A squirt gun? They were armed with SQUIRT GUNS?

[Bicoastal]

This is not to suggest any sort of conspiracy theory--I am 100% sure Bin Laden and his people were killed, and killed because they either had weapons or presented themselves as unwilling to surrender--but...

Do you see what I saw in these Reuters pictures of men killed in the raid? WARNING--EXTREMELY GRAPHIC:

http://www.reuters.com/subjects/bin-laden-compound

It shows up in pix #2 and #3. It's neon orange and green, and looks plastic. Isn't that a squirt gun? Or, at the very least, some kind of faux-weaponry toy?

Any theories to why Bin Laden and his men would have that lying around?

[Common Sense Party]

1. Kids lived there. n/t

[Glimmer of Hope]

2. There were children in the house.

[originalpckelly]

13. You have to wonder how many of those children will be fucked up because of this.

And the cycle of violence continues, and we've got newly minted terrorists.

If the toys were still there, it suggests there were kids of that age in that house.

[yawnmaster]

17. They were well on the way to fucked-upness before this, I believe. eom

[originalpckelly]

23. Well, then, if they were unredeemable, why didn't we just shoot them too?

It's not like this nation had any problem killing little kids any other time in the years leading up to this.

I guess it would look bad publicity wise, but then again, bloodied bodies with kiddie toys in the background isn't going to do much for us either.

[dionysus]

41. you're really, really reaching now...

:rofl:

[Solomon]

74. My joints and lugaments are hurting terribly from watching

the reaching.

[yawnmaster]

57. how do you know they were unredeemable? If you can guarantee that they would grow...

up to be killers then maybe you are right. But I don't see how you can make that claim.
Unless you are certified and registered psychic.

[originalpckelly]

65. My point was hyperbole.

That seems to be the ultimate and most extreme version of what is being discussed here. That we shouldn't care about the kids because they are beyond saving.

[alcibiades_mystery]

58. Oh gawd

Pathetic.

[alcibiades_mystery]

20. There were absolutely children in the house

The brothers/cousins had seven children between them, all very young. There were supposedly five or six additional children there too.

Which is another reason it's good that Obama chose the surgical strike team rather than the bombing option.

[seabeyond]

34. they are living in all of obl extremism and violence and ego and murder

and you are worried about this?

[tabasco]

46. Hahahahahahahaha.

Hahahahahahahahaha.

What's your excuse?

[bluestate10]

72. Imagine how many of the children that had relatives that died in the World Trade Center,

the Pentagon or a field in Pennsylvania are fucked because of what happened to them? There is always two sides of a coin.

[Tx4obama]

3. Don't be silly . There were at one time 23 children living in that compound. n/t

[Bicoastal]

6. Really? I guess I missed that part. There weren't any children in the compound

at the time of the raid, where there?

Could someone send me a link, pleez?

[alcibiades_mystery]

12. Uh, yes. There were in the area of 12 children present

[originalpckelly]

16. And how are those children?

How fucked up will they be for the rest of their lives?
And how many of those kids will be terrorists now?

When will we ever learn?

[Bicoastal]

19. Oh, won't somebody PLEASE think of the children! nt

[originalpckelly]

30. How many of those kids will be terrorists because of this?

We took out one guy, but if just two of those kids go on to be terrorists, we've increased the number of terrorists in the world.
If only one does, then we've effectively done nothing.

You see, this is called a cycle of violence, it's the quicksand that draws more and more people in to the awfulness of terrorism.

These kind of tactics are really working out quite well for the Israelis, aren't they?

[alcibiades_mystery]

33. You don't know that ANY of them will be

And it would take at least four to equal the number of terrorists killed, in any case. I like our chances with those numbers.

[Bicoastal]

49. Jesus, you talk as if those kids had normal civilian lives before this!

Their parents were in cahoots with the head of Al Qaeda!

I'm glad we spared the kids, but we can't go easy on every dirtbag just because they happen to have procreated! That's basically called hiding behind your family--the mafia does it all the time. "Sure, I killed lots of innocent people--but I got a wife and three kids of my own! Go easy on me, your honor!"

By aiding and abetting a known international terrorist and murderer, their parents chose to put them in DIRECTLY in harms way. It's a shame about the kids losing their parents, but they were pretty much screwed from the day they were allowed to enter the bunker.

[originalpckelly]

53. Don't you feel at all sorry for those kids?

I feel sorry for any children who are the victims of their parents bad decisions and brainwashing.

[Bicoastal]

55. Of COURSE I do. But my sympathy does not extend to those

who put them there in the first place. It's a hard decision, but I'd rather traumatize an innocent child for life than risk having his or her parents KILL more innocent children in the future.

[RaleighNCDUer]

59. Frankly, if just two of them become terrorists after this,

that's several fewer than there would have been if they had grown up with OBL.

[yawnmaster]

60. How many would have been terrorists anyway. When you have that number...

then find that number that will become terrorists because of this.
divide that number by the first number and that is your number of influence from this event.
It will be a number less than 100% and I suspect very small.
Then take the square root of the second number and use that as your uncertainty..plus or minus that amount.

