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If all y'all wonder why Tennessee's politics are now so Reich-like, read this (long) exchange

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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-11 01:30 PM
Original message
If all y'all wonder why Tennessee's politics are now so Reich-like, read this (long) exchange
Preface: For those of you who own televisions, it is distressingly common for my home state Tennessee to get air time these days. On Comedy Central, Tennessee's legislature seems to be a long-standing running gag as our Republican legislators slobber and trip all over themselves to see who can introduce the most idiotic and ant-American legislation. Chief among the usual suspects are Bill "Strange Fruit" Ketron (R-Auschwitz), the principal architect (ok, plagiarizer) of many anti-Muslim bills here; and Stacey "Nacho Loonbre" Campfield (R-Stockholm) whose "don't say gay" legislation does a disservice to that 43 year old never-married bachelor and suspected meth tweeker who was kicked out of a UT football game several years ago for wearing a Mexican wrestler's mask and scaring all the little kiddies.

Juxtaposed with those unfunny Comedy Central images was the visit of President Obama to Memphis last week to give the graduation address at an inner city high school. Amid all the excitement that you might expect for our President in one of the blackest and bluest cities in the South, I wonder if anyone bothered to brief the President that Shelby County's voting machines (within which Memphis is located) (s)elected an entirely white Republican slate for its county offices last August. That sickening smell emanating from the polling places in the birthplace of the blues in that election was not three-day-old rotting catfish it was election-fraud facilitating flying monkey shit.

With that as background, last week a blog entry on the Nashville Scene's "Pith in the Wind" political blog was posted to criticize the heavily-male representation in a forthcoming "values summit" sponsored by the TN Democratic Party, a summit that the blog poster labeled a "sausage fest". Besides the many sexist comments that this blog entry received (and despite the reality that a few TN Democratic leaders more resemble country club cocktail weenies than sausages these days), I commented that the real problem was not how we hold our mouths when we express our values to Tennessee voters, but how our votes are counted (or not) when we cast them. My comment surfaced one of the several rabid flying monkeys who seems always ready, at a moment's notice, to attack any suggestion of election fraud in Tennessee.

What follows is my exchange with this poster. Although I go by "small d' democrat" on that blog, I will label my comments here as "FBN". My opponent posts by his real name (I suppose) Mark Rogers, but for the sake of honesty and accuracy, I will label his comments here as FM (for flying monkey).

Sit back, pull up a bowl of popcorn and learn just how serious our battle is to save our democracy here in the home of Andrew Jackson, a battle that is also being waged in Wisconsin and any other state that still conducts elections using "vapor-based" voting systems.

FBN
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FBN: Instead of another in a nauseatingly never-ending series of seminars (with the same ole, same ole usual suspect motivational speakers) to teach Democrats how to hold their mouths just right in order to win elections here in Tennessee, the TNDP could move forward to honor the only value that will save the party (and our political process) here and elsewhere -- counting the votes the way they are cast. In a state with 8% more self-identified Democrats than Republicans, it is puzzling why our elections keep turning out like just the opposite. Unless you suspect, as I do, that the Republicans' most reliable "mandate" (and the one they will defend against all logic, common sense and decency) is in the secret voting machine computer code that counts (sic) our votes.

We're running out of options, folks, now that the TN Voter Confidence Act was finally drowned in the Senate bathtub yesterday. Continuing to play nice and being even more earnest with the voters aren't two of those options. (Don't think of the elephant -- think of the treason that is election theft and the remedies provided to address treason in our Constitution.)

Might I suggest a call or twenty to the USDOJ or maybe a camp meeting over in Athens, Tennessee to hear from some of their old-timers about just what it sometimes takes to save our democracy here in the home of Andrew Jackson and the birthplace of the blues. Other than that, it's just more happy-happy, pollyannishly-earnest pom-pom waving, and it matters not a whit whether there are sausages under the cheerleaders' skirts (or not).


FM: It helps to remember that FBN lives in the world of paranoia that would make the X-Files seem like Munchkin land. Consider this sentence:

"Unless you suspect, as I do, that the Republicans' most reliable "mandate" (and the one they will defend against all logic, common sense and decency) is in the secret voting machine computer code that counts (sic) our votes."

The fact that the Legislature which bought these machines was controlled by the Democrats and that the Democrats controlled the Secretary of State's office and all the county election commissions until after the 2008 election has no impact on his big conspiracy theory.

