that politicians, regardless of party, are humans subject to all the weaknesses that encompasses and we have to judge them by their actions and not automatically rush to their defense with our own rationalizations.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
orion007 Donating Member (466 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-11 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #160
181. X a million...thanks n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-11 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #39
180. Oh yeah...They "don't matter"
That's why he's about to lose his job

and we'll likely lose a needed progressive voice.

Good luck with that private world you live in. :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
VOX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
43. Well thought out,MineralMan. I agree 100%. As a former John Edwards donor & booster...
I too feel a sense of shame about supporting a person who, by their own behaviors, experienced a high-profile sex-drive meltdown. Once these guys cross over that line, they permanently break a trust and have sll the credibility of a garden snail.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
45. Good post. I think all of us are surprised
that Weiner would do something so idiotic and then lie to us for a week (only coming forward due to Breitbart blackmail).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
47. Did you call for the resignation of "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" Clinton?
Politicians lie?? It's their stock in trade.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
formernaderite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
48. I hear ya.... turns out this guy is very immature
It's way beyond, oops sorry I lied. I argued with friends and neigbors on his behalf!
The guy is an immature idiot... and he obviously thought the rest of us were just dumb enough to believe it.

Grow up Anthony, you are far too old to be acting like a thirteen year old.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #48
83. Definitely very immature
Strikes me as something a trashy celebrity would do. And to think he did this on more than one occasion!?

It's incredible how stupid he would be to tweet it that too. I mean, c'mon, this shows how clueless the guy is with regards to information dissemination on the internet. People like him should stay away from social networking. If he really wanted to send a pic of his dick, you'd think he'd have created an "anonymous" email account or something and sent it through that. But sending it through twitter? Wow, it's like was looking to get caught.

I think he needs some help. If I lived in his district I'd still vote for him and I think he's a great advocate for progressive policies, but this is just a big distraction nobody needed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #48
110. Yes. I lost all respect for his IQ and maturity level.
He is nothing but a middle school boy in a suit to me now (and not a very bright one).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
51. Okay, I have to ask...
did you really type: "For me, Weiner is a dick"?
:evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
52. And, he must be dumb as a rock. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
53. It's a betrayal.
I didn't spend a lot of time defending him (partly because I would never assume that a man I don't know is above sex-related stupidity), but I did put out my 2 cents that this is a trivial non-story. Well it might turn out to be story yet, but it still pales to the various sex scandals republicans have treated us to in recent years. And I would still take him as my rep in a heartbeat over the republican that I currently have.

I think we as a nation are WAY too hung up on sex. That said, Weiner lied, he clearly is a dick, and I don't blame anyone who defended him for feeling betrayed and totally pissed.

I'm glad you have a better rep in Betty McCollum. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
54. You no longer believe what he says about what? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bullwinkle428 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
55. Now you can probably relate better to those of us who were Edwards
supporters at one time, and willingly and enthusiastically donated to his presidential campaign.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #55
75. me too.. and now we're reminded of it again
I guess the lesson is, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me... politicians of every stripe have just been brought down yet another notch, and I wonder how much further in the ditch they can go before we have our "awakening" ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
56. I knew he was hiding something the first tme I saw him speak about it
it's why I posted the GUYS, WOMEN DON'T WANT TO SEE PICTURES OF YOUR JUNK thread
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #56
65. Yes, Weiner's performance was weak and uncertain. The guy was a firebrand
of the first order.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #56
71. Yes, and those who made those claims were severaly rebuked by many here on DU.
As if we were anti-progressive or something. I suppose we wont hear any appologies from those idiots.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #71
105. naw
they're the same fanbase who think everything is just peachy-keen with the White House
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #105
130.  I think it was the anti-Obama people who were most supportive of Weiner,
simply because he is more progressive.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #130
165. we are not anti-Obama
we just wish he would do a better job
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #130
166. Exactly. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #105
156. ouch
:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
trud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
57. It's just amazing to me
that when someone acts like a dirt bag, and people post about how disappointed in them, other posters call them sanctimonious and prigs and judgmental, etc.

