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How do you negotiate with someone who refuses to compromise?

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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 03:06 PM
Original message
How do you negotiate with someone who refuses to compromise?
The Democrats are presently "negotiating" with the Republicans over the debt limit. Republicans are asking for trillions of dollars in cuts in programs that the people use and need but they refuse to raise taxes one penny, even on the big oil companies. They refuse to do away with the tax subsidies that the oil companies are receiving, calling it "tax increases". They are set in stone and are willing to gamble with the economy of this nation and the world economy.

The Democrats have two options: they can surrender or they can fight back. What happens if they fight back? What happens if they surrender?

The Republicans' wet dream is to destroy Medicare and all the programs of the New Deal, including Social Security. It is so close they can smell it. They have the Democrats over the barrel and are willing to let the country go to hell if that is what it takes.

Never mind that most of the spending was done by the Republicans. They intentionally ran up the debt to the point that it is no longer serviceable. If they refuse to raise taxes, then the only option is to cut vital programs or to default on the debt. Your move, Democrats.
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RandySF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. The Washington MSM definition of negotiation is
to give the Republicans what they want.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I think it's not even the Washington MSM definition, I think it's the Washington definition.
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. That's the Republican definition of compromise.
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vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. Not just the MSM...
Apparently most dems in any positions of power have that definition as well.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. You give them what they want, screw over your base, and take lobbyists' money.
Duh.

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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. You don't, you can't. The only thing to do is know where the line is
and don't cross it.
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Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. You can but what is needed goes against most of our ethics
You need a baseball bat or something heavy and you have to physically hurt then, because if repukes love anything more then money, its themselves and they will do anything to protect themselves.
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
5. fifth element-negotiation
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. If the RAPEpuglicans want to turn their donors T bills and cash assets into TP the Democrats should
clearly state that it is an insane policy and they will not support it.
If they want to cut something cut the Military,
If they are worried about the deficit raise taxes or STFU.
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Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
7. Move further away from them. n/t
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
9. You kick him off the panel
and concentrate on the reasonable people.
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Drew Richards Donating Member (507 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
10. Well if you are Dick Cheney
You shoot them in the face and claim it was an accident... :)

Not sure if we can get away with that too though :(
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. Sock in the face. (n/t)
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poli_ticks Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
13. Easy.
Call them on their BS. Tell them either pass tax raises on the super-rich, or shut down the government.

Then go to the voters and tell them it's all the Republicans' fault for refusing to pass tax raises on the super-rich. The tax cuts for the rich were extremely unpopular if you'll recall.

If the economy grinds to a halt, and everything goes completely to pot, and the people are out in the streets by the millions, who do you think wins?

Not the Plutocrats. Not the American Ruling Class.

So call them on the BS and say "make our day, punks."
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I think that would be the first step in negotiations...
Win the PR battle.

They are defending millionaires and billionaires at the expense of everyone else. They are threatening our economy and the world economy. We refuse to ask those at the bottom to sacrifice while the Republicans give more and more to those that do not need it.

This is a battle to the death. The Bush taxcuts are the final reward for the Republicans. They do not want them to expire.
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poli_ticks Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Yes, there's a lot of PR.
Some of it is aimed at bamboozling the Democratic party base. By making it seem like there is a *lot* of popular opposition to things like tax increases for the rich. This is simply untrue.

People are massively p*ssed at the Banks and Wall Street. You could hang bankers from lamp posts and people would react not much differently than to the news of OBL's demise.

But democrats want you to believe there are a lot of conservative voters who oppose tax increases for the rich because that way they get to do the bidding of the people who fund their campaigns (the super rich) while still retaining the votes of the democratic party base (who will think it's the fault of Republican voters, when really it's simply that Democrats too want campaign $$$ from the super rich).

Oh and battle to the death is about right. The economy is kaput simply because the rich are hogging too much of the money. The way the whole system works is, the rich (investor class) invests $$$ in China to build factory capacity, Chinese labor produces goods in said factory, said goods are shipped here to the US where they are bought by American consumers, returning a profit to the investor class. Where in this chain have things broken down? The rich still have plenty of money ("liquidity", Wall Street bonuses), we have factory capacity sitting idle here in the US, plenty of Chinese are still desperate to work. So: the American consumer - whose jobs have been outsourced to India and China, whose bargaining power has been crushed by the destruction of unions and by labor arbitrage (illegal immigrants labor and globalization), who was tricked into getting deep into debt by the housing bubble (caused by... Wall street bankers!). So the American consumer has seen his/her wages stagnate, and has reached (and gone beyond) debt saturation. And we've just tossed about 10 million of them out of the ranks of the gainfully employed. Is it any wonder the result is he/she can't consume and the whole economy has basically ground to a halt?

And making the rich richer will simply make things worse. So this is in fact a fight to the death, otherwise the whole system collapses. And the Democratic party for the most part is not on our side. They're on the side of their major donors, not the people who vote for them.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. There is a lot of merit to what you say, however...
if the Democrats do not stand up, this country is screwn.
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poli_ticks Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. I'm thinking if we don't stand up, the country is screwed.
The act of voting Democrats in has become something akin to a delegation of responsibility. Now that we have the "right people" in office, we can go back to our daily lives.

But are they the "right people" really? Or are they people who are in cahoots with the super-rich, and only pretend to be working for our interests?

So we need to get much, much better at picking the "right people", and start sending much more radical and committed leftists into Washington.

Or we need to take to the streets a la Wisconsin, Egypt, Greece.
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
16. (1)You give 90% BEFORE you start (2)the other 10% "at the table"(3) You lable you BASE "inflexible"
Edited on Wed May-11-11 04:11 PM by Faryn Balyncd



(4) You look around for the next American democratic value to sacrifice.












:hi:



:kick:





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AlabamaLibrul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
17. I don't know, but this is why we are "destined to fail" nt
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
18. You don't unless you're stupid (or corrupt)
They're the enemy.

You fight them.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
20. Somebody has to stand up to these thugs.
If they want the stock market to crash and interest rates to go up, let them hold course. We have offered ways to cut this deficit and they have refused. They want to continue the same destructive path they have been on for 10 years and only a fool would agree with them. Let them tell their friends on Wall Street that they are going to screw them big time. It's time to wash our hands of this mess. It is now up to the Republicans. Stop playing their game.
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