And even if the state does have 8% more self-identified Democrats than Republicans, Republican victories can be explained by apathy on the part of Democrats and the possibility that independent voters might lean heavily Republican.

But FBN loves to see the big conspiracy because he cannot accept that voters do not understand that they are not as smart as he is.


FBN: As for FM (who still is too timid or testosterone-challenged to meet or debate me in public -- no surprise there), I am likely more aware of the process by which Tennessee counties threw away good money on unverifiable voting machines than you are (except, of course, for the conversations within the TN/GOP to which I was not invited.) That process included requiring all TN county election officials to be indoctrinated by a Texas-based outfit funded by the voting machine companies to pimp their unverifiable DRE wares, run by a Rush Limp-balls look-alike who was also invited as the keynote speaker to every state meeting of voting officials -- meetings that TN voters were required to pay $250 apiece to attend even though they involved entirely public officials discussing entirely public business (the business of elections) AND at which those same citizens were barred from speaking or even asking questions.

I also know that the mess we're in is principally the fault of Brook Thompson, the former State Election Coordinator who -- instead of being fired like all other Secretary of State staff when "Too Tall" Tre Hargett and Mark "Human Error" Goins took control of our elections -- was awarded with a cushy administrative law judge position, suggesting his own true flying monkey colors.

I am also aware that the TN Voter Confidence Act, had it ever been implemented, would have allowed us to run elections 40-50% cheaper, up to ten times faster (in a head-to-head comparison of a single DRE vs. a single opscan using paper ballots) AND would have allowed our elections to be verifiable. The fact that TN Republicans (s)elected by the unverifiable voting machines have been falling all over themselves ever since to repeal the TVCA and protect our current indefensible voting processes speaks volumes, despite your puny protestations to the contrary.

FM, you remain good at insulting me in this forum. You also remain unwilling to meet me face-to-face. One of us wants every vote in Tennessee to be counted as it was cast, regardless of whether that vote agrees with mine or not. The other wants to protect an expensive, slow and unverifiable vapor ballot-based "mandate" that disguises (or perverts) the true will of the people. My position would help keep our governments -- at every level -- close to the middle of the road in terms of political process and keep our politicians beholden and keenly aware of keeping true to the consent of the governed if they wanted to remain in office. Your system has our legislature attempting to pass laws (e.g., guns on college campuses) that 80%+ of affected groups, institutions and citizens strongly oppose, not to mention blatantly anti-American bills banning freedom of religion and instituting a Tennessee-specific currency. We know where you get these bills and it's not within the boundaries of our fair state. What's the matter -- are you folks too stupid to pen your own putrid perversions of the American ideal?

Tennessee Republicans used to be led proudly (with justification) by moderates like Howard Baker and Winfield Dunn. Now you have populated, and soiled, the General Assembly with overt racists, pug-ugly jackals, tone-deaf tinkerers with our Constitution and Hooters girls. Proud of yourself, are you?

It really does suck to be all y'all. Any time you want to meet me face-to-face to discuss this further, you know where to reach me. We can find some neutral ground for our meeting. As for me, I'd like to suggest Athens, TN, where WWII GIs of all political persuasions taught us back in '46 what it sometimes takes to save our democracy. (Back then, they fought a corrupt Democratic political machine, and I applaud them for it.) Seems like those veterans might need to do a little schooling of you and your ilk out behind the woodshed pretty soon (for your sake and for ours).

Have a nice day, but keep looking over your shoulder. The arc of history is coming up behind you and it is gaining ground fast.


FM: FBN, you are pretty much the only person who buys into the conspiracy theory of organized election-fixing by Republicans. I do think that more people in the state believe that there are aliens from outer space (I hesitate to refer to anyone with a faster-than-light drive as 'illegal') walking among us than who agree with you.

The Democrats are not having their 'Values Summit (pause for inner-smirk given the liberal distaste for the word 'values' when used by anyone who uses it in a way they dislike) because they believe Republicans stole the last few elections. They would be in federal court with the Justice Department suing to overturn the elections and trying to put the people in charge in jail. Of course, in pre-2009 elections, that would be Democratic appointees.

So FBN, when your own side doesn't believe your arguments, it would seem you have two options.

1) Rethink your arguments and get some therapy for the paranoia.

2) Attend the 'Values Summit' (reflexive inner smirk) and start looking under the speakers' beds for pods.


FBN: FM, you continue to betray your own ignorance and self-serving cynicism (as well as your cowardice). But then, that's no surprise. Those seem to be endemic problems these days in what was once the proud, moderate and courageous TN/GOP.

