Sea burial of Osama bin Laden breaks sharia law, say Muslim scholars

[oberliner]

Excerpt:

Dr Saud al-Fanisan, former dean of the faculty of sharia law in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, said that if a body was buried at sea it should be protected from fish. In the words of alislam.org, the body should be lowered into the water "in a vessel of clay or with a weight tied to its feet".

Mohammed al-Qubaisi, Dubai's grand mufti, said of Bin Laden's burial: "They can say they buried him at sea, but they cannot say they did it according to Islam. Sea burials are permissible for Muslims in extraordinary circumstances. This is not one of them."

Abdul-Sattar al-Janabi, who preaches at Baghdad's Abu Hanifa mosque, said: "What was done by the Americans is forbidden by Islam and might provoke some Muslims. It is not acceptable and it is almost a crime to throw the body of a Muslim man into the sea. The body of Bin Laden should have been handed over to his family to look for a country to bury him."

The radical Lebanon-based cleric Omar Bakri Mohammed said: "The Americans want to humiliate Muslims through this burial, and I don't think this is in the interest of the US administration."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/sea-burial-osama-bin-laden

[Drale]

1. I talked to a devout muslim early

and he said normally, no matter what a person has done, they deserve a "proper" burial, but in this case, he said he doesn't give a damn what they did with the body because that man was as evil as Halter.

[napi21]

2. To that I say TS! Americans captured by muslims are never given the

consideration of US law nor did they ever care what their religion was. Had OBL been killed by aome Muslim, perhapse they would have considered sharia law, but that's not what happened. Deal with it!

[Hannah Bell]

23. beside the point. media touted the burial as being according to islamic tradition.

i don't care how they bury him, but the lies grate.

[Skidmore]

35. What lies?

[tekisui]

54. That the sea burial was in accord with Islamic law or tradition.

[eridani]

73. I think the bone of contention would be what "extraordinary circumstance" means n/t

[Bluebear]

77. .

[sharp_stick]

3. Ah shucks

doesn't that just suck?

It wouldn't matter what they did with the bloated corpse of that prick it would probably "break sharia law" in the minds of the assholes that follow it.

[Fuddnik]

4. Shoulda buried him under a hawg farm in North Carolina.

He's kinda dead, so I'm sure he don't care.

[Dawson Leery]

5. We should not be following the oppressive system of Sharia Law

or any other religious law. The United States does NOT operate under religious law.

[treestar]

6. that's going to be something people can always disagree about

We apparently looked at it and used Muslim customs. So there are likely experts who will disagree with these experts.

[JuniperLea]

7. I guess people forget America doesn't operate under ANY religious law...

That's how the founding fathers wanted it, that is how it is, and I hope to God that is how it always stays.

[kick-ass-bob]

8. People will find whatever they are looking to find.

We should all know that by now. (Birthers, faux-religious leaders, etc)

If they want it to break tradition/law, then they will find evidence that it was.
If they don't want it to, then they will find evidence that it was done correctly.

[TwilightGardener]

9. Aw, well. His head's not on a pike and he's not being dragged through the streets.

Maybe they should shut up.

[shireen]

10. "with a weight tied to its feet"

his body was weighed down.

but it will still become fish food ...

[TwilightGardener]

12. Yep, plenty o' protein-eating scavengers down there at the bottom.

Marine biology not their strong suit, perhaps.

[JaneQPublic]

11. No way was Bin Laden going to get a grave on ground

In no time it would become a sacred monument, with people flocking to it like Mecca.

U.S. did exactly the right thing.

[EFerrari]

13. Shouldn't we be more concerned with the Geneva Conventions

than with sharia law? Or, at least as concerned?

A state of war, after all, was the assumption of his execution, right?

[Abq_Sarah]

18. Geneva conventions?

I wasn't aware Osama was a signatory.

[EFerrari]

27. So, you are fine with limiting our response to the standard of mass murderers?

Really?

[Abq_Sarah]

30. Did you expect a trial?

Was SEAL team 6 going to arrest poor little Osama and mirandize him?

Were they going to haul him back to he USA and give him a civilian trial?

Since the evidence that was used to find and kill him involved intelligence obtained from detainees, how do you think that would have gone?

The bastard is dead, I'm glad of it and I don't think he "deserved" a trial by anything other than live fire.

[EFerrari]

31. So, I'll take that as a "yes". n/t

[Poboy]

40. I love all the bluster and macho bullshit to avoid answering the question.

[Abq_Sarah]

49. And I love all the angst and tears

Over a fucking terrorist.

[EFerrari]

55. There is no angst and tears here for a fucking terrorist.

In any case, the terrorist is gone. How our government does business is still with us.