[Codeine]

75. They lived in an al-Qaeda safehouse with Osama bin fucking Laden.

They weren't exactly going to go to junior college, backpack around Europe for the summer, then finish up their Communications degree at Arizona State before getting a job at dad's ad agency, now were they? These kids were already drawn about as deeply into a "cycle of violence" as is humanly possible.

[Joe the Revelator]

21. Probably better off then the 9/11 children

There also better off because they are no longer living with Osama bin Ladin.

[alcibiades_mystery]

22. They're alive is how they are

You can thank Obama for choosing the correct method of getting the terrorists in the house. Indeed, it's likely he was influenced by the fact that there were children, since the kids in the house were in the same age range as his own kids or younger.

[originalpckelly]

25. Yeah, but having a bunch of Navy SEALs take your parents out...

will probably not do much for you in life.

[alcibiades_mystery]

29. They're alive, and bin Laden is dead

Here are the multiple possible combinations:

Kids alive, OBL alive
Kids alive, OBL dead
Kids dead, OBL alive
Kids dead, OBL dead.

It seems to me that we chose the right option of the four.

[Bicoastal]

40. What kind of life do you think those kids had? Their parents put them directly in harm's way!

by being part of Al Qaeda! The kids had big problems to begin with.

[originalpckelly]

43. Very true indeed.

I don't think we could have managed to get them out of their before they saw people shot before their eyes. That's going to fuck the kids up even more than any brainwashing ever could.

[Bicoastal]

54. Well, maybe so...

...but when you realize how many children lost one or both parents in Al Qaeda attacks worldwide...and when you realize that most of those adults were not enemy combatants but normal civilians on their way to jobs or errands..

Will these kids grow up to be terrorists? We don't know. But if they do or don't, I blame the people who knowingly, consciously introduced them into lives of violence in the first place. And as long as they spared the innocent (which it sounds like they did), those US Seals weren't the monsters in that compound on 5/1/11.

[yawnmaster]

61. How do you know that? eom

[Obamanaut]

71. Nor will having a bunch of extremists fly an airplane into the building

where your parent was working.

The people left behind always suffer to one degree or another.

[Codeine]

76. Having parents that needed t be taken out by Navy SEALs

wasn't doing a lot for them either. On the balance I'd say they have a better chance now than spending the rest of their childhood in a blacked-out compound - cut off from the rest of the world - with a murderous shit like ObL.

[Terra Alta]

35. they will most likely be haunted for life

And yes, it wouldn't surprise me if they ended up being terrorists after seeing their parents blown away.

We kill one terrorist, but create several more in the process.

[seabeyond]

37. are you saying being raised by osama would not influence them being terrorist, that it is ALL

because of the seals, if that were to happen.

really?

[originalpckelly]

44. As always, it's a combination of the two.

Witnessing your parents being blown away is probably one of the worst things a kid can see. In other conflicts throughout the world, it is my analysis that the deaths of relatives and friends is one driving force behind the continuation of violence in those conflicts. It's really just common sense.

It's like what Osama did was the seed, and the violence the kids are exposed to is the water that makes it grow.

[yawnmaster]

62. deaths of family and friends is just a tool to be used to influence the young by others...

it is my analysis that the young become terrorist not because of the violence they see but by the influence of others to continue that violence for consolidation of one group or another's power. You rarely see those holding power standing in front of a bullet (but often behind others) but you will sure find them urging others to do it for them, using whatever psych influence they have.

[originalpckelly]

67. How would think you'd feel if someone were to kill your family?

[yawnmaster]

73. Family members and friends of others are killed all the time in this country...

and very rarely is there any retribution.
I would venture to guess that when there is retribution it is because there are others supporting it, such as with a gang, which supports my statement. These kids may end up being terrorists, but only if they are driven to it by others. The killing of family members is just a tool used by others.

Oh and how would I feel?
Well, if my family was in to crime and violence I would lean that way.
For instance, if I was a Corleone and you kill my brother Sonny, I would probably seek revenge.

Me, from a less violent background would be very upset, but I doubt I would act outside the law.

[Zebedeo]

42. Oh, noes!

Now the children of al Quaeda might grow up to be terrorists!!!!111 What have we DONE?????? When will we EVER learn???? If we had just let them be, they would have prolly been fine with us, but now they're gonna be anti-American!!!!1111 This is HUGH!!!!111

[originalpckelly]

48. If this was such a forgone conclusion, why not kill the kids?

If it's just so automatic that it will happen, why not do it?

It's because we know better with kids. We see that they can stop violence.

[Zebedeo]

64. Of course it is not automatic.

Especially now that the kids are no longer being raised in OBL's terrorist hideout. Your misguided point was that we shouldn't have done the raid because now the kids might be liable to become terrorists. What do you think they were liable to become if we had done nothing?

[LiberalAndProud]

56. Had we done nothing, they would have been terrorists.

Sometimes you can't stop the bad. I don't understand why you have taken issue with every aspect of this operation. If given your druthers, it seems that you believe that Bush's course of action, to do nothing, was preferable. You're entitled to think that, but I doubt you'll find many who will concur with you here.

[verges]

63. And you don't think

they'd be as screwed up grpwing up in that environment?