In national opinion polls, over 90% of Americans want election systems that are verifiable. Despite your party's best efforts, Tennessee is still part of the USA (though it's unclear for how much longer) so I expect those numbers are similar here.

In 2008, EVERY Senator (regardless of party) in our General Assembly voted for the TN Voter Confidence Act (TVCA) to ban unverifiable DREs and replace them with paper ballots/opscan and mandatory manual audits. All but two House members (both Republicans, who at least were being honest) voted for the same legislation, but only after the legislation was amended to allow "one more" unverifiable election using DREs.

Then, when the TN/GOP won EVERY open seat in our legislature that year from Memphis to Mountain City in the face of a great blue tidal wave nationwide (an election result in our state that is still identified by political scientists nationwide as the most anomalous result in 2008) and in the face of Tennessee voter registration drives where Dems started with an 8% advantage and where they out-registered new voters over Repubs many-fold, your party suddenly decided (and announced) that repealing the TVCA was one of its three most important legislative priorities. Is that the definition of "flip-flopping", "protecting your 'mandate'" or "tampering with evidence of election fraud"? For my money, it illustrates all three.

As for "fixing" our state, please stop breaking what doesn't need to be fixed. Subverting the will of local governments re: anti-discrimination laws (and driving much-needed new employers from our state in the process), working to overturn freedom of religion by introducing anti-Muslim legislation and inviting overt European racists to speak at "Six Flags Over Jesus" churches run by old lady killers (where the separation of church and state is so 18th century), introducing bill after bill after bill after bill to restrict and/or prevent the exercise of the franchise by the citizens of our state, pushing your gun-fellating fetish on our college campuses and public parks despite the loud and overwhelming objections of local government officials, police chiefs and college administrators -- with anti-American, idiotic fixes like those that few patriotic Tennesseans of any political stripe would support, it's pretty clear that the reich-wing "fix" is in here in the home of Andrew Jackson, the home of the Athens, TN GI Party that once saved our democracy and, in the process, ushered in a real "good government" movement here in Tennessee that benefited everyone.

If you're concerned about fixing anything, I would suggest fixing your understanding of the phrases "liberty and justice for all", "the consent of the governed" and "of the people, by the people and for the people." I would be happy to help you "come to Jesus" on the meaning of those terms, if you would only find some way to fix your courage deficiency and meet me face-to-face, in an open forum. Any time. Any place.

As for attending this pathetic "Values Summit", any forum that features Mike McWherter (or, as I like to call him, "Big Daddy Junior") is not going to be discussing any values I am familiar with or, for that matter, that any self-respecting, patriotic Democrat (or democrat) believes in. But I am sure they'd be happy to make room for you.

Paranoid? Hardly.

Prepared to meet you face-to-face, any time, anywhere? Most assuredly.

-------
(The thread then was joined by a misogynistic flying monkey male who thought I was a woman and promptly insulted me in that vein to the tune that no woman ever earned her political position on her own merits. That occasioned a response by a flying monkey female telling the other ape to sit down and shut up. It's fun to see the flying monkeys sling their shit at each other every once in a while.)
--------

FBN: Glad to know my feminine side shows somewhere.

As for folks who disagree with me, there are obviously some, here and everywhere. However, I'm happy to stand with the 90%+ in this country who support free, fair AND verifiable elections -- regardless of their positions on other issues. That's why I am a small "d" democrat and remain a proud American.

PS: In point of fact, the last time I lived in a state where voters register by party, I registered as a Republican. However, that was in another galaxy, far, far (far) away from here.


FM: FBN, there is no point in debating someone who insists on believing in the 'Big Conspiracy' instead of accepting the facts. If there were some reason to believe that the voting machines were fixed in 2008, don't you think that the Tennessee Democrats would have demanded an investigation? Or did the Republicans buy them off? Who controlled the machinery of elections?

The major reason for Republican success in Tennessee in 2008 was that a major part of the traditional Democratic coalition, i.e. rural and suburban mostly native Democrats, either stayed home or voted Republican. And the key to that dissatisfaction was the choice of Senator Barack Obama.

Here is the county-by-county voting from the 2008 Presidential Primary. http://www.tn.gov/sos/election/results/200 . Take a few minutes and look it over. Note the places where Clinton did best and compare them to Republican gains that November.