How low have standards gotten anyway? Why should it be bizarre to want the people who represent us to be decent?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #57
84. +10
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #57
157. those are the same people that will be front and center screaming their lungs out..
the next time a republican pulls some stupid shit like this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
neoralme Donating Member (812 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #57
164. That's bothering me too. Maybe this is the 21st century's answer to
Sodom and Gomorrah. I feel badly for AW, but that was yesterday and now he's gone.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueStater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
58. As a former supporter of John Edwards, I know the feeling.
I'll never support any politician 100% ever again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NYC Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
59. I will defend him (and am not embarrassed) because no one has yet shown an instance of him lying
Edited on Mon Jun-06-11 08:20 PM by NYC Liberal
about anything related to his job. That is all I care about and it is all anyone else should care about.

I like what he does in Congress. I like his positions. I like what he stands for.

That is all that should matter. People's private lives should remain private. Lying about something that nobody has any business knowing or questioning means nothing to me. It may mean something to people who know him personally, but not to me and hopefully not to anyone else.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #59
92. he lied about using govt resources today. one of his sexters has
proof....just saying..read radaronline....or, just trash me, the messenger
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PerpetuallyDazed Donating Member (806 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #92
113. I read that, too. But was it on work time or on his lunch break?
I think the details are really important here. How much of the "taxpayers time" was he devoting to his little hobby? I quickly text my hubby on bathroom breaks at work... is that time stealing?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #113
123. the gossip press is all over it
tmz.com and radaronline....they've got emails and texts with time stamps.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Duval Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #59
147. Totally agree, NYC Lib.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #59
158. one more time... posting a pic on a public site removes all expectations of privacy..
Edited on Tue Jun-07-11 04:59 PM by frylock
this became a PUBLIC matter the second weiner used OUR internet to upload his junk. nobody was hacked.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
61. Butthead would say,"You Like his positions?"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
philly_bob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
62. Clarence Thomas, Clarence Thomas! (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #62
88. exactly. this is our history now. the official blackmailers bring out their shit when they want to d
divert. and they have 1000 unchallenged radio stations to pound it through. the wiener details are irrelevant, how long did they sit on it?

clarence thomas has to go.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
63. As soon as I heard his press conference..
... a couple days ago, I knew he was guilty and I don't see how anyone could come to any other conclusion. He bobbed and weaved and wouldn't answer a simple question. I guess he needed to buy some time to work things out with his wife or think up a better story or whatever but it was OBVIOUS that he had some involvement in the affair.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #63
70. yep
it was obvious. Boring but obvious.

A shame.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
66. I really hate when politicians do this kind of crap and we are left to defend them and feel stupid
doing so. Personally I don't care what they do in their personal life but if you get called out just be honest about it. If he was honest about it in the first place that would be allot easier for his supporters to defend.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
67. From the Redundancy Dept of Redundancy: "Weiner is a dick"
:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
68. Weiner just caused the image of Progressives and Democrats to drop several notches..
It may have implications for the 2012 elections. What a f'king idiot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
69. Why??
What were you thinking?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
72. Well, that's a day you'll never get back -
- too bad you wasted it defending Weiner.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #72
126. Every day is a day I'll never get back.
That's how it works. Sometimes, a day gets wasted. There it is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
73. I appreciate your post, it's well said and gets to the heart of the matter - trust. (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
76. Damn, I hate politicians.
What next? Bernie Sanders stealing petty cash? If you ever wonder why people don't vote, maybe it's because there is not a damn one you can trust..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
78. So, I guess people can only hold office if they married their high school sweethearts
and never looked or talked to any other members of the opposite sex. Good luck finding them. Good luck finding anyone who has never been stupid about sex.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #78
161. whoosh!
i missed that part of the op. would you be so kind as to point that out?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
79. I'd been defending him to Republicans I know. Like you, I'm tremendously disappointed in him.
Disappointed, and stunned that he could have been so stupid in the first place...and that he compounded the stupidity by lying about it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Generic Brad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
81. I felt the same way about John Edwards and Gary Hart
Perhaps we project our hopes onto our favorite politicians and forget they are just as weak and flawed as we are.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #81
82. I believe I have much better judgement than that. I'm sorry.
I don't project anything onto to politicians anymore. I am really starting to believe that, to be a politician, one must have more than just garden variety weaknesses and flaws. :(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DallasNE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
85. Weiner's Story Always Was Troubling
So I took a wait and see approach. What was revealed today didn't address the issue of two photo's (one published upsidedown) or the two underage girls that were wrongly dragged into this story so Breitbart is not completely off the hook. (I only saw limited new coverage of Weiner's press conference). The only winners in this sordid story is the underage girl nicknamed Betty and the 21 year old college student the photo was sent briefly. Everybody else seems to have had problems telling the whole truth. Should Weiner resign? Tough question. He did lie about sexting and that is pure sleeze but Vitter not only is still in the Senate after having sex with hookers, he was easily re-elected. I am not yet calling for him to resign but would be pleased if he did just that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
86. ahhhh don't worry about it. the right always gets it both ways so he was fucked either way
he could have come clean and then what? it's be the same.

