Is child support about supporting a child or about vengeance?

[blueamy66]

Once the "child" turns 18, shouldn't child support cease, even if the one ordered to pay support owes some back child support?

I mean...is it about supporting the child...buying shoes and food and clothes or is it about getting back at the non-custodial parent?

[PeaceNikki]

1. Do you think the expense of kids magically goes away on their 18th birthday?

Also, shouldn't the party who paid all of the expenses for the first 18 be reimbursed for some that the other party was legally obligated to pay? In your scenario, all an owing parent would have to do is successfully ditch it until then.

[kiva]

2. I think that parents of 18+ year old students should pay child support

just as soon as all non-divorced parents are required to send their children through college or pay support to their children.

[etherealtruth]

101. Its not about child support accruing after the child reaches 18

Its about support that was owed and not paid when the child was a minor. If one decides to evade their obligations .... they don't just go away when the child reaches 18.

It is a debt accrued and owed. Most try to pay debts owed.

[kiva]

116. Ah, thank you - I hadn't been following this and didn't

realize this was about unpaid child support. Yes, that money should be paid; not to do so would be, as you say, evading their obligations.

[alphafemale]

249. Non divorced parents are not REQUIRED to pay their kids way through college.

What on earth gave you that idea?

It might be something that many people do, but it's certainly not a legal requirement.

[Warren DeMontague]

266. Oh, The Huge Manatee!!!

I get the feeling this thread has really brought out the "why can't he just start OVER??" 2nd wife brigade.

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

[alphafemale]

268. There's a difference between a moral obligation or the "Right Thing"

And a legal obligation.

It's just interesting that non-custodial parents are legally bound to pay for their child's college education when non-divorced parents are not.

Or being mandated to buy health insurance when non-divorced parents are not. No argument as to whether it is obvious.

Back child-support would be something else entirely, though. That's a binding debt anyway you look at it.

[ladywnch]

288. what state do you live in where parents are legally bound to pay for their

kids college? I went to school on grants and loans....like most of the kids I was in school with. I guess my nephews were just born unlucky since they will both be graduating with over 80K worth of college loans that THEY THEMSELVES are responsible for....legally.

Majority of kids go to college without parental financial support....and their parents are not in prison or in court because of it.

And as for health insurance .....right now......no one is mandated to buy health insurance for kids.....which is why there are approx. several million kids without health insurance in this country and no parents, divorced or not, are in jail, fined or anything else...except sorry they can't give their kids health insurance. Obama's 'mandate' doesn't take effect till 2014 I believe. And when the mandate does go into effect, divorced parents would be held accountable the same as intact families.

[raccoon]

285. "all non-divorced parents are required to send their children through college?" Since when?

AFAIK, non-divorced parents are not required to pay for the kids' college even if the parents are billionaires.

If some law has been changed regarding that, enlighten me.

[Brickbat]

3. If one "owes," one should pay.

Right?

[uppityperson]

4. Child support is about financially supporting your child.

If you chose to not do this and are in arrears, you still owe the money. Otherwise it's like using a credit card for a vacation and then saying "well, my vacation is over so I don't owe the money".

Yes, it is about helping financially support your child.

[SharonAnn]

62. Unfortunately, for some non-custodial parents, it's a vengeance thing,.

I see it all too often.

Sometimes they'll even say things like "I'll get even with X! I'm not paying the child support, ever."

[uppityperson]

63. I have seen that also. "the custodial parent is living the high life so I'll get even by not paying

the pitiful amount I'm obligated to!" "I won't get a Real job, only work under the table so I won't have to pay that nasty parent any money".

I've seen it in the world and even, oddly, here.

[lunatica]

5. Do you think there should be a statute of limitations on parenting?

Since when is being responsible for your child's life and education a vengeance thing?

[bobbolink]

98. very well said. Its a lifetime responsibility.

This whole idea is very sad. The kids are lost in all of this.

[blueamy66]

112. Yes, I do.

And our government does as well. 18

[dana_b]

136. yes, because the govt. is always right and all bills stop at 18

get real.

[uppityperson]

148. You want to duck paying child support then when YOUR child reaches 18 have the debt canceled?

hahahahahahaha

[lunatica]

216. So the hell with your kid after 18 because the government says you can move on?

What about the 18 year old? Does that child have a right to an education or clothes or food? Really?

[uppityperson]

218. Reading through, it is her step-child, her husband's child, husb is the non-custodial parent

or at least fiance is, per another post. And she want the amount owed in arrears, that he didn't pay before his child was 18, she wants that amount to be canceled since he is now 18.

Rather like cancelling a credit card payment when the vacation you took is over.

[Gman]

6. To be very sure, it is about supporting the child

when you have to pay, and the spouse pushes hard for it, it may be perceived as vengeance. But it's called supporting your kid.

[boppers]

7. It's about spreading the costs.

If the costs are unfairly spread, then a child turning 18 does not relieve the debt owed for past costs which were not being spread.

[blogslut]

8. An order to pay back support ends when

...the designated amount is paid in full.

If you still owe on the debt, you still owe on the debt. It's not difficult to understand.

[shanti]

111. exactly

and if one owe's child support to the county, you can be damn sure they WILL get their money if they can, and paychecks will be garnished. you can't write off child support in bankruptcy.

my ex owes almost 100 grand (including interest), but there's little chance the county will see any as he's on disability now. i don't think they can touch that (?)






men, pay your child support! a good woman will not respect you if you don't.

[uppityperson]

9. What do YOU think? Please answer your questions. Thank you. nt

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PeaceNikki]

10. Turn it around: Is avoiding your child-support payments about getting back at the custodial parent?

Or....

?

[Liquorice]

21. Yes, a lot of times it is about getting even with the custodial parent by

financially abandoning the child. Very sad.

[PeaceNikki]

24. Yup.

Been there.

[Taitertots]

236. Or... not being stuck with a giant financial burden

Not having to pay to subsidize someone else's lifestyle for the choices THEY make.

[uppityperson]

239. Child support is about financially supporting your child. The person who wanted the divorce, or brok

broke it up, even if they get custody, they should not get child support for their children because they chose to get divorced? Is this that you are saying? Trying to clarify what you mean. Thank you.

[Taitertots]

242. Your hypothetical situation doesn't contain enough information

Do the both parents want custody? If yes, support should only be given in the event that one parent can't care for the child half the time but still wants access should have to pay.
Does one want custody but not the other? If yes, the one who wants full custody should bear the full burden of their choice.
Do neither want custody? If yes, the child should be put up for adoption.

[uppityperson]

243. Child support is about financially supporting your child whether you have custody or not.

Child custody is supposed to be about giving your child the best chance at a decent life, best living situation.

Part of being a parent is being financially supportive whether or not you have custody.

[Taitertots]

246. That doesn't address why one party should pay for the choices of another

One party is making a lifestyle choice and forcing the financial burden of said choice onto the other party. Or is choice regarding parenthood something that is exclusively reserved for women.

[msanthrope]

259. Because the question of 'choice' is irrelevant.

In this thread you've conflated two distinct areas of family law--support and visitation.

Further, you make a mistake in asuming that the law is interested in the choices of the parents, as opposed to the perogatives of the child, in either area.

[uppityperson]

260. That is because choice here is irrelevant. The courts are looking out for the best interests of the

child, not the parents. And having some financial support by both parents is in the best interest of the child.

"One party is making a lifestyle choice and forcing the financial burden of said choice onto the other party." True. The non-custodial parent is making a choice of how much they earn and if they chose to not work, or work under the table, then they are forcing the financial burden onto the custodial parent.

"Or is choice regarding parenthood something that is exclusively reserved for women." What? Are you now adding in whether or not a woman gets an abortion or not? If she doesn't then she is solely responsible for the child she and he made? Fail.

[Zanzoobar]

11. What if the custodial parent is in debt because of the deadbeat?

Pay up.

Even if the custodian is not in debt, that person should be made whole, according to law.

[blueamy66]

40. What is the custodial parent is NOT in debt, yet living the high life

and putting the parent that is forced to pay child support into debt and make them live in a hole in the wall apt just so he/she can feed themselves?

When does it stop?

karma baby, karma

[uppityperson]

57. You feel you should have no financial obligation to support your child financially if the other pare

parent is making more than you? Good grief.

