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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 05:57 PM
Original message
friendly advice for centrist Obama supporters
You are doing a piss poor job of convincing progressives to reelect Obama.

I believed you guys were actually Republican trolls until I heard the same words coming out of the mouths of top Obama aides and in only slightly milder form out of the mouths of the president and VP himself.

Does that persuade you and make you want to keep reading?

I didn't think so.

So why do you repeatedly insult the progressive majority of DU and other progressive sites, to try to keep them in the Obama tent?

I am not 100% pleased with Obama, but I will be voting for him again. Your efforts mostly make me feel like an idiot for doing so.

If you sincerely want to help Obama win reelection, here's some tips that might help you warm up the base.

Enough with the insults. You know what I'm talking about--calling anyone who criticizes Obama from the left ''far left'' (going as far as to say we are as bad as the far right), ''the professional left,'' ''hopeless idealists,'' and perhaps most aggravatingly ''Obama haters.'' That last one is just fucking lazy. You borrowed it from the Bush PR team.

Also, when you come to a discussion board, expect that people are going to criticize your guy as well as praise him. If you want undiluted praise, go to Obama's campaign website. If you come to a site like this expect to have to defend some of his actions and do so as if talking to your peers not your children.

Retire some of these talking points:
  • You don't understand the process--it requires compromise. Actually, we understand that perfectly well. What we don't understand is why the president we elected to pursue Democratic policies gives away half the pie before negotiations even start and then gives up even more to make a deal. That would make some kind of sense once Republicans took over the House, but Obama did this even when Democrats had majorities in both chambers. Either honestly explain why he did this or just leave it alone.

    Most of us also notice that this isn't the way the GOP negotiates, regardless of whether they hold the White House or either chamber of Congress. They start with proposals that are clearly conservative, excoriate the Democrats, and then grudgingly compromise at the end of negotiations (and sometimes not even then).

  • Obama has to be president of ALL Americans. Again, this one is an insult to our intelligence. We understand that he has to be president of ALL Americans, but we hold elections to decide what policies we want our president pursue. A solid majority of Americans thought they elected a Democratic president, not one who rarely mentions the name of his own party and blames it as much as the opposition that blocks everything and tries to destroy popular, effective programs, and not one who thinks every proposal has to include at least 50% Republican content. The Republicans certainly don't play that way when they take office, and even if they did, that would mean our vote would be meaningless since either party would do the same thing. With just the Democrats doing it, we essentially have a choice being 100% GOP policies or just 50% plus, which is barely a choice at all. So stow this shit.

  • Any Republican will be WORSE. progressives seem to know this better than you or Obama does. If they are so bad, stop agreeing with them and letting them set the agenda, as your points about process and bipartisanship prove.

  • Obama will be more progressive in his second term. Maybe FDR did that, but no president in my lifetime has. Bill Clinton was doing well to hold onto office and like Obama agreed with the GOP policies far too often. For good or ill, you have to run on what Obama has actually done (and not just the nice things he has said or will say during the campaign.


That brings me to the one thing you guys do well, the list of Obama's accomplishments. Even your presentation there has room for improvement though.

  • Edit the list for a progressive audience. The catfood commission, the Afghanistan surge, and certainly the recent debt ceiling deal are not things you want to brag about with a progressive audience.

  • Emphasize the radical and confrontational rather than incremental and bipartisan. So for example with health care reform, instead of talking about the market based exchanges and ''cost controls,'' the latter meaning controlling costs for insurance companies, talk about what the reform did to help the average American and bring insurance companies and big pharma to heel.

  • Give it to people in chunks instead of the big dump. Focus especially on progressive moves that aren't getting a lot of MSM coverage, like working to get Medicare Part D to negotiate drug prices.


There are a couple of points that you also avoid mentioning, like why Obama started with an economic team that included so many of the architects of our financial collapse, and why he lets firms like Goldman Sachs pick their regulators instead of picking their cellmates in the Federal pen.