[tekisui]

27. Are you sure it was that many? I thought it was 4.

Do you have a link for 12?

[originalpckelly]

32. We can only hope it was only 4.

If it was, then the world might be better off. Those kids are likely to become terrorists one day, unless they have been completely removed from any of their family.

[tekisui]

47. I also read that OBL told his kids not to take up jihad.

[originalpckelly]

51. Good.

But the kiddie toys in the background will be a valuable piece of propaganda for those that hate this nation. Those toys look like the toys American kids play with.

[Poll_Blind]

4. The compound had 3 entire families in it: bin Laden's and the two couriers.

They, along with one other man (believed to be on of bin Laden's sons) were the only adult males present in the entire compound. The reset were women and children. And when I say children, according to reports at least a dozen children, all under 12.

And little kids play with squirt guns.

PB

[Turbineguy]

5. They were expecting a

fire fight with the ISI.

:hide:

[warrior1]

7. even with a person down

you remove the gun. Standard OP, I would think.

[gateley]

8. Where did these photos come from? Were they taken AFTER

the SEALS departed? The way the captions read it looks like Reuters, but not sure they're their photos? Anybody know? :shrug:

[alcibiades_mystery]

14. Yes. They were taken by Pakistani authorities

Who - of course - immediately sold them to the press.

[gateley]

45. Ok -- that explains it. I was wondering if they were ours, and if so,

why it would be okay to release these which are pretty gruesome, but not OBL.
And yeah, natch they were sold to Reuters! :7

[chowder66]

18. Pakistani Security Official took and sold the pics. ....

The photos, taken by a Pakistani security official who entered the compound after the early morning raid on Monday, show two men dressed in traditional Pakistani garb and one in a t-shirt, with blood streaming from their ears, noses and mouths.

The official, who wished to remain anonymous, sold the pictures to Reuters.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/04/us-binladen-pakistan-photos-idUSTRE7437KK20110504

[gateley]

Thanks! nt

[aquart]

9. Only one hand shown in each shot.

What was in the other hands?

Me, I don't think our guys would leave guns behind. And I don't think the guy with money sewn into his clothes was likely to live without armed guards.

[El Supremo]

10. I heard there were lots of children there.

[KT2000]

11. ABC's footage showed

toys all over the place - inside and out.

[Bicoastal]

15. Holy SHIT! What if we raided Santa's Workshop by mistake?!

And that means...Bin Laden was...

Uh oh.

[KT2000]

26. surely Pakistan

would have informed us of that.

[seabeyond]

39. that

is just

wrong. lol

[Fuddnik]

24. You need a water weapon to kill a SEAL?

[Tx4obama]

28. 23 children had lived there at one time - here's a link

Bin Laden’s neighbors noticed unusual things at his secretive compound

ABBOTTABAD, Pakistan — When a woman involved in a polio vaccine drive turned up at Osama bin Laden’s hideaway, she remarked to the men behind the high walls about the expensive SUVs parked inside. The men took the vaccine, apparently to administer to the 23 children at the compound, and told her to go away.

Full article here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/bin_ladens_neighbors_noticed_unusual_things_at_his_secretive_compound/2011/05/03/AFERNWhF_story.html?wprss=rss_congress

[Distant Observer]

31. NO ONE WAS ARMED! THE LATEST STORY. As we all suspected.

[Tx4obama]

36. There WERE guns there

From Twitter:
CNN Breaking News cnnbrk
Taken at #Osama bin Laden compound: Documents, audio-video equipment, guns http://on.cnn.com/kc4itT

And

Excerpt:

Updated at 7:38 p.m. ET
In addition to computer equipment, U.S. commandos took from Osama bin Laden's compound five cell phones, audio and video equipment, "lots" of paper documents and about five guns, including AK-47s and pistols, a U.S. official told CNN homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/04/pakistan-source-some-in-bin-laden-compund-in-custody-being-interrogated/

[Puzzler]

50. It's not like the Pakistanis would have changed the scene a wee bit, eh?

I mean none of them would have removed any weapons from the scene?

(sarcasm)

Remember OBL was living in the biggest house in the area surrounded by high walls, very near to a military base. The idea that the Pakistanis had no clue that OBJ was living there stains credibility to the breaking point. At this stage I wouldn't believe anything they say.

[dionysus]

38. ROFL..... "no one was armed. As we all suspected." please tell me this is performance art, please...

:rofl:

[Egnever]

52. ROFL

So now Osama and his crew are heros?

You people need to get a fuckin grip.

[DainBramaged]

66. What is the fascination with dead bodies here?

Shit people, is that what we are, gawkers? Looking for a thrill?

Disgusting that shit like this is permitted. Using kids toys as a ploy to get people to click on the images (which I did NOT).

[dionysus]

68. i'll run it down for you. there were a few pics of dead bodies. visible in a photo is a squirt gun.

this is being used in a cheap way to push the idea that we killed saintly, unarmed folks.

the end.

[DainBramaged]

69. Doesn't belong here. Sorry. I have my limits.

[Liquorice]

70. OBL was the leader of a violent terrorist group which killed many innocent people

in order to incite terror in people. The end.