[blueamy66]

106. Yes, Exactly.

Did you think about it?

[Donnachaidh]

110. it's a court order fer chrissakes

And if child support is overdue -- the one owing the money is a deadbeat regardless of the situation. It's not up to YOU to make value judgements on family matters that have been worked out through the legal system.

As a matter of fact, your *advice* may well put the parent in deeper shit -- the state that the child lives in may go after them with guns a-blazing.

[uppityperson]

134. That is wrong. You are not removed from your obligations to your child simply because someone else

makes more. And you are not removed from prior debts either. Have you tried that with your landlord? Run up months worth of rent without paying it, then move and say "oh I don't live there anymore, someone else is and paying rent so my past debt should be absolved. And the landlord makes more money than I do anyway."

Fail, big time. You are making yourself look like something pretty nasty and pathetic.

[uppityperson]

58. dupe

[Zanzoobar]

61. As I said

The custodial parent should be made whole, according to law.

[Zanzoobar]

64. And I will also post an adage my dear mum told me long before I was able to understand it.

If you want justice, go to a hooker. If you want to get fucked, go to court.

[blogslut]

65. I'm pretty sure your child can have his/her payments

...turned over to his/her name, once he/she turns 18. I could be wrong.

I'm sorry your financial situation is difficult but that situation doesn't clear the debt incurred because of arrears.

[uppityperson]

68. "travel, gambling, cooking, reading" are your interests, yet you live in a hole in the wall apt?

And you blame it on being in arrears for not paying child support?
Seriously?

"karma baby, karma"

[stanwyck]

75. I don't get you at all. You have a child - and you don't

think you have the obligation to support that child?

[uppityperson]

76. Sounds like non-custodial parent having a vengeance. eom

[MineralMan]

96. It doesn't matter. The parents of a child have a responsibility

to support that child. It's easy enough not to breed. If you breed, you must feed.

[tammywammy]

125. I would think that karma would be the fact you live in a hole in the wall

while trying to get out of paying your financial child support obligations.

[unapatriciated]

196. My ex used to complain the same as you

funny how he was able to retire early while I will have to work until I'm 70 (he lives in a camper trailer by choice and travels the country). Yes we lived in a nice house while he lived in an apartment. But I wouldn't call it living the high life. I struggled too in order to keep our children in the same neighborhood and schools so as not to disrupt their lives any more than needed.
He didn't pay for years and yes I did make him pay the arrears (50,000). Why should I not be able to save because he perceived I didn't need the money at the time? Turned out our youngest child became very ill (diagnosed with severe dermatomyositis) in his teens and that back child support was used to pay some of his medical bills.

[cali]

12. no, people who owe back child support should pay up and the money should

be used for just that- child support.

[Warren DeMontague]

13. You should pay what you fucking owe.

What a ridiculous question.

[msanthrope]

14. It's about supporting the child, so pay up. n/t

[LostInAnomie]

15. In theory, it's about supporting the child.

Far too often, in practice, it's about hammering the non-custodial parent.

[Hannah Bell]

16. it's about the security state.

[uppityperson]

17. What do you mean? I don't understand your usage of these words/term. Thanks.

[Hannah Bell]

25. it's about the continual & increasing surveillance & control of the poor &

working class.

[uppityperson]

28. Child support is about watching/controlling the poor & working class? What? What do you mean

Pretend I don't understand, which I don't. HOW is making parents be responsible for financially supporting their child "the continual & increasing surveillance & control of the poor & working class"?

Do rich people not have to pay child support? What does "the continual & increasing surveillance & control of the poor & working class" have to with mandated financial responsibility for your child?

Please clarify as what you write so far is mystifying. Thank you.

[azurnoir]

33. a good deal of the owed child support you hear about is owed not the child

but to the state welfare department, as I said below my state recoups at least 1/3 of of the money it pays out in this manner, the child oe custodial parent gets the welfare the state gets it back from the noncustodial parent and if the custodial parent does not co-operate with the state in locating and collecting the money they lose the welfare payments

[uppityperson]

42. Which makes sense to me. I don't see it as controlling the poor/working class though

thanks for the explanation

[Warren DeMontague]

45. No it's not. It's about people supporting their own children.

Good grief.

[Hannah Bell]

95. that's a good thing, but when in fact the social situation = people in fact *cannot*

take care of their own children, it's about surveillance & suppression of the poor & the working class.

[uppityperson]

100. How is it "about surveillance & suppression of the poor & the working class"? I already asked you

but you haven't answered except to repeat that statement. HOW is it "about surveillance & suppression of the poor & the working class"? Serious question Hannah

[Hannah Bell]

102. the major consequence of the policy has not been to better provide for the

majority of children affected, but to further criminalize the poor & working class.

& in a large percent of cases, for reasons largely outside their control.

[uppityperson]

133. I think you are saying that collecting child support criminalizes people. Is this right?

Do you mean they have "reasons largely outside their control" for not paying child support?

While some do, many more do not.

The minimum in many places for child support is $50/month.

You also seem to be saying that child support does not better provide for someone's child.

Is this right?

[Hannah Bell]

154. uh, no. i think you're boring me.

[uppityperson]

155. Excuse me for trying to clarify. It is too bad that you find asking for clarification so boring.

Makes it difficult to communicate. Now it is your turn to post a 1 liner either insulting me or repeating something you wrote earlier that is unclear.

[Hannah Bell]

194. i'm sorry if you're sincere. to me your questions read as disingenuous.

[uppityperson]

217. I know we've gone round a few times in the past but yes, I'm trying to figure out what you mean here

[Skidmore]

240. What a crock.

Are you or have you ever been a parent, custodial or non-custodial? There are some things in this world that do not quite fit in neat little boxes labeled with political terminology and the responsibilities of parenting is one of those issues. Has nothing to do with the state and a lot to do with a life you bring into the world.

Progressive sentiment from you? Not much, I think.

[Warren DeMontague]

19. Child support is 'about the security state'?

what does that even MEAN? :shrug:

[msanthrope]

56. I suspect there's a "Marxist Random Quote Generator"

out there.

It's not nearly as funny as the Charlie Sheen or Big Lebowski ones.

[Hannah Bell]

97. is that anything like your pointed red-baiting generator? or your personal personal attack

generator?

[msanthrope]

120. Who says I wasn't talking about Groucho and Chico?

Harpo, not so much on the quotes.

Is there no room for humor, comrade??

[JVS]

117. It means that it's awfully convenient for authorities to put people in...

what amounts to a type of probation without them actually having committed any crime.

[Warren DeMontague]

188. If convenience is the issue, people shouldn't have kids they're not willing to support.

I'm sorry, but the convenience of the parent who wants to not pay for their child is not the top concern, here.

[JVS]

192. You asked what that means. Now you seem to ignore it and ramble about people having kids they ...

can't afford.


Like I said, it is convenient for the authorities to make having a kid, a non-crime, into something they can use to keep tabs on you and generally use to cause you trouble. That's what Hannah Bell was talking about.

[Warren DeMontague]

193. Having a kid isn't a crime. Refusing to pay court-ordered support for one is.

It's ridiculous to imagine that it's some sort of grand conspiracy to keep track of people. It's about making sure people pay for their kids.

[Arkansas Granny]

207. If a person is not making court ordered child support payments, it is a crime.

It is the same as not complying with any other court order an individual may have against them.

[uppityperson]

222. Not complying with a court order IS a crime. Having your wages garnished for non-payment of

court ordered child support is the result of that crime.

[Liquorice]

18. The custodial parent still had to buy food, clothing, etc., etc., while

the deadbeat parent was avoiding paying. So the custodial parent should still receive reimbursement for back child support. Obviously.

[ZombieHorde]

31. I agree. nt

[blueamy66]

107. How about if the custodial parent didn't pay a thing for food, clothing, etc.?

They should still be reimbursed for not paying anything?

It's about VENGEANCE!

[Donnachaidh]

113. seems custodial parent re-married and now the ex is pissed off about it

looks like the non-custodial parent wants revenge :shrug:

[JVS]

119. Then demand custody and make them pay you.

[Liquorice]

126. Does the custodial parent live in fantasy land where raising kids is free? nt

[JVS]

130. It sounds like the custodial parent found a new spouse with wealth.

[Liquorice]

131. The custodial parent is still paying for the kid to be fed and clothed, etc.,

regardless of their marital or financial situation. Just because you somehow get wealthy, it doesn't mean you don't pay for your kid anymore.