After the Presidential Primary some observers, myself included, predicted that the Republicans would make gains in Tennessee if Senator Obama were the nominee. It was the unwillingness of some Tennessee Democrats to vote for Obama, whether because of race, his leftist affiliations, his ties to Bill Ayers and 60s terrorism, Reverend Wright or whatever, not voting machines, that determined the 2008 results.

In 2010 the Obama-factor was again a major reason for Republican success. The lack of strong Democratic candidates for Governor and Congress helped doom Democrats down-ticket.

That you prefer to believe in the Big Conspiracy is something that I cannot help, unless someone needs a car battery to provide electro-shock. But I know better than to try and debate people who think the world is flat, that the New Deal ended the Depression, that Alger Hiss was innocent or that Republican election victories in Tennessee required fixed voting machines.


FBN: FM, it's not a matter of knowing better, it's a matter of lacking a pair. Tell me, is that a requirement for male membership in the TN/GOP these days? Between you and Tre Hargett, that does seem to be a membership requirement. That, and defending the indefensible.

I would think that anyone who truly believes I am delusional would jump at the chance to debate me in public on the insecurities associated with our Tennessee elections, the abundant evidence to document those insecurities and their consequences and the red-stained reasons those deficiencies persist.

Since you're not jumping, I 'spect your reluctance stems from some other ... deficiency (intellectual, moral or hormonal.) Which is it? All three, perhaps?

If this issue weren't so important, I'd be happy to let it lie. You and I both know better but only one of us is willing to have his (or is it her?) cards counted (and his/her motives and sanity questioned) in public.

Who knows, maybe I was naturally born without a pair myself, as one of your misogynistic fellow flying monkeys on this thread seems to believe. There's certainly one way to find out -- an open debate in a public forum. I'll show you mine ... if you'll show me yours.

What are you waiting for, FM? Prove me delusional in public or risk losing your illegitimate control of our elections in a state where your only sure mandate (or at least the only one you folks will defend on blogs, if not in public) is a vapor-based voting system whose machines are programmed in secret by far-reich Dominionists, an election system overseen by a law school graduate of Pat Robertson's Regents University, for Christ's sake. (Motto: "God told us to steal elections to save you from yourselves.")

Prove to all of us that all y'all don't really suck or demonstrate (by your continued fear-based failure to debate me) that y'all are a much, much greater threat to this country than any foreign power or any religion previously protected by our Constitution.

Anywhere, any time, FM. Anywhere. Any time.

Absent that, you're nothing but foul far-reich sound and fury, and we all know what that signifies.

PS to FM:

Twice on this thread, you have shrieked "If there was election fraud in Tennessee in 2008, why didn't the US Department of Justice immediately investigate it?" (or words to that effect).

Maybe, FM, the USDOJ didn't investigate election fraud in Tennessee in November, 2008 because the USDOJ was still under the control of President Karl Rove (or his sock-puppet, George Bush) after that election, two people who owed their own positions to those same unverifiable voting machines which (s)elected them in 2004.

Even after Obama was inaugurated, it took Attorney General Eric Holder (one of Obama's most disappointing appointees) more than a year to replace the flying monkey federal District Attorneys in Tennessee and many other states. Thus, no investigation.

For a very convincing review of the overwhelming evidence for the 2004 Presidential election fraud facilitated by the same unverifiable voting systems that you love so much, I would strongly recommend two documentaries: "UNCOUNTED: The New Math of American Elections" by Nashville's own David Earnhardt; and "STEALING AMERICA, Vote by Vote" by Academy Award-nominated director Dorothy Fadiman.

I'd be happy to lend you either or both of those films for your viewing pleasure, when we meet face-to-face to debate the consent of the governed. You can bring as many flying monkeys as you'd like to the debate and I'll bring along some Americans (of all political stripes) who just want their votes counted (and able to be recounted) as they were cast.

Operators are standing by .... Until you call, I'll enjoy the sounds of crickets (or cicadas). They both make more sense and they both love the moral foundations of this country more than you appear to.


FM: FBN, to quote you: "Maybe, FM, the USDOJ didn't investigate election fraud in Tennessee in November, 2008 because the USDOJ was still under the control of President Karl Rove (or his sock-puppet, George Bush) after that election, two people who owed their own positions to those same unverifiable voting machines which (s)elected them in 2004."

This is the sort of 'reasoning' that confirms your lack of standing to be debated. The federal government has more than just a couple of years to investigate election fraud. And you fail to deal with the issue of why the Tennessee Democrats didn't even make allegations of fraud. They were polling during the campaign too and they saw the hammer falling on them.

