Grave dancing

[GaYellowDawg]

I've read a lot of stuff about how this should be a time for somber reflection and how celebrating bin Ladin's death is unseemly. Somber reflection? Please. If you kill the tiger that has been taking children from the village, you put its head on a stake and make a nice area rug out of its hide, and dance around the village fire. If you remove a killer from existence, I think it's just fine to celebrate removing that danger. And as far as dancing on a grave goes? This was Osama bin Ladin. This was a guy who orchestrated the killings of over 3,000 Americans who had done absolutely nothing to him. This was a guy who didn't hesitate to tell others to strap bombs to their chests just to blow other people up, for the purpose of a political statement. He didn't waste his own precious hide. Oh, no. "(young man's name here), I would go, but I'm just too dang important to the cause, so I'm going to need you to take one for the team. Just know that your sacrifice will get you all those virgins in heaven, and while you're on your way, I'll be sipping an aperitif back at my million dollar compound." He didn't just kill Americans. He suckered a lot of his own people into dying for his miserable, sick self. "Oh yes, (young man's name), you'll be one of the blessed. Right after you go kaboom." And so, am I going to dance on his grave? Well, to be honest, I'm not just dancing. I'm calling these people to help:



That's right, I want the whole world to Riverdance on this guy's grave. Stomp, stomp, stomp. Feel my shoe soles, you sorry piece of crap. Perhaps the vibrations will pass on down to that fiery little cell you've got going now.

And for the people who are lecturing us about somber reflection? We've already done the somber reflection. You know, this:



and this:



and this:



so please don't lecture us on how we mark the passage of a monster. I am not telling you to view this the same way that I do. If you want to somberly reflect, have at it. I won't disturb you. I'll even buy you a pair of earplugs so that you don't have to hear me celebrate, because if I want to be happy, I'll be happy. If I want to celebrate, I'll celebrate. If I want to dance, I'm dancing. If I wish I could have a bakery bake a cake and have them put "The #@!$er is DEAD and screw your national sovereignty" on it and mail it to the president of Pakistan, don't lecture me. I'm celebrating. It's May. The flowers are out, the sun is shining, and Osama bin Ladin is literally feeding the fishes. It is a fine spring.

Oh, and as for the critics of how bin Ladin was buried? The clerics and the experts? Well, boo frickin' hoo. He got more of a burial than any of the victims of 9/11, so take your indignation and stuff it where it hurts the most. "It wasn't a proper Muslim burial." Well, guess what, jerk? If you insist that Islam is a religion of peace, surely those who do violence in the name of Islam are not proper Muslims, so why should you care? Proper Muslim burials should be reserved for proper Muslims, not terrorists. Live in peace, be handled with care. Be a terrorist, and you are feeding the unclean animals at the bottom of the ocean. I just wish we could go crab fishing in a couple of weeks and force feed bin Ladin crab cakes to every one of his terrorist associates. And to the loudmouths who are whining about the burial at sea. Me personally, I would have cremated him, mixed his ashes into ceramic, made a public toilet out of it, put it at ground zero, charged a dollar per use, and donated the proceeds to the families of 9/11 victims and first responders. And I would visit that thing every time I went to New York City.

But since, I can't, I'm dancing. Ding, dong, the monster is dead.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

1. The River Phoenix Dance?

:hide:

[backscatter712]

2. K&R! We were waaaaaay too kind to OBL.

Instead of burying him at sea, I like one DUer's suggestion to cremate him, mix his ashes into ceramic, use the ceramic to make a toilet, and charge $10 a piss, with the proceeds going to the victims of 9/11.

Nevermind, GaYellowDawg beat me to it!

I'm not the least bit sorry for celebrating the death of a monster.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

4. You forgot the bacon wrapping...

[backscatter712]

5. Or bury him with his ass sticking out of the ground, pointing towards Mecca.

[GaYellowDawg]

6. Waste of good bacon IMO.

Bacon is a gift that should not be wasted on the likes of bin Ladin.

[backscatter712]

12. Feed him to hungry pigs!

Turn Osama into pig shit!

[cliffordu]

16. NOW we're talking.

Film that shit and put it on Youtube.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

13. There was a statement/actions attributed to Gen Pershing

debunked by Scopes and elsewhere but still a good read

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pershing.asp
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_black_jack_pershing.htm

[GaYellowDawg]

8. Actually, I wrote that, too.

I decided to drop the price to a dollar. We are in a recession, after all.

[backscatter712]

11. Indeed you did!

:toast:

[Lex]

3. Mostly I feel like everyone has a right to feel how they feel.

:shrug:

[GaYellowDawg]

7. You are absolutely right. ABSOLUTELY.

And I did say in the post that if you want to reflect, or do something other than celebrate, that's fine. I'm honestly not trying to tell anyone how to feel. I'm expressing how I feel, and expressing indignation at other people telling me I shouldn't feel that way. Therefore, I 100% agree with you.