Another area where you need to address progressive concerns is K-12 education. I'm glad Obama gave schools money to keep them from laying off teachers, but a lot of us who care about kids have trouble trusting him on this issue when he hired an education secretary who right wingers praise for his union-busting, mass firing of teachers, emphasis on repetitive standardized testing and privatized charter schools, all ''reforms'' backed by billionaire dilettantes rather than trained educators.

The problem with Obama's approach to Wall St, education, trade, and other aspects of foreign policy is that it is top down rather than bottom up--he appears to talk to almost exclusively the wealthy and largely does what they ask, rather than looking at the wishes of average Americans, who would like to see Wall Street subject to the rule of law and suffer the same kind of consequences a middle class or poor person would if they intentionally caused as much damage, and would like to have safe public schools that borrow the best practices of private schools, rather than privatizing public schools so our tax dollars can be siphoned off in profits and teachers treated like interchangeable burger flippers.

You must address these concerns if you want to get progressives in the tent, and address them in the way that Bruno Bettelheim laid out in his essay ''The Victim.'' He told about how as a concentration camp inmate he needed to get an SS guard's approval to get medical treatment for frostbite. He had to make his case to someone who had no sympathy, all the power, and a gun. So far, you guys have been arguing more like the guard than the inmate.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. obama supporters are more like SS guards... than concentration camps inmates. hoo kay.
Edited on Wed Sep-07-11 06:04 PM by dionysus
you might have had some valid points, but they get lost in the condescension sprinkled thoughout.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. it's an analogy. And frankly, the condescension is far lighter than the DLCers use here
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
32. You're insulting. Secondly---I don't think you know what it means to support a progressive agenda.
I consider myself to support progressive initiatives and I support the president 100%.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. Yeah, you'd never, ever be condescending to others Dio.
Anyone who reads DU knows you are always respectful to others and especially elegant in your communications with those you with whom you are not in full agreement.
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #22
34. Has he ever likened anyone here to Nazi guards?
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. read that essay sometime. It's more about how to persaude people than Nazis per se
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. Recommend
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orpupilofnature57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. I too will vote to re-elect ,but that is not the Priority of a Democrat ,thats why
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. good post, but I'm not sure that's the Democratic Party we have anymore.
Edited on Wed Sep-07-11 06:33 PM by yurbud
the leadership of the party seems to have decided to be the Alan Colmes to the GOP's Sean Hannity.
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orpupilofnature57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. Their continuity is our demise ,and They know it.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. Rahm Emanuel was right. n/t
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
5. Net recommendation: +3 votes (Your vote: +1)
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
6. Any "friendly" advice for those leftist Obama non-supporters?
Edited on Wed Sep-07-11 06:09 PM by DCBob
here's one... get with the program knuckleheads or we are fucked.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. I agree. The problem is, Obama's centrist supporters are leaning hard on insults and fear
with their supporters, and it doesn't match the way Obama has governed.

If the GOP is so nasty and evil, he should have figured out every conceivable way to work around them, forced the ''centrists'' Dems in the Senate to move away from conservative positions, rallied the public behind him from the bully pulpit, and dared the GOP to undo what he did--sort of like Bush did in the opposite direction, only Obama didn't need to go as far as breaking the law.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. "Obama's centrist supporters "
Repeating that doesn't make you a progressive. In fact, this from the OP:

That brings me to the one thing you guys do well, the list of Obama's accomplishments. Even your presentation there has room for improvement though.

  • Edit the list for a progressive audience. The catfood commission, the Afghanistan surge, and certainly the recent debt ceiling deal are not things you want to brag about with a progressive audience.

  • Emphasize the radical and confrontational rather than incremental and bipartisan. So for example with health care reform, instead of talking about the market based exchanges and ''cost controls,'' the latter meaning controlling costs for insurance companies, talk about what the reform did to help the average American and bring insurance companies and big pharma to heel.