Besides, if the voting machines are so fixed, why did the Democrats win Congress in 2006? How come they won almost all the closely contested Senate races that year? During the 2008 elections even liberal analysts concluded that it was unlikely that the Democrats would take the Senate. Yet they did.

There is no issue for anyone except the paranoids like you.


FBN: FM, now you're conflating national voting results in 2006 and 2008 with what has happened/is happening in our state. One of the many, many (many) reasons why the 2006/2008 voting results nationwide swung toward Democrats is that, after the 2004 Presidential election theft facilitated by unverifiable voting systems, state after state after state banned that unverifiable voting equipment in favor of more transparent and verifiable systems.

In 2008, the anomalous state the real outlier -- was Tennessee, whose Republicans were apparently for those same "good government" reforms BUT ONLY after one more election (2008) conducted on the unsafe equipment. Then, when our unverifiable voting machines (s)elected your ilk to control our legislature for the first time since Reconstruction, suddenly all you flying monkeys were against free, fair, (cheap, fast) and verifiable elections.

I have nothing more to say to you. You are a coward and a co-conspirator in the ongoing election theft that stains our state and gives us Constitution-strangling Hooters girls (of both sexes) as our flying monkey faux leaders. You will never face me in public because your entire raison d'etre requires maintaining a fraud-friendly election system here in Tennessee to give you the appearance of legitimacy that you could not obtain otherwise.

However, I will depart this thread (knowing I can never win an argument with a willfully ignorant and self-servingly dishonest man) by leaving the final words to Citizen Tom Paine (another serious, common sense sausage-slinger), who did have three very appropriate things to say about this issue and about you:

"The right of voting for representatives is the primary right by which other rights are protected. To take away this right is to reduce a man to slavery. For slavery consists in being subject to the will of another. And he that has not a vote (ed: a verifiable vote) in the election of representatives is in this case."

"It is the duty of every patriot to protect his country from its government (ed: particularly when that government cannot demonstrate to the satisfaction of its citizens its own legitimacy)"

"To argue with a man who has renounced his reason (ed: much less his conscience, his respect for the consent of the governed and his love of country) is like giving medicine to the dead."

Keep looking over your shoulder, FM.

Any time. Anywhere.
-------

Although this debate continues on-line (and I do hope some of y'all will join in), I want to end this DU thread with a comment posted by Shannon Williford, my good friend and fellow election fraud fighter (and a kick-ass harmonica player who arranged for all the musical entertainment at our 2005 National Election Reform Conference). Shannon posted his comment using his real name, so I will use it here also. Here's Shannon's take on the issue:

Shannon: The truth is that, whether you believe there has been election fraud or not, it is unconscionable that we allow our votes to be "counted" by machines that we cannot check; machines that we have to trust are accurate. We have to trust that the machines haven't been compromised by inaccurate programming, whether by accident or design. Why is it a good thing to allow us to wonder? Any office-holder chosen in the last several elections is not valid, as there is no proof that the votes were counted correctly. NONE. I actually believe that most election returns are valid, as most jobs are not big or important enough to bother with a fix. But, when there is huge money in play, depending on who wins, how is it a good thing for the elections to be suspect? And I think it possible that no election has been rigged or hacked in TN. But I also think it possible that every election has been. Any TN election that can't be proven must be suspect.

I'm in favor of paper ballots placed in a big clear plexiglass box, locked until the polls close, and then dumped out on a table and counted by volunteers in front of anyone who wanted to watch. Then we wouldn't have to wonder if the TN GOP or the Dems in Memphis or the Commies in China had hacked or rigged an election. We'd know because the votes would be counted in public.

How could such fraud happen? Here's a real fiction. I am making this up, but it could happen.

Let's say I'm a regular guy election commissioner in, oh, Shelby County. Let's say the NRA needs one more guy in the State Senate to pass their Every Tennessean Must Buy a Gun Bill; which would, of course cause the gun manufacturers, and the NRA, to make a lot of money. Let's say someone comes to me and offers me enough money to pay for all 3 of my kids to go to college. All I need to do is leave the door unlocked to the voting machine storage room. What could it hurt? What am I gonna do? And if I do the "right" thing for my family, I don't know what happened when I accidentally left the door unlocked. Did somebody come in and put a virus in one machine? Hmmm...