[WolverineDG]

203. New spouse has no duty to support someone else's kids nt

[tammywammy]

127. How could a custodial parent get out of paying for any of that?

Because they remarried? Even if the new spouse is picking up the tab, you should be THANKFUL that the child was adequately provided for while you decided to slack off on your support.

[uppityperson]

137. The custodial parent hasn't had to pay anything? How in world does that work?

True, it does sound like vengeance, from you.

[mzteris]

174. so the child is starved to death

and running around naked?

really?

WTF do you think bought them their food and put a roof over their head and clothes on their back and shoes on their feet and takes them to school and helps with their homework and hold their head when they throw up and washes their clothes and checks on them in the middle of the night and checks their homework and every other gd thing that a child needs 24 freaking 7 - 365, eh?

You think whatever measly amount of childsupport your supposed to be paying is all the child needs? It's not even half. Who pays for the water they use and the electricity? The gas in the car to drive them places. Their pencils and socks and other things you never ever have even thought about.

IT COSTS MONEY to clothe, feed, shelter, entertain, educate, and nurture a child. Way more than whatever pittance you SHOULD be paying, but obviously aren't. The ONLY PERSON YOU ARE PUNISHING IS THE KID AND THEY WILL HATE YOU FOR IT WHEN THEY GROW UP AND REALIZE WHAT A COMPLETE JERK YOU"VE BEEN.

Grow the f up and accept your responsibilities.

[Liquorice]

186. This person is apparently the new partner of a man who owes child

support. She doesn't want him to pay for his kid and she is enraged that he has to do so. She is fighting it tooth and nail. I wonder who she wants the money to go to? I'm guessing she would like it for herself.

[mzteris]

212. she better do herself a favor

and never have kids with the deadbeat.

[ejpoeta]

264. well the kid is being clothed and fed and provided with a roof over their head.

if the custodial parent has had to ask for the help of welfare and the state is paying for food or shelter or anytihng for that child, then certainly the other parent should have to help pay that. if the custodial parent is not on welfare, then they must be providing for that child or they wouldn't have them. true there are instances where kids are used as pawns. and it sounds a lot like the non custodial parent is using child support as a form of vengeance because they don't give a crap about their kid.... only about themselves and their bruised ego.

[Arkansas Granny]

114. While my ex was paying a certain percentage of his wages for child support,

I was spending nearly 100% of mine to provide food, shelter, clothing, day care, medical expenses, school expenses, etc. It would have cost him much more than he was paying in child support if he had been the custodial parent.

[etherealtruth]

118. An experience shared by many of us

.... but, you know what ... its worth knowing you have given your children the absolute best you could.

[uppityperson]

138. Indeed. And many ex's then rant if custodial parent shows up with new socks. "How DARE

they spend "my" money on themselves" says the non-custodial deadbeat vengeancful parent.

[emilyg]

177. Absolutely.

[Wounded Bear]

20. Yes.......nt

;)

[CC]

22. Yes child support should go to

supporting the child though most of the time the actual support payments don't come close to covering half of the expenses. Depending on the court order child support should stop when a child is 18, 21 or in the case of the severely disabled for life. If college is attended each parent should pay half and that should also be part of the court order.

As for back support from a parent, it should be paid no matter how long afterward. I wish they would start charging interest on back support as the custodial parent often has to try to find a way to make up the missed support. Even working a 2nd job cost more when you are having to pay for day care and nothing replaces the lost time.


BTW I added the disabled because I know of a child that is now an adult and support is paid to help with the care etc. Lucky for that adult child neither parent has minded, resented or faulted the need for continuing support and have kept the best interest of said adult child first.

[WolverineDG]

23. So deadbeats should be able to let someone else pay to raise/feed their kids

No, especially if the custodial parent had to go on TANF & food stamps, which are paid for by taxpayers.

dg

[CreekDog]

26. what an ignorant post

:banghead:

[southernyankeebelle]

27. When you play the game of mommie and daddie you got to pay the fiddler.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

29. lol

[sudopod]

32. +lolz nt

[demmiblue]

35. ++lulz n/t

[azurnoir]

30. that depends is the 'child' fully independant at 18 has the child graduated high school?

in most cases not, even most state foster child programs extended support until the kid has graduated high school

however sometimes there can be a 3rd player involved too that being state welfare department, in my state Mn 1/3 of all monies paid out are recouped in this manner, the custodial parent gets the welfare and medical support but the non custodial parent must repay the state no matter how long that takes

[pnwmom]

36. Why should owing back support have anything to do with the child

turning 18? If it's owed, it's owed.

[azurnoir]

82. in the cases I am talking about it is the state not the parent or child that is

receiving the payments

[blueamy66]

44. No thrid player involved.

Adult is now 19 and going to university, 2 hours away from home, on a full scholarship.

So, I ask again, is is about CHILD SUPPORT OR VENGEANCE???????

[La Lioness Priyanka]

46. its not vengeance to want money that is owed to you. nt

[blueamy66]

104. Owed for what?

When the custodial parent is a millionaire and the child support paying parent is just scraping by...I call that a slap in the face and a VENGEANCE.

[uppityperson]

139. Withholding legally mandated child support over envy that the custodial parent is able to

provide for your children is pathetic.

[uppityperson]

151. Scarping by on $100,000 a yr? THAT is "scraping by"? Only $100,000/yr and barely scraping by

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=59788&mesg_id=60197

[Warren DeMontague]

47. I don't know. Was it about child support or vengeance when the hypothetical deadbeat parent

was making the custodial parent pay all the bills?

Ever hear of paying what is owed? If a loan goes for more than a year, should the party that made the loan just say 'fuck it, I don't need to be paid back- I'm not interested in vengeance'?

Don't be absurd.

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JVS]

122. Ok. If that's how it is, just keep telling them to fuck off and don't pay them.

[uppityperson]

141. Why did you get that far in arrears? How many months, yrs did you not pay?

[PeaceNikki]

48. Well, it sounds like you are dealing with your own situation specific to you.

And that you came here looking for validation for feeling screwed. We aren't privy to all of the details, but generally, it's about the child and the obligation should be shared.

Obviously there are exceptions to every rule, assholes and abusers on both sides of this situation. Let it be known that yours certainly does not represent the situation of any people I know.

[uppityperson]

52. Paying back child support you owe isn't "vengeance" any more than paying any other debt is

Good grief.

If you have concerns about paying child support now, to a college student, go to court and ask for a change. If you try to get out of what is owed for non-payments in the past, that is another matter.

Have you ever tried that with any other bill? Not paying and saying "oh, that was electricity I used in the PAST and I shouldn't have to pay this now"?

[etherealtruth]

73. This is sad ....

Your poor child. You have no clue how much supporting a child away at college actually costs... even with a full scholarship.

This is about a debt owed, nothing more. Responsible people make every effort to pay debts owed.

[azurnoir]

84. That would depend on the financial status of both the parent and child

is the parent paying for collage? is the child?

[Gormy Cuss]

163. Easy. It's ABOUT CHILD SUPPORT . n/t

[WinkyDink]

34. Is there a reason you're phrasing this as "either-or"?

[Uben]

38. It's supporting your family

I've been paying support for 16 yrs, $650/mo. My last payment will be June 1st, but I will continue to help pay for medical bills and dental expenses for a while. It's MY kid! I will pay for her college if she chooses to attend one.

My ex and my current wife get along great. Too great sometimes! We are just one big extended family doing what is right for our kids. I have the resources to give them a lot, but I will not spoil them. They will be taken care of when I'm gone, but until then, they gotta get a job and work.

My child support did not end at 18. It goes on till she graduates high-school, which was about 6 months longer. I've never missed a payment in 16 yrs. That's not easy.

[pnwmom]

39. If you owe back child support, that debt doesn't go away

merely because the child turns 18.

And whether or not you owe continuing support after 18 depends on the individual family. Parents of means can be ordered to pay for college expenses, for example. The child isn't supposed to be punished because the parents are divorced.