[malaise]

26. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Conventions be damned :sarcasm:

[EFerrari]

28. I've yet to see anybody even ask.

:wtf:

[KathyVet]

52. Under what section of the Conventions

Would Osama have fit?

[EFerrari]

53. Burial of the dead.

I'm not a lawyer and don't know the First Convention well. But so far, under 1.2.17, and 1.2.20. 17 deals with the burial of the dead in general and on land, and 20 deals with burial at sea.

17 stresses the importance of the ability to find the body after hostilities so, taking a body out to sea for the express purpose of obscuring its resting place seems to be at a minimum, not in the spirit or the letter of Article 17.

[RainDog]

14. displacement - focusing on the burial as a way to stir support

because the reality is the radical clerics are not the ones who are creating positive changes in the Arab world - it's the people who were able to obtain an education and the skills needed to modernize infrastructure in the Arab world who have led the current movements toward democracy.

as we see in the U.S., fundamentalist religious groups are regressive by their very natures, by their inability to respond to the world as it is and not how they wish they could force it to be.

their time is over - both here and abroad.

[Change Happens]

15. It is actually the opposite: Moslim traditions call for immediate burial, within the day, if you

are at sea, and you know you can't make it to land soon enough, there is a proper burial at sea! Happens all the time...

[Vinnie From Indy]

16. So is mass murder

I think the mass murder thing takes precedence.

[liberal N proud]

17. How many from the World Trade Center were never recovered?

Did they get a proper burial?

[undeterred]

19. The people who jumped from the WTC didn't get a proper burial either.

[Freddie Stubbs]

20. I would have wrapped his body in bacon and fed it to hungry dogs

[eleny]

21. Well, Mohammed al-Qubaisi....

[Hannah Bell]

22. wait, wait, DUers told me it was islamic...

[maddezmom]

25. perhaps there is a difference of opinion among Scholars?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1011947
from here:
http://www.al-islam.org/laws/burial.html

[EC]

24. I read that many in his family didn't want him

and that many countries didn't want him buried there. I'm guessing they didn't want a tomb erected and followers going to burial site for ceremonies etc.

[Tarheel_Dem]

29. Who really gives a fuck? Are you sure you want to play the role of Osama's PR agent here?

Enough with the AQ propaganda. :thumbsdown:

[JCMach1]

32. The US is not under Sharia law...

Nor bound to give it someone who didn't really follow it...

[LanternWaste]

33. Who's to say this protocol was not indeed adhered to?

"or with a weight tied to its feet"...."

Who's to say this protocol was not indeed adhered to?

[hedgehog]

62. Agrred, I would assume the procedure for burial at sea includes weighting the body.

[KittyWampus]

34. key word "RADICAL" cleric

[Arugula Latte]

36. Is mass murder permittable under Sharia law?

Sheesh.

[EFerrari]

42. "Two wrongs don't make a right but, three do."

I think that's "Deteriorata".

[yardwork]

37. I think that the U.S. handled this well.

There is no way that we could have handed his body over to his family. The man is a global terrorist and his family would have used his body and his burial to stir up trouble. We can't afford that risk.

Burying him at sea, while releasing details about how respect was shown to his body and that Muslim rites were followed, was the best approach. It may not adhere to Sharia law but the U.S. is not ruled by sharia law. We have no obligation to adhere to sharia law, and in this case it would have been very unwise.

[GaYellowDawg]

38. You know what? FUCK them.

Fuck Dr. Saud, and fuck grand fucking mafti al-Qubaisi, fuck al-Janabi and his Abu Hanifa mosque, and fuck Omar Bakri Mohammed. What kind of funeral rites did the victims of 9/11 have? I personally think we should have cremated bin Ladin, mixed his ashes into ceramic, made a toilet out of him, and put it at ground zero and charged a dollar a piss, with the proceeds going to the families of the 9/11 victims.

[smirkymonkey]

46. Touche!

:rofl:

[guitar man]

60. Ok

You win the internets! :toast: :spray:

[Union Scribe]

69. Pretty much.

[somone]

70. Amen

[pitohui]

39. who the hell cares, it's a done deed anyway

the creep is dead and fish are eating him, he got almost ten years of life the 9/11 victims didn't get, thanks to bush giving him a 3 week headstart to get out of afghanistan

we come to learn that all the excuses bush etc. made for not going into pakistan and getting bin laden were just that, excuses, we could have done this at any time in this decade

i remember kerry running on the platform of going after bin laden, the effwits who re elected bush have only themselves to blame that bin laden enjoyed years of extra life...

i'm glad obama decided to stop playing nice and just went in and got the bastard, it's high time

as for dis-info that this millionaire was living in a cave, i believe it was bush himself that started the dis info campaign with his cracks abt not wanting to bomb a camel in a cave...bush let bin laden get away and pakistan harbored this terrorist for all these years...i suppose obama had to cut some deal w. pakistan but in my humble view they should pay some sort of price, afghanistan paid a pretty high price for giving bin laden a home after the cole bombing and they only hosted bin laden for 5 years...not nearly 10 year like pakistan has done!