OK, fiction over. But why would we want such scenarios to be possible in TN? And yet, there they are, every time there's an election. Who's to say some similar thing hasn't already happened? NOBODY. We simply don't know if an election has been compromised.

And that's not to even consider how a race could be compromised by plain, stupid human error. What if the programmer accidentally does a little typo when writing the code for the election. Not much, just enough for the wrong person to win. Who would ever know? NOBODY. Have there been any accidental surprise results in any election in TN lately? Who knows? NOBODY.

I am not Dem or a Pub. I grew up a Pub, but my party left me. Now, I'm wise enough to know better than to trust any party, so I look at the candidate before I "vote" here in TN.

I'll be glad to join Small "d" and debate anybody in public on this issue. Anytime. Anywhere.
----------

OK, folks, I expect this little internet exchange will give you a mighty clear clue as to why Tennessee politicians seem to be so clueless, reich-wing and tone-deaf to the Constitution these days. Please stop blaming Tennessee voters for the mess we are in. Since the TN legislature finally drowned our TN Voter Confidence Act in their bathtub two weeks ago, we are truly left with only three options:

1) Pass Rush Holt's (D-New Jersey) national Voter Confidence Act to ban unverifiable voting systems in all our states. (Sadly, that seems more unlikely than ever, since even so-called election integrity activists can't see the essential good in Rep. Holt's admittedly not perfect bill.)

2) Find a cure for Attorney General Eric Holder's reefer madness and get him focused on the real threat to the health, safety and welfare of our nation unverifiable elections and the flying monkey election thieves in Tennessee (and Wisconsin and, and ....) who take advantage of them.

3) Reprise the Battle of Athens (TN), on a much larger and more serious scale this time.

In the meantime, for any of you who have read this entire thread (thanks BTW), I would love for you to visit the Nashville Scene blog and post your own thoughts on free, fair and verifiable elections. After all, the flying monkeys have accused me of being singular in my concerns. Surely, there are six or seven of you here at DU who share my fears enough to add your voices to this debate. I certainly hope so. Here's the link:

http://www.nashvillescene.com/pitw/archives/2011/05/13/...

You have to click on "comments" to see them and you have to register (easy) to post your own comments. Please do.

(An uneasy) Peace out.

Y'all come (and join us on the barricades, if that's what it's going to take to save our democracy.) .
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-11 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. well, at least Tennessee is more liberal than Mississippi.
I not sure if that is grounds for hope or despair.
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asjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-11 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. Are you from Athens? I was there
for the "Battle of Athens". I feel certain McMinn Co. has been Republican ever since.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-11 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. That makes you a bit older than me. I reference the Battle of Athens often ...
... because it is a good example of the lengths to which democracy-loving Americans must sometimes go to save their democracy. I also reference it because I do not support corrupt, election-stealing SOBs, regardless of which party they belong to. In the case of Athens, it was a corrupt Boss Crump-affiliated local machine that got (literally) blasted out of office, and I'm glad it was.

The Battle of Athens also ushered in the "good government" movement in Tennessee that brought us Estes Kefauver and the Gores, honest and intelligent politicians who wouldn't have stood a chance if Boss Crump had still been running things, the kind of politicians (of either party) who do not stand much of a chance in Tennessee right now.

How old were you when the Battle of Athens was fought? It is truly an inspiring story. For folks here who don't know the story, here's a link to an excellent write-up in American Heritage magazine:

http://www.americanheritage.com/content/battle-athens

For how Eleanor Roosevelt viewed the importance of the Battle of Athens, see this link:

http://news.willrichardson.net/mcminn_a_warning.htm
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asjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-11 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I was 12 years old living in Philadelphia at the time.
Edited on Fri May-20-11 04:38 PM by asjr
My mother and baby sister went to the train station to get tickets back to Athens and the agent couldn't believe we were going there. The "Battle" had happened the day before and he couldn't believe we were going there. I used to remember the name of the sheriff (Democrat) who had run the machine for ages and was thrust out. He had a daughter my age but I can't remember her name either. I do think a man named Bill White wrote a book about it later. I left Athens in 1957, went back in 1964 and left again in 1966. I still have school friends there but a lot of them are dying off. It was still tense when we got there an my grandparents would not let us stray from their house. But, Athens is Republican still. When were you there?

I live in Manchester now.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-11 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I've never visited Athens, but I would like to.
I live in northwest Maury county, along the Natchez Trace, up above Columbia.