[blueamy66]

41. Damn, guess I touched a nerve

:-)

[Warren DeMontague]

49. Your own, perhaps?

:shrug:

[blueamy66]

105. Naw....not mine...my nerves are shot.

But counting the responses, yeah, I touched a nerve or two.

Thank goodness for liberal woman in the year 2011.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

51. you touched my sense of justice nerve & my idiotic question of the day nerve. nt

[Name removed]

109. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

53. What would ever make you think DUers feel paying your debts is a good thing?

:eyes:

[Forkboy]

67. Stupid things do that on DU.

[TBF]

209. Yes I'm sure you're very proud of yourself.

And your concern for children is touching.

:thumbsdown:

[notadmblnd]

43. Who do you think was paying for the shoes, clothes and housing

while you were getting behind? The vengeful ex, no? Are you saying that you don't think you should have to pay the ex back for stepping in and making sure your kids were provided for when you couldn't/wouldn't?

[CreekDog]

59. Well the Ex was giving stuff to the kids out of spite

Pity the dad couldn't combine generosity and spitefulness in a way that something useful is done for children in the process.

pity.

[notadmblnd]

69. No, what the real pity is.. is that these two people brought children into this world

without really being committed to each other. Then, used their children to continue hurting and building resentment for each other after they decide to quit the relationship.

Not only is it a pity, it was very selfish of both of them.

[Curmudgeoness]

50. With your premise that even back support should end

when the child turns 18, I can see millions of people who owe child support just holding out until the child turns 18 and they are "free" from any responsibility. That's a great idea.

[Codeine]

54. Of course it's about vengeance.

It has the added benefit of supporting the child, but the real motive is entirely, completely, and utterly about hurting the spouse.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

55. why is it hurtful to help with expenses associated with your child?

[uppityperson]

60. How is it hurtful to be responsible for financially helping support your child?

[CreekDog]

184. it's hurtful to the OP's gambling hobby

:shrug:

(hey, it's in her profile!)

[Forkboy]

66. Oy vey.

:eyes:

[CreekDog]

70. Wow, you managed to outdo the OP

quite a feat. :eyes:

[M0rpheus]

144. Sometimes, it is ABSOLUTELY about both.

In my own story, when my cheating ex and I broke up, I left her all the comfort that I could afford.

We were living in a family building, MY family's building. I left when it became too much for me to bear. I made sure that she and my daughter were taken care of and safe, and continued to pay my share of the rent, even though I didn't live there any longer.

Once she burned that bridge, with my family and moved on to some other place, I gave her money regularly and paid half of the daycare bill and more, because she would often "forget". I'd go to pay the bill and they'd tell me she hadn't paid the previous week. I didn't have a choice not to pay because she couldn't come back Monday, if I didn't pay today.

I got married to a woman with 2 daughters of her own, so we took care of all their after school needs, all three of them, so her (my daughter's) mother would have time to go to school. Mind you, I'm doing all this on $10/hour and help from my new, and VERY understanding wife.

Once got my first job with a real salary, the first thing she did was file for child support.
I was surprised at the hearing when the mediator stated that they were going for child support back to day one, her date of birth. I left when my daughter was 6! After proving that false and, providing all my checks, and receipts for the rent, daycare and after school care I was providing, I was told that those were "gifts", and as such did not count as far as their support calculations were concerned. After much fighting the "determined" that I was $36,000 in arrears and $210 per check would about cover it with an additional $10 per check towards the arrears.

By the time the support order was in place, I had just been laid off (15 days after 9/11). They garnished my unemployment check. that $210+10 basically killing the check I was using to help pay bills for my family.
I was unemployed for a whole year and a half. When the unemployment benefits ran out, my options were very limited. The arrearage would stack up and I'd get lovely notices in the mail and random phone calls from Child support enforcement threatening me with bad more debt (I was already screwed, it didn't really matter). Once I found a new job, I waited 2 months before I notified them, in order to take care of some of the debt that was racked up while I was out of work. In order to make ends meet, I didn't take a single benefit from my company. no healthcare, no 401K, because I needed every dollar, to stay afloat.

When that job laid me off, I was out of work again for several months. Unemployment just barely made it to the beginning of the new job. And I have had my wages garnished (increased to $300 per paycheck), until april of last year. Just a year after my daughter turned 18. However, my obligation ended, that December. It turns out that, somewhere in there the state of Illinois no longer took care of child support enforcement orders, but in order to stop the garnishment, I needed an order from the state. It took me 3 months to find some wonderful woman who worked for the state and didn't have a thing to do with child support, to help me out. She found a way to get an order to my payroll department to stop the withholding.

After all was said and done, I have now overpaid by a good $3800. When asked how I could get my money back, child support says, "we just send it to the custodial parent. You'll have to get it from her". When I contact my ex about it, she says "I'm not giving you anything, you shouldn't have sent it". When I contact an attorney, he says "it'll cost you more than the $3800 to get it back if she fights it. You should probably just take it as a loss and move on".

So, I'm finally done after the last "F*ck you" from child support and my ex. My daughter no longer lives with her mother, and calls me regularly. She just turned 20 this April.

Over time, I have learned from my daughter, that her mother used to argue with me, via text message and show her the texts to prove that I'm just no good. I also found out that she was not living with her mother for much of the last couple of years before she turned 18, but the money was sent anyway.

I haven't posted here in quite some time but, but considering my own story, I get a little pissy about talk of "deadbeats" and back child support. In threads like this it always seems so binary: 1=paying, 0=deadbeat. For some reason, people seem to think that there is no middle ground in these situations.

In response to the OP: if you owe child support you SHOULD pay the debt until it's done, in general. I'm also here to confirm that it ABSOLUTELY can be and will be used as a weapon by some, as well.

[KurtNYC]

289. I'm not into the binary thing

I'm a big believer that most people are walking around with way more grief and hardship than they let on. The truth is shades of grey and if it takes to long to sort through those then some aren't up for the journey. Easier to project from our own situations and judge.

btw, Possibly you could go to small claims and sue for the limit there.

[CelticThunder]

71. Stop making it about YOU. It's about supporting a child YOU share responsibility for creating.

How would your child feel to read this?

Probably wouldn't be surprised, I'll bet.

[uppityperson]

72. +1000

[dana_b]

140. thank you!! perfectly stated. n/t

[WorseBeforeBetter]

179. He's too busy bangin' the 27-year-old "cougar" to be reading this.

I believe the OP is the soon-to-be wicked stepmother, who, with the kid's dad, pull in $100K/per year. I think those are the players, but if not, enh. Sounds like some serious money mismanagement if one is reduced to a hole-in-the-wall apartment with the inability to buy a fucking refrigerator.

[stanwyck]

74. I can't imagine there is any parent who really thinks

that a child doesn't need support after 18. There's college or trade school - pretty tough without a parent's help. In today's economy, how would an 18 yr. old support him/herself and continue an education? More parents today are subsidizing their adult children. We can argue how much is too much. But the idea that child support should cease at 18 seems unfair to the custodial parent (who will undoubtedly be helping the adult child financially) and, of course, the child. If people don't want to support their children, they shouldn't have them.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

77. The child support system is pretty FUBAR

The simple answer is that the debt must be paid. However, there are any number of mitigating circumstances that should be part of the decision process, either in the immediate or later, but are often ignored.

[Maru Kitteh]

78. If only child support could turn whiny, selfish little pouters into real men.

Now that would be awesome.

[Codeine]

79. It's not always men who pay child support.

And not every deadbeat is a dad.

[stevenleser]

81. In fact, women are worse at paying court ordered child support. n/t

[uppityperson]

167. Link? I see you posted downthread "If". Link to those stats please. thanks.

[Maru Kitteh]

85. True. In this case it is. Feel free to interchange "adult" with "man." The sentiment is still

applicable. I have indeed seen both.

[stevenleser]

94. OK, but think about this. If only 54% or so of men and 45% of women ordered to pay are current...

at what point do you say to yourself, is it a possibility that there is something wrong with the system rather than those who aren't current? I'm not saying this is necessarily so, but don't you begin to consider the possibility?

If the success rates were that low in just about anything else, I think there would be no hesitation. People would start looking at alternatives. And there is one here that is much more fair.

