For LGBT DUers, when does it get better?

[Prism]

We need to have a serious discussion about the way DU is administered in regards to its gay community. It has been a conversation that has been stifled, silenced, and disappeared without any recourse, any fairness, or any valued gay perspective in the way our community is bullied, hammered, and held down for the entertainment and brutal pleasure of people who have enjoyed gay-baiting and queer-bashing on DU for far too long.

Here are some questions for the admins.

Do the admins ever wonder why LGBT threads look like swiss cheese?

Why are pro-equality posts inflammatory, but broad scale attacks on the LGBT community acceptable, reasoned disagreement?

Why are posters who have a history of years of trolling LGBT topics allowed to remain, but LGBT posters who get just a tiny bit too heated in defending their very lives and equality given far less allowance and TSed at the drop of a hat?

How homophobic does someone have to be to earn an actual sanction or tomb stoning? I think I saw a homophobe TSed once for, literally, calling gay men pedophiles. That's apparently as extreme as it needs to be.

Is bumper stickerism the official DU policy for LGBT issues? For example, is it official policy that as long as a poster says "I support equality" and then goes on to post scores, if not hundreds, of negative posts directed at the LGBT community, their bumper sticker provides sufficient immunity to sanction? Can I say "I love Martians!" and then never say a single positive thing about them and still be considered pro-Martian in the eyes of DU's administrators?

Will LGBTers ever be ably represented in the adminning/moderating aspect of the site? We have mods and admins who will go to the mat on various issues and the President, but we have no one at all like that on LGBT issues. In fact, we have straight moderators and admins going to great lengths to let gay people know what is and is not homophobic. Will that ever change, or are you happy with that state of affairs?

DU has a reputation online for being very hostile to LGBT people. The LGBT population on DU has plummeted in the past two years. LGBT posters have been TSed with a ruthlessness I cannot honestly say has been applied to any other group. The GLBT forum is a shadow of what it once was.

Do the admins ever engage in self-reflection here, on how their privilege and perspective colors this state of affairs, contributes to the hostility, and takes part in a culture that makes LGBT people feel like outcasted crap?

Does it get better for LGBTers on DU, or is this the best the admins are ever going to offer? This high grade hostility to our lives and equality?

What say you?

[Skinner]

1. This is a discussion that I am interested in having.

I understand that many of our LGBT members do not feel welcome or respected, and that bothers me very much. I understand that too often DU can be a hostile and unfriendly place and I am committed to doing whatever I can to change that, but I do not believe that Democratic Underground tolerates bigotry or bigots. I am hopeful that a good-faith discussion can help me understand why some people think Democratic Underground tolerates bigotry, while helping DU members better understand how the site is moderated and administered.

If you or anyone else is interested in having a good-faith discussion with me -- with the goal of better understanding each other and working together to make Democratic Underground a more welcoming place, where we begin with the basic assumption that everyone involved is acting in good faith and wants DU to be both free of bigotry AND open to the full range of progressive opinion, and where we are all willing to question our own basic attitudes and assumptions -- then I would be very enthusiastic about having that discussion.

But I am not interested in having a discussion if the goal is to prove that the administrators or moderators of Democratic Underground are anti-gay bigots, clueless, or worse. I think such a discussion would do a disservice to everyone involved, and would not get us any closer to understanding each other or finding some sort of resolution.

I understand that many DU members may not be in the mindset to have a good-faith discussion like the one I am proposing. If that is the case, then maybe now isn't the time to hash this out. Just let me know. But if there is interest, then I think it is a discussion that should occur outside the ATA forum so more DUers -- especially LGBT DUers -- could participate. I think the GLBT forum would be the obvious place to do it.

I hope this post will be taken in the spirit it is intended. Feel free to discuss this proposal with any other DUers who you think might be interested. If you think it is worth doing, come back to this thread and let me know.

[Prism]

2. It would very much depend on the constraints

I would be very interested in having a discussion that would hopefully provide more light than heat. I'm sure others would also like to make plain the issues facing the community and how our lives and politics are treated.

However.

What kind of constraints would be placed on such a discussion? Honesty can only be approached when everyone is willing to lay incidents and behaviors on the table with the understanding they will not be censored or sanctioned for doing so. While I wouldn't run through such a thread screaming "Homophobe!" I would also find it very difficult to move forward with an honest conversation if we're not allowed to question, for example, why a dozen LGBT posters were TSed in one 48 hour period. That is just one, infamous, example that has gone a great distance in creating an atmosphere of hostility and (yes) fear within DU's LGBT community.

If something like that incident cannot be discussed, even in as dispassionate a way as possible, then we'd be spinning our wheels rather than examining where the treatment and presence of the LGBT community on DU has gone wrong.

[Skinner]

3. I don't think constraints like that are necessary.

As long as everyone is participating in a good-faith way, as I described in my earlier post, then I don't think there is any need to put limits on the content of the discussion.

[Prism]

4. I would be very interested in the discussion

And I know many others would be as well. If all the parties enter it in good faith and attempt to approach the discussion with dispassionate views, explanations, and examples, I think quite a bit could be accomplished. At the very least, an exchange of insights and approaches of both the admins, mods, and the LGBT membership might provide enough new information to alter the current atmosphere for the better.

I think it should go forward and hope multiple mods and admins will participate.

(Sorry for the delay in response. Work emergency = 14 hours days this weekend).

[Skinner]

5. I'm glad.

Now here's the downer: I've got two VERY busy weeks coming up. We've got a mod switch this week (and many related changes), and a fund drive next week. There is a chance I might be able to fit it in during the fund drive week, but I'm not really sure.

I suspect this would likely be an ongoing, multi-day thing.

[Prism]

6. Whenever it can be given attention is good.

I think having a little bit of time for people to think about what they may want to say would be a good thing, and having a discussion when people can give it thoughtful attention rather than quick, in the moment posts would be more productive. So, when DU slows down a bit and everyone can settle in for a calm, unhurried discussion is the best possible course.