My knowledge of the Battle of Athens is from the history books. When I made a reference to it once in a blog entry (when we had temporarily prevented the TN/GOP flying monkeys from drowning the TN Voter Confidence Act), our sitting Secretary of State, "Too Tall" Tre Hargett, sent two TBI agents to my farm to investigate a "terrorist (that would be me) threat against a government official (that would be 'Too Tall").

BTW, I call Hargett "Too Tall" because, sometime in the past year, he has taken to wearing lifts in his shoes to make up for his lack of stature anywhere else.

Use the search function here to Google "Fly by night Battle of Athens" for several interesting threads on how that backfired on ole "Too Tall".
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demodonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-11 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R! And go here to see the same crapola going on w/ a Clueless Dem County Commissioner in PA
Edited on Fri May-20-11 04:50 PM by demodonkey
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-11 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Thanks, DemoD. If we never stop fighting, ...
... we will not lose.

But I expect that you feel the same way I do. I'm tired as hell of fighting these election thieves with words alone. It'd sure be nice to have a Democratic Party-affiliated US Department of Justice fighting for us too. (Hello?? Is anyone up there in DC at the USDOJ doing anything except rejecting my bid for a Presidential pardon? That y'all could get done in three days. We're approaching three years now and all we get from the USDOJ re: election integrity is crickets and, these days, cicadas.)

Also, it's tough enough fighting the reich-wing flying monkeys when we also have to fight clueless local Democrats and attention-hungry "the sky is falling!!" net-based election integrity carnival barkers who wouldn't know (much less support) a good and important, albeit incomplete, solution like the Holt bill when we bit 'em on the butt for opposing it.

They know who they are. And so do you.

Thanks again for the K&R. Hopefully another six or seven foot-soldiers for free, fair and verifiable elections in the ER forum will do likewise.
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demodonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-11 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Sadly, there is no Holt Bill right now.
Edited on Fri May-20-11 08:35 PM by demodonkey

As of now, he did not reintroduce it. I hope he still does reintroduce, but I can't blame him if he doesn't because Rush Holt sure didn't need the abuse heaped on him over the last several Congresses by some people supposedly on our side.

Talk about flying monkeys. :grr:


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Yellow Horse Donating Member (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-11 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
7. Horse kick for democracy!
No more paperless electronic voting!
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-11 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. I wonder why they all sound the same?
Edited on Fri May-20-11 08:24 PM by sabrina 1
It was the unwillingness of some Tennessee Democrats to vote for Obama, whether because of race, his leftist affiliations, his ties to Bill Ayers and 60s terrorism, Reverend Wright or whatever, not voting machines, that determined the 2008 results.


He's got all the Fox News election talking points memorized. Might be good to remind him that they lost! New talking points are needed!

Good debate, I give you credit for keeping cool. He seriously doesn't want to debate ~ :rofl: Typical Republican.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-21-11 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Good early morning, kind lady. You're right. The flying monkeys have two things in common.
They know almost nothing except what is fed to them through the borg-wire at Fox News.

And they are cowards.

I'm glad to know you feel I kept my cool. If I only could, I would reach my big farmer's fist through the internets and strangle them with it. In fact, when another FM chimed in with more last-minute insults on that PITH thread, here was the interaction:

FM: Next we'll be hearing that Republicans enrolled zombies and vampires to achieve their nefarious goals in stuffing the ballot box. And how Karl Rove personally oversaw coordinated the legions of white, rich people who lined up to put it to the poor and disadvantaged. Reading about some people's paranoid delusions is most excellent fun!


FBN: It is not paranoia to agree with 90%+ of Americans who know that, in order to protect and defend this country, we MUST have elections that are free, fair (fast, cheap) and verifiable. I stopped wondering a long time ago why TN Republicans (apparently part of the <10% who somehow have wrested control of our ship of state) do not share that belief. Three words, flying monkey: motive, means, opportunity.

It is also not paranoia for you, Gilbo, Marky-Mark, "Too Tall" Tre Hargett, Mark "Human Error" Goins and your ilk to keep looking over your shoulders. That is indeed the Arc of History closing fast behind you, with Lady Liberty riding shotgun (and She's packing some serious heat).

From where I sit, it also looks like Jesus has joined them in the back seat. He's rapidly rewriting the scriptures to replace "turn the other cheek" with "administer a serious ass-whuppin' in My Father's name." We're long overdue for that update, and it's coming in the nick of time. Thank you, Jesus!