[Maru Kitteh]

103. Sometimes theres a reason selfish assholes of either sex find themselves divorced and w/o custody

Almost (almost) ALL of the chronically late and defaulted n/c I have known were pretty sad specimens. Morally bereft, male and female alike.

[stevenleser]

129. At least you didnt respond to me with a sweeping generalization... oh wait...

:eyes:

[uppityperson]

143. delete. I mistook you for the OP and was reacting thusly.

[stevenleser]

162. self delete

:hug:

[uppityperson]

164. my apologies, I mistook you for OP. I was wrong. eom

[stevenleser]

165. See my #94 n/t

[uppityperson]

166. Link to reputable source regarding that statistic, otherwise it is just numbers

[stevenleser]

169. Here you go. Numbers have moved slightly since I last checked but not materially so

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadbeat_parent#Child_support_arrears

According to the US Census Bureau, 47.3% of custodial mothers (as "obligees") received all child support that they were owed and 77.5% received some. Additionally, 46.2% of custodial fathers (as "obligees") received all child support that they were owed and 74.5% received some.<1>

-------------------------
The numbers are still horribly low and women are still worse at paying than men.

The numbers are indicative of a policy that has failed and there is a better solution.

[uppityperson]

170. Thank you, those numbers are closer together than 54/45 you posted elsewhere. I found this

link also with info on who is in arrears, broken down by income and other things.

http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/07/assessing-CS-debt/execsum.htm


Your numbers via wiki
47.3% men paid all, 46.2% of women paid all that they owed.
77.5% men, 74.5% women paid some.

Not 54% men, 45% women you wrote. Thanks for the numbers.

[stevenleser]

172. The male figure has gone down in the last 3 years, probably due to the recession. I've heard that

this recession has disproportionately affected men.

[uppityperson]

173. That could be. Now men/women's jobs are more even, incomes more even

Since construction has taken such a downturn, seems more men were laid off there than women were. In other sectors, more women. In other sectors, equal. Could be the recession is making incomes and jobs more equal between men and women? just thinking here, no facts, just thinking aloud.

[stevenleser]

175. I knew I read it somewhere... here it is...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheat-sheet/item/the-male-recession/who-knew/#

The Male Recession
From a couple days ago, a fascinating statistic that has given rise to the unfortunate label “man-cession”: 82 percent of the 2.4 million jobs that the United States has lost over the past year have been lost by men. “Stated differently,” writes economist Mark J. Perry,” for every female job lost, there were 4.5 male jobs lost.” In the last recession, between January 2001 and January 2002, only 57 percent of the jobs lost were by men. In the recession before that, between May 1990 and May 1991, 70 percent of the jobs lost were by men. According to Perry, men are concentrated in the two business sectors that suffering the most: manufacturing and construction.

[uppityperson]

83. And whiny, selfish little pouters into real women. nt

[Maru Kitteh]

86. Indeed! n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

191. You might be surprised that real men use their own definitions. n/t

[auburngrad82]

80. It's actually about taking responsibility for your actions

I work in Child Support and there are very few custodial parents "living the life of luxury." And they're lucky if they get $20-50 per week from the NCP. That's not going to buy much these days.

[Starry Messenger]

87. Only if you see a well-cared for child as an affront, I guess.

I'm with a man who is supporting his college-aged son *voluntarily* with my enthusiastic support. It means we live smaller, but comforted knowing that the kid is eating well, has shelter and can pursue opportunities that he might not be able to if he had to work a wage-earning job to support himself through school. I'm proud to be sharing my life with an adult who loves his son.

[Modern_Matthew]

88. Yes, but the money should only be used on the kid...

A lot of women use the money on themselves and that's not OK.

Also, if she's living with another man and using that money to do things with that man... I'd quickly become a deadbeat. A damn proud one.

[Maru Kitteh]

89. you'd soon become a proud deadbeat in jail - and I would laugh

You don't have a right to act on assumptions about the finances of an ex based on your own insecurities and dysfunctional possessiveness.

[uppityperson]

91. You abdicate all responsibility if other parent lives with another adult & does "things" with him?

Seriously? If the custodial parent, in your case a woman, lived with another man and they went to a movie, you'd become a proud deadbeat? If she went out to dinner?

Seriously? And you take a user name of Modern_Matthew which could be seen either as "modern" (a proud dead beat dad) or biblical (a proud dead beat parent)?

[dana_b]

145. and how would you know?

I don't think the court would be too sympathetic to you- and they shouldn't be.

[Mariana]

176. "A lot of women use the money on themselves and that's not OK."

Men, of course, are incapable of misusing child support payments. :eyes:

[bobbolink]

90. Deciding to be a parent is a LIFE TIME job.

[MineralMan]

92. The non-custodial parent still played half the role of creating

the child. Support is not optional. If you do not wish to create a child, there are means to prevent it. If you ignore those, then you're responsible for your get.

It. is. that. simple.

[NotThisTime]

93. When do you STOP being a parent to your child? Never... that's when child support stops.

If your child is legally an adult and they have no shoes, no job, do you not help them? Help them get a job so they can put shoes on their feet but put shoes on their feet in the meantime? Perhaps it is just me, but the obligation to my children will never stop, and likewise the mutual respect we share will never stop

[seabeyond]

99. of course the parent should have to pay back. that money the primary spent that was not available

could have gone into college, retirement or any number of things that primary parent was deprived of because the other parent did not meet his/her responsibility

[KT2000]

115. so if the non-custodial parent

can hang on and not pay anything until the child is 18, they should be let off the hook for the money they owe? I don't think so. The custodial parent likely had hard times making ends meet and may have racked up credit card bills etc. Even if they didn't, it is about meeting one's responsibilities.

[JVS]

121. Yeah, the idea of making it so that you get off the hook for dodging until 18...

would be a great incentive to avoid paying and adds an almost game-like aspect to it.

[tammywammy]

123. You sound like an ass

Yes, you should pay the back child support after the child turns 18, because it's your debt that you still owe.

[Bluenorthwest]

124. Bookmarking for next time someone says 'Sanctity of Marriage'

or claims there is some special status to straight people's 'Sacramental' Unions.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

128. If you didn't want to support a child, you shouldn't have had a child

If you were married/still married to the child's mother, you bet you'd be supporting that child.

[MadHound]

132. It is about supporting a child,

Unfortunately I've also seen it used as a tool to beat up the non-custodial parent on a number of occasions.

[Darkhawk32]

156. Or as in my case, I have my kids half the time and still fork over 25% of my net income to their....

mother.

So, I'm actually doing MORE than my fair share and living in near poverty to boot while their mother lives it up.

[uppityperson]

157. I bet your kids appreciate your being financially responsible for them.

[Darkhawk32]

158. I sacrifice so much...

Working 6 or 7 days a week, wearing tattered clothes to work, not going out much, no way to be able to date again, struggling to pay bills at times...

But I was told by the judge.. "You're the man, you pay." Nevermind the circumstances of the case.

[Starry Messenger]

135. In December you stated that you and your partner make 100,000 a year

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=59788&mesg_id=60197

I know that is not exceedingly wealthy, but it is certainly comfortable even with child support payments and living in an apartment to save costs. If you are renting a "hole in the wall", why would you even need to buy a refrigerator? Don't landlords generally supply those?

[Liquorice]

142. Interesting. The new partner of the non-custodial parent is sometimes

vehemently opposed to giving the ex any money, even though it is for the partner's child. I've seen this before. It's very petty and shows no respect or caring for the partner's child. This kind of attitude can cause a terrible rift with the non-custodial parent and child if the new partner insists on the non-custodial parent fighting against paying child support.

[Starry Messenger]

147. Yeah. Otherwise known as "Starry's stepmother, 1984-1987"

This whole thread is bringing back incredibly unpleasant memories I thought I had suppressed.

[Liquorice]

149. I had one of those too. It was awful. nt

[Starry Messenger]

160. Here's another interesting post, blueamy66 getting mom's child support reduced:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=903643&mesg_id=907772

I did the "lawyer" work for my fiance, who was trying to get his child support reduced....which, by the way, I was successful at. :-) The mother of his son was a total witch about the whole thing. I wish I had taken the bar exam, as I should have been paid alot of cash.

[uppityperson]

161. Interesting, and now she doesn't want to have to pay what he owes in arrears

Yes, I would call it vengeance indeed.

