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NY Mag: "When Did Liberals Become So Unreasonable?"

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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 01:35 PM
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NY Mag: "When Did Liberals Become So Unreasonable?"
There are any number of arguments about things Obama did wrong. Some of them are completely misplaced, like blaming Obama for compromises that senators forced him to make. Many of them demand Obama do something he cant do, like Maddows urging the administration to pass an energy bill through a special process called budget reconciliationa great-sounding idea except for the fact that its against the rules of the Senate. Others castigate Obama for doing something he did not actually do at all (i.e., Drew Westens attention-grabbing, anguished New York Times essay assailing Obama for signing a budget deal with cuts to Medicare, Social Security, and Medicaid that were not actually in the budget in question).

...

Some of the complaints are right, and despite being an Obama apologist, Ive made quite a few of them myself. (The debt-ceiling hostage negotiations drove me to distraction.) But I dont think any of the complaintsright, wrong, or otherwisereally explain why liberals are so depressed.

Here is my explanation: Liberals are dissatisfied with Obama because liberals, on the whole, are incapable of feeling satisfied with a Democratic president. They can be happy with the idea of a Democratic presidentindeed, dancing-in-the-streets deliriousbut not with the real thing. The various theories of disconsolate liberals all suffer from a failure to compare Obama with any plausible baseline. Instead they compare Obama with an imaginary presidenteither an imaginary Obama or a fantasy version of a past president.

So, what if we compare Obama with a real alternative? Not to Republicansthats too easybut to Democratic presidents as they lived and breathed?


http://nymag.com/news/politics/liberals-jonathan-chait-... /

Something everyone should read, and learn to understand why the knee-jerk reactions on the left--fed by Republican propaganda and our own versions of Fox News--are doing considerable damage to the liberal cause.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. When Republicans didn't listen to reason?
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. When did Republicans listen to reason? nt
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. 1953?
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Blue Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 01:37 PM
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2. Well, we are living in the Age of Unreason...
n/t
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. According to Gallop weekly gallop polls, liberal Democrats support Obama 80+
consistently. Is that unreasonable?

LoZoccolo posts the results every week.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. You're right, we do. But there's still a problem with a distinct subset of liberals.
The purity test brigade, basically, those determined to demand the moon, the stars, and the galaxy, and consider anything less a cop out, "cave," or half-measure. A group which is disproportionately represented in "left wing" media, I should note. It also makes an easy way for the right to propagandize some liberals into not voting.
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libinnyandia Donating Member (526 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. or get them to vote for a third party candidate.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. The media persists in confusing the "rank-n-file" left, with the "professional" left.
It's a mistake, but it's one they keep making. There's a great article that was posted here a couple of months back, and it was something to the effect of "The Narrators are Much Angrier Than Their Audience" (or something like that). It spoke to the fact that the "paid" left which includes highly paid teevee personalities, "journalists", columnists, bloggers, and other liberal elitist purist types get all the attention. Thus, the M$M think they speak for all of us, at least that's what they like to pretend.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
28. That subset of liberals would never identify as Democrat.
They would identify as either some third party, independent, or a non-voter.
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jeff47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. One can both "support" and be "disappointed by". They aren't mutually exclusive. (nt)
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. The poll is on job approval, not "support." 84% approve of Obama's job performance. nt
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. "Don't tell me that they're antisocial - somehow not antisocial enough"
-- The Tragically Hip
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apnu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 02:36 PM
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10. Dupe see here
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Having said that, this article is the flip side to David Frum's article, "When Did the GOP Lose Touch With Reality?", in the same publication, found here: http://nymag.com/news/politics/conservatives-david-frum... /

Both are interesting to read.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
11. I really hate being told how I feel...
Seems I'm in line with the 80% who approve of him this week... yet I'm being told how disgruntled I am. Curious.
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creon Donating Member (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 03:06 PM
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12. good essay
Chait is descrbing the feelings of some liberals.
Unfortunately, I do not see very many elected officials who are liberal/leftist enough. Perhaps, they never get on the ballot as the party selection process eliminates them as unelectable. Perhaps, they never try to get elected. Whatever the reason, peope who are 'liberal enough' are not in Congress.
So, I expect some of the 'left' ( The USA does not really have a left) to be disappointed. The 111th Congress did not pass far reaching reform.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
14. around the same time that conservatives became insufferable assholes
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. You assume there was a time when they weren't. nt
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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
15. dupe of a dumb article.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Actually, it's a very smart and accurate article.
I think you're mistaking "I don't like the conclusions" for "dumb."
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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. You're mistaken.
Edited on Tue Nov-22-11 07:51 PM by Vattel
It is dumb because it is so speculative. Who can take seriously sweeping generalizations about why liberals are so disappointed by Obama:

"Here is my explanation: Liberals are dissatisfied with Obama because liberals, on the whole, are incapable of feeling satisfied with a Democratic president. They can be happy with the idea of a Democratic presidentindeed, dancing-in-the-streets deliriousbut not with the real thing. The various theories of disconsolate liberals all suffer from a failure to compare Obama with any plausible baseline. Instead they compare Obama with an imaginary presidenteither an imaginary Obama or a fantasy version of a past president."

That sort of crap is so silly. Pop sociology at its worst.

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pasto76 Donating Member (835 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
19. "liberals" are turning out to be the worst enemy of democrats
I hear and see DAILY, mainly by posters on DU, things that are just false.

I would suggest that the moderator opinion at the bottom change from "liberal" cause to "progressive cause". Liberals are a faction of the left. They do not own it wholly. "Liberals", as demonstrated at least on DU, bears the characteristic of being very emotional in a response to anything.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Wow. So conservatives are now better friends than our own people?
:crazy:

NGU.

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Bodhi BloodWave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. How in the blazes did you get that from his post? nt
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. What does "worst enemy" mean to you?
NGU.

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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
21. I rec'd the other one and I'm recing this one too.
:thumbsup:
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
25. apologist BULLSHIT
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saras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
26. When the Democratic party moved substantially to the right of Richard Nixon.
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craigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
27. Liberals are reasonable. If anything they're too reasonable.
Just look at the OWS movement there are so many points of view that nothing gets done but everyone gets heard.
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