  • Give it to people in chunks instead of the big dump. Focus especially on progressive moves that aren't getting a lot of MSM coverage, like working to get Medicare Part D to negotiate drug prices.

...smacks of authoritarianism and fascism.


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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
37. that stuff in communication 101: know your audience
and a laundry list of different items is going to make someone's eyes glaze over unless they are a policy wonk.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. I wouldnt try to emulate anything Bush did.
Edited on Wed Sep-07-11 06:40 PM by DCBob
Obama still wants to be the peacemaker, uniter and transformational President this country so desperately needs. Of course its clearly not working.. so far.. but I doubt he will ever give up on that goal because I think he sees that as probably the most important thing he can do to improve this nation's future.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
27. Yeah, they're idiots just like the group mentioned in the OP.
NGU.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. These posts
Edited on Wed Sep-07-11 06:13 PM by ProSense
"friendly advice for centrist Obama supporters

You are doing a piss poor job of convincing progressives to reelect Obama.

I believed you guys were actually Republican trolls until I heard the same words coming out of the mouths of top Obama aides and in only slightly milder form out of the mouths of the president and VP himself.

Does that persuade you and make you want to keep reading?

I didn't think so.

So why do you repeatedly insult the progressive majority of DU and other progressive sites, to try to keep them in the Obama tent?"


...are beginning to reflect a victimhood complex and the need to attack strawmen to deal with one's own insecurity.

"Edit the list for a progressive audience. The catfood commission, the Afghanistan surge, and certainly the recent debt ceiling deal are not things you want to brag about with a progressive audience."

"Catfood commission" failed to produce a report, and that was eight months ago.

"The Afghanistan surge" is a problem with being unaware of The Obama-Biden Plan:

Afghanistan and Pakistan

  • Afghanistan: Obama and Biden will refocus American resources on the greatest threat to our security -- the resurgence of al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan. They will increase our troop levels in Afghanistan, press our allies in NATO to do the same, and dedicate more resources to revitalize Afghanistans economic development. Obama and Biden will demand the Afghan government do more, including cracking down on corruption and the illicit opium trade.
  • Pakistan: Obama and Biden will increase nonmilitary aid to Pakistan and hold them accountable for security in the border region with Afghanistan.

Accomplishments, ending wars:

- In June 2009, U.S. Forces occupied 357 bases. U.S. Forces currently occupy 121 bases, and are expected to reduce that number to 94 bases by the end of August.

link


Operation New Dawn began with 94 military sites in Iraq, in September 2010. Today, that's down to 48 sites. Seven more sites will shut down in August, Richardson said.

more


On June 22, 2011 the President addressed the American people about the way forward in Afghanistan. We have made substantial progress on the objectives the President laid out at West Point in 2009, and he made clear that we will begin the drawdown of U.S. troops from a position of strength. We have exceeded our expectations on our core goal of defeating al-Qaida killing 20 of its top 30 leaders, including Osama bin Laden. We have broken the Talibans momentum, and trained over 100,000 Afghan National Security Forces. The U.S. will withdraw 10,000 U.S. troops from Afghanistan by the end of 2011, and the 33,000 surge troops he approved in December 2009 will leave Afghanistan by the end of summer 2012.

link


"You must address these concerns if you want to get progressives in the tent, and address them in the way that Bruno Bettelheim laid out in his essay ''The Victim.'' He told about how as a concentration camp inmate he needed to get an SS guard's approval to get medical treatment for frostbite. He had to make his case to someone who had no sympathy, all the power, and a gun. So far, you guys have been arguing more like the guard than the inmate."

Who is you? Why do you believe it's someone else's responsiblity to get you to do the right thing or your thing?