[JuniperLea]

14. Me too...

That is the bottom line for me. No one has the right to tell another human being how to feel about anything. In fact, I find it appalling when someone thinks they have the right to do that... it really infuriates me. This is a basic human right, the right to your own feelings. There are no thought police or emotion police, and anyone who thinks they are just high and mighty enough that they have the right to tell someone what they can or cannot feel can kiss my lily white ass.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AsahinaKimi]

10. I would never lecture anyone

on how they must act or feel. Its up to every individual. However, it never hurts to post ones personal feeling on the matter. I think all perspectives should be heard, thats why we come here to DU. I would hope people would respect my opinions as I would respect theirs, even if I disagree with them. We all grew up in different ways and with different cultures. Its what keeps America strong, this diversity.

[JuniperLea]

17. I agree...

Of course you can post personal feelings without insinuating that yours are the "appropriate" feelings for all, and I think this is the gist of the OP. Whatever your feelings are, they are appropriate for you, and they are valid. All feelings are valid.

I sometimes think that different cultures with different ways doesn't really make all that much difference. I was born and raised in So. California, for example, and when people think of that situation they probably think self absorbed, self important, self, self, self. That's not my POV at all.

I'm not a grave dancer by any stretch of the imagination... but it's not my place to say someone else shouldn't.

I find you to be a very respectful person, and I always seek out your POV when I see you post to an OP of interest to me. You've become sort of a benchmark, and I aspire to be so balanced myself.

[AsahinaKimi]

19. Thank you ever so much for your kind and thoughtful words..

Doumo arigatou gozaimasu.. どうもありがとうございmす。。

[JuniperLea]

20. I recognize two of those words!

But sadly, I remember them from the rock tune Mr. Roboto... ugh... I need to get out more! I'm culturally challenged, which makes my appreciation of your writing here all the more solid!

[AsahinaKimi]

22. oh!

Yes..Doumo arigatou.. can be said more formally by saying: doumo arigatou gozaimasu. In Japanese you can say Thank you by saying:

Doumo. (casual)

Arigatou. (casual)

Doumo Arigatou. (polite)

Doumo Arigatou Gozaimasu. (Formal polite)

[JuniperLea]

24. Awesome!

Great lesson!

[cliffordu]

15. KIck and Rec.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

18. Okay then....so were any of the 3,000 raised back to life on Sunday?

Listen, I'm not saying what happened on Sunday wasn't a good thing. I'm not saying that I don't understand why people might celebrate. I'm not even saying there isn't room for some dark humor out of the situation. I even engaged in a little bit of it myself, here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1033258

But for me personally, gravedancing is meaningless. Those who died on September 11th are still dead. Yes the mastermind is now dead as well, but it really doesn't make up for all that was lost on that date, so why exactly should I be celebrating?

Again, I am not saying what happened wasn't good for the country or good for the world, or that the people involved (the Seal team and especially the President) aren't worthy of major kudos. But forgive me if I don't dance along.

[The Straight Story]

21. were you here when reagan died, or steve irwin died?

Grave dancing, etc, were quite prevalent here. At least with osama we are dancing on the grave of someone who targeted innocent people for death.

I'd dance on hitler's grave and even piss on it. obl is not far behind him for me when it comes to being glad someone is dead.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

23. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

For me, there's a difference between being glad someone is dead and out and out celebrating.

Whenever the day comes when Dick Cheney has that last heart attack, I will not be sad. I will not shred a tear. I will not think that the world is any less for that man being gone. But even then, I don't know if it is a cause to celebrate. Death is...well....death. The end. All she wrote. If it was a good person who died, it is a time to mourn their loss. If it is a bad person who died, time to retrospect on a life gone awry. Or, if you are like me, hope against hope that perhaps in the last second he breathed his last breath, perhaps he felt remorse for all that he did and sought forgiveness for all those he hurt, and perhaps hope that those who he hurt had enough mercy to forgive.

[GaYellowDawg]

27. Hey, that's cool.

I understand your viewpoint.

I don't look at bin Ladin's death as something that makes up for his victims' deaths. Nothing will or ever could do that. I am celebrating the fact that he's not going to be responsible for any more of them.

[bvar22]

25. Grave Dancing, High Fives, and Victory Laps are not cool.

""There is something deeply wrong with this picture. By celebrating death, even of someone as evil as bin Laden, we let our worst impulses trump what Abraham Lincoln called “the better angels of our nature.” We look petty, juvenile, and small. And we should all be worried about that."

http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2011/0502/Celebrating-Osama-bin-Laden-s-death-is-anti-American-and-not-very-biblical

Standards for Acceptable Social Behavior is what culture and civilization is ALL about.
No one is telling anybody how to "feel".
Adults have a responsibility to point out to children what passes for acceptable adult behavior.
That is what Parenting is.
Without these standards,
we turn into a nation of Eric Cartmans.

[cali]

26. hear, hear.

it makes my stomach twist into a knot. I know people think it's being self-righteous, but it's not that. It just creeps me out.