would you have confessed to the hypocritical idiots out there?

he was an idiot for making it public and a shit for deceiving his wife and family. did he fool around? is it our business?

but i'm thinking of starting a web site where anyone can post their erections or camel toes under cotton.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Duval Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #86
150. LOL!!! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
center rising Donating Member (446 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
87. I can't defend him either.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hulka38 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
89. I would like this subject to be over with tomorrow
but I know that's not going to happen. But I hope it doesn't carry on much longer. Let's get away from the tabloid, personality stories and back to the important issues.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #89
94. what are the important issues
that we have any control over?

There is one issue only- when do we take this country away from the liars, the cheaters, the crooks, and the abusers? They will not let go without a fight, and they have shown their absolute eargerness for such a fight. When will we?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
1620rock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #89
98. In reply to NYC Liberal who said......
"Lying about something that nobody has any business knowing or questioning means nothing to me."

Well it should because it brings into play his judgement, honesty, and common sense.
I too defended him. I only touch a hot stove once.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
100. Meh. Who cares? It is kind of funny, but otherwise..meh.
Let his wife be mad at him, but it is none of my business.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shimmergal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
101. You-all are not going to like
what I'm going to say, but--

Because our society is so messed up about sex, almost everyone caught in a ssexual peccadillo is going to lie about it at first. Certainly if their career depends on maintaining a certain image, as a politician's does.

I fully agree that the chain of events makes those of us who defended him look foolish, and gives Breitbart legitimacy which he doesn't deserve, and tarnished one of our few Congressional spokesmen for progressive values. And these results are all regrettable. But to have outrage simply because Wiener lied about it defies human nature. Actually, telling the whole story immediately would probably be more of a sign of a disturbed personality.

OK, I'll duck for the brickbats to follow.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #101
106. I think you're probably right.
The way the public will see this, anyway, is that he sent racy pictures to some women on the internet and, big deal. It won't be over thought three ways to Sunday as it's being over thought here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
103. Any researcher into human sexuality will tel you- -

Most people lie about sex, men and women. It's what makes sex research based on surveys mostly a joke. It's also a joke to think that somebody's sex life says anything about them as a politician or a leader. I mean, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson all philandered. The most monogamous president of the late 20th century was probably Nixon. And we all know what a great president he was. We know what Arnold Schwarzenegger did, and while his governorship wasn't remarkable, it wasn't a disaster.

And with the Internet, we're going to be seeing things like this all the time. From Democratic leadership, too. Get used to it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #103
140. "Get used to it"?....I don't think so..
Actually, whoever else pulls this juvenile shit better "get used" to being thrown under the bus by his party and his constituents.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-11 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #140
176. Then you're going to have to throw until your arms get tired.

And your arms will tire out a long time before it stops, which it won't. Not necessarily from Weiner's brand of misbehavior, but things just as scandalous. With modern technology, we're finally seeing how people really act and it's a little short of the way we desire them to act.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-11 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #176
178. I don't think so, caseymoz
For one thing, it's not only my "arms" that are throwing

I've got lots of company, it seems. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-11 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #178
182. And wait to see that a quarter of your company are guilty themselves.

I just think it's important that we at least have a better baseline of human sexual behavior before we condemn for what might just be common, if publicly embarrassing acts. Especially if it's merely embarrassing rather than illegal.

If there's one thing about the Internet, it's un-censoring. I think through history hamankind been very good at lying to itself about sex. It's what censorship was meant to do.

