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Lionessa Donating Member (842 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 12:41 PM
Original message
Critical thought gone to the dogs?
Okay this is in response to the couple of threads out there touting the blacks dedication to Democratic presidents, such as this one http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Very simply, if one looks critically at the results blacks have (not) achieved under Democratic or any other president for that matter, then why would ANYONE want to emulate their methods and manners of dedication?

Seriously. I don't want to become a person with those limited and skewed lives, high poverty, high crime, little chance to advance educationally or otherwise, unfair imprisonments (either not guilty and/or longer, harsher sentences than others), primary targets of the mortgage scam industry of the 2000s, extremely high under & un-employment... can you think of more? I'm sure there is more. I know for a fact that blacks are yet to be fully equal in this country, like women only much worse.

Yeah, I don't want their results, so I'm not going to emulate their support for a completely disappointing presidency.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. Fairly
"Yeah, I don't want their results, so I'm not going to emulate their support for a completely disappointing presidency."

...certain that blacks aren't interested in pathetic opinions about them.

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Lionessa Donating Member (842 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. So then who's touting their foolishness? Set it out there, and opinions will happen.
Edited on Sat Dec-10-11 12:48 PM by Lionessa
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Probably
"So then who's touting their foolishness? Set it out there, and opinions will happen."

...the racists!

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Lionessa Donating Member (842 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. What? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that racists are touting
blacks being irrationally dedicated to a president and a party?

I'll await your answer before I proceed, because I don't think that's what you meant, even though that's what you typed.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. No,
Edited on Sat Dec-10-11 01:01 PM by ProSense
What? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that racists are touting
blacks being irrationally dedicated to a president and a party?

...I'm saying that typically it's the racists who are the ones overly concerned about blacks supporting the Democratic Party.

I'll await your answer before I proceed, because I don't think that's what you meant, even though that's what you typed.

From where: the bottom of the cliff?



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Lionessa Donating Member (842 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Wow, that's such a stretch. So anyone who notices that this tactic
has been less than successful for blacks, is a racist?

But somehow those that want to encourage and support and tout the status quo for blacks isn't racist?

I refer to my OP subject line.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Hey
Wow, that's such a stretch. So anyone who notices that this tactic has been less than successful for blacks, is a racist?

...we've been through a lot as a people: slavery, the civil rights movement, high unemployment and incarceration rates and welfare reform.

It's all black people's fault this country is fucked up. It's our fault that Republicans win and the status quo is maintained.

If only we had the sense, like some in the master race, to withdraw support from the Democratic Party.

Maybe we should be shipped back to Africa, Kenya!

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Lionessa Donating Member (842 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. You sure know how to skew what a person types.
I said nothing about blacks being at fault for anything. That's such a stretch. They'd have to have some kind of real power in this country to have screwed it up. And so far they've not managed to acquire that power, I think that's my point. Quietly and dutifully settling has not been all that successful for blacks as a whole. So why promote the concept? Seems instead we should be touting ideals and actions of those like MLK, Jr., Rosa Parks, and those that stood up and refused to accept the status quo, Dem or Repub, rather than touting the representation of their acceptance of the status quo.

I understand that this idea upsets your dedication to Obama, but yours is well known to be in the very realm of which I speak, so I don't think you'll understand this concept at all. Or if you do, you'll deny it.

Good luck, I guess you must be one of the luckier few blacks who have managed to squeeze some power out of the system that is stacked against your race. Good for you, but rue be me to forget those that are still being corralled in abject poverty and despair.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Hmmm?
Edited on Sat Dec-10-11 01:49 PM by ProSense
I said nothing about blacks being at fault for anything. That's such a stretch. They'd have to have some kind of real power in this country to have screwed it up. And so far they've not managed to acquire that power, I think that's my point. Quietly and dutifully settling has not been all that successful for blacks as a whole. So why promote the concept? Seems instead we should be touting ideals and actions of those like MLK, Jr., Rosa Parks, and those that stood up and refused to accept the status quo, Dem or Repub, rather than touting the representation of their acceptance of the status quo.


Irony and condescension. There is absolutely nothing wrong with stating that blacks will support the Democratic Party.

Maybe you should worry about your own status and vote. Where is your power? Seems you're looking to blacks to help change what you have no power to change, the "status quo" you described.

I love how people try to conflate supporting a political party with "touting ideals and actions of those like MLK, Jr., Rosa Parks."

It's absurd: like implying that MLK and Rosa Parks would advocate not voting or not voting for Democrats.

One can promote ideals, march, protest and not be stupid.




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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. So we're supposed to believe that you give a f*ck about black folks
and this is not yet another bow in your quiver (a la Jane Hamsher) to talk down to black folks, question our intelligence, while at the same time panting for our support for whatever bullshit "cause" you think we need to be supportive of?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
11. Evidently. In your house anyway.
We never even considered voting for Republicans.
When is the last time you worked for a Republican that didn't accuse you of being lazy??
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Lionessa Donating Member (842 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Republican isn't the only other choice. But it's not that I won't likely
Edited on Sat Dec-10-11 02:44 PM by Lionessa
vote Democratic as much as it's this push to be silent and submissive to the idea of a lesser of two evils rather than allowing for all the grumbling and complaining that lets the party know we're not happy and they need to move left.

As to your question. Right now. I work a part-time, temp job for folks that call me the token liberal, and they never harrass me about my work ethic, perhaps because I have a good one. Furthermore, even tho I'm way low man on the totem pole, I've quite well mouthed off politically, educated a few about a few things like the farce they're hearing about the post office situation, AND even verbally dressed down a supervisor who lies every time he speaks about anything, and yells at everyone, well except me anymore, and the general manager loves it. Been trying to get this supervisor to tone it down for a while.