[GaYellowDawg]

29. Well...

It's awfully condescending to pretend that you're the adult, lecturing to children. That is a false premise. You are an adult who is attempting to forward your own viewpoint by casting others as children - which is actually quite an adolescent thing to do. If you disagree, then disagree - but part of the original post was about being annoyed that some people feel they have to set themselves on a pedestal and lecture to others about their responses.

One thing that you're apparently missing from your own parenting handbook is this: you have a responsibility to tell your children that your family's rules, while they may be the best for your family, do not necessarily apply to society as a whole. While it is true that a society that lacks parenting standards turns into a nation of "Eric Cartmans", it does not necessarily follow that a society that does not strictly conform to your parenting standards turns into a nation of "Eric Cartmans." So please save the lectures - your personal position on this issue does not elevate you to "the adult in the room" status.

[bvar22]

31. Do you remember when the NFL restricted End Zone celebrations?

Do you know WHY they did that?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Answer:
Because those doing it looked like a bunch of self-absorbed spoiled children,
and it reflected badly on the whole sport.

[GaYellowDawg]

32. Of course...

... because unsportsmanlike conduct is a great analogy for 9/11. :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[bvar22]

41. Unsportsmanlike conduct is NOT a great analogy for 9/11.

However, it is a suitable application for public Grave Dancing and Victory Laps
over the killing of Bin Laden.

"There is something deeply wrong with this picture. By celebrating death, even of someone as evil as bin Laden, we let our worst impulses trump what Abraham Lincoln called “the better angels of our nature.” We look petty, juvenile, and small. And we should all be worried about that."

http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2011/0502/Celebrating-Osama-bin-Laden-s-death-is-anti-American-and-not-very-biblical

[GaYellowDawg]

42. Nor is it a suitable application in this instance.

It doesn't change anyone's lives when a football player dances in the endzone. It doesn't improve anyone's lives when endzone dancing is stopped. When bin Ladin was killed, the world got a little safer. And in my opinion, that's worth celebrating. Listen, I honestly don't mind if you don't feel the same way, or if you think that celebrating is in bad taste - what I object to is when someone tells me how I should behave in this instance.

And a)I don't care what the Christian Science Monitor says and b)if Lincoln had seen someone kill over 3,000 noncombatants, he might very well have felt good about that person's death, too. Certainly, his phrase was taken way out of context, as he was using it to try to appeal to people's better natures and not go to war in the first place, which makes that particular appeal to authority both misplaced and inaccurate.

[Warren DeMontague]

34. No.

Because only overgrown adolescents watch professional football in the first place.

Perhaps you should be out getting your OWN exercise, there, junior.

[Warren DeMontague]

33. Fuck Eric Cartman.

Beavis and Butthead are far funnier.

[zappaman]

28. K & R! n/t

[Wait Wut]

30. What can I say?

You make me feel like dancing!

That was fantastic.

[U4ikLefty]

35. So it was okay to dance when Reagan died?

Can't wait for Bushie.

[GaYellowDawg]

37. Don't put words into my mouth. I didn't say anything about Reagan.

That is a different matter altogether, and it is irrelevant to this conversation.

[krabigirl]

36. Yes, people should be able to react however they want to an event like this.

[Raine]

38. Agree nt

:thumbsup:

[readmoreoften]

39. So thumbs up for grave dancing. Thumbs down for showing photos.

Because--pearl-clutch--we just aren't those kind of people.

[inna]

40. happy gravedancing then, i hope it makes you feel better

[madmom]

43. Years ago I lost a grandfather that I was very close too. I went through all

the motions of grief without shedding a tear, I've never been one to show much emotion in public, I prefer to do it alone. My then SO couldn't leave it alone.He picked at me and needled me until he made me cry, then said "now don't you feel better for it?" Well I didn't feel better, all I felt and still feel it hatred toward him for his callousness toward my feelings. It did nothing for my grief over my grandfather, how could SO truly know how I felt, but because it made HIM feel better, he thought he was right.To this day I hate him for the way he made me feel about my emotions toward my grandfather.

People feel how they feel, period, let it go!

[GaYellowDawg]

44. Just to make it clear...

What your SO did - telling you how to react and forcing his viewpoint on you - was wrong. That was the gist of the OP; that people shouldn't tell me how to feel or to act in this instance. Therefore, I 100% agree with your point.

[Puglover]

45. Serious question.

And know I'm glad the SOB is dead.

Remember when the contractors were burned on the bridge in Fallujah. And all of the Iraqis were fist pumping that? Was that okay in your opinion? After all the contractors were part of a force of invaders that killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. And invaded their country under false pretenses.

IMO it isn't about pretending to have decorum over OSBL's death. It's respecting the 100's of thousands of people that died because of that bastard by not treating it like a college football victory.

That said, those are MY thoughts. People can do what they want to do.

On edit:add "because of that bastard"