[Pithlet]

168. Ugh. n/t

[Liquorice]

185. Oh good God, that brings back bad memories. That poor kid. I hope the father

will wake up and realize that he owes that money and it should go to his kid's support and not to his new partner. And I hope the kid will be able to forgive his dad one day.

[ejpoeta]

265. i had a friend whose boyfriend was a real jerk. wouldn't work extra hours etc.

didnt want his ex getting any extra child support. he had like three kids with his ex. my friend had one kid with her ex and she had two kids with her current boyfriend. man this guy was good at getting out of having to pay for stuff. he was a real deadbeat as far as i was concerned. i think that lady is going to be sorry when she finds herself on the other end of that situation. i don't really understand why someone wouldn't look at how the person is treating their ex or child support and see that as a giant red flag!!

[blueamy66]

197. There's no "rift".

Sorry.

[uppityperson]

146. "My fiance and I make over $100k a year". Wow. Good catch. I'd like to know how long child support

has not been paid. Good thought on that buying a refrigerator, yes, landlords generally supply those these days.

[JVS]

150. Oh shit. That one.

[blueamy66]

199. Please expound.

I'd love to hear what you have to say. Cause I'm sure you've lived my life for the past 40 years.

Please, do tell me everything about myself. I am waiting....

[Forkboy]

234. Wow, you're actually 40 and think this way?

Judging from the OP I wouldn't have guessed any older than 20.

[blueamy66]

198. 100k BEFORE TAXES AND SUPPORT

Now you do the numbers, k?

I never stated that the non-custodial parent was renting a hole in the wall at this time...I don't believe I said that. In the past, yes. Without my income and my home, he most certainly would be.

And the new fridge...bought a USED one thru Craigslist...and spent 3 days doing it. Couldn't afford a new one and don't want any credit card debt.

Why do all of the research to find a thread from 5 months ago anyway? Geez, get a hobby.

[Starry Messenger]

210. $60,000 from your own math

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=805763&mesg_id=806256

We make about $100k before taxes and child support (one teenager who is the bomb). So $60k is about what we clear. But, we have a company car, insurance on that car, gas is paid for and so is my guy's mobile phone.

We do okay. We live in AZ.

The search function on DU takes seconds, it is really no problem at all. I did the "research" because of the inconsistencies in things you have stated. When you write things on DU, they are here for everyone to read. Upthread you implied that you were both living in a rather small apartment, it wasn't very clear that there was home ownership of some type involved.

I don't consider buying a fridge on Craiglist a hand to mouth existence, but a nice environmental practice. Be that as it may, I hardly care about your appliance purchasing, I just thought it was something that one would not have to do if you lived in an apartment. Rentals generally supply those.

When you start a thread claiming that your partner's ex is using child support that is in ARREARS as VENGEANCE, you can bet that there are people who are going to take notice and reply. The system that we have is not perfect by any means, and if there was a better social safety net in this country, arguments like this would be rare or nonexistent. But this is the system that we have. It is distressing to be the child in this situation and know that there are adults who have put a dollar sign on every bite you take.

[blueamy66]

229. My last thing to say.

I own the home. My fiance owns nothing. If he wasn't living with me, he'd be in a shithole apartment.

You don't know how much of that $100k is mine and how much is his, now do ya?

The system sucks...some people are evil....but hey, I believe karma and she'll get hers...well, she kinda already has in a way...and it brings joy to my cold, dead heart. :-)

Anyway, I'll go on through life being a bitch. Whatever.

[uppityperson]

231. It brings you joy to cause suffering in others. You are so special. It brings you joy to be with a

man who avoids his past responsibilities. Have you tried that yet with your other bills? Tell the electric company "oh that bill is for power I already used and I don't have to pay it"?

Sounds like you deserve each other. A parent who avoids paying child support and a new spouse who is happy to cause pain.

[Bunny]

248. .

[blueamy66]

255. Thank you.

Cause you, uppity person, KNOW so much more about me.

If someone else was paying my electric bill, I shouldn't have to pay it, no?

Have a nice Sunday afternoon!!!!

:rofl:

[uppityperson]

262. If you run up a bill, you are responsible for paying it, even if the reason is not current.

Yes, I know what you have posted here and can quite accurately describe that.

[Starry Messenger]

241. You've got that straight.

:thumbsup: Couldn't agree more. With your last sentence.

[blueamy66]

254. FUNNY

:-)

[treestar]

152. It is about supporting the child

the child needs financial support and should have it from both parents. The states have gone out of their way to find fair ways to calculate it.

a child is entitled to be supported at the level its parents can afford. The noncustodial parent gets visitation. and has to pay support. Anyone arguing differently does not care about their child. Too bad. The laws say you have to support them.

[bikebloke]

153. With my mother it was selfish greed.

She spent most of it on herself. When I stopped living with her at age 15, she still demanded it though I was living with my father. As there wasn't any money in it for her, she never tried contacting me in the following decades. Only when she was dying, did her sister want to fly me across the country for a made-for-TV deathbed visit. Fuck her.

[Darkhawk32]

159. With some women, it's totally about greed and vengeance.

This is my view... if there are two good parents, both are working and can both take care of the kids (if they live in the same town), then the kids should be 50/50 and no child support should be awarded to either parent. But that's just plain 'ol common sense.

[mzteris]

171. It's taking care your CHILD!

PERIOD.

No, your obligation does not end. ESPECIALLY IF YOU WERE A DEADBEAT AND DIDN"T PAY WHEN YOU WERE FREAKING SUPPOSED TO.

[shoutinfreud]

178. It's about whatever you want it to be about.

I know a guy who has a kid living in another country. It was one of those things, at 20, he and his then GF got pregnant. They knew it wouldn't work as a marriage and had an amieable split. He pays Child support cause he loves his son and wants to contribute to the kid's life. He and the mom are friends and there's no vengeance at all.

Some people don't pay child support for vengeance, these people are assholes. Also, I think, no matter how old the kids are, backpayments for child support are fair game for collection for a couple reasons

A: Reimbursement of money spent over the years. the person with the kid needs money for retirement...etc. And if they spent all of it on the kid, that's hardly fair.
B: If all you had to do was dodge the payments til the kid was 18, how many deadbeats would just do that, you'd create even more.

[mrmpa]

180. A good story about child support.....my brother and his first wife divorced

when their daughter was about 4. My brother is a union member with a great job, every time there was a pay raise, my ex-sister-in-law went to court to get the support raised. My brother hired an attorney when his daughter was about 8, and got the child support capped at $350.00 a month never to be raised again. He remarried and had 2 children, the ex wife remarried and had 2 more children.

Flash forward 10 years, my niece was 18 graduating from high school and ready to go off to college, the ex wife announced that their daughters college (state school)was paid for. She had put all of the child support into a savings account.

Now she could afford to do this, as she continued to work and new husband was also employed well. Others can't do this, but it was used correctly to support her college education.

[TorchTheWitch]

181. back child support is owed regardless of how old the kid becomes

Yes, it's about supporting the child, and child support payments are rarely ever anything close to how much is needed but how much the non-custodial parent can afford to pay, and it's left to the custodial parent to figure out how to come up with the extra money that's needed.

No, you don't get to use the child's birthdays like a clock running out on your DEBT that you owe and should have paid at the time it was owed. Because while you weren't paying what you needed to and are required to SOMEBODY ELSE had to... and it was the custodial parent who in order to come up with the money they were supposed to be getting from you very likely needed to take out a loan or max out credit cards thus being stuck paying piles of interest that the delinquent debtor will never have to pay of penny of even though it was the debtor's fault borrowing money was necessary at all.

Vengeance? FUCKING VENGEANCE??? If anybody ever EARNED the right ten times over to want vengeance it's the custodial parent in the above scenario getting royally shafted by their shitstain of an ex who suddenly believes the custodial parent has a money tree growing in their closet and an entire flock of golden egg laying geese living in their basement.

It's YOUR KID and you should WANT them to have every advantage they possibly can even though child support payments almost never even cover the basics just as you wanted it when you were still a family living under the same roof. The only vengeance I ever see in these situations is shitheaded selfish pricks taking it out ON THEIR KID for their needs because you're pissed at the ex... and there is no uglier kind of vengeance in child support disputes than THAT, and it's epidemic.