However, I must also say, the general manager and owners knew me before they hired me and knew I'd be a good fit for the work required. AND I have worked for and had clients that were exactly as you suggest, Republicans with attitudes as you indicate. I just happen to be lucky this once, and for now, could change any day. That's the other thing about Repubs, they mind themselves so long as it suits them, but they can turn on you in a sec.
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. Sounded insidious to me
you seemed comfortable being called the 'token liberal' what does that mean?
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
13. I think you have it backwards. Or something, LOL
Did you miss US history in school? Black support for President Obama is responsible for all of it? Or even for Democrats? :rofl:

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Lionessa Donating Member (842 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I didn't say that. I said that he hasn't done anything exceptional for them or has
Edited on Sat Dec-10-11 02:52 PM by Lionessa
any other recent president, Dem or Repub in the recent past.

Twist all you want, it's a reflection on you, not me.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Getting elected?
Like being the first black President? Proving that a black person can go to the top? That's not exceptional?

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Lionessa Donating Member (842 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Oh my, so now I have to hear this BS on here, "since we have a
black president, all is great with the world, all racial injustice is proven to be at an end."

Sorry, but no, just becoming the first black president isn't in my opinion enough to say he's done anything to forward the lives or limit the injustices faced by blacks in the USA.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Are you black?
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
17. So what you're saying is...
Wait--WHAT are you saying??

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great white snark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. She's outraged that Blacks aren't outraged.
I guess her misery wants company.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
18. You referred to blacks as the "morons" of politics in that thread
Now, I know that Jane Hamsher has made a ton of fans here talking like that about the president's supporters, but you ain't Jane Hamnher. At least, I don't think you are.

I honestly don't even know how you reached some of the conclusions that you reached. I have my thoughts, but I'll keep them to myself. That somehow, it's the Democrats fault that there is high poverty, high crime etc. in the black community. Alot of it is self-inflicted misery. A lot of it is bad politics. But alot of it is racism.

Black people have fought like no other group for our rights and we are STILL fighting for them. We didn't have the right to vote, to learn how to read, to own property. People literally died for those rights and it took much pain and turmoil, but we got them. In freaking 2011 damn near 2012, blacks are still fighting tooth and nail for basic human decency. Every time you see the FBI stats that say that blacks are the victims of hate crimes more than ANY OTHER GROUP; every time you see reports that say that blacks are denied educational and economic advancements more than any other group; that blacks are denied presidential pardons more than any other group; that we are targeted by the vulture in the sub-prime mortgage abomination more than other group; that even highly educated blacks are denied opportunities more than any other group -- that's not on us. That is institutionalized, SYSTEMIC racism at work. And if there is one thing that America does and does well, it is racism.

But in light of this black folks have survived. We are STILL HERE. We are surviving and in many, MANY areas we are thriving. We are one of the most admired and emulated cultures on this entire planet. And we still support the Democrats because with all of the shit piled on our backs, we are and will not ever become stupid. Most blacks folks will be and vote Democratic until something drastic happens because we know that NOTHING will be done for us under Republicans. In all honesty, I would have to say that the second biggest voting block for black people after Democratic voters is non-voters. Black folks would mostly rather not vote at all than vote for a Republican. And I've had more than one conversation with a brother or sister that didn't vote telling them that they got exactly what they voted for so they'd best stop complaining.

So, if it bothers you so much that black people, with all of our ills, still support this president, then it's really a very good thing that most of don't give a shit.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. You don't understand
Edited on Sat Dec-10-11 06:13 PM by ProSense
"You referred to blacks as the 'morons' of politics in that thread"

We're not "smart" enough to support the fuckwit libertarian lunatics like Ron Paul.

After all, why the hell should we value our civil rights? Who needs them? Let's party like it's 1890!

It's amazing how many "smart" people are pushing this racist asshole. They'd rather sell the country down the river by hyping this regressive pig, than support a Democrat.

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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I know. Shit like this makes me want to break my keyboard in two
Is the OP a Ron Paul supporter and wants black people to support him too? 'Cause it ain't happening.

We are so damn stupid apparently we need a racist asshole as our savior because he agrees with a few things that white liberals agree with. We should just push the racist idiocy he inadvertently (but ever so frequently) spouts aside.

Sort of like how some here were absolutely CLAMORING for liberals/Dems to team up with the Tea Party when the tea party first came out. When black people said "uh, I don't think so" based on the blatant racism from the Tea Party, we were told that we were playing the race card and not "focusing on our similarities rather than our differences." Hell, one of the main folks touting this BS just had an appreciation thread on the home page with over 200 recs. And they wonder why none of us take this place seriously.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
21. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
24. Btw, I just noticed that your profile says that you are "hopefully temporarily homeless"
Edited on Sat Dec-10-11 06:37 PM by Number23
And you spelled both "hopefully" and "homeless" wrong.

Very simply, if one looks critically at the results blacks have (not) achieved under Democratic or any other president for that matter, then why would ANYONE want to emulate their methods and manners of dedication?

In what way do you feel that you are in a position to look down and scold black people? What qualifies you?
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
27. I don't understand... what are you trying to say?
That the democratic party and it's present president are not the best choice for black people?

Then who the heck is? The Pugs, a third party?

What are you saying?
Here is a very small list of 'differences' between the 2 parties.
http://www.diffen.com/difference/Democrat_vs_Republican

but you think blacks have chosen the wrong one?

well, I'm sure you misspoke, because you make no sense.
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-08-12 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
28. Wow. nt
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