It means our sexual morality is informed by a very cleansed version of what our actual behavior is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-11 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #182
183. A quarter of that company MAY be guilty themselves
but you know what?...They're not public figures and the taxpayers aren't paying their salaries.

Beyond that, you might be interested to know that I do NOT like the calls for his resignation coming from other democrats....For one thing, 51 percent of his constituents are apparently against his resigning, and for another, it didn't happen with the two repukes, Vitter and Ensign, who were caught up in similar and arguably worse situations.

Having said that, I just don't believe that male public servants are "entitled" to public sexual license and of course the defense being mounted here IS about male sexual license...If a congresswoman were caught tweeting beaver shots of herself to strange men, she'd be gone in five minutes, and we all know that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-11 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #183
184. Then why not just make it fair and not expect the congresswoman to resign?

I, for one, don't think she should be gone for that, and if the public thinks different, it's because they haven't thought it through. Or won't.

And to your first paragraph, we also don't pay public figures to not have a sex life. Because we can presume that they are, like the rest of us, sexual beings, there's no reason why a public figure should not be sexual and even kinky, nor is there any reason to presume that they are not. Unless you're going to make chastity part of their job description, a pretty foolish thing to do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-11 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #184
185. Because the "Public Sex for Congress " crusade isn't at the top of my agenda?
You're free to go with the libertine sideshow if you want

but in doing so, you're missing the real, more important issues here.


I stand with the grownups...Sorry. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-11 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #185
186. Not at the top of mine either.

I'm not missing any. You're inserting some that aren't there. It's actually far simplier than that.

Off topic , but sex is, literally, the most grown-up thing that there is. We acknowledge that when we call sexually related things "adult." It's not in a child's psychology in the least. So, there's more than a little ironic when you say you stand with the grown-ups. I've observed the ones who are the strictest about it to be among the least grown up, the most hypocritical, and among the meanest.

You should look closer at those "grown-ups."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tcaudilllg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-11 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #103
175. The party can do better than Congressman Weiner
It's not just what he did... it's the man and his relationship to his office.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-11 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #175
177. The same was said of Barney Frank.

And Bill Clinton.

The only questions are, does this have anything to do with his integrity in office? Does this interfere with his job? Does it corrupt him in other ways? Does it effect the spending of public funds? Did he pull an Edwards anywhere?

It's not like the Conservatives who make pro-family and virtuous sexual behavior part of their platform and appeal. There's no real political fraud or hypocrisy here.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vinee Donating Member (421 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
104. How do you know when a politician is lying?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #104
137. If his/her lips are moving
there's at least a 50% probability he/she is lying. In the case of Republicans, make that 100%.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobburgster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 04:29 AM
Response to Original message
107. Your honesty is refreshing! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 05:47 AM
Response to Original message
108. if only he'd just responded, oops you caught me,
it could be a non story. but he had to lie. which sucks, because i love that guy.

sometimes i think it's ALL scripted. i do. i'm like just about 100% burned out right now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 06:30 AM
Response to Original message
109. He doesn't lie about fighting for us
Edited on Tue Jun-07-11 06:33 AM by lunatica
And ultimately that's why he was elected. And it's why I wouldn't welcome his resignation. I don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bathwater. That's teabagger black/white thinking.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
112. meh, ya got suckered, so did I, but tell me one motherfucker in Congress that isn't suckering us,
that would be "all of us" and I do mean "all of us." All about the rich and their piles of money they have no intention of investing in this country. All they are worried about is taking more.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shireen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #112
125. Bernie Sanders
i trust him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-11 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #125
171. Good point.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oldbanjo Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
115. I thought lying was a requirement to be a politician or on Fox News.
He is one person that I would not have expected to do something this stupid but to think that a Politician wouldn't lie is unbelievable.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #115
116. Weiner's lies were vigorous and frequent.
My standards for politicians are higher than that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
120. defending him all day on a message board? Damn dude, the fridge needs cleaned..
some yardwork on side of house to do..

You still haven't fixed that piece of trim over the door....

:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #120
134. Funny shit.
:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #120
138. No can do, had to visit the dentist to have my gums scraped
and the bathroom tile needed re-grouting. To quote Scarlett O'Hara, "Tomorrow is another day."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #138
144. least you have tile, I've got mine to the studs right now..
waiting on wife to make final decision on design of built in shelves for shower

I don't want to have to start over a third time :P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #144
146. Busy, buys, busy. Who has time to defend weiner?
or Anthony, for that matter. ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Left coast liberal Donating Member (889 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
122. I can relate but am not taking it that personally.
What he did was VERY, VERY, VERY stoopid but it doesn't make him a bad legislator. I hope. He may go down in flames, yes, and if so what a prissy, prim fucking country we are.

The Repugs wouldn't shoot their own. But, us Dems? In a minute.

Also, they all fucking lie, all the time. I just hope they only lie about who they are screwing and wancking off to.

Sheesh...

Where is the fainting couch?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #122
142. "Prissy, prim fucking country" my ass....It was STUPID, showed bad judgement and LIES.n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Exultant Democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
124. His terrible judgement blows my mind. Even worse he is clearly one of the
smarter members of the house. I shudder to think of what the tea baggers have gotten up to since their taste of power.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
backtomn Donating Member (424 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
127. Don't feel too bad, you were not alone....
It is not a sin to defend a person in whom you believe. The fault is his. The shame is his.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
129. Yeah, he's a dick.
I defended him. But there are some Democrats that have never engaged in sleazy sexual behavior that I have even less respect for. Like those that would attack union rights and teachers and those that would cave to Republican demands to prop up a trickle down economy.

There are no Republicans deserving of respect -none. Just making that clear.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
underseasurveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
132. Weiner is a dick.
Can't help it :spray: I love that line.

I am in agreement with your well stated opinion. Not to mention, geezlaweez congressman Weiner you aren't 15 years old. God how embarrassing and then lie about it. :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #132
145. Precisely....He acted like a fifteen year old and I don't trust fifteen year olds with public office
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rainlillie Donating Member (654 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
139. He never owed me any explanation , because I'm not his wife and he didn't break any laws
He's a human being who made a mistake.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Duval Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
141. My husband just made a joke, which is: The Titanic is
sinking and the MSM plus others are talking about the First Mate's "affair". As one caller (from his district) said on the Thom Hartmann's radio broadcast, "He is an effective Congressman, he should not resign, and when I voted for him I was Not Voting for The Pope". If we turned our backs on all who made a mistake, or had an affair, or lied, there would not only be no Congress, there would be no Voters! :silly: :think:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rainlillie Donating Member (654 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #141
143. LOL! so very true.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
151. I have to agree and that's what really sucks about all of this
Ultimately I think this boils down to whether or not his district votes for him again.

I do think he can bounce back. I remember a scandal Barney Frank went thru about a decade ago (probably back in the 90's) He managed to come back stronger then ever.

I won't defend Weiner again but I won't call for his beheading either.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Duval Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #151
159. Fair enough, LynneSin. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SadPanda Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
162. Sadly, there is no defense of him. He let thousands of people actively defend him....
And lied to them while it happened.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #162
167. I am astonished that some on DU are still defending Weiner.
Even to the point of dragging the long dead through the mud to defend Weiner. Let me state this as bluntly as possible. Given some of the shady elements of his history, Weiner is nothing more than a blister on a little used finger of great men like FDR, MLK, Jack Kennedy and Bobby Kennedy. Weiner defenders, get over yourselves, allow Weiner to sink into the swamp that he himself created.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ermasdaughter Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-11 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
172. I agree.
Sickened and soooo deeply disappointed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-11 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
187. I don't think that our elected officials should be obligated to tell us the truth about their
personal lives.

Our best elected officials are attacked mercilessly for any slipup in their personal lives. The real sleazebags, like Gingrich and Vitter, basically get a free ride. As far as I'm concerned, Weiner was not obligated to admit to me any of the details of his personal life. Nor was Bill Clinton, nor David Vitter, or John Edwards or anyone else. So, when they disclaim allegations against themselves, even if they have to lie to do it, I don't care.

The bottom line is this. Almost anyone on earth would lie to avoid public embarassment if they thought they could get away with the lie -- whether they're a politician or not. We shouldn't be so puritanical about the standards we set for our politicians. It should be enough if they tell us the truth about how they represent us in the capacity of their public office.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Aug 27th 2014, 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC