I am for single payer, but I will accept this bill as a start.

[RBInMaine]

I am an ardent single payer supporter, but it can't happen now. Reality. I'm for a public option, but it can't happen now. Reality. Right Wing Slime RePUKES can eat shitburgers for Christmas for all I care, and passing a health bill that makes a start on the issue is a stake in their cold right wing hearts and a START on healthcare reform. Much more needs to be done, and other pieces can be taken up later. But I see the big picture here. And it WILL pass. And it should. Here is what it does, imperfect as it is.

-- Extend coverage to 31 million Americans, the largest expansion of coverage since the creation of Medicare.

-- Ensure that you can choose your own doctor.

-- Finally stop insurance companies from denying coverage due to a pre-existing condition.

-- Make sure you will never be charged exorbitant premiums on the basis of your age, health, or gender.

-- Guarantee you will never lose your coverage just because you get sick or injured.

-- Protect you from outrageous out-of-pocket expenditures by establishing lifetime and annual limits.

-- Allow young people to stay on their parents' coverage until they're 26 years old.

-- Create health insurance exchanges, or "one-stop shops" for individuals purchasing insurance, where insurance companies are forced to compete for new customers.

-- Lower premiums for families, according to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office -- especially for struggling folks who will receive subsidies.

-- Help small businesses provide health care coverage to their employees with tax credits and by allowing them to purchase coverage through the exchanges.

-- Improve and strengthen Medicare by eliminating waste and fraud (without cutting basic benefits), beginning to close the Medicare Part D donut hole, and extending the life of the Medicare trust fund.

-- Create jobs by reining in costs -- fostering competition, reducing waste and inefficiency, and starting to reward doctors and hospitals for quality, not quantity, of care.

-- Cut the deficit by over $130 billion in the next 10 years.

[xultar]

1. I'm not happy about it either but we had to start some where. K&R

[NYC_SKP]

23. + 1 n/t

:P

Hey, Happy Holidaze!!!

[msongs]

2. sad to say the only prudent choice till we replace right wing dems with more progressives nt

[RBInMaine]

3. I agree, but vey tough to do in the conservative districts. Mods are the best we can get sometimes.

[still_one]

4. I don't think your argument is going to sway many who are opposed to the bill. The interesting

thing is those progressives that believe the bill should be killed do not provide a real alternative how we could get anything else through

Yes, they speculate that all kinds of pressure can be put on blue dogs and lieberman, and that somehow they would change their vote due to this so-called pressure, but I just don't see it, especially in the case of lieberman where the people in Connecticut have made it very clear they want a public option, and he has made it equally clear that he won't support it. If the people in his OWN state can't influence him, how could anyone else?

[RBInMaine]

8. You will NEVER sway Lieberman, Nelson, etc. And reconciliation won't happen. So, this is what has

to happen: Pass what amounts to about the Senate version, and give it a chance. Tweak it in the future, since, as Jay Rockefeller and Tom Harkin and others say, healthcare WILL be taken up annually from now on. If the exchanges don't work, get a real national movement going for Public Option and do that later as a separate bill. But, it will take an OVERWHELMING public movement to get that done, let alone single payer. So to far-left progressives I say, if you want it, ORGANIZE instead of screeching about what we CAN do now given all realities and variables.

[still_one]

11. Listen, I agree with you, I just don't think you will change those against it here on DU

Maybe if they can reflect on just how difficult it was to even get this bill through they would understand, but right now they have tunnel vision

[EVDebs]

5. Sign the petition at Yes We Still Can...don't kill the bill...go to conference committee !

http://yeswestillcan.org/

[brentspeak]

6. You've been doing the limbo since at least July

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=337268&mesg_id=337299

RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-15-09 02:22 PM

6. I love his (Kucinich') goal (of single-payer), but public option is the right step now. He should get onboard HR 3200.

Edited on Wed Jul-15-09 02:23 PM by RBInMaine
Medicare For All won't pass right now. Even public option is a HUGE step forward. He should get onboard it.

[RBInMaine]

10. And I still feel that way, but the Senate votes just aren't there for it. That isn't "limbo." It

is being real. Is Sanders "limboing" too? Gonna trash him next?

[brentspeak]

13. I understand Sanders' reasons for supporting the bill

I'm just hoping that voter anger doesn't sweep him out of office like it will a lot of Democrats. We can't afford to lose him, of all people.

[KrR]

14. You have just been attacked for being right and unwavering

How bizarre is that?

[Orsino]

30. Consistency, tempered with realism, is now some sort of fault?

Jesus.

[Avalux]

21. Maybe not everyone is set solidly in their hatred for Obama and opposition to HCR.

We don't all have that luxury. :eyes:

[niceypoo]

24. Hatred?

Shrill drama

[Avalux]

25. Hardly.

An observation.

[niceypoo]

26. Please, tell me your mind reading secrets

Do you boil blood in a turtle shell or something?

[CreekDog]

7. I agree with you 100%

:hi:

[KrR]

9. We still may be PO opt ins at the state level...

Also the exchanges will definately have a Not-for-profit option.

[RBInMaine]

12. Excellent point. Do public options at the state level.

[midnight]

15. This senate bill will not cover pre existing medical conditions for adults for

an additional four years.

They can discriminate with persons who have medical conditions via higher premiums....

This bill does not foster competition. That was going to happen via the public option, or medicare, but not with the exchanges.


This bill was to contain costs via the public option. Now they created the excise tax. It creates a greater burden on women, sick, elderly. So instead of creating competition, and reducing cost that way they are doing it on the backs of the weakest.....

Reducing out of pocket expenses with cap. I would like this to be an element of the bill that does what it says it's suppose to do..... But will have to research more on this.

With the way this bill is being leveraged on the backs of the sick, it cannot be sustained and will cost us dearly over the next ten years.

[depakid]

16. There are so many inaccuracies and distortions in that list it's hard to know where to begin

:eyes:

[kestrel91316]

17. K&R. You hit the nail on the head.

[WeDidIt]

18. The Exchange is a foot in the door for single payer

It's not anywhere near as far as a public option would have been, but get your foot in the door and push for more Progressive Democrats in the Senate.

If you can pile on a 62 or 63 seat Democratic caucus, joining a Republican filibuster on any legislation becomes a politically untenable position.

[eridani]

29. Teh Stupid! It burns!

Mandated private insurance is the surest way of preventing single payer that there could possibly be. Explain how giving a trillion dollars to useless parasites removes their hold over our health care.

[Clio the Leo]

19. thank you. NT

[EndElectoral]

20. Which bill, the House or Senate one, because they're significantly different

[WeDidIt]

22. It's pretty much a given at this point that the conference bill will pretty much be

the Senate version, with some minor tweaks.

[Odin2005]

27. Then you accept Fascist economics..

Forcing people to enrich the insurance companies.

[eridani]

28. What the FUCK do you mean "age"? Older people pay THREE TIMES as much

--for extremely shitty UNDERINSURANCE.

They will still refuse to cover pre-existing conditions--they'll just call it having a bad credit record.

AND WILL YOU PLEASE STOP WITH THIS UTTERLY STUPID IGNORANT LIE ABOUT CHOOSING YOUR OWN DOCTOR!!!! This shitty "reform," by keeping employer based insurance intact, absolutely forbids you to keep your doctor if your employer changes insurers, or if your insurer changes their preferred provide list.