With reich-wing, Mother-fracking, (s)elected leaders like Bill "Strange Fruit" Ketron (R-Auschwitz) and Stacy "Nacho Loonbre" Campfield (R-Stockholm) doing everything possible to destroy the Garden of Eden that Jesus' Daddy (you know, the One on His birth certificate) left all of us, that updating of the Scriptures is long (long) overdue. Thank you once again, Jesus!

And as someone who actually believes in the wisdom of the teachings of Jesus (instead of simply and slyly using His name in vain for crass, cynical and sinful political purposes), I am more than happy to take His new direction.

Any time, flying monkeys. Anywhere.
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-21-11 05:58 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. There are parts of stone craft that is about controlling spirits.
enrolled zombies and vampires to achieve their nefarious goals in stuffing the ballot box

I ignore all that stuff, and don't want to control anything, I think free will is better.

The idea of controlling spirits that goes way back also, all the way to the Bible and stories of Solomon.

Although I don't think they should be controlled especially when they are in oppression or confused, but helped to find that loving good feeling of freedom, and free will. So I think of it as friends, not like training a flying dinosaur. The metaphor in dynotopia, and avatar, and many other stories.

Note there is the idea of the reptile mind in there also, but that is mixed metaphors with science also. But the taming of the powerful spiritual things is in many stories also. I think it should be freeing not just taking something in oppression, and putting it in your oppression.

It is also in Highlander movie, and the Freddie movies. And 100 other movies.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-21-11 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Well now, that was really ...
... random. But appreciated nonetheless.

Thanks kindly for the kick.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-21-11 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Lol, I like the names you have for them.
Btw, since they are in such denial about election fraud, there was a story on here recently about several Repubs all convicted of doing just that and facing many years in jail.

I'm not sure, but I think it's probably on Brad's blog, it was I think about a week ago. Mug shots and everything.

I often wish I could be 'God' for a day, what fun it would be, speaking of reaching through the screen! Lol!

I wonder why they won't debate in RL? Great job, btw. They are a walking 'talking point' machine which only goes to show they are not capable of their own independent thoughts. And I suppose that is why they gravitate to the Fox/Limbaugh propaganda dispensers, it's just easier than thinking for themselves.

Hope all is well with you ~
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AC_Mem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-21-11 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
14. I'm in Shelby County
(Memphis) and I read every single word you wrote. I also believe that something seriously wrong happened with the 2010 elections in Memphis/Shelby County. I volunteered and saw thousands and thousands of calls we made to voters who said they would be at the polls. Everyone we contacted was voting locally and supporting the democratic ticket.

I couldn't understand what happened, and then I started reading about the allegations of voter fraud and it all made sense. Tennessee is right up there with Wisconsin for GOP corruption - why aren't we screaming it from the mountaintops?

Annette
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-21-11 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Some of us have been screaming for years. In addition to our voting machines, ...
... the reich-wing flying monkeys seem to own our media here also.

Point in fact: The Memphis Flyer used to cover this issue with some serious reporting and some not-so-serious satirical commentary. To wit:

Truth-Stranger-Than-Fiction Department: Citizen Activist Routs State Power in Battle of Ellis Farm

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

It is quite telling that this article by Jackson Baker, highly critical of "Too Tall" Tre Hargett for sending the TBI in a failed attempt to intimidate me, has now been scruubbed from the Memphis Flyer archives in the wake of my persistent blogging about the August, 2010 election theft over there.

Coincidence? Yeah, the same coincidence that resulted in an all-white Republican slate of winners in last year's Shelby county election in one of the blackest and bluest counties in the South, the birthplace of the blues.

I think we're getting close to the end of the shouting ...

Time to get really serious around here.
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onethatcares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-21-11 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
16. I'm in sunnyass Floriduh, and one of the main targets
for this years legislature was "voter fraud". In order to fix "voter fraud" early voting was shortened from 15 to 8 days, if you've changed address or name in the past year and go to the polls you will have to vote with a provisional ballot(which probably won't be counted), if you are the League of Woman Voters and you register voters, the registrations have to be sent to the Election supervisors office within 48 hours or you will be liable for a fine of 1500.00 per registration (that fine is on the League or the person that signed the voter up).

This will certainly prevent Mickey Mouse from voting in the next election and giving President Obama a second term.

I'm amazed at how blatant these pukes are and if it wasn't for reading alternative news sources we'd never know what is going on one state to the other.

Good luck.
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