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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 09:58 PM
Original message
An Incredible Acomplishment!
A Democratic President and Congressional super-majority were unable to win what two-thirds of Americans want - Medicare for all.

I gotta agree, it's amazing.

Quite something.
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timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. Unprecedented! B+!
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. Democrats dont have a super majority (nt)
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. +10,000
Ding, ding!

We have a winner!


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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. Yes, They Do
60 in the Senate.
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. So when does a "Congressional Super Majority" only include the Senate?
bi-cameral
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. A Super-Majority Is Enough Votes To Be Unstoppable
Edited on Wed Dec-23-09 10:37 PM by MannyGoldstein
Happens to be the same as a simple majority in the House.

So, we have a super-majority in Congress. Both houses.
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #21
33. 58 Dems, 40 Republicans, 2 Independents

Not a Super-Majority.

Though it would be nice.



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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #33
42. Exactly. NOT a supermajority. For that, it would require 60 actual Democrats
Even then, it would mean they all would have to follow the direction of the majority leader everytime that it was asked of them. That isnt the way ANY Democrats operate, one only needs to look at this forum for the last few weeks.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 03:28 AM
Response to Reply #33
44. Not to be too nitpicky,
but I think it's actually 58 Dems, 40 Repubs, 1 independent and 1 self serving scumbag jackass.
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. I couldn't disagree

good assessment


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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #17
43. There are 58 Democrats in the senate, 40 Republicans, 1 Socialist and 1 Independant
Nice try though
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. All the while fighting corporate involvement and several obstructionist
with in the majority party and a totally obstructionist minority.
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andyrowe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. Here here!
I made a video to express this exact sentiment. Linked in my sig.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. And It's A Great Video, Thanks! nt
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. That 1% wealth beats the 99% leftover change every time. nt
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. Three cheers for acting like a flaming ass hole!!
:woohoo:
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. Incredible, indeed. n/t

Kill the bill.


Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
9. "Congressional super-majority" = 67 n/t
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. + 10,000
Co - winner!

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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Try Again.
Edited on Wed Dec-23-09 10:29 PM by MannyGoldstein
60 in the Senate. Undefined, I believe, in the House.

Or provide a link if I'm wrong, thanks.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. You really expected all 60 Senate Dems to vote lock-step with your health care fantasy?
:crazy:
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Are You Changing The Subject?
Why?
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. No change of subject. OP called it a "Congressional Super Majority"
Not a Senate super majority.


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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. And Mate.
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Lieberman, Sanders are 2 independents, 58 Dems and 40 Pukes
Explain to me how that is a Super Majority for the Democrats?






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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. Not. You said the Dems should be able to ram through whatever they/you want since they had POTUS
and 60 Senators. That assumes the Dems are all unified behind what they/you want.
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Garam_Masala Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #18
35. They just did! eom
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Reality. Not fantasy.
Viva la difference.
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fadedrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #18
37. My fantasy
My fantasy goes like this - Howard Dean, the Woodsman, arrives just in time to save Miss Congress and Grandma (that's us) from the big bad wolf (private insurance companies). The clueless mom who sent out Miss Congress would have to be the President, who seemed unaware of the danger...

Fantasy couldn't happen. Spies from Hartford and Omaha started rumor that Woodsman was irrational....so no one listened.

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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
10. Lame whinery.
Do you have a link to that 2/3 poll?
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
13. 2/3 of Americans want medicare for all? Please gimme a link. I didn't know that.
Thank you in advance :hi:
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. See
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. "two experiments with citizen juries"
Luntz would be proud.

Interesting methodology but hardly enough evidence to claim that 2/3 of the public actually supports medicare for all.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. So... Do We Have A Super-Majority?
I'm on the edge of my chair.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. Having trouble keeping up?
I'm not challenging your definition of "super majority" ... though I would call it a "filibuster proof" Democratic majority rather than a "super majority" which typically means 2/3 of the chamber (as is necessary to override vetos, ratify treaties, removal by impeachment, etc).
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. 58 Dems, 40 Pukes, 2 Independents
Sure doesn't look like one to me.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. A super majority is two thirds of the Senate
It is required to override a veto, change the Senate rules, etc. That is a super majority. You are focusing on a three-fifths majority required for cloture.



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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
14. Given that the United States is a Constitutional Republic
and not a democracy

and that the Democrats do not have a super majority, as you claim.

I would agree (without your sarcasm) that it is an incredible accomplishment.

Totally Fantastic!

The U.S. Constitution prevails, we are a land of laws, and I love my country.








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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. Do you know what a democracy is?
Majority rule. Either directly by the people or by elected representative.

Been a while since I heard that crusty RW talking point.
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Yes. But you don't.
A democracy means that if the other 9 people decide, they can eat the 10th person.

See ancient Greece, the first democracy.

The difference is that we have a Constitution to protect the 10th person.

Crucial difference there.

We live in a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy.

And I am a Democrat.




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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #32
39. LOL
A constitutional republic is a type of democracy, Einstein.
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #39
46. Yeah, Lots of Laughs
Edited on Thu Dec-24-09 11:14 PM by BeatleBoot
at you, poo.


Let me know when you can wrap your head around it all.


:rofl:




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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 03:35 AM
Original message
A land of laws?
OMG, we started the war crimes prosecutions and I missed it!?!!!
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #14
45. A land of laws?
OMG, we started the war crimes prosecutions and I missed it!?!!!
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
28. Meh... unrecommend
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AVID Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
38. Keep working - we are on our way! (PASS THE BILL)
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ThePhilosopher04 Donating Member (435 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
40. What's even more amazing...
is they're doing the bidding of the Insurance Industry while Republicans sit back, laugh and pretend to oppose the legislation...Dems will take all the heat when this thing blows up in all of our collective faces and Republicans will ride in on their white horses...they know Dems have no spine and all they have to do is obstruct and the Dems will cave...incompetence on the highest order if you ask me - or corruption, take your pick.
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Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
41. Amazing will be if they keep what they have in 2010
Like it or not, the Democrats--House, Senate and Whitehouse--are all in the same boat. All of the Executive Branch failures and all of the Legislative Branch failures are going to be lumped together.

Either they get something meaningful done or the super-majority or near-super-majority argument will be moot.
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