[Warren DeMontague]

182. Barf.

Apparently, you've left enough of your personal laundry all over DU for people to have pieced together the story. Seriously, Ick.

Let me sum it up for you: You shouldn't have gotten involved with someone who had a kid from a previous marriage, if this was going to chafe you down the road. The responsibility doesn't go away just because you came along.

[CreekDog]

183. You must be posting this in honor of Mother's Day

and all those selfish, single mothers, sticking it to their exes out of spite while they and their kids live high off the hog.

:sarcasm:

[Warren DeMontague]

187. They just don't appreciate the difficulties the 2nd wife can go through.

Particularly when she has to put up with a husband's previous life that stubbornly refuses to go away entirely.

[blueamy66]

200. Well no....as my Mother is dead.

But thanks anyway.

I'm just gonna go to the cemetery and bring some flowers.

Should be a hoot....

[blueamy66]

201. Thanks all for the replies.

Some made me think...others just annoyed the living shit outta me.

Have a great Sunday!!!!

Oh, and by the way, please don't think that you know everything about someone from a message board.

[CreekDog]

214. all we know about you is what you say on this message board

hence the "annoying" replies.

if you put that sort of stuff out there, don't expect everyone to say, "must be a wonderful person in real life."

:hi:

[blueamy66]

225. Like I said....

I took some advice and ignored other advice.

Yeah, you don't know much about me...but those that search for my older posts still crack me up.

And I am a wonderful person in real life...but that's it...I am a person, a human.. not perfect.

:hi:

[CreekDog]

245. Maybe you are wonderful

But I've never met a wonderful person who told me that they were. :shrug:

[blueamy66]

253. I said that I wouldn't post anymore...but..I will

There's a first for everything isn't there???? Now you've come across a wonderful person who thinks that they are wonderful.

:shrug:

[CreekDog]

213. And you aren't honoring other mothers, that's for sure

with the blanket accusation that child support is done out of spite.

[blueamy66]

223. I really don't give a shit, ya know?

Why should I honor other peoples' mothers anyway?

[uppityperson]

226. Seriously, why should you honor the mother of your step-child? What did she do anyway?

[Tikki]

189. When I turned 8 my parents divorced..my father never...

missed a child support payment.
I never saw him again after the bitter divorce (his choice), but I am very, very thankful he sent
those child support checks.

Tikki

[lumberjack_jeff]

190. Obviously it *should* be the former.

Sadly, in its application it tends to be the latter.

Hypothetical example one: Noncustodial parent (a builder) is out of work and cannot pay support. Said parent offers to repair the roof on custodial parent's house in lieu of support. Support enforcement won't accept this mutually agreed compromise solution.

Hypothetical example two: Noncustodial parent has legitimate concerns that the support paid is not being used to benefit the kids. Substituting food, clothing, or other direct financial support is unacceptable because the only acceptable form of support is a check payable to the custodial parent.

Hypothetical example three: Custodial parent is taking a business trip. The non custodial parent would be happy to take time off work to take over temporary custody in lieu of some portion of the child support. This is not compliant with the court order. Granted, like the parents in example one, the parties *could* circumvent the court order by money transfer under the table.

These examples all show how the courts complicate if not preclude noncustodial parent from having an active role in the childrens upbringing.

On edit:
But stepmoms and stepdads should butt the fuck out.

[uppityperson]

224. Another set of hypothetical examples and alternative endings for yours....

Hypothetical example one: Noncustodial parent (a builder) does not take a job that pays wages and takes out taxes, only works under the table so no income is declared and therefore has to pay only minimal in child support.

Hypothetical example two: Noncustodial parent has concerns that the support paid is not being used to benefit the kids since the custodial parent has a new (to them) couch and is able to go out to a movie. Noncustodial parent does not realize that the new (to them) couch was found sitting by the road with "free" on it and the movie ticket was a gift from a friend. Noncustodial parent is incensed that custodial parent refuses to explain all expenses down to the penny.

Hypothetical example three: Custodial parent is taking a business trip. The noncustodial parent would be happy to take time off to "babysit" their child if only the custodial parent would go back to court and give noncustodial parent custody. Noncustodial parent refuses to "babysit" their child unless granted custody by the court.

These examples all show how noncustodial parent complicates is not precludes themselves from having an active role in their child's upbringing.

Alternative ending for your hypothetical example one: Custodial parent files a report with the court or child support enforcement division saying they will accept the roof being repaired, submits the bill and a written statement.

Alternative ending for your hypothetical example two: noncustodial parent gives their child food and clothing out of the goodness of their heart, because they found a good deal or something their child would like. It is true that child support is generally money and most cases rather than buying clothing or food, give the same amount of money. Noncustodial parent gives up control of ex's actions for the good of their children.

Alternative ending for your hypothetical example three: Custodial parent is taking a business trip. The non custodial parent would be happy to take time off work to take over parenting while custodial parent is gone. Custodial parent goes on trip, noncustodial parent parents their child during duration of the trip, without any legal custody change.

These example all show how noncustodial parent simplifies and includes themselves in having an active role in their child's upbringing.

[Mariana]

275. My husband and his ex-wife did the money transfer

"under the table" several times for various reasons. That option works just fine when both parents are honest and are willing to work together for the good of the child.

[mmonk]

195. It's about responsibility to one's offspring and their well being.

Is it used by spouses sometimes as vengeance? I'm sure that's true in some cases.

[leeroysphitz]

202. Why can't it be about both? n/t

[trud]

204. my, my

Ran out on supporting your kid, did you? And now you think you don't have to pay your wife back for the extra she paid when you were being a deadbeat.

[Courtesy Flush]

205. IOW: If you weasel out of paying for 18 years, are you off the hook?

[jp11]

206. Seems like punishment, if it were about supporting the child it would be paid

by the government or forcibly taken by the government for the child. As it stands you can simply not pay and 'nothing happens', the child's caregiver isn't awarded funds if the support is stopped, late, etc they are simply 'owed' but have to go to court to try and get it.

I'm sure there are instances where a paycheck is garnished for support but I *believe* changing jobs/moving etc mean a new court date to then have the garnishing go on at the new job meanwhile the caregiver isn't being given the money owed/due. I may be wrong about that I only know of a situation directly where support is due, it isn't paid, there is back support owed, and there is nothing being given to the caregiver from the government as the owed amount continues to increase.

[Courtesy Flush]

258. If the government supported the child

Through social programs, they expect to be reimbursed. Paying your bills is not punishment.

[aikoaiko]

208. Unfortunately, there are so many stories of deadbeat parents with money

that the laws are sometimes tough on well intentioned but financially struggling parents.

Yes, I've heard some stories of what sounds like vengeful child support that didn't always go to the child.

Seems like the child support rules should apply to both parents where the money is pooled and an accounting of the use of the funds is monitored would help solve some of the problems, but that would mean a huge bureaucracy.

[Ilsa]

211. I know parents that are in debt up to their eyeballs because

the other parent didn't do their part to help support their child. Child support doesn't make the custodial parent rich.

[WCIL]

215. Wow. My husband is a prince among men

He paid child support of $850/month for his two children more than 10 years ago. When the oldest turned 18 and left home, he and his ex spoke and he agreed to keep paying the $850 for one child, as otherwise they would have to move and cut back expenses dramatically. He also paid a few additional months of support after the youngest child was launched so that his ex could finish her bachelors degree. It wasn't about vengeance at all, it was about providing a safe, stable environment for his children and making sure that the mother of two of his children could absorb the loss of income.

While it was hard some months, I would not be able to be with a man who would do any less for his children.

[Taitertots]

220. Must be nice to be so rich that $850 a month doesn't bankrupt you

What are the vast majority of people who are not as lucky as you supposed to do?

[WCIL]

227. I realize I am lucky.

My only point was that he knew he had an obligation to help support his children, and he did - no matter the hardship to himself.

[Taitertots]

232. He was lucky enough to be wealthy so it isn't a hardship

At least compared to the people who are unlucky enough to be poor.

[Taitertots]

219. Child support should be abolished and replaced with a fair system

Option 1: 50/50 access to the child with no child support
Option 2: Parent chooses less than 50/50 access and has to pay custodial parent for the imbalance of care
Option 3: No access and no child support

[uppityperson]

230. You think that is fair? Wow. I'm glad that most places have a formula these days

based on income of each and % of time child spends with each. Much better than in the old days when you had to beg and prove what you needed for survival.

