One of the most frustrating things about the bush years

[griffi94]

was having to face the hypocrosy of the rw over what gwb said and then what he really meant. trying to have a debate with them was pointless because they're views and opinions weren't based on anything other than their base position which was "Bush=Good" if you happened to disagree with say taxcuts for the obscenly wealthy, then you just wanted to tear down bush, and what about all the bad things clinton did with his big and scary penis.

i don't remember how many posts i read here that decried the willful ignorance of people who intentionally closed their eyes to the blatant hypocrosy.
when dubya tried to sell burger flipping jobs as manufacturing jobs. the left howled in outrage. the rightwingers pointed out that in the true definition of the word it was manufacturing. when a spokesperson for dudyas administration said toxic sludge was good for fish because with toxic sludge keeping fish away from river banks they were less likely to be caught by fishermen.(i thought the fish/sludge statement was a joke, but i'll be damned if some rightwingers didn't start trying to use it as an honest to god valid position)

my problem with this little dust-up over whether or not obama campaigned on a po misses the broader point. whether he meant to or not(and i'll cut him some slack for now and wait and to see how he handles similar situations in the future)he sold one thing and delivered something other than what he sold,a po, and no mandate. the troubling thing is that he didn't take any responsability for the flip flop. he could have said he was sorry, he wanted it to be different but he didn't have the horses to pull if off. instead he tried to deflect legtimate criticism by dismissing his critics then trying to change what he meant versus what he said by weaseling some words and then he instantly forgave himself. it's not his place to forgive himself on behalf of progressives. each one of the progressives here has to decide if they can trust him and that's a personal choice. the most rigorous of the presidents supporters accuse the more skeptical among us of wanting to tear him down.
i don't think that's true at all, but i know there are many here like me who cringe at the hypocrosy. if the president wants our support he needs to deliver when can, be honest with us when he can't and most of all stop moving the goal posts and then telling us that's where they were all the time.
misleading us is very unlikely to make us trust him.

[phleshdef]

1. He didn't "deliver" on anything because he doesn't write the bill and pass it through the Senate.

As for the whole "campaigned on a public option" fiasco, I'm waiting to see him clarify that statement. Obama isn't stupid. He wouldn't blatantly lie about something that there is 0 chance of getting away with. That would not be at all in line with the level of intelligence he has shown in the past, like him or dislike him, Obama is way smarter than that and everyone here damn well knows it. I believe he meant that he didn't promise the public option as part of his campaign, which would be correct. He certain advocated it but he didn't promise it, and thats a good thing because it would have been an impossible promise to deliver on considering the shit senate we are dealing with.

[griffi94]

2. see i thought being president he would

tap a dem senator into writing the bill he wanted...ya know like the gop did for dubya.

[phleshdef]

3. That would be the mark of an organized political party - Democrats don't work that way.

[griffi94]

6. then he should have said

he couldn't get a senator to write the bill he wanted instead of claiming that the po was only symbolic and now mandates were good. you can be pissed of at the progressives for noticing and speaking out on this flip flop or you can
work to make him more accountable.

[AuntPatsy]

4. would you honestly rather have someone in office that browbeats and threatens

those underneath him in order to push his own agenda and out out ignore anyone elses imput when making such important decisions?

[griffi94]

7. see i thought it was our agenda

and i thought he supported it...because he said that he did.
as for brow beating...well that would be politics wouldn't it.

[AuntPatsy]

8. me too

[timeforpeace]

5. Get your point loud and clear. It's happening again but this time with us and Obama.