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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
8. Enjoyed your post. However I doubt there are many "Centrist Dems" at DU
Most people here are on the left. Other than the paid trolls.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Funny you should mention that. I did a poll here a few years ago:
86% were progressive Democrats or further left, 11% were moderate or DLC (only 2% claimed the DLC label).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
9. Nice post, yurbud. Let's pray it doesn't fall on deaf ears.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
29. I think it's pretty clear it will, but I just wanted to put it out there.
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rury Donating Member (629 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
10. For starters, cut the absolute crap about "he had Democratic
Majorities!"
Many of those "Democrats" were conservatives and that is who President Obama was compromising with over imperfect, but PROGRESSIVE legislation that was passed.
The Republicans were against ANYTHING he wanted, so there was no need to deal with them at all.
Blue Dogs in the House and conservative Democratic senators were the obstacles.
He NEVER had all of the Democrats on his side.
That has been explained a million times, but people who are determined to bash Obama ignore that, because nothing this black man does is good enough for them.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. What did he do to squeeze blue dogs instead of just placate them?
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NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. He had his right-hand man go out and
call them "Fucking Retarded". Oh wait.... :freak:
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orpupilofnature57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. He should have for solidarity sake.
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Oh, wait...that NEVER HAPPENED.
Show me the quote, put up or shut up.

Rahm Emanuel NEVER called ANYONE "fucking retarded".


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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. I hope you're being ironic instead of just lying LINK
From the Wall Street Journal:

The friction was laid bare in August when Mr. Emanuel showed up at a weekly strategy session featuring liberal groups and White House aides. Some attendees said they were planning to air ads attacking conservative Democrats who were balking at Mr. Obama's health-care overhaul.

"Fing retarded," Mr. Emanuel scolded the group, according to several participants. He warned them not to alienate lawmakers whose votes would be needed on health care and other top legislative items.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703808904...


people here do actually look things like that up you know.
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. No, he called the idea of waging an attack ad campaign against fellow Democrats "fucking retarded"
Edited on Wed Sep-07-11 06:49 PM by tritsofme
Which it was.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. a conservative Democrat is not a Democrat
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. Perhaps he should have?
At least then we could have something other than disingenuous outrage over a fake quote.
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orpupilofnature57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Excuses or pointing out his color ,will not get him re-elected ,Alibi's
will not do.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. those excuses would carry more weight if he got behind progressive candidates instead of
centrist ones.

I'm intentionally using ''centrist'' since that seems to be what they like to call themselves.
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orpupilofnature57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. No Doubt ,He looks more like a Bet hedger , a Coach.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
33. Why do those who are so mad at Obama keep trying to
convince us to ditch him, too?

We're totally aware of the things he's done that MOST of us don't like, yet for some reason we're reminded of them repeatedly. No education there, just badgering.

Neither side is going to convince the other, and no plea from one side will silence or edit the others.

And I'm not a moderate - I'm a liberal but still supporting him (I won't bore you with the reasons) so I don't know what you'd like to tell me to do.

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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Why do those who think Obama can do no wrong keep trying to divide his supporters?
Edited on Wed Sep-07-11 06:54 PM by ClassWarrior
:shrug:

NGU.

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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. you just summed that up nicely.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #33
40. I'm not trying to convince anyone to dump him--just the opposite
his supporters are like an annoying person who tells you do what you were going to do anyway but does it in such a way that they make you not want to do it.
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
38. And I am up to my eyebrows with the condescending crap about Obamabots
or cultists or now Nazi guards... really

You will vote for ever who you want to vote for.. no one is here to convince others who to vote for.. oh I will rail against people who say they are not going to vote.. I just detest to my very being,..people who refuse to vote.. even if it is a write in or pick and choose on the ballot..

I am sick and tired of the people feeling they are victims if someone says they are supporting the Democrats and Obama.

If you have a specific beef with a poster, take it up with them.. and stop addressing all Obama supporters as centrist trolls

So as "you guys" see that road is going both ways..
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
41. Locking
After discussion, we have concluded you could make your salient points without calling out and attacking other members
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