[Taitertots]

233. No one should have to pay for a child they don't want or don't get equal access to n/t

[uppityperson]

235. Everyone should be responsible for their child, no matter access or desire. nt

[Taitertots]

244. Everyone should be responsible for their choices, not the choices of other people

Anyone who makes the choice to keep a child is making the choice that they want to financially support said child.

[uppityperson]

261. Anyone who makes a child is making the choice to financially contribute to supporting their child

[CreekDog]

247. Implicit in your post

is not a damned thing that indicates more concern for the child than parents.

:wtf: :banghead:

[Skidmore]

221. Exactly how much do you think it costs to support a child?

And when does parenting end?

If you want your child to have a college education, some support is needed, even if it is only carrying health insurance for him or her until age 25.

That "child" is your child for life. AND part of parenting is to help get them on their feet as responsible adults. It doesn't end.

[uppityperson]

228. She's complaining about her new husband having to pay arrears on child support he avoided

in the past.

[Skidmore]

237. There are still childrearing costs that extend into early adulthood.

Perhaps if her husband hadn't wanted the responsibility of children, he should have kept it zipped or used birth control. He's still those children's father and had/has an obligation to them. It is not about her and the former spouse. It is about not using children as footballs or punishing them for the parents' inability to maintain a relationship. She should stay out of it.

[uppityperson]

238. I am in very strong agreement.

[blueamy66]

257. I'm not married yet. Geez.

But the wedding is in November.

Wanna come uppity?

[msanthrope]

263. I think you ought to reconsider getting married.

From your description of your relationship on this and other threads I have learned--

You have a fiance who makes less than you, has moved into your home, got you to do the legal legwork for the court filing to reduce his child support payments, and has managed to whip you into a seething anger against his ex???

In my opinion, you have found a person who has managed to emotionally manipulate you, to his economic benefit. To your emotional detriment, it seems he is using you as a buffer between his ex, and his stepchild.

This is not a recipe for a happy marriage.

It's also a puke-worthy example of a woman, denigrating another woman, to uphold the patriarchy.

[blueamy66]

274. Well, your not invited anyway. You'd ruin the mood.

Who else would do the legal work? My degree is in Criminal Justice. I interned for 4 semesters at various CJ offices.

We COULDN'T afford a lawyer...but I made sure that I sent paperwork after paperwork to her attorney....which she could WELL AFFORD, thanks to us...so that every time he opened an envelope, she had to pay him. It was awesome. I drew up so many objections, it became comical.

He doesn't emotionally manipulate me. Again, you don't know SHIT about me or him. He would prefer that I never contact her...which I don't. His economic benefit? Do you know what he does for a living? Where he works?

Again, you don't know SHIT about me.

Oh yeah, I am puke-worthy. Come walk a mile in my shoes, okay msanthrope?

[uppityperson]

277. I think he should reconsider marrying you. I wonder if you have shown him your nasty postings here

wonder if he is aware of this side of you. You who take pride in running up your fiance's ex's lawyer bill yet scream "she wants vengeance" when he is told he must pay his arrears. Does he know he is marrying such a person?

Incredible.

[msanthrope]

280. Oh, I think every pot has its lid, ya' know? n/t

[blueamy66]

281. Thank you. I am incredible.

Yep, I did take pride in running up her lawyer fees. And it worked.

He knows exactly who he is marrying.

Now, uppity, go back to your perfect life and be perfect. K? I have a wedding to plan!

[msanthrope]

286. Your poor stepchild. n/t

[msanthrope]

284. Too bad your 'degree' in Criminal Justice didn't teach you not to incriminate yourself.

Did you really spend time writing objections to drive up her legal bill? Pathetic.

And not for anything, but your post only reinforces my belief that you are with a master manipulator--he's so good, he actually got you to do his dirty work while he 'prefers' you not contact her.....

Honey, there's only two reasons for that--

1) She's gonna tell you some bad, true stuff.
2) She's gonna tell you some bad, false stuff.

He doesn't want you to hear the former, and doesn't think you can discern the latter.

[uppityperson]

290. Sure, thanks for the invitation. I'd love to meet your fiance. Thanks!

[TNLib]

250. It's about the Child and it's also about fairness

Why should one parent cary all the financial burden of raising a child. Even if the child is grown and back support is due it still should be paid. It's only fair. I'm not sure what Vengeance has to do with it.

[Kurska]

251. Bullshit, if you owe back child support it means you didn't pay your child support

And thus the OTHER PARTY had to pick up the slack for your non paying ass, this would only encourage people ducking as many payments as possible in 18 years for the debt to go away.

[TNLib]

252. I can't believe the dead beat Dads on DU

My Dad lived in a hovel and he always paid his child support. Eventually he got a better job remarried and moved into a nice home. But while he was struggling he always paid his support.

I'll have to send him a nice Fathers Day present this year. You Dead beats really make me appreciate my dad who lived up to his responsibilities.

[CreekDog]

273. Funny what comes out of the woodwork when certain topics are posted

anybody who begrudges their kids child support has no credibility with me.

[quaker bill]

256. It is about supporting the child

but is occasionally used as a weapon as well.

[franzia99]

267. For starters, if there's back child support the other parent should be compensated for picking up

the slack. That's money that could have gone into his or her retirement account, savings, or whatever. Also, if the court finds they should provide for the kid after age 18 then both parents should have to contribute to that. I don't have kids so I don't know what the rules are on post age 18 support.

[Synicus Maximus]

269. Child support is about supporting the child. If some one is ordered

to pay they are obligated to it the amount due. But at the age of 18 the "child" is legally an adult and is responsible for their own expenses. If a parent wishes to help their offspring and has the ability to do so well and good. But they are under no obligation to do so any more than they have an obligation to help any other family member.

[Taverner]

270. Really depends on the case

I've known some divorcees to "go for the jugular"

I've also known some divorcees who didn't work needing support for the kid

It's not a yes or no kind of question

[Odin2005]

271. I thought it ALWAYS stopped when the child becomes legally an adult?

My Dad stopped paying child support to my mom when I turned 18, but he still voluntarily gave me money to help get establish myself on my own and paid for half of my rent until I got on Section 8.

[tammywammy]

272. The OPs also upset because her partner has to pay the child support he's in arrears for. n/t

[msanthrope]

287. No. Not always. It depends.

State-mandated child support for a non-dependant adult will stop.

But some people make private agreements at the time of their divorce/separation to continue support thru college, etc. Those agreements are enforceable by all parties, including the child.

If you have a child who is considered dependant/disabled, you may be ordered to continue to pay support--this varies state by state, and generally, this is for children who have a disability incurred during their minority.

[BlueIris]

276. I am so tired of encountering people who whine about their child support obligation.

:nopity:

[pitohui]

278. the person who loves the child supports the child thru college

maybe you're canadian or something but to put a child thru college in the usa costs hundred thousand dollars or more

the sperm donor does not get to stop paying child support when the child reaches age 18, the first 18 years are trivial by comparison to the real costs of educating the child

it ain't about shoes and food, it's about raising and educating a child

if you're not prepared to do that, put a rubber on it

if you think it's just about "if the child is alive at the end of the day i've done my job," well, roseanne, i don't want you for my mom, a child should not be just given a pair of shoes and a bowl of gruel, a child needs an education and a fucking CHANCE

[cherish44]

279. It about supporting the child

And if you marry or get involved with someone who has children, you're going to have accept their children and their obligations to those children as part of the package. People who can't deal with that, should go find someone without kids.

[PeaceNikki]

282. I take pleasure in the fact that someone who enjoys fucking with people is being fucked with.

Have fun!!

ETA: But I feel very very sorry for any children whose lives you impact. May they grow up using you as an example of how NOT to be a petty asshole.

[w8liftinglady]

283. I can only speak as the parent who went without child support for a few years.

My ex- fell ff the map for awhile. In that time,I pawned everything I owned so the kids could get shoes,school supplies, dental visits, fed,homed . I also was paying old bills we had accrued together.
Yes,child support missed should be made up. You have no idea what the custodial parent went through while the other chose not to pay.