[Uncle Joe]

41. I imagine they weighed him down and these were extraordinary circumstances.

Thanks for the thread, oberliner.

[Ikonoklast]

43. I can probably dig up a dozen 'scholars' that say the exact opposite.

Wonder what these 'scholars' say about the mass murder of innocent people, according to their religious laws?

[REP]

44. Burning people alive by flying airplanes into their office building is okay though?

Who gives a fuck. Really. Who. Gives. a. Fuck.

[Buns_of_Fire]

45. He got a far more dignified burial than I would have given him. I'll leave it at that. nt

[pintobean]

47. The fish don't care. A meal is a meal. n/t

[FormerDittoHead]

48. I only want to kick this because there are so many here that I agree with!

My "favorite" (in quotes because they're all winners!) has been that he should have turned his head into a "fleshlight" for horses.

Good riddance.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

50. WGAS WGAF

Anyone who thinks he deserved a proper burial in the name of their religion has low fucking standards.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

51. How's that going to play in "Roseanne" country?

My guess is that Roseanne and Dan Connor ordered a pizza and a six pack and made the beast with two backs all night long.

I don't imagine a great many Americans are "sharia law" scholars.

This motherfucker orchestrated the death of 3000+ Americans and spent a decade sending out mix tapes to crow about it.

FUCK his dead ass, and if "sharia law" has had a ripple in the pond, I know that somehow I will survive.

[SoCalDem]

56. Boo hoo..cry us a river n.t

[cliffordu]

57. So does killing children and women. Tough fucking shit.

Lesson:

Murder our civilians and we will fucking kill you for it, wrap you in bacon and deep six your bacon wrapped ass.....

[Shagbark Hickory]

58. Yeah I think this guy lost his right to be a Muslim when he became a mass murderer.

I think they probably chained his ankles to concrete blocks and fed him to the fishes.

[Renew Deal]

59. If they wanted to humiliate people, they would have put his head on a pike

And Obama would have done a press conference with it. I think dropping him in the ocean was rather mild.

[mitchtv]

63. what head?

the head didn't make it , I believe

[LynneSin]

61. Being burned to death in a firey building isn't a proper burial either

nuff said.

[guitar man]

64. Tough shit

He got a damn sight better than what he deserved. Fuck him :grr:

[xmas74]

65. A Jordanian coworker said that

his burial at sea was "too good for him". He said that no Middle Eastern countries would want his remains for fear that a shrine would be built on their lands.

He has said in the past that he felt the U.S. stuck its nose into too many places but in this case we didn't do it fast enough. He also said that he has no sympathy for someone who does what bin Laden did.

[admonish]

66. I believe the illusion of respect is necessary

but only because of the blowback (which will still be prevalent) caused by explicit disrespect. I also believe the celebrations should be toned down for the same reason. I agree there will always be the hardcore who won't accept either but like the "independent voter" we're preaching to the middle!

[SidDithers]

72. Don't go talking sense. This is DU!...

Welcome, btw :hi:

Sid

[krispos42]

67. If we wanted to humiliate his body...

...we would have pissed and shit on it, dragged it on a rope through Manhattan, then chopped it up and fed it to stray dogs and pigs.

[Liquorice]

68. Once a person engages in terrorism and murders innocent people,

he doesn't deserve any respect. I doubt anyone cares whether his body was protected from fish or not. He certainly didn't care about all those innocent people he had murdered, some of whose bodies were never even found.

[backscatter712]

71. The burial at sea is a lot kinder than I would have been...

I would started by wrapping his body in bacon, then having it defiled in every way possible.

End it by having him devoured by pigs, literally turning bin Laden into shit.

[Chris_Texas]

74. Oh well.

[Moral_Imagination]

75. So this wasn't an extraordinary circumstance?

"Sea burials are permissible for Muslims in extraordinary circumstances."

Do you not read your own drivel?

[oberliner]

76. It refers to when the death takes place on a ship

From Huffington Post:

Although there appears to be some room for debate over the burial – as with many issues within the faith – a wide range of senior Islamic scholars interpreted it as a humiliating disregard for the standard Muslim practice of placing the body in a grave with the head pointed toward the holy city of Mecca.

Sea burials can be allowed, they said, but only in special cases where the death occurred aboard a ship.

Bin Laden's burial at sea "runs contrary to the principles of Islamic laws, religious values and humanitarian customs," said Sheik Ahmed al-Tayeb, the grand Imam of Cairo's al-Azhar mosque, Sunni Islam's highest seat of learning.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-sea-burial-muslim